BoxRec

Hahaha, Thomas beat him fair and square. I thought the championing of Ruddock was preposterous but now Coatzee??? Even if he did beat Snipes (and he didn't b/c there were no 10-8 rounds in the scoring of that fight), he's now a top 20 HW of all time?? 3rd best white HW?

Same Dokes as vs Holyfield??? . . .you forgot the major difference-DRUGS!

Max Baer
Ed Gunboat Smith
Bill Brennan
Fred Fulton
Jim Jefferies
Jack Sharkey
Max Schmeling
Tommy Farr
George Chuvalo
Rocky friggin' Marciano

There are dozens upon dozens, if not over a hundred, of white HWs who would've embarassed Coatzee.

dempseyfire wrote:Hahaha, Thomas beat him fair and square. I thought the championing of Ruddock was preposterous but now Coatzee??? Even if he did beat Snipes (and he didn't b/c there were no 10-8 rounds in the scoring of that fight), he's now a top 20 HW of all time?? 3rd best white HW?

Same Dokes as vs Holyfield??? . . .you forgot the major difference-DRUGS!

Max Baer
Ed Gunboat Smith
Bill Brennan
Fred Fulton
Jim Jefferies
Jack Sharkey
Max Schmeling
Tommy Farr
George Chuvalo
Rocky friggin' Marciano

There are dozens upon dozens, if not over a hundred, of white HWs who would've embarassed Coatzee.

Coetzee beat Thomas comfortably but it was ruled a draw. Pinklon only did good in the last 3 rounds where he cut Coetzee and had him in minor trouble. Thomas did nothing in that fight except the last 3 rounds so this decision is almost just as disgraceful as the Snipes fight.

As for your list, I on purposely left out Marciano because he isnt a great fighter, good fighter yes but great not a chance. Marciano struggled badly with old Walcott + Charles and beat an old Joe Louis. Moore also floored him where a year later a green Patterson knocked Moore out.

So the only good fighter Marciano beat was maybe Matthews.

RazorKO wrote:

dempseyfire wrote:Hahaha, Thomas beat him fair and square. I thought the championing of Ruddock was preposterous but now Coatzee??? Even if he did beat Snipes (and he didn't b/c there were no 10-8 rounds in the scoring of that fight), he's now a top 20 HW of all time?? 3rd best white HW?

Same Dokes as vs Holyfield??? . . .you forgot the major difference-DRUGS!

Max Baer
Ed Gunboat Smith
Bill Brennan
Fred Fulton
Jim Jefferies
Jack Sharkey
Max Schmeling
Tommy Farr
George Chuvalo
Rocky friggin' Marciano

There are dozens upon dozens, if not over a hundred, of white HWs who would've embarassed Coatzee.

Coetzee beat Thomas comfortably but it was ruled a draw. Pinklon only did good in the last 3 rounds where he cut Coetzee and had him in minor trouble. Thomas did nothing in that fight except the last 3 rounds so this decision is almost just as disgraceful as the Snipes fight.

As for your list, I on purposely left out Marciano because he isnt a great fighter, good fighter yes but great not a chance. Marciano struggled badly with old Walcott + Charles and beat an old Joe Louis. Moore also floored him where a year later a green Patterson knocked Moore out.

So the only good fighter Marciano beat was maybe Matthews.

A "good" Marciano still KO's Coetzee. In the best possible scenario for Coetzee, Coetzee builds an early lead but gasses out late in the fight, and Marciano turns up the pressure to KO Coetzee in round 13. The more likely outcome is Marciano KO 7.

RazorKO wrote:

dempseyfire wrote:Hahaha, Thomas beat him fair and square. I thought the championing of Ruddock was preposterous but now Coatzee??? Even if he did beat Snipes (and he didn't b/c there were no 10-8 rounds in the scoring of that fight), he's now a top 20 HW of all time?? 3rd best white HW?

