BoxRec

Asterix wrote:KOin5, I'm also British. The P4P system is more beneficial to boxers who dominate a weight class than boxers who have moved through multiple weigh categories quickly.

KOin5 wrote:

Asterix wrote:KOin5, I'm also British. The P4P system is more beneficial to boxers who dominate a weight class than boxers who have moved through multiple weigh categories quickly.

Surely someone who dominates a weight class has acheived less than someone who hops between divisions.

And the boxers who acheive most are generally the best.

And if the boxers who are best are best p4p...

Then why isn't Pac top?

There, is an obvious flaw in the system ^_^

Cobwebcat wrote:

JCS wrote:It should be renamed to division dominance, because that's what it is.

Thats one way of measuring P4P though isn't it? Perhaps the only objective method

conan_the_cribber wrote:Ratings at the other of the scale.

I was wondering if there might be scope for improvements at the other end of the scale i.e. down amongst the tomatos.

Some thread showed the Zelenoff vs Hartley clip and so I went scanning for the ranks of these fighters. Both were quoted as unranked, which is understandable for Zelenoff, but questionable for Hartley. I mean, the guy has had 15 or so fights now and so that's quite a data set to rank him with.

Anyhow, I went to the ratings link and selected all the U.S Welters. Sure enough, all the welters are there, with their points total. Many have the same points total, and yet seem to be sorted in a reasonable order, so I guess there is an unpublished number helping this sorting.

Anyhow, amongst the curiosities that I saw.

Carrine Hammlet http://www.boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?hu ... &cat=boxer has a draw and a SD loss, so I'm surprised he landed on 0 points

William Deboe Thomas http://www.boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?hu ... &cat=boxer who has only fought twice, and lost both, ended up a) with a rank and b) with 3 pts. Probably the MD is valued higher than the SD, whereby, the SD was actually better becuase Hammlet won on one judges card, whereas Thomas did not.

Josh Durden http://www.boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?hu ... &cat=boxer is also on 0 pts, despite a run of 5 wins and 0 losses. Admittedly, he has fought the worst of the worst, but nevertheless, 5 wins and 4kos against this opposition would mean to me, that he is probably a tick better than the other 0pt fighters.

Rafael Estradahttp://www.boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?hu ... &cat=boxer same goes for Rafael who has at least some wins (including a win against someone who won a fight) and a draw against Sook what's his name, who is obviously not complete dirt either.

Getting back to the original two fighters. Intuitively I’d say, that someone who beats someone , even if it is a debuting fighter, is generally better than them. I’d rank Hartley above Zelenoff. Naturally you shouldn’t be able to rocketing up the ladder by KOing a bunch of 0-0-0 or 0-1-0 fighters, but I’d still give you at least 1 pt for the win. And I’d probably rank someone higher, who has beaten 5 such debuting fighters as someone who has beaten just one.

Probably all this is reflected in a mystery hidden number somehow. Still I think some improvements are possible.

conan

JohnShep wrote:I think computerrank is on holiday for the next week or so

computerrank wrote:@conan

Only full points are presented in the ratings. But the ranking (look at the rank independent of rated or not) depends on the part points too.

All boxers below 1 point are 'not rated'.

Hartley vs Zelenoff

Hartley 0.010
Zelenoff 0.001

But both below 1 and so unrated.

Carrine Hammlet 0.631 - 4 rounder (only 1/3 points compared with 12 rounder) against opponent with only 6 points

Code: Select all

date      |division            |boxer               |opponent            |rs|dec|box_0>box_1|opp_0|opp_1|h_adv
----------|--------------------|--------------------|--------------------|--|---|-----|-----|-----|-----|-----
2007-08-03|Light Middleweight  |Hamlett             |Carrington          |L |UD |    0|    0|    0|    0|    0
2008-03-08|                    |Hamlett             |O'Hare              |D |MD |    0|    0|    0|    0|    0
2008-04-26|Light Middleweight  |Hamlett             |Woods               |L |UD |    0|    0|   23|   23|    0
2008-09-19|Super Middleweight  |Hamlett             |Seivert             |L |SD |    0|    0|    6|    5|    0

William Deboe Thomas 3.352 - 4 rounder against opponent with 60 points

Code: Select all

date      |division            |boxer               |opponent            |rs|dec|box_0>box_1|opp_0|opp_1|h_adv
----------|--------------------|--------------------|--------------------|--|---|-----|-----|-----|-----|-----
2008-10-10|Welterweight        |Thomas              |Dolton              |L |UD |    0|    0|   27|   27|    0
2008-11-14|Lightweight         |Thomas              |Lester              |L |MD |    0|    3|   60|   57|    0

Josh Durden 0.001

Code: Select all

date      |division            |boxer               |opponent            |rs|dec|box_0>box_1|opp_0|opp_1|h_adv
----------|--------------------|--------------------|--------------------|--|---|-----|-----|-----|-----|-----
2006-11-11|Welterweight        |Durden              |Batts               |W |KO |    0|    0|    0|    0|    0
2007-03-24|Light Welterweight  |Durden              |Johnson             |W |TKO|    0|    0|    0|    0|    0
2007-09-28|                    |Durden              |Fairfax             |W |KO |    0|    0|    0|    0|    0
2007-11-17|                    |Durden              |Wiggins             |W |TKO|    0|    0|    0|    0|   99
2009-01-10|Lightweight         |Durden              |Shakir              |W |PTS|    0|    0|    0|    0|    0

Rafael Estrada 0.605

Code: Select all

date      |division            |boxer               |opponent            |rs|dec|box_0>box_1|opp_0|opp_1|h_adv
----------|--------------------|--------------------|--------------------|--|---|-----|-----|-----|-----|-----
2004-03-03|Middleweight        |Estrada             |Moreno              |W |TKO|    0|    0|    0|    0|    0
2004-03-26|Middleweight        |Estrada             |Hill                |D |PTS|    0|    0|    0|    0|    0
2004-04-10|Middleweight        |Estrada             |Silvey              |NC|ND |    0|    0|    0|    0|    0
2004-06-02|                    |Estrada             |Bartley             |W |TKO|    0|    0|    0|    0|    0
2004-06-25|Welterweight        |Estrada             |Boldridge           |W |UD |    0|    0|    0|    0|    0
2004-08-26|Welterweight        |Estrada             |Hinds               |L |KO |    0|    0|    0|   30|    0
2005-05-26|Welterweight        |Estrada             |Collins             |W |TKO|    0|    0|    0|    0|    0
2008-04-19|Welterweight        |Estrada             |Siyajuck            |D |MD |    0|    1|    5|    4|    0

jujigatame wrote:I don't think there's any secret or trick to it. Just try to fight the highest ranked guys possible, and win.

Sledgehammer wrote:Thank you guys. I appreciate it.

JCS wrote:Martin,

Are you still factoring unsanctioned bouts at half value?

computerrank wrote:

JCS wrote:Martin,

Are you still factoring unsanctioned bouts at half value?

Yes - I do!

JCS wrote:How do you feel about this, Martin?

Cobwebcat wrote:Computerrank: Can you have a look at the all-time light welter rankings please. No 13 Len Davies does not look like he should feature so high looking at his record.