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Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

Posted: 08 Mar 2009, 00:51
by dagosd2000
NO PLACE FOR THE WIFE AND KIDS

Yeh,I think Ali looked at his fight here in San Diego with Norton as a kind of vacation. I mean the guy brought his wife and kids. I remember him saying,"Don't you have a zoo in this town?" The San Diego Zoo is one of the most famous in the world.

That afternoon while Ali was in the ring with his microphone and letting Tony Doyle and Billy Joiner hit him to the body,his wife and kids were at the zoo. Ali was nothin' to look at when it came to training. He didn't hit the bags with any authority. He skipped rope kind of slow ,and did his road work like he was pullin' a piano. He flicked a few jabs when sparring. Danced a little. (I think he only did that to please the crowd). Most of the time he just let his sparring partners whack away at him.

Ali would laugh and say that he put his wife in a room on the other side of the hotel from where he was staying. He said he didn't want to be tempted. I bet he gave in a few times.

Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

Posted: 08 Mar 2009, 01:04
by dagosd2000
Brian
Here's my take on Ali's attitude towards Floyd(and Terrell and Frazier). Ali would act the clown. He had fun being Muhammad Ali. But when people intentionally called hin Clay,he'd get upset. He believes to this day in his faith. He's a Muslim.I'm no Muslim,but if the guy changes his name to Muhammad Ali and wants people to call him that,it's fine with me. I never heard anyone call Kareem Abdul Jabbar,Lew Alcindor after he converted. Ali changed his name because he changed religions. That's why he took it out on those guys. I always thought Floyd Patterson was a bit TOO humble. He always talked about his courage(in a modest way),but he was definitely scared of Sonny Liston. When interviewed,his head would be down. You could hardly hear him talk. Everything was so sad with him.

Floyd Patterson was a fighter who possesed the skills to beat Ali. He was fast and had fast hands. I think Patterson saw in Ali's eyes that he had pissed him off. I don't think Patterson had that much heart when he fought Ali. That thing of his corner lifting him up because his back hurt. Everything was so sad with him.

Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

Posted: 08 Mar 2009, 01:07
by Rick Farris
Rick and Rog, do you guys have any thoughts on the way Ali acted towards Patterson?
It always bugged me how in that one clip thats floating around on youtube, Ali stops by Floyds camp and starts calling him "The Rabbit".
Floyd just kinda shrugs it off but you can tell Alis embarrased him. Lotta clowns in the background laughing and giggling.
They say Floyd wouldnt call him Ali . Called him Clay etc. and Muhamed had an ax to grind.
Maybe, I dont know.
In the clip, I feel bad for floyd.He put up with some serious shit.[/quote]
_____________________________________________________________________________________________________


Pug . . . Everybody always laughs and thinks Ali is so cool for how he would attempt to humiliate his opposition. Personally, I think that Ali was a very important international figure who made a lot of "statements" in an era where "statements" seemed to be important. Aside from that I believe he was really nothing more than an uneducated A-Hole who made an ass of himself as often as he proved himself a hero. Patterson was small, and basicly over-the-hill when he first fought Ali. I love Patterson, and believe that when he was young his speed and power were easily superior to that of Ali. However, I don't believe that Floyd at his best could have ever defeated the self-proclaimed "greatest". And although many of my era would be shocked to hear this, I doubt Ali would have come out on the winning end of a bout with the Dempsey that ate Jess Willard for lunch in 1919. Styles make fights, and everybody just assumes that Ali's style made fools of small punchers. They seem to forget what happened when he fought Frazier. Ali ate left hooks from old men, a young Dempsey's speed would have put his left fist and Ali's jaw, and when he did, Ali would have been in big trouble.

Of course, this is just my opinion. I do believe Ali was great in many ways, but not "The Greatest", especially when I see him hyping a fight with a huge underdog. When the guys Ali faced weren't so old, or so small, he kinda just was another heavyweight. A fine line seperates he and Frazier, Foreman and the many he was lucky to get the nod over, such as Jimmy Young.

Of course, my sixties generation contemporaries have built Muhammad Ali into something bigger than life. It's all about timing, I guess? And Bullshit, of course.

-Rick

Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

Posted: 08 Mar 2009, 01:12
by dagosd2000
Brian
How's training goin'?

Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

Posted: 08 Mar 2009, 01:21
by Rick Farris
dagosd2000 wrote:NO PLACE FOR THE WIFE AND KIDS

Yeh,I think Ali looked at his fight here in San Diego with Norton as a kind of vacation. I mean the guy brought his wife and kids. I remember him saying,"Don't you have a zoo in this town?" The San Diego Zoo is one of the most famous in the world.

That afternoon while Ali was in the ring with his microphone and letting Tony Doyle and Billy Joiner hit him to the body,his wife and kids were at the zoo. Ali was nothin' to look at when it came to training. He didn't hit the bags with any authority. He skipped rope kind of slow ,and did his road work like he was pullin' a piano. He flicked a few jabs when sparring. Danced a little. (I think he only did that to please the crowd). Most of the time he just let his sparring partners whack away at him.

Ali would laugh and say that he put his wife in a room on the other side of the hotel from where he was staying. He said he didn't want to be tempted. I bet he gave in a few times.
I was there, Rog. And the word I got was that Ali was screwing everything that walked. That "other side of the hotel" is kinda like my ex-manager putting his girlfriend on the other side of the Olympic, from where is wife was sitting. Everybody makes mistakes in life, one of Ali's biggest was underestimating Ken Norton. The only guys that Norton had trouble with were bangers. Ali couldn't break an egg and had nothing to deal with Kenny's style. I know a lot of people that were put off by Ken Norton, thought he was a prick. Personally, I liked the guy, and I still do. I didn't really know the guy aside from the gym, and fighting on a couple cards he headlined, but we had a couple conversations and I was happy we did.

Im my opinion, Ken Norton OWNED Muhammad Ali. In all three fights, regardless of what the officials gave us.


-Rick Farris

Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

Posted: 08 Mar 2009, 01:27
by dagosd2000
Rick Farris wrote:
dagosd2000 wrote:NO PLACE FOR THE WIFE AND KIDS

Yeh,I think Ali looked at his fight here in San Diego with Norton as a kind of vacation. I mean the guy brought his wife and kids. I remember him saying,"Don't you have a zoo in this town?" The San Diego Zoo is one of the most famous in the world.

That afternoon while Ali was in the ring with his microphone and letting Tony Doyle and Billy Joiner hit him to the body,his wife and kids were at the zoo. Ali was nothin' to look at when it came to training. He didn't hit the bags with any authority. He skipped rope kind of slow ,and did his road work like he was pullin' a piano. He flicked a few jabs when sparring. Danced a little. (I think he only did that to please the crowd). Most of the time he just let his sparring partners whack away at him.

Ali would laugh and say that he put his wife in a room on the other side of the hotel from where he was staying. He said he didn't want to be tempted. I bet he gave in a few times.
I was there, Rog. And the word I got was that Ali was screwing everything that walked. That "other side of the hotel" is kinda like my ex-manager putting his girlfriend on the other side of the Olympic, from where is wife was sitting. Everybody makes mistakes in life, one of Ali's biggest was underestimating Ken Norton. The only guys that Norton had trouble with were bangers. Ali couldn't break an egg and had nothing to deal with Kenny's style. I know a lot of people that were put off by Ken Norton, thought he was a prick. Personally, I liked the guy, and I still do. I didn't really know the guy aside from the gym, and fighting on a couple cards he headlined, but we had a couple conversations and I was happy we did.

Im my opinion, Ken Norton OWNED Muhammad Ali. In all three fights, regardless of what the officials gave us.


-Rick Farris
Rick
Your assessment is right. Norton told everyone that he wasn't afraid of Ali's punch. That's why he walked through him. After Ali fought him the first time and lost,he knew he had to fight him again. I think if Ali could have eeked out a decision against him the first time,I don't think he would have fought him again.

Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

Posted: 08 Mar 2009, 01:30
by Expug
Rick and Rog ,Thanks for the input guys.
You guys have seen Kenny and Ali up close.
I always think of what Joe Frazier said to Ali whenever the subject of Ali hyping fights comes up.
Joe asked Ali why he was always talkin so much shit before the two of them fought.
Ali told him "Im just trying to build the gate Joe"
Frazier told him ,"Muhamad, the fights already sold out".