Same Dokes as vs Holyfield??? . . .you forgot the major difference-DRUGS!

Max Baer
Ed Gunboat Smith
Bill Brennan
Fred Fulton
Jim Jefferies
Jack Sharkey
Max Schmeling
Tommy Farr
George Chuvalo
Rocky friggin' Marciano

There are dozens upon dozens, if not over a hundred, of white HWs who would've embarassed Coatzee.

Coetzee beat Thomas comfortably but it was ruled a draw. Pinklon only did good in the last 3 rounds where he cut Coetzee and had him in minor trouble. Thomas did nothing in that fight except the last 3 rounds so this decision is almost just as disgraceful as the Snipes fight.

As for your list, I on purposely left out Marciano because he isnt a great fighter, good fighter yes but great not a chance. Marciano struggled badly with old Walcott + Charles and beat an old Joe Louis. Moore also floored him where a year later a green Patterson knocked Moore out.

So the only good fighter Marciano beat was maybe Matthews.

wow thats a hunk of bullshit if i ever seen one.


marciano beat the following fighters who were all better than coetzee

archie moore
jersey joe walcott
ezzard charles
roland lastarza
old joe louis - yes, i would even pick the 1951 version of louis to possibly beat gerrie coetzee.


all the versions of moore, walcott, charles marciano beat would handily beat coerzee




gerrie coetzee better than rocky marciano?

So the only good fighter Marciano beat was maybe Matthews.

you see razorko, this is why nobody takes u seriosely. you think the best fighter marciano beat was harry kid mathews.

Decagon wrote:Did he do the same thing after he raped Desiree Washington?

Bruno, Buster Mathis Jr, Clifford Etienne, Botha, Seldon. He helped all these fighters up and showed compassion to each one after the fight was over. Ill also count Lewis as Tyson as I said wiped the blood of his face and embraced him.

Caulk Rocket wrote:

Syntax Error wrote:

Caulk Rocket wrote: McBride didn't even beat Tyson. Stop acting like he dropped Mike. Tyson was ahead on the cards. John Ruiz sucks, Chris Byrd is a total wimp. If it took a prime Lewis 8 rounds to beat Tyson, Byrd nor Ruiz could have even edged a decision, much less a KO. The only exception is James Toney, who may have won a decision, but never a KO against the elder Tyson.

As for Lewis's losses, he lost in his prime. He was also PUT TO SLEEP, KTFO'D. Not once, but twice. Not just twice, early in both fights. Tyson nor Holyfield were ever laid flat that bad, especially by chumps.

Lewis was not in his prime when he beat Tyson. He was 36 & even older than Tyson.

He was just a better fighter who was able to compete effectively after his prime years.

He could have KO'd Tyson in 3-4 rounds had he not been so cautious that night.

Lewis was a late bloomer, who also had a longer prime than Tyson. Early in his career, he fought people Tyson already destroyed. He had a glass jaw, unlike Tyson and Holyfield. He was just too big for anyone to exploit, or he fought has beens.

Saying he could have KO'd Tyson earlier is just more speculation. I could add to that speculation that Vitali was dominating Lewis, and he got really lucky, but I don't.

You're right about me speculating that Lewis could have KO'd Tyson earlier, but I really think he carried Tyson that night; through his extreme caution.

Steward was cursing Lewis before round 5 for not finishing the job.

He knocked Tyson down in the 3rd (or was it 4th ) & Tyson was totally spent at that point. Eddie Cotton ruled that Lewis had pushed Tyson & deducted a point.

I believe that had Lewis shown more devil at that point, he could have forced a stoppage, but he remained cautious.

Decagon wrote:Did he wipe the blood off of Washington's person after raping her, and then give her a hug?

Washington's person? I dont understand what you mean.

But I listed the fighters after he was released from prison that he helped up and showed his true personality.

