IrishRufusMurphy wrote:Jack Johnson Argue with me all you like, but there was not a fighter in his time with the skills nor the power and athlectism that the 'Galveston Giant' had. He conquered the 'Negro' division and then became the Undisputed champion. Although he faced mostly white men during his championship reign, how could blame him? That was where the money was. Over-all he beat the best of his time, despite the races, and he competively fought into his 50's, offering challenges to Dempsey, Firpo and even Joe Louis, denied all times. Who else can lay claim to all that? Oh and he broke the color barrier well before Louis and Robinson, so his importance outside the ring is as well noted as his pugilistic career.
Muhammad Ali Not the 'Greatest' but surely the 'fastest' Heavyweight in modern times, if not ever. Like Johnson his skills were far and beyond those of his contemporaries and peers, it wasn't until his 3rd decade as an athlete that his skills were deteriorated (TKO 11 Holmes). He was relatively the first champion since Burns to have did a 'world' tour defending his title against the British/German/European champions. After a three year exile, he returned and again regained his title in 1974. He lost his title in 1978 only to regain it again later that year. Often criticised still to this day for his 'lack of punching power' but even after he lost all his speed and agility, he was still the most dominate Heavyweight. That and his life outside the ring, as well as using his 'Louisville Lip' brought boxing to another level in popularity.
Rocky Marciano Over-came a late start, short reach, and crude style to over come a division ripe with talent. Rather than 'waste' years working his way to the top, Marciano took on the best fighters available and got attention real quick as a 'force' in the division. Though he is thought of as a crude fighter who just had a punch, by the time he retired, undefeated with a 88% KO percentage, his bobbing and weaving abilities were Dempsey-like. With relatively no amatuer experience, and not having a trainer until his 10th pro fight, Marciano worked harder than any other fighter of his era. He worked down to 180 pounds, training as if he were a bare-knuckle fighter, to have the endurance to go 45 rounds. Ask Walcott, Louis and Charles and Moore, they will tell you, Marciano was the hardest hitting man they ever faced.
Joe Louis 25 title defenses. Nearly 12yrs as champion. Could knock a man out with a 6" punch. Defeated virtually every single man of his era. Faced more ex/future champions than any other Heavyweight with a relatively high success rate against them. Dismissed as a 'stalker' Joe Louis was a true and pure fighting machine from the waist up, his combinations were frightening. Take one look at the second Schmeling fight, and you can see the brilliance and importance of Joe Louis. Arguably the greatest puncher over-all in history, despite the divisions.
Jack Dempsey No one fighter in history has been reveered to an almost 'legendary' status as Dempsey has. When mentioned he is almost on the level of Paul Bunyan and John Henry in his mystique, that is how beloved this fighter is. After the 'Great White Hope' era, Dempsey emerged from the street and rail cars to dethrone the over-sized giants of the time, such as Carl Morris and Fred Fulton in short order. His massacre of Jess Willard is a sight to behold. No fighter probably has been as important or as popular in the sport. When Babe Ruth was hitting home runs and Red Grange was going for touch downs, Dempsey was making more money than the two men combined. Though his championshipreign had little title defenses, nobody can argue his skill or his toughness and power.
Larry Holmes Following a popular champion is very hard for anybody, but Holmes probably had it worse than anybody. His skills were, like Ali and Johnson, far and beyond anybody of his era. His jab in my opinion was the greatest there was. 20 title defenses and going undefeated in his first 48 fights is hardly to scoff at. Though most of his title defenses were against grade C and B level fighters, Holmes shouldn't be over looked. History I believe will judge Holmes more kindly than the critics did when he was champion. When he was undefeated at 48-0 people criticised him for nearing Marciano's record. When he won recognition as champion with his win over Norton nobody cared. Even when he beat Ali in 1980, people scorned him. They criticised his style and said he lacked a killer attitude. It was totally unfair. Not to mention his comeback in the late 80's to mid 90's was phenomenal. Holmes had it all but respect.
