BoxRec

Former light middleweight champion "Gypsy" Johnny Frankham standing over Muhammed Ali (then Cassius Clay).'

This image was supplied to us Jake Bowers; his great aunt Janie Frankham's son was Johnny Frankham. Jake believes the image showing former light middleweight champion "Gypsy" Johnny Frankham standing over Muhammed Ali (then Cassius Clay) having just floored him in an exhibition match.

http://www.grtleeds.co.uk/Culture/boxing.html

bollox wrote:

Former light middleweight champion "Gypsy" Johnny Frankham standing over Muhammed Ali (then Cassius Clay).'

This image was supplied to us Jake Bowers; his great aunt Janie Frankham's son was Johnny Frankham. Jake believes the image showing former light middleweight champion "Gypsy" Johnny Frankham standing over Muhammed Ali (then Cassius Clay) having just floored him in an exhibition match.

http://www.grtleeds.co.uk/Culture/boxing.html

- Absolutely cracking! Ali, bless him, damn he's probably the only fighter who approaches the number of exhibitions Jack Dempsey staged. Never did learn to defend the left hook.

Correction may be needed though. Per boxrec, Gypsy was the BBBofC British LH champ, splitting a pair with the late, great Chris Finnegan at the height of his brief career. All falls into place with Ali being vulnerable to smallish quick heavies/LH with good left hooks. Then again, Gypsy only had a 15% KO ratio, and looks as surprised as Ali.

I'm guessing this is somewhere between 76-78 when Ali enjoyed touring the world being the star of his own heavyweight champ of the world show as his "rolls" still look manageable.

Photo does capture that "Where'd Joe Frazier come in from?" moment. I'm thinking with a little research and promotional push, Gypsy could be in the running for the three best left hooks in boxing history, Sir Henry and Joe Frazier contesting the top spot.

May even be film clip out there!

The absolute last time I fought bare knuckles,I also got my nose broken for my troubles

BroughtonRulesRefuge wrote:I'm guessing this is somewhere between 76-78 when Ali enjoyed touring the world being the star of his own heavyweight champ of the world show as his "rolls" still look manageable.

Photo does capture that "Where'd Joe Frazier come in from?" moment. I'm thinking with a little research and promotional push, Gypsy could be in the running for the three best left hooks in boxing history, Sir Henry and Joe Frazier contesting the top spot.

May even be film clip out there!

http://forum.boxrec.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=50392

I saw some little kid KO Ali in an exhibition also.

isnt john fury related 2 the gormans.

Thanks for the contribution mercman, the reference to the Frankham-Finnegan bout is outstanding, as I have few matches (outside of McLean-Shaw) between two notable gypsy/traveller and/or unlicensed fighters. The Frankham's that night were the 'best' of the gypsies, for sure.

Unfortunately, the pic is a fake. Earlier in the evening Alan Burton had knocked Ali down, and then later on Frankham had his turn at knocking Ali down. It was all for show.

HomicideHenry wrote:Unfortunately, the pic is a fake. Earlier in the evening Alan Burton had knocked Ali down, and then later on Frankham had his turn at knocking Ali down. It was all for show.

Aw, you big spoilsport!

BRR got a woody looking at that photo. And it was a bloomin fake all along! The picture, I mean. The woody was for real...

Collins2000 wrote:The woody was for real...

- Indeed, Mr. Wood is attempting a burst through Ali's shorts.



Now we know why Ali went down so often.......... 8)

http://www.boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?hu ... &cat=boxer

^^^Henry Wharton, who previously mentioned, also fought bare knuckle

mercman wrote:

Thanks for the contribution mercman, the reference to the Frankham-Finnegan bout is outstanding, as I have few matches (outside of McLean-Shaw) between two notable gypsy/traveller and/or unlicensed fighters. The Frankham's that night were the 'best' of the gypsies, for sure.

Thanks, HH. Another British professional with gypsy roots that you might be interested in is Henry Wharton. Wharton was an exciting, big-punching super-middleweight in the 1990s and fought Nigel Benn for a version of the world title. I am sure I heard somewhere that he now does unlicensed or bare-knuckle stuff - although I believe he is a lot bigger and heavier than super-middle nowadays.

henry ,contray to the rumors on this site,does not do barenuckle or unlisecensed.yes,he is about 14-15 stone and still very much respected,but i doubt many would be stupid enough to even want to go down that route

http://www.boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?hu ... &cat=boxer

^^^This man goes under the name of 'Gypsy Boy' Ernie Smith, anyone know much on him, if he is a true gypsy or not?

I got some pics of Lenny McLean's posters, but the one that caught my eye the most was 'Lenny McLean vs Paul Sykes', a bout that was scheduled but never happened, as Sykes busted his hand in a bar room brawl, and the match was scrapped. What a fight that would have been!

Looking at the fight posters, there are literally several unlicensed fighters and bare knuckle scrappers listed on the same card as McLean, so, I got my work cut out for me to determine who actually boxed as professionals but dabbled in unlicensed contests, and who was bare knucklers.