Rog, trainings going well. Thanks.

Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

Posted: 08 Mar 2009, 02:07
by Rick Farris
dagosd2000 wrote:
Rick Farris wrote:
dagosd2000 wrote:NO PLACE FOR THE WIFE AND KIDS

Yeh,I think Ali looked at his fight here in San Diego with Norton as a kind of vacation. I mean the guy brought his wife and kids. I remember him saying,"Don't you have a zoo in this town?" The San Diego Zoo is one of the most famous in the world.

That afternoon while Ali was in the ring with his microphone and letting Tony Doyle and Billy Joiner hit him to the body,his wife and kids were at the zoo. Ali was nothin' to look at when it came to training. He didn't hit the bags with any authority. He skipped rope kind of slow ,and did his road work like he was pullin' a piano. He flicked a few jabs when sparring. Danced a little. (I think he only did that to please the crowd). Most of the time he just let his sparring partners whack away at him.

Ali would laugh and say that he put his wife in a room on the other side of the hotel from where he was staying. He said he didn't want to be tempted. I bet he gave in a few times.
I was there, Rog. And the word I got was that Ali was screwing everything that walked. That "other side of the hotel" is kinda like my ex-manager putting his girlfriend on the other side of the Olympic, from where is wife was sitting. Everybody makes mistakes in life, one of Ali's biggest was underestimating Ken Norton. The only guys that Norton had trouble with were bangers. Ali couldn't break an egg and had nothing to deal with Kenny's style. I know a lot of people that were put off by Ken Norton, thought he was a prick. Personally, I liked the guy, and I still do. I didn't really know the guy aside from the gym, and fighting on a couple cards he headlined, but we had a couple conversations and I was happy we did.

Im my opinion, Ken Norton OWNED Muhammad Ali. In all three fights, regardless of what the officials gave us.


-Rick Farris
Rick
Your assessment is right. Norton told everyone that he wasn't afraid of Ali's punch. That's why he walked through him. After Ali fought him the first time and lost,he knew he had to fight him again. I think if Ali could have eeked out a decision against him the first time,I don't think he would have fought him again.


Roger, I'm sure he'd have avoided Ken Norton had he gotten one of his "gift decisions". We never saw a rematch with Jimmy Young, did we? Ali was always the draw, so Ali always got the edges. He had a some great fights, and he had some stinkers, just like every fighter does. Special, yes he was. The "Greatest"?? I have to ask, compared to who???

People say society treated Ali unfairly, his forced hiatus, but what about Dempsey? Dempsey, with three years of ring rust loses the title to Tunney. In the rematch, Dempsey would have been the first man to regain the heavyweight title, not Patterson more than three decades later. Dempsey KOed Tunney in Philadelphia. Philly money was on Tunney. Dempsey looks like crap but floors Gene, the "Long Count", and Tunney retains his title.

I actually have a lot of respect for Ali, but only within the frame of what I know to be true.

-Rick

Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

Posted: 08 Mar 2009, 02:23
by Rick Farris
Hey Roger . . .

I know of your father's relationship with Al Capone. Capone loved Dempsey, but it was some Philly mobster that was behind Tunney. Had the fight been held in Chicago, things might have gone differently? It was said that Capone wanted to "help" Dempsey prior to the rematch, but that Jack respectfully declined the offer. In your travels did you ever hear of anything related to this situation? Your Grandfather would have still been alive when this match was held. To bad we can't channel some of these spirits.

-Rick

Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

Posted: 08 Mar 2009, 02:46
by geoffreysadao
Actually, Patterson gave Ali quite a bit of trouble in their second fight in 1972. Also, Patterson was on the short-end of a bad decision against Jimmy Ellis when they fought for Ellis' WBA Championship. If Patterson had gotten the decision, he would've been the first 3 time heavyweight champion.

The way I understood it, Patterson kept calling Ali "Clay". In a passive sort of way, he was trying belittle Ali.