George Foreman Undefeated in his first 40 fights. Most of his opponents made it passed the 3rd round. His power and ferocity was unlike any other fighter before him. A giant of a man in the 70's Foreman used his brute strength and Liston-like attitude to frighten the division. His kayo's of Frazier and Norton are amazing. After losing the title to Ali, he once tried to prove he was the 'baddest man on the planet' by beating 5 top contenders in 1975 all in the same night. After a loss to Jimmy Young in 77' Foreman mysteriously disappeared from sight and became an ordained minister. He returned to the ring in 1987 and despite all the laughs and 'sideshow' atmosphere, Foreman pressed on. In 1991 he showed up Holyfield in a very impressive showing for the title, but lost the decision. In 1993 he lost a controversial decision to Tommy Morrison for the WBO title. In 1994 he shocked the world when he knocked out newly crowned Michael Moorer in the 10th round. He held on to the 'lineal' title until 1997, losing a highly controversial decision to Shannon Briggs. Foreman in his first 'career' was a brute, in his second, a saavy tactician. He turned the sport upside down, and was an inspiration to his fellow Heavyweights from the 70's and 80's as they too made comebacks.
Evander Holyfield Still considered the greatest Cruiserweight champion there ever was, though he is considered a has-been nowadays still fighting on in pursuit of the Heavyweight crown at 42, Evander Holyfield over came alot to become one of the all-time greatest champions. He blew away former champion Dokes to defeat newly crowned Douglas, to defeat both Foreman and Holmes, and still no respect. It wasn't until he lost to Bowe that the critics and fans gave Holyfield his due. He went on to regain the title another three times, being the only man in history to win the Heavyweight title FOUR times. His resume consists of wins over the best fighters of the 90's, facing all the top men: Tyson, Bowe, Moorer and Lewis, with a high success rate against them all. He plans to not retire until he has won one of the four belts, becoming a 5x Heavywieght champion.
Lennox Lewis Three times Heavyweight champion. Defeating the best in Britain and in America. Nobody can lay claim to having faced virtually every top man in the 90's til his 2004 retirement. His list of victims includes Tyson, Mercer, Holyfield, Bruno, McCall, Rahman, Klitschko, Morrison, Golota, Briggs, Weaver, Mason, Ruddock. Need I say more? He is the best of the 'big' men since Holmes, using his 85" reach advatge to pick apart his opponents. Only his ego and cockiness seemed to be his weakness, as he would not train well against opponents he felt were beneath him---all his losses he avenged in short order. Truly the last dominate champion of our times.
Mike Tyson His climb through the division was unlike no other. In two short years he became Heavyweight champion, at age 20. His power and speed and head movements were amazing, even faster than prior fighters like Dempsey. His main weakness was his psyche, even back as an amateur, but outside of that he seemed invincible. 36-0 he went until his major upset defeat from Buster Douglas in 1990. He defeated former champions Tubbs, Berbick, Smith, Holmes, Spinks, Bruno, Seldon with relative ease. Though in his later years he adopted more of a 'head hunting' style and dropped his skills, he was still a deadly force to be reckoned with up until his retirement, as his one punch power was still evident in such fights as his brawls with Golota (gave the Pole herniated discs in his neck) and his 45 second kayo of Cliff Ettienne. We may never see another like him in our life time.
Jim Jefferies Though he has the shortest fight record of any of the men listed here, Jim Jefferies was light years ahead of his time in terms of success rates. In an era when knock outs were rare, his knockout percentage of well over 75% was remarkable. He was the first 'big' heavyweight, being 6'2" and weighing anywhere from 226-230 pounds and weighing as much as 280 pounds when not in shape. He was a remarkable athletic specimen, and though not a man with polished skills, he was blessed with enormous strength, toughness and determination. He is unfairly remembered in his comeback against Jack Johnson, where he had to lose over 100 pounds and get into shape for a 45 round fight all in a period of 6 months. He still holds the record for the fastest knockout in a Heavyweight title match (55 seconds).