Another interesting contest was between Johnny Waldron and Kevin Paddock. Waldron, for all intents and purposes, must have been quite the bad ass, because in 1991 at the age of 40 he knocked out Julius Francis who was then 27 in an unlicensed contest.

Do the names:

Harry 'The Legend' Starbuck
Steve Richard
Pat Morrison
Danny Chippendale
Patsy Gutteridge
Mickey Gluxted
Brian Bradshaw
Rocky Kelly
Roy Paul
Johnny Clark
Johnny Wall
Steve Conway
Terry Johnson
Roy York
Donny carter
Speed Mack
John Dane
Patsy Russell
Terry Scrutton
Paul McCormack
Johnny McCade
Stevie Elwood
Tommy Adams
Bobby Goldsmith


Ring any bells?

Broke them up into two seperate lists...


Professionals/Possible Professionals

Danny Chippendale
Steve Richards
Pat Gutteridge
Rocky Kelly
Johnny Clark
Johnny Wall
Steve Conway
Steve Ellwood
Bob Goldsmith

More than likely bare knucklers

Harry Starbuck
Pat Morrison
Mickey Gluxted
Brian Bradshaw
Roy Paul
Terry Johnson
Donny Carter
Speed Mack
John Dane
Patsy Russell
Terry Scrutton
Paul McCormack
Johnny McCade
Tommy Adams

Also, I been trying to piece together a record for Bartley Gorman, and so far this is what I have:


1972- claims title after defeating Johnny Fletcher; Uriah Burton recently died leaving the title vacant, the fight occured at the Park Royal Hotel

1972- spars with Roger Barlow at Merthyr, Wales in a gloved session

1976- arrives at the Donchaster Racecourse, unnamed opponent (kayoed), Gorman was attacked by a mob; recovers after a year

1980- dislocates shoulder against 'Mexicana Webb', but prevails via kayo

1983- sources vary, but Gorman either sparred or shadow-boxed alongside Muhammad Ali

1991- unnamed opponent at Hinckley; was following his brother's funeral

1994- unnamed opponent at Coventry Crock Fair

1997- kayos 'Freedom Lee' in what is to be his last bout at Dartmoor

Uncertain of the year, but Gorman also fought a man named Mark Ripley, he also holds claim of defeating 'Big' John Rooney (an Irish gypsy champion) who was the brother of Dan Rooney. I believe they can be found on YouTube along with the fighting Joyce's and McGinley's.

Also, noted, Gorman sent challenges to Lenny McLean and Roy Shaw. Ironically, though, Shaw almost acts as if he never heard of Gorman.

A statue of Gorman was erected near the J.C.B. factory at Abbotts Bromley.

Says on Tyson Fury's wikipedia page his grandfather was 'Tiger Gorman', so, I guess that closes the book on the rumors that Fury is a relative of Bartley Gorman. States that Tiger Gorman had 50-60 fights, but I find no record of this on BoxRec except a handful of fights, and it doesnt say Gorman came from Ireland either.

HomicideHenry wrote:Says on Tyson Fury's wikipedia page his grandfather was 'Tiger Gorman', so, I guess that closes the book on the rumors that Fury is a relative of Bartley Gorman. States that Tiger Gorman had 50-60 fights, but I find no record of this on BoxRec except a handful of fights, and it doesnt say Gorman came from Ireland either.

Not sure how Irish Tyson Fury is as he was found ineligible to represent Ireland as an amateur... after having a couple of bouts under the tricolour.

That suggests his old man wasn't born on the Emerald Isle either.

Possibly more Irish than Irish Leroy Haley though...

All in all, the certain best of the bunch so far in this thread, is without a doubt, Johnny Waldron.

Hi,i have recently been making a record of former bare knuckle fighters,when it comes to the likes of Lenny Mclean and Roy shaw its relatively easy but for many others its really tough,its a good list of bare knuclers that 'HomicdeHenry' has put up on a prevoius post,have you got any information on these guys,i am currently actually trying to put together a profile on Terry Johnson who is one name you have listed but not having much luck,all help appreciated.

I had went to the gym for many months, before finding out that due to having a detached retina, I could not fight Amateur, I took up bareknuckling with my mates

We could box properly, and I think I went something like 5-3-0

Then, however, I met a gypsy who called himself Donny Colton, and he beat me up so badly, I was wondering if anyone every heard of this fella?

(I stopped after that pasting)

Thanks for sharing Costa, is greatly appreciated. Maybe we'll find something on your gypsy man

HomicideHenry wrote:Thanks for sharing Costa, is greatly appreciated. Maybe we'll find something on your gypsy man

Lol...hope so, and I hope he isn t a bum, I hope he s the best....otherwise my loss was very embarassing

IMO, the loss wouldn't be too bad either way, boxing and bare knuckle fighting are two completely different worlds and rules. Nobody is the favorite when they step into different versions of combat sports. It would be like saying Muhammad Ali could defeat Fedor under mma rules, or that Arlovski is a sure fire bet to defeat the Klitschko's under the Marquis of Queensbury.

Btw, anyone have a copy or know where a copy of Paul Sykes autobiography is?

Everywhere I look, or everyone I ask, says the book is no longer in circulation.