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Posted: 09 Sep 2005, 04:16
by nickd
states wrote:
boxingchat wrote:
jamesmcdonnell wrote: Hmm, I seem to recall Warren having a rather unpleasant experience in court when Don King took him for 12 million.

Bringing a case is one thing, winning it another.
Get your facts right and do your research. Warren settled King did not take him, as in win any case. Still, granted, $12M is $12M I suppose. Still I suppose if you had been around longer than five minutes you would have known that.
For fucks sake mate, give it a rest. End of the day, Don got 12 million from Frank. Hence the phrase 'Don King took him for 12 million'. And, as we stand, Frank has brought a case against the Hatton's. He hasn't won one yet. Hence the phrase 'Bringing a case is one thing, winning it another'. Seriously, this shit is tired. Obviously none of us here know all the facts, because neither allegedly allegedly nor the Hatton family phone us and tell us the details, so we speculate. We all know it's speculation, so unless you're prepared to tell us all the facts and put us all in the right, could you stop saying we're all talking bullshit when some of us happen to disagree with you? It's not like you've given anyone any proof that your opinion is total, 100% fact, is it?
Bingo.

Posted: 12 Sep 2005, 06:02
by G-man
Boxing: allegedly- Can He Be Taken Seriously?

By Terence Dooley - Sept. 12, 2005


So in my last piece I poured cold water scepticism all over the notion that Ricky Hatton may be involved in a big fight in the foreseeable future yet ironically the realization of this statement is not, as I once thought, because Hatton is wrapped in cotton wool. On the contrary since Hatton busted his way out of his cotton wool confines versus Kostya Tszyu Hatton seems to have said to himself: “Yes. Yes! I do like this competitive fight situation, what was Warren doing all these years?” Subsequently Hatton has seemingly decided that he wants to end his association with Warren and pursue other promotional options so that he may finally get to showcase his by now undoubted talent in the States. That would be all well and good if it were not for this plantation mentality that boxing promoters have and by virtue of free lunch buffets as well as complimentary tickets are spreading, or long ago spread, to the sports media. Allow me to explain myself.

It seems, in his own words taken from his column in a notoriously crass British Tabloid (and that says a lot), that allegedly thought it would be proper to tie Ricky Hatton up to a three fight deal by sending him a recorded letter through the post, Britain being Britain he is lucky the letter ever arrived let alone got bindingly read. Now it would seem silly not to actually get your lawyer to sit down with all parties concerned to draft an agreement for a three fight deal, but then we are used to seeing such silly things happen in boxing. Talk may be made of “Gentlemen’s Agreement”, but is there really scope for such a thing anymore in boxing on both sides of the fence? If a deal was struck, but not legally formalized and Ricky got badly injured in his first fight would Frank stand by his man or get a divorce? It is an academic question, but what we do know is that it appears Ricky is ready to ditch Warren, that is not a rave review of the Warren style in my opinion and Ricky has a right to take his labor elsewhere if he feels his so-called employer (it rankles me as surely the boxer employs the promoter? Who is making the money happen? I rest my case.) is not good enough to get him a glory fight. Warren now seems to be insinuating career ruin for a fighter who strays from the path of Right and Warr(o)ren(g) by bringing Ricky into line with the name Naseem Hamed. The comparison being that Naseem was taken far by Frank then floundered on his own, in reality Naseem’s talent took Warren far into un-chartered territory (The USA) then decided it could do well enough for itself, that is fair enough. Figures like Warren seem to find it impossible to abandon a draconian approach to fighters and take delight in dragging fighters through the courts over contracts and tie-in deals whereas many of the fighters just want to fight, crazy guys those fighters, anyone and on any network. Men like Warren claim to be making the fights, but they make only a small percentage of the available fights and block a huge amount of bouts from ever taking place, the Junior Middleweight division Warren ruined in Britain immediately springs to mind.

I can’t speak fully of the facts just yet, but it appears that Hatton thinks he can manage his own career or at least be guided fight by fight by American promoters and many would say all power to him. On the other hand Warren claims he made Ricky and should own him lock, stock and barrel, but does he own Ricky or is he completely reliant on the talent of Ricky? Boxing promoters would like to think they are the Gods of boxing, but they are really the handmaids of the fighters and Ricky is striking a blow for this new way of thinking by telling Warren he has had enough Vilches and making do fights to last him a boxing lifetime (38 bouts give or Tackie), the simple fact is he does not believe in Warren. Warren claims to be supportive of Ricky and his career often paying paternal lip service to his fighters, but is now seemingly gleefully about to put a halt on Hatton’s career by dragging him through court. Like a child throwing his toys out of the crib in a fit of rage Warren, the self-confessed master career manager, cannot seem to accept that Ricky has no confidence in him and wants to make the fighter work under duress. If this was normal employment law and one felt they worked for a useless company one could up stakes, but unfortunately in the eyes of many laws the boxer is a chattel to the whims of promoters that love them, hate them then ultimately discard them. Still at least the press will be behind Ricky, or maybe this is where things get more sinister.