Ezzard Charles If there was a better fighter at Light Heavyweight, we never saw him. Charles was virtually the only fighter at 175 that Moore could not beat. His resume at Middleweight and Light Heavyweight are sights to behold, and was shut out of title shots at both weights. He had the misfortune of following wildly popular Joe Louis, and it wasn't until he butchered Louis in his comeback that he was given the respect he was due. I rank him lower than the men below because even though his record at Heavyweight was superb, his best was truly at lighter weight classes and since we are talking about Heavyweight champions, and most of Charles' defenses were against Jersey Joe Walcott, myself he was 'better' when he wasn't champion, as he defeated most everybody he was matched against.
Sonny Liston Perhaps no other fighter in history has been surrounded in as much mystery and speculation and fear as this man. Over-looked and badly judged because of his losses to Muhammad Ali, Liston was not just a banger. His jab is one of the best, and reputedly could knock a man out with it, as evident in some of his fights. His punching power was so great that in sparring his training partners would wear chest protectors as well as headgear and Liston wear 20 ounce gloves. Though his championship reign is rather short, with two defenses, both 1st round knockouts of Floyd Patterson, Liston's legacy is before and after he was champion. Even into his 40's he fought in Heavyweight tournaments to determine number one contenders. his last fight was a 10th round TKO over the anvil-like Chuck Wepner in 1970. Even George Foreman, who served as Liston's sparring partner for a short time, said Liston was one of the hardest punching men he ever worked with, and even molded himself after him.
Jersey Joe Walcott He lived a 'cinderella' story. A garbage man by day and a fighter by night. Fought for many years in obscurity and denied shots, Walcott didn't become a national figure until he faced Joe Louis, when he had already amassed nearly 60 professional bouts. He lost a controversial decision to Louis, in which many people felt he won. Three years later, at age 37, he finally won the title against Ezzard Charles. His reign was short, and lost to Marciano by KO in the 13th round in 1952. In the rematch he was annhilated in the 1st round. He never fought again. Walcott is deemed a 'lesser' fighter by most fans, but this is far from the truth. Most say he was too old when he faced Marciano, but mind you, up until the KO he was ahead on all cards easily.
His style was extremely hard to beat. He is easily an all-time great, despite his short reign and for many years shut out of opprotunities.
Tommy Burns (Read my thread) 11 title defenses. Over came small stature and weight. Followed wildly popular Jim Jefferies, to become a huge name himself. Became the first man to defend his title around the world, against other countries champions. Unfairly judged by his loss to Johnson. Great skills and great power, held his own against the best Middlweights and Heavyweights of the era.
Gene Tunney I rank Tunney so low because, like Charles, his best was at lighter weight classes. Tunney amassed the majority of his wins at Middleweight and Light Heavyweight bouts. He never faced colored fighters, and his Heavyweight career was rather short, as well as his reign. He was smart financially in chosing a rematch with Dempsey, but in my opinion he never really proved his superiority as champion of that weight. I rank him second-best right behind Charles as a Laight Heavyweight who was shut out from title opprotunities at that division.
Max Schmeling Politics damn near ruined his career and forever tarnished his image. Branded an Nazi when he wasn't, Max Schmeling possibly had the worst public relations with the boxing world than any other man. Winning both German titles at Heavyweight and Light Heavyweight, as well as recognition as the European Light Heavyweight title, he is the only man thus far in history to have won the Heavyweight crown on a DQ. He was a superb tactician and had very good power. His performances against Louis in their first bout was pure genius. Even after he failed to regain the title again, he became German Heavyweight champion in later years.
Jack Sharkey "The Boston Gob" is not very well remembered by fans and is reveered by historians as a fighter who could have been an all-time great but wasted his talents. Remembered unfairly for how he was knocked out by Dempsey and Carnera, Sharkey had skills that few in his era could have matched. After he lost the title he drifted into obscurity, only to make a comeback against Joe Louis, and was knocked out in three rounds. He was philisophical in defeat somewhat along these lines: "Someday when Joe is old, a young up and coming Heavyweight will come after him as well, it happens to everyone, it happened to me tonight."