By the time Ali and Patterson fought for the 2nd time in '72, it seemed like a lot of the animosity had worn off.
Rick Farris wrote:Rick and Rog, do you guys have any thoughts on the way Ali acted towards Patterson?
It always bugged me how in that one clip thats floating around on youtube, Ali stops by Floyds camp and starts calling him "The Rabbit".
Floyd just kinda shrugs it off but you can tell Alis embarrased him. Lotta clowns in the background laughing and giggling.
They say Floyd wouldnt call him Ali . Called him Clay etc. and Muhamed had an ax to grind.
Maybe, I dont know.
In the clip, I feel bad for floyd.He put up with some serious shit.
_____________________________________________________________________________________________________


Pug . . . Everybody always laughs and thinks Ali is so cool for how he would attempt to humiliate his opposition. Personally, I think that Ali was a very important international figure who made a lot of "statements" in an era where "statements" seemed to be important. Aside from that I believe he was really nothing more than an uneducated A-Hole who made an ass of himself as often as he proved himself a hero. Patterson was small, and basicly over-the-hill when he first fought Ali. I love Patterson, and believe that when he was young his speed and power were easily superior to that of Ali. However, I don't believe that Floyd at his best could have ever defeated the self-proclaimed "greatest". And although many of my era would be shocked to hear this, I doubt Ali would have come out on the winning end of a bout with the Dempsey that ate Jess Willard for lunch in 1919. Styles make fights, and everybody just assumes that Ali's style made fools of small punchers. They seem to forget what happened when he fought Frazier. Ali ate left hooks from old men, a young Dempsey's speed would have put his left fist and Ali's jaw, and when he did, Ali would have been in big trouble.

Of course, this is just my opinion. I do believe Ali was great in many ways, but not "The Greatest", especially when I see him hyping a fight with a huge underdog. When the guys Ali faced weren't so old, or so small, he kinda just was another heavyweight. A fine line seperates he and Frazier, Foreman and the many he was lucky to get the nod over, such as Jimmy Young.

Of course, my sixties generation contemporaries have built Muhammad Ali into something bigger than life. It's all about timing, I guess? And Bullshit, of course.

-Rick[/quote]

Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

Posted: 08 Mar 2009, 09:56
by kikibalt

Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

Posted: 08 Mar 2009, 11:36
by kikibalt
Cole's French dip restaurant revives a slice of the past

Image
Alex Gallardo / Los Angeles Times
Ethan Lipsitz and Amanda Lee eat at the century-old Cole’s, which reopened in December and retains original signs such as, “Ladies, kindly do your soliciting discreetly.”
The downtown L.A. eatery keeps its deliciously seedy atmosphere -- with reminders of gangsters, strippers and Prohibition -- and its rivalry with Philippe's. Its upscale attitude on cocktails is new.
By Steve Harvey

You won't find many restaurants that display photos of 1950s strippers. But Cole's, the dark, subterranean eatery that recently reopened near the corner of 6th and Main, believes in tradition.

"It wasn't that far to walk to see the girls performing," explained spokeswoman Joan McCraw, referring to the old Follies Theater.

Gangster Mickey Cohen "was dating one of those girls," she added. Cole's "was his hangout."

For a while it seemed as though the curtain had fallen on Cole's. It shut down in March 2007 after 99 years of business. What went wrong? Perhaps it was the depressed state of the neighborhood. Or maybe the owners violated the house rule printed on a dining room sign: "We do not extend credit to stockbrokers."

At one point during its shuttered period, a website carried this capsule review of Cole's by one diner:

"Pro: No lines. Con: It's closed."
Image
To the rescue came bar owner Cedd Moses, a fan of the eatery since he was a child. The son of artist Ed Moses, he and some other investors reopened Cole's last December and were careful to retain its original elements: bordello-red wallpaper, Tiffany glass lampshades over the mahogany bar, penny-tiled floor, an ancient time clock, and friendly reminders to customers.

"Ladies, kindly do your soliciting discreetly," one sign reads.

While Cole's can no longer claim to be the longest continuously operated cafe/saloon in the city, it's still arguing with Philippe the Original over who invented the French dip sandwich.

Cole's lore has it that the dish originated in 1908 when a customer with a bad case of sore gums asked for his sandwich to be lowered into the juice because the French roll was too crunchy for him. The sympathetic chef complied, word spread and soon this variation was even being ordered by folks who flossed regularly.