BrocktonBlockbuster49 wrote:

RazorKO wrote:

dempseyfire wrote:Hahaha, Thomas beat him fair and square. I thought the championing of Ruddock was preposterous but now Coatzee??? Even if he did beat Snipes (and he didn't b/c there were no 10-8 rounds in the scoring of that fight), he's now a top 20 HW of all time?? 3rd best white HW?

Same Dokes as vs Holyfield??? . . .you forgot the major difference-DRUGS!

Max Baer
Ed Gunboat Smith
Bill Brennan
Fred Fulton
Jim Jefferies
Jack Sharkey
Max Schmeling
Tommy Farr
George Chuvalo
Rocky friggin' Marciano

There are dozens upon dozens, if not over a hundred, of white HWs who would've embarassed Coatzee.

Coetzee beat Thomas comfortably but it was ruled a draw. Pinklon only did good in the last 3 rounds where he cut Coetzee and had him in minor trouble. Thomas did nothing in that fight except the last 3 rounds so this decision is almost just as disgraceful as the Snipes fight.

As for your list, I on purposely left out Marciano because he isnt a great fighter, good fighter yes but great not a chance. Marciano struggled badly with old Walcott + Charles and beat an old Joe Louis. Moore also floored him where a year later a green Patterson knocked Moore out.

So the only good fighter Marciano beat was maybe Matthews.

wow thats a hunk of bullshit if i ever seen one.


marciano beat the following fighters who were all better than coetzee

archie moore
jersey joe walcott
ezzard charles
roland lastarza
old joe louis - yes, i would even pick the 1951 version of louis to possibly beat gerrie coetzee.


all the versions of moore, walcott, charles marciano beat would handily beat coerzee




gerrie coetzee better than rocky marciano?

The fighters you all listed are old, out of their prime and therefore of no importance. Lastarza and Matthews were god wins, but thats it.

Im not saying Coetzee will definetly beat Marciano but Coetzee was far more gifted than Rocky could ever dream of being. Marciano would probably win this fight 3/5, but Rocky will have better be very prepared for a long fight that will tire him out. But dont forget Coetzee has the power to KO Marciano and Coetzee has in his own right a very granite chin.

I wouldn't say its bullshit, its his opinion which he's entitled to, just as you're entitled to yours Brock... personally I wouldn't rate Lastarza over Coetzee and Gerries power would trouble both Walcott and Charles... Coetzee had his flaws but he had a very good chin, good power and fast hands and would certainly fit into the heavyweight top 15... I could see him beating Lewis and a number of other top 15 heavies........ you tend to vastly overrate the heavies of Marcianos era while underrating those of the 70s and 80s who were by and large vastly more talented than those of the 50s....

RazorKO wrote:

Decagon wrote:Did he do the same thing after he raped Desiree Washington?

Bruno, Buster Mathis Jr, Clifford Etienne, Botha, Seldon. He helped all these fighters up and showed compassion to each one after the fight was over. Ill also count Lewis as Tyson as I said wiped the blood of his face and embraced him.

Tyson was copying Dempsey who is of course Mike's hero. Mike wanted to cement the lineage between himself and his idol.

I ahve to say I do ike the fact that Tyson respected the old fighters and was so knowledgeable about them. From a fan point of view I also liked the fact that he wore the old style boxing footwear and amrketed himself as a return to the golden era.

quote]

You're right about me speculating that Lewis could have KO'd Tyson earlier, but I really think he carried Tyson that night; through his extreme caution.

Steward was cursing Lewis before round 5 for not finishing the job.

He knocked Tyson down in the 3rd (or was it 4th ) & Tyson was totally spent at that point. Eddie Cotton ruled that Lewis had pushed Tyson & deducted a point.

I believe that had Lewis shown more devil at that point, he could have forced a stoppage, but he remained cautious.[/quote]


THis is something I've said before the raw Lewis before Manny took over was more explosive and took more chances. The Lewis that KOed Ruddock would have KOed Tyson inside 4.