As soon as Warren issued his Papal proclamation through the rag he writes for the Chief Sports Editor mentioned boxing in his column which in itself is a rarity and guess what? A month ago Hatton was the man of the people, a working-class hero and example to everyone, now he is being denounced as a spoilt boxer and an example of a man being twisted by success. Expect more columns like this springing up in the UK as it seems that boxing journalism is no longer about honest opinion, but making sure you have your name down for that pre-fight buffet and decent ringside seats. Cynical? Outrageous slur? Boxing News once criticized Warren and he reacted by banning them from his shows, fast forward a few shows the criticism was rescinded and my own subscription to this cornerstone of British boxing cancelled. It seems that the promoter wields the power, but those with sharp minds and good memories can see the charade for what it is. Oliver Holt a Chief Editor of a British tabloid used his column once, or should I say fairly regularly, to criticize a non-Warren fighter who pretty much started to get the treatment the moment he turned pro. The fighter in question had his fourth pro fight versus Julius Long (who recently gave the hyped Nicolay Popov his twelfth pro fight) on the same night a talented young junior middle was taking yet another making time fight whilst waiting for bigger things. Audley Harrison won by TKO, but for Gary Lockett a TKO loss was forthcoming at the hands of Yuri Tsarenko who then went back home to Belarus to fight a bunch of debutants. Guess what pearls of wisdom appeared in the press the following Tuesday? That Harrison was a disgrace and Lockett a hero for being brave and losing brutally whilst Harrison won easily, in reality Harrison was not a disgrace, but the promoter of Lockett and his manager should shoulder the blame as since that night the kid has seemed jaded and his last six opponents have lost a total of fifty-five fights. Lockett is promoted/managed by allegedly and is now at middle after not getting tough, learning curve fights against his local rivals as Warren greedily was waiting for them all to become stars so he could make more money. Maybe it’s a coincidence, but the pro-Warren bias is there and it is interesting to see the reaction to Ricky standing up for his rights as a fighter. Harrison allegedly turned Warren down on turning pro and was attacked in the press from the get-go, another case where it seems Warren had problems with a “Difficult” (i.e.: Intelligent and gregarious) fighter.

In boxing the BS piles up so quickly that you need wings to take it all in, but the facts seem to suggest that a linear Champion is about to have his biggest fight in a court room and at the same time will have some mileage stripped from his career. Warren needs to accept that he did well with Ricky eventually and let Ricky move on whilst he builds up Amir Khan, I won’t hold my breath though. Take Ricky out of the Junior Welterweight equation though unless sanity prevails and someone points out that it is the boxer that owns the promoter not vice versa, without the fighters promoters would be peddling snooker or darts rather than having the gift of being involved in this great sport. I personally hope Ricky wins this fight and it finally hits home to the promoters that they are incidentals. A final thought is that memorable incident after Ricky had beaten Carlos Vilches, but seemed subdued during his interview and was then asked if he was tiring of Warren being unable to deliver a big title match, Warren grabbed the mic then berated the interviewer as Hatton looked on, Ricky never got to answer the question, until now.

http://www.ringsidereport.com/Dooley09122005.htm

Posted: 12 Sep 2005, 06:23
by jamesmcdonnell
boxingchat wrote:
jamesmcdonnell wrote:
silkov wrote:I can't see Warren going to all this trouble if he didn't think he could get a result in the courts. Remember Warren is an old hand at this sort of thing.
And Ricky certainly hasn't broken from Warren so he can get the big fights has he?... Maussa is just a tough club fighter! :roll: :roll: :roll: ...and Sheffeild is hardly Lasvegas or Madison Square Garden is it???. And all this from a guy who only has another 3 fights left in him? :x .
Hmm, I seem to recall Warren having a rather unpleasant experience in court when Don King took him for 12 million.

Bringing a case is one thing, winning it another.
Get your facts right and do your research. Warren settled King did not take him, as in win any case. Still, granted, $12M is $12M I suppose. Still I suppose if you had been around longer than five minutes you would have known that.
Who do you think you're talking to mate, some fornicating teenager? Fact is Don King came out very much on top, it wasn't him handing over money, and as KO pointed out, it was a counterclaim which followed an action by Warren.

I think subsequent events, such as signing M'Baye show how watertight the agreement must be.

Get over yourself.