Philippe's, which opened the same year and later moved to its current location near Union Station, maintains that it invented the dip when a customer complained that his roll was stale and asked for it to be dunked. Or perhaps a chef dropped the roll into the juice in the roast pan and the customer said, what the heck, give it to me anyway. No one at Philippe's is quite sure.

And, as a city historian admitted to the L.A. Business Journal a few years ago, "We don't have a French dip department."

Oh well. Said Richard Binder, co-owner of Philippe's, "Who knows what happened 100 years ago? We're just happy to still be around."

Cole's occupies the bottom floor of the 10-story Pacific Electric Building, the city's tallest skyscraper in the early 1900s and for years the terminus for the Red Car trolley line, which clacked over more than 1,000 miles of track in Southern California.

Founder Henry Cole moved into the former headquarters of some horse-drawn streetcars. One of the first things he did was sprinkle sawdust on the floor.

Located near the financial center of the city, the place became a haunt for bankers, attorneys, newspaper types and politicians -- as well as more respectable folks.

Business really started booming when Cole opened a free check-cashing service, the city's first, in a cage at the back of the restaurant. The shrewd owner realized that customers would often be returning a portion of the cash to pay for their lunch and/or drinks.

His son Rawland managed the check-cashing business and developed a code to deal with possible bad-check passers. "Johnny," the son would call to a waiter, "did you get the prescription filled?" And the waiter would summon police to grab the suspect, who wasn't always a stockbroker.

Cole's vintage outdoor sign still displays the word "payroll," but the "checks cashed" part was removed long ago, lest new customers think the service is still offered. "We'd have a line around the block," pointed out manager Jana Green.

Prohibition, which dawned in 1919, was a bit of a problem. But the late Jimmy Barela, who tended bar there for 56 years, substituted bitters (at 3 cents a shot) and "near beer" (at a dime a glass) for the real stuff.

All that changed April 7, 1933, when President Roosevelt legalized beer. Barela told The Times years ago that "we sold 58 32-gallon kegs" on the day.

Though the furnishings of Cole's recall another era, Moses is hoping to attract loft dwellers and other new downtown residents with some upscale touches.

Spokeswoman McCraw, for instance, speaks of "elevating the cocktail experience" and "the perfect execution" of ice picks required for such classic alcoholic concoctions as Hemingway's Death in the Afternoon and the 1926 Cosmopolitan.

"We have real bartenders, not actor/bartenders," she added.

Too bad Mickey Cohen isn't around anymore. One can imagine the mobster admiring the handiwork of the bartenders with their ice picks.

[email protected]

Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

Posted: 08 Mar 2009, 12:20
by dagosd2000
Rick Farris wrote:Hey Roger . . .

I know of your father's relationship with Al Capone. Capone loved Dempsey, but it was some Philly mobster that was behind Tunney. Had the fight been held in Chicago, things might have gone differently? It was said that Capone wanted to "help" Dempsey prior to the rematch, but that Jack respectfully declined the offer. In your travels did you ever hear of anything related to this situation? Your Grandfather would have still been alive when this match was held. To bad we can't channel some of these spirits.

-Rick
Rick
From what my father told me,Capone never really pursued "fixing" that fight that much. He made so much money bootlegging,from prostitution, and illicit gambling with other "low profile" sporting events,it wasn't worth it to him to take the risk of trying to fix things at Soldier's Field. Rog

Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

Posted: 08 Mar 2009, 12:27
by dagosd2000
Frank
Bobby looked strong,maybe a little awkward,but he didn't fight after this did he? I talked to him a little. Didn't seem like he had any regrets. His wife was happy he stopped fighting. Your thoughts? Rog

Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

Posted: 08 Mar 2009, 12:31
by dagosd2000
kikibalt wrote:Cole's French dip restaurant revives a slice of the past

Image
Alex Gallardo / Los Angeles Times
Ethan Lipsitz and Amanda Lee eat at the century-old Cole’s, which reopened in December and retains original signs such as, “Ladies, kindly do your soliciting discreetly.”
The downtown L.A. eatery keeps its deliciously seedy atmosphere -- with reminders of gangsters, strippers and Prohibition -- and its rivalry with Philippe's. Its upscale attitude on cocktails is new.
By Steve Harvey

You won't find many restaurants that display photos of 1950s strippers. But Cole's, the dark, subterranean eatery that recently reopened near the corner of 6th and Main, believes in tradition.