Max Baer It is so sad how a man who literally had the entire division scared stiff by his power, who could have been one of the top 5 greatest fighters of all time at Heavyweight, pissed away his career. Max Baer, before Joe Louis arrived, had THE hardest punch in the division, whenever it landed 200 pound men dropped. He was cold and relentless in his early years, and only slowed down after he killed two men in the ring, and adopted a more 'clowning' style and attitude. His destruction of Max Schmeling and Carnera are one of the most brutal beatings ever. He had so much talent...it's a shame.
Bob Fitzsimmons The world's first triple crown champion. Winnings titles at Middleweight, Heavyweight and into his 40's the Light Heavyweight crown. "Speckled Bob" was one of the hardest punching and toughest fighters, as well as a very good boxer, there ever was. Most fans have never heard his name, but even the Great John L. Sullivan said Fitzsimmons was "a fighting machine on stilts", due to his awkward appearance. Fitzsimmons was no more than 167 pounds, and stopped 300+ pound men, such as Ed Dunkhorst, in their tracks. His longetivity was Foremanesque. He is truly a legend in the sport.
Jim Corbett Possibly Heavyweight boxing's first 'boxer'. He used his jab and dancing feet to springboard his way through the division. One time a bunch of old-timers, who had seen Corbett fight, was asked what they thought of Muhammad Ali's ring speed. Their answer shocked most people as they said Corbett in their opinion was faster, like a 'dancing moon beam'. His reign was long and was also an accomplished wrestler. He continued to fight for the title after he lost it, in grand shows against Fitzsimmons and Jefferies. His longetivity was great as well, considering the last exhibition bout he had was in 1925 against Gene Tunney.
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John L. Sullivan I list him last ONLY because for the majority of the years he fought were under the London Prize Ring Rules, where it was a combination of boxing and graeco-roman wrestling, and a round ended when a man went down. It was almost an entirely different sport.
Sullivan was champion of America in bareknuckle fights for a decade, as well as winning the Marquis of Queensbury, the first Heavyweight title champion, in 1885 holding on to that title for seven years. He was the first Heavyweight champion to go to England, and although he did not defend his title on English soil, he had numerous exhibition bouts against all-comers.
So you can say he was truthfully the first 'world' champion, as England was the mecca of boxing for the last hundred years and America was still trying to get its roots in the sport. It was once said, if Sullivan's record was complete, he would of had well-over 200 knock outs to his credit.
His last defense of his Bareknuckle title was in 1889, a TKO in the 75th round over Jake Kilrain. He lost his Heavyweight championship to Jim Corbett in 1892 and never fought again. Altogether a championship reign of 17yrs.
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Honorable Mentions:
James Figg Champion of England, when England was THE boxing capital of the world. He reigned from 1719-1730 (not a typo). He helped establish the 'finer' points of boxing, as he demonstrated the jab and bobbing and weaving, as well as other basic rudiments of boxing. Back then pugilism was a street fight, wrestling, kicking, virtually everything was allowed---and was declared an illegal sport---until the London prize Ring Rules were formulated, in which Figg himself helped make. He retired as champion, presumably undefeated, as his record in sketchy. Later he became a 'teacher' in the arts of combat, a boxing, wrestling and fencing school.
Tom Mulineaux Was the first 'American Champion' even though he was a former slave. Way before Johnson broke the color barrier, he went to England and was trained by Bill Richmond, a Negro boxer, who also was a slave, and faced Tom Cribb, the champion of England. He was greatly cheated out of a victory, and failed to win in the rematch. It was the first fight of note, between a black champion and a white champion. Mulineaux later died of alcoholism.
thats a good read dude.
i noticed a lot of people rate JJ very highy, i honestly dont know enough about the guy...