RazorKo we may have our differences but you rate Coetzer in the top 20 HW of all, don't rate Marciano, defend Tyson's rape conviction with opinion best suited to an actual rapist and say Lewis clinched over 1000 times in an 8 rd fight. How can you even take yourself seriuosly cos no-one else can!

silkov wrote:I wouldn't say its bullshit, its his opinion which he's entitled to, just as you're entitled to yours Brock... personally I wouldn't rate Lastarza over Coetzee and Gerries power would trouble both Walcott and Charles... Coetzee had his flaws but he had a very good chin, good power and fast hands and would certainly fit into the heavyweight top 15... I could see him beating Lewis and a number of other top 15 heavies........ you tend to vastly overrate the heavies of Marcianos era while underrating those of the 70s and 80s who were by and large vastly more talented than those of the 50s....

Thank you Mr Silkov

I also could see Coetzee beating Lewis, though of course Holmes, Ali, Frazier all outclass Coetzee easily. But Gerrie as you say still has a chance against the top 15.

RazorKo we may have our differences but you rate Coetzer in the top 20 HW of all, don't rate Marciano, defend Tyson's rape conviction with opinion best suited to an actual rapist and say Lewis clinched over 1000 times in an 8 rd fight. How can you even take yourself seriuosly cos no-one else can!

Coetzee is a skilled heavyweight, Marciano however is just a crude slugger who was very lucky to be in a poor era - friendly,polite man outside of the ring but inside he doesnt impress me.

As for the Tyson case they were not opinions but facts which I copied and pasted from Amazon. But the thread is locked so its in the past now.

Lewis clinched over 1000 times in an 8 rd fight. How can you even take yourself seriuosly cos no-one else can!

Well I got that from another messageboard and the poster is probably exaggerting.....but Lewis did clinch more times than Ruiz does in a typical Ruiz 12 round fight. Lewis is also another fighter who is very overated, I remember watching Bruno fight Lewis and Bruno's slow mechanical jab was outboxing Lewis for the full 7 rounds, so Lewis had to use an illegal move by putting his glove on Bruno's face to blind his vision and then used his uppercut to stop him. Lewis should of had points deducted for that disgraceful move. Marciano who I dont think highly off in terms of skill would of made sure Lewis would be tasting hospital food for a couple of months.

As allegedly rightly said when talking about Lennox Lewis 'Great fighters just dont get knocked out by the likes of McCall and Rahman'. A quote I completly agree with.

silkov wrote:I wouldn't say its bullshit, its his opinion which he's entitled to, just as you're entitled to yours Brock... personally I wouldn't rate Lastarza over Coetzee and Gerries power would trouble both Walcott and Charles... Coetzee had his flaws but he had a very good chin, good power and fast hands and would certainly fit into the heavyweight top 15... I could see him beating Lewis and a number of other top 15 heavies........ you tend to vastly overrate the heavies of Marcianos era while underrating those of the 70s and 80s who were by and large vastly more talented than those of the 50s....

which heavies do i overate of the 50s? i dont even have lastarza in my top 50. i rate most of the 70s heavyweights very high.

i cant believe ur sticking up for this fool when hes claiming coetzee would beat rocky marciano and lennox lewis. u rate rocky marciano 10th for crying out loud. u really thing he would beat the rock? wut about joe frazier? or jack dempsey?


i think its u who vastly overates the heavyweights of the 1980s. you think this was the 2nd best group outside of the 1970s which is far from the truth.

The fighters you all listed are old, out of their prime and therefore of no importance. Lastarza and Matthews were god wins, but thats it.

are u kidding me? does anyone else believe this bullshit?

BrocktonBlockbuster49 wrote:

The fighters you all listed are old, out of their prime and therefore of no importance. Lastarza and Matthews were god wins, but thats it.

are u kidding me? does anyone else believe this bullshit?