"It wasn't that far to walk to see the girls performing," explained spokeswoman Joan McCraw, referring to the old Follies Theater.

Gangster Mickey Cohen "was dating one of those girls," she added. Cole's "was his hangout."

For a while it seemed as though the curtain had fallen on Cole's. It shut down in March 2007 after 99 years of business. What went wrong? Perhaps it was the depressed state of the neighborhood. Or maybe the owners violated the house rule printed on a dining room sign: "We do not extend credit to stockbrokers."

At one point during its shuttered period, a website carried this capsule review of Cole's by one diner:

"Pro: No lines. Con: It's closed."
Image
To the rescue came bar owner Cedd Moses, a fan of the eatery since he was a child. The son of artist Ed Moses, he and some other investors reopened Cole's last December and were careful to retain its original elements: bordello-red wallpaper, Tiffany glass lampshades over the mahogany bar, penny-tiled floor, an ancient time clock, and friendly reminders to customers.

"Ladies, kindly do your soliciting discreetly," one sign reads.

While Cole's can no longer claim to be the longest continuously operated cafe/saloon in the city, it's still arguing with Philippe the Original over who invented the French dip sandwich.

Cole's lore has it that the dish originated in 1908 when a customer with a bad case of sore gums asked for his sandwich to be lowered into the juice because the French roll was too crunchy for him. The sympathetic chef complied, word spread and soon this variation was even being ordered by folks who flossed regularly.

Philippe's, which opened the same year and later moved to its current location near Union Station, maintains that it invented the dip when a customer complained that his roll was stale and asked for it to be dunked. Or perhaps a chef dropped the roll into the juice in the roast pan and the customer said, what the heck, give it to me anyway. No one at Philippe's is quite sure.

And, as a city historian admitted to the L.A. Business Journal a few years ago, "We don't have a French dip department."

Oh well. Said Richard Binder, co-owner of Philippe's, "Who knows what happened 100 years ago? We're just happy to still be around."

Cole's occupies the bottom floor of the 10-story Pacific Electric Building, the city's tallest skyscraper in the early 1900s and for years the terminus for the Red Car trolley line, which clacked over more than 1,000 miles of track in Southern California.

Founder Henry Cole moved into the former headquarters of some horse-drawn streetcars. One of the first things he did was sprinkle sawdust on the floor.

Located near the financial center of the city, the place became a haunt for bankers, attorneys, newspaper types and politicians -- as well as more respectable folks.

Business really started booming when Cole opened a free check-cashing service, the city's first, in a cage at the back of the restaurant. The shrewd owner realized that customers would often be returning a portion of the cash to pay for their lunch and/or drinks.

His son Rawland managed the check-cashing business and developed a code to deal with possible bad-check passers. "Johnny," the son would call to a waiter, "did you get the prescription filled?" And the waiter would summon police to grab the suspect, who wasn't always a stockbroker.

Cole's vintage outdoor sign still displays the word "payroll," but the "checks cashed" part was removed long ago, lest new customers think the service is still offered. "We'd have a line around the block," pointed out manager Jana Green.

Prohibition, which dawned in 1919, was a bit of a problem. But the late Jimmy Barela, who tended bar there for 56 years, substituted bitters (at 3 cents a shot) and "near beer" (at a dime a glass) for the real stuff.

All that changed April 7, 1933, when President Roosevelt legalized beer. Barela told The Times years ago that "we sold 58 32-gallon kegs" on the day.

Though the furnishings of Cole's recall another era, Moses is hoping to attract loft dwellers and other new downtown residents with some upscale touches.

Spokeswoman McCraw, for instance, speaks of "elevating the cocktail experience" and "the perfect execution" of ice picks required for such classic alcoholic concoctions as Hemingway's Death in the Afternoon and the 1926 Cosmopolitan.

"We have real bartenders, not actor/bartenders," she added.

Too bad Mickey Cohen isn't around anymore. One can imagine the mobster admiring the handiwork of the bartenders with their ice picks.

[email protected]
Frank
Amanda is dancing in Long Beach in April. Any of these eateries near Long Beach? French dipped sandwiches don't exist in San Diego. Rog

Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

Posted: 08 Mar 2009, 12:45
by kikibalt
ONE-TWO PUNCH

By Earl Gustkey
2000

The list of NFL players who were also outstanding boxers is a short one.

In fact, it includes only one name.

Charlie Powell.

Please, don't even mention Ed "Too Tall" Jones or Mark Gastineau. Neither came close to the heavyweight rankings. Powell was a top-10 heavyweight. Some early in his career thought he might succeed Rocky Marciano as heavyweight champion.

Powell is on another short list: modern-era athletes who bypassed college and went from high school football to the NFL. You have Cookie Gilchrist, Eric Swann--and Charlie Powell.

He's 68 now, the owner of a South-Central business that refurbishes school buses and does machine-shop work for the aerospace industry. He also does plainclothes security work.

He's still trim and fit, still wearing his ring scars over both brows. You get that way when you've had fights with Muhammad Ali (then Cassius Clay), Floyd Patterson, Roy Harris, Nino Valdes and Mike DeJohn.

Powell was one of the great high school athletes in Southern California history at San Diego High, where he won 12 varsity letters. He ran 100 yards in 9.6 seconds and set a school shotput record.

He went from high school football to the San Francisco 49ers and, at 19, started at defensive end. In his first NFL game, he threw Detroit Lion quarterback Bobby Layne for 67 yards in losses.

Before that, UCLA recruited him. For which sport? Any one he wanted. San Jose State recruited him when NCAA boxing was in flower.

He was a 6-toot-3, 230-pound 18-year-old natural. But boxing was his first sport.

"As a 12-, 13-year-old kid during World War II, I was going to the Oakes Boys' Club on Marcy Avenue, sparring with 17- and 19-year-olds," he said.

"Some of them, I knocked them out."

He grew up following the boxing careers of San Diego neighbors Archie Moore, later a world light-heavyweight champion, and middleweight Charley Burley. He also fought forest fires and operated a brisk shoeshine business in downtown San Diego.

"I was shining shoes on a corner when it was announced the war was over," he said. "All of a sudden sailors started grabbing women off the sidewalks and throwing them into a fountain."

He grew up in a loving family of nine children in San Diego's Logan Heights neighborhood. His father, the late Elvin Powell, was a cement finisher and a maintenance worker at Del Mar racetrack.

Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

Posted: 08 Mar 2009, 12:56
by dagosd2000
kikibalt wrote:ONE-TWO PUNCH

By Earl Gustkey
2000

The list of NFL players who were also outstanding boxers is a short one.

In fact, it includes only one name.

Charlie Powell.

Please, don't even mention Ed "Too Tall" Jones or Mark Gastineau. Neither came close to the heavyweight rankings. Powell was a top-10 heavyweight. Some early in his career thought he might succeed Rocky Marciano as heavyweight champion.

Powell is on another short list: modern-era athletes who bypassed college and went from high school football to the NFL. You have Cookie Gilchrist, Eric Swann--and Charlie Powell.

He's 68 now, the owner of a South-Central business that refurbishes school buses and does machine-shop work for the aerospace industry. He also does plainclothes security work.

He's still trim and fit, still wearing his ring scars over both brows. You get that way when you've had fights with Muhammad Ali (then Cassius Clay), Floyd Patterson, Roy Harris, Nino Valdes and Mike DeJohn.

Powell was one of the great high school athletes in Southern California history at San Diego High, where he won 12 varsity letters. He ran 100 yards in 9.6 seconds and set a school shotput record.

He went from high school football to the San Francisco 49ers and, at 19, started at defensive end. In his first NFL game, he threw Detroit Lion quarterback Bobby Layne for 67 yards in losses.

Before that, UCLA recruited him. For which sport? Any one he wanted. San Jose State recruited him when NCAA boxing was in flower.

He was a 6-toot-3, 230-pound 18-year-old natural. But boxing was his first sport.

"As a 12-, 13-year-old kid during World War II, I was going to the Oakes Boys' Club on Marcy Avenue, sparring with 17- and 19-year-olds," he said.

"Some of them, I knocked them out."

He grew up following the boxing careers of San Diego neighbors Archie Moore, later a world light-heavyweight champion, and middleweight Charley Burley. He also fought forest fires and operated a brisk shoeshine business in downtown San Diego.

"I was shining shoes on a corner when it was announced the war was over," he said. "All of a sudden sailors started grabbing women off the sidewalks and throwing them into a fountain."

He grew up in a loving family of nine children in San Diego's Logan Heights neighborhood. His father, the late Elvin Powell, was a cement finisher and a maintenance worker at Del Mar racetrack.
Frank
I remember seeing Charlie and his brother Art(played for the Raiders) along with Archie Moore at community events in Logan Heights. That's before the neighborhood got caught up with grafitti,gangs,and drugs.

Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

Posted: 08 Mar 2009, 13:03
by kikibalt
dagosd2000 wrote:
kikibalt wrote:Cole's French dip restaurant revives a slice of the past

Image
Alex Gallardo / Los Angeles Times
Ethan Lipsitz and Amanda Lee eat at the century-old Cole’s, which reopened in December and retains original signs such as, “Ladies, kindly do your soliciting discreetly.”
The downtown L.A. eatery keeps its deliciously seedy atmosphere -- with reminders of gangsters, strippers and Prohibition -- and its rivalry with Philippe's. Its upscale attitude on cocktails is new.
By Steve Harvey

You won't find many restaurants that display photos of 1950s strippers. But Cole's, the dark, subterranean eatery that recently reopened near the corner of 6th and Main, believes in tradition.

"It wasn't that far to walk to see the girls performing," explained spokeswoman Joan McCraw, referring to the old Follies Theater.

Gangster Mickey Cohen "was dating one of those girls," she added. Cole's "was his hangout."

For a while it seemed as though the curtain had fallen on Cole's. It shut down in March 2007 after 99 years of business. What went wrong? Perhaps it was the depressed state of the neighborhood. Or maybe the owners violated the house rule printed on a dining room sign: "We do not extend credit to stockbrokers."

At one point during its shuttered period, a website carried this capsule review of Cole's by one diner:

"Pro: No lines. Con: It's closed."
Image
To the rescue came bar owner Cedd Moses, a fan of the eatery since he was a child. The son of artist Ed Moses, he and some other investors reopened Cole's last December and were careful to retain its original elements: bordello-red wallpaper, Tiffany glass lampshades over the mahogany bar, penny-tiled floor, an ancient time clock, and friendly reminders to customers.

"Ladies, kindly do your soliciting discreetly," one sign reads.

While Cole's can no longer claim to be the longest continuously operated cafe/saloon in the city, it's still arguing with Philippe the Original over who invented the French dip sandwich.

Cole's lore has it that the dish originated in 1908 when a customer with a bad case of sore gums asked for his sandwich to be lowered into the juice because the French roll was too crunchy for him. The sympathetic chef complied, word spread and soon this variation was even being ordered by folks who flossed regularly.

Philippe's, which opened the same year and later moved to its current location near Union Station, maintains that it invented the dip when a customer complained that his roll was stale and asked for it to be dunked. Or perhaps a chef dropped the roll into the juice in the roast pan and the customer said, what the heck, give it to me anyway. No one at Philippe's is quite sure.

And, as a city historian admitted to the L.A. Business Journal a few years ago, "We don't have a French dip department."

Oh well. Said Richard Binder, co-owner of Philippe's, "Who knows what happened 100 years ago? We're just happy to still be around."

Cole's occupies the bottom floor of the 10-story Pacific Electric Building, the city's tallest skyscraper in the early 1900s and for years the terminus for the Red Car trolley line, which clacked over more than 1,000 miles of track in Southern California.

Founder Henry Cole moved into the former headquarters of some horse-drawn streetcars. One of the first things he did was sprinkle sawdust on the floor.

Located near the financial center of the city, the place became a haunt for bankers, attorneys, newspaper types and politicians -- as well as more respectable folks.

Business really started booming when Cole opened a free check-cashing service, the city's first, in a cage at the back of the restaurant. The shrewd owner realized that customers would often be returning a portion of the cash to pay for their lunch and/or drinks.

His son Rawland managed the check-cashing business and developed a code to deal with possible bad-check passers. "Johnny," the son would call to a waiter, "did you get the prescription filled?" And the waiter would summon police