Not me. While most of his major wins were over "old, out of their prime" fighters, they were certainly of importance. Charles and Walcott, while not at their best, still were very dangerous as evidenced by the fighters they beat before fighting Marciano. Louis had put on a credible eight or so win streak before getting KO'd by Rocky. Moore, while I say was past his physical peak and not a heavyweight, went on to defend his light heavyweight title for a long time afterwards. LaStarza and Matthews were solid wins over two solid pros. LaStarza was a legitimate top rated heavyweight at the time and Matthews had about 62 KOs inside 96 wins going in or something like that. Don Cockell I think was a pretty weak challenger, though, but he had a granite chin.

evndrbsn wrote:

BrocktonBlockbuster49 wrote:

The fighters you all listed are old, out of their prime and therefore of no importance. Lastarza and Matthews were god wins, but thats it.

are u kidding me? does anyone else believe this bullshit?

Not me. While most of his major wins were over "old, out of their prime" fighters, they were certainly of importance. Charles and Walcott, while not at their best, still were very dangerous as evidenced by the fighters they beat before fighting Marciano. Louis had put on a credible eight or so win streak before getting KO'd by Rocky. Moore, while I say was past his physical peak and not a heavyweight, went on to defend his light heavyweight title for a long time afterwards. LaStarza and Matthews were solid wins over two solid pros. LaStarza was a legitimate top rated heavyweight at the time and Matthews had about 62 KOs inside 96 wins going in or something like that. Don Cockell I think was a pretty weak challenger, though, but he had a granite chin.

- archie moore was in his heavyweight prime, remember he had a long heavyweight career starting in 1951 and ending in 1962.

- i think walcott was at his best defintley. he just beat charles 4 months prior.


walcott, charles, moore were all still great fighters when they fought rocky, much better than any other opponent marciano beat including harry kid mathews.


u really think harry kid mathews would beat jersey joe walcott, ezzard charles, archie moore of the first marciano fights?


evsrbn, dont forget rex layne. he was one of the best fighters rocky ever beat.


if i rate the following best 6 guys rocky beat this is how it goes.....

1. jersey joe walcott 1st marciano fight 1952
2. ezzard charles 1st marciano fight 1954
3. archie mooore 1955
4. joe louis 1951
5. roland lastarza 1950
6. rex layne 1951


thats a good resume

bottom line, "old past there prime or not" moore charles walcott were the 3 best fighters rocky ever beat. can everyone agree on that?

BrocktonBlockbuster49 wrote:

evndrbsn wrote:

BrocktonBlockbuster49 wrote: are u kidding me? does anyone else believe this bullshit?

Not me. While most of his major wins were over "old, out of their prime" fighters, they were certainly of importance. Charles and Walcott, while not at their best, still were very dangerous as evidenced by the fighters they beat before fighting Marciano. Louis had put on a credible eight or so win streak before getting KO'd by Rocky. Moore, while I say was past his physical peak and not a heavyweight, went on to defend his light heavyweight title for a long time afterwards. LaStarza and Matthews were solid wins over two solid pros. LaStarza was a legitimate top rated heavyweight at the time and Matthews had about 62 KOs inside 96 wins going in or something like that. Don Cockell I think was a pretty weak challenger, though, but he had a granite chin.

- archie moore was in his heavyweight prime, remember he had a long heavyweight career starting in 1951 and ending in 1962.

- i think walcott was at his best defintley. he just beat charles 4 months prior.


walcott, charles, moore were all still great fighters when they fought rocky, much better than any other opponent marciano beat including harry kid mathews.


u really think harry kid mathews would beat jersey joe walcott, ezzard charles, archie moore of the first marciano fights?

Huh? I never thought Matthews would beat Walcott, Charles, Moore, or Marciano. He beat Charles in '56 after Charles had slid quite a bit more, but that means nothing. Where did you get that I thought that about Matthews? All I said was that he was a solid fighter.

I said Moore was not at his physical peak and that he wasn't a (true) heavyweight. He might have been at his best at that particular division at the time, but what does that mean? Tommy Hearns was at his best at light heavyweight when he beat Virgil Hill, but he wasn't in his physical prime.

Walcott was not in his prime, he was just nourished correctly and able to train. His physical prime passed years before but were wasted by not having the time to train or the money to eat right. So what if he beat Charles? He caught Charles (a great, blown up light heavyweight) with a perfect shot in their third fight, this after losing the two first fights clearly. From what I've seen of the fourth fight and what I've read, Walcott won somewhat of a gift decision over Charles in their final bout.

I admit that Walcott was on the best run of his career (although he was 7-5 before facing Marciano and 7-7 after their two bouts), but that has to do more with circumstance and being more intelligent about accepting bouts.

I can see why people say Tyson would have beat Leiws. I don't think so but I can see why. But Coetzer? Please! Will someone please check to see if Razor has a brain. I know we all have opinions but I think everyone except Razor can agree that Coetzer is no top 20 HW of all time, not even top 50 and that he wouldn't beat Tyson, Lewis or Holyfield. Also that Marciano is top 10/15 HW all time material. Coatzer wouldn't stand a chance.

Razor don't use info and then when you are mocked for it say you got it from another website. If you know the man exagerates why quote him?
As for the rape case I still can't believe you believe Tyson's innocence on your supposed "facts" of she willingly went to his room, she kissed him, she had no bruises etc. Thats what a rapist would defend himself with. With attitudes like that no wonder rapists get off with it. By the way how can you compare paedophiles to football hooligans? You seem to think that all English people like football and all football fans are hooligans.

One more point. You seem to think that partizan crowds are an unacceptable excuse for any sports people to use to explain defaeat. Thats crap! Are you just on a wind up or are you really that stupid?

BrocktonBlockbuster49 wrote:

silkov wrote:I wouldn't say its bullshit, its his opinion which he's entitled to, just as you're entitled to yours Brock... personally I wouldn't rate Lastarza over Coetzee and Gerries power would trouble both Walcott and Charles... Coetzee had his flaws but he had a very good chin, good power and fast hands and would certainly fit into the heavyweight top 15... I could see him beating Lewis and a number of other top 15 heavies........ you tend to vastly overrate the heavies of Marcianos era while underrating those of the 70s and 80s who were by and large vastly more talented than those of the 50s....

which heavies do i overate of the 50s? i dont even have lastarza in my top 50. i rate most of the 70s heavyweights very high.

i cant believe ur sticking up for this fool when hes claiming coetzee would beat rocky marciano and lennox lewis. u rate rocky marciano 10th for crying out loud. u really thing he would beat the rock? wut about joe frazier? or jack dempsey?


i think its u who vastly overates the heavyweights of the 1980s. you think this was the 2nd best group outside of the 1970s which is far from the truth.

I stand by what I said about the heavies of the early to mid 80s being superior to the heavyweights of Marcinaos era... as for me sticking up for certain people if I agree with someone I agree with them. simple as that, ...I disagree with Razor on a number of subjects but agree with him them Coetzee is underrated and that he rates in the top 20.... I've never said that Coetzee would beat Marcinao though... I think that it would have been a hard fight for both men and Coetzee would give Rocky a lot of trouble... a very even fight I think...

I thought people defending Tyson on here were saying she had no bruising? Having said that I also remember someone saying that Tyson liked rough sex that would explain the bruising. I made the case that I've had boxing matches where I've been hit hard and not bruised so just because she had no bruises that is no defence.

Silkov do you really have Coetzer in a top 20 hw of all time?

Arsenal wrote:Silkov do you really have Coetzer in a top 20 hw of all time?

Yeah, why not?.... people rate Lewis in the top 15, I'm pretty sure that Coetzee could have beaten Lewis... lists are always subjective but Coetzee could certainly have held his own with most of the top heavyweights in the top 20 and I don't see why placing him in the top 20 is so outrageous... the man was a very good fighter in a very decent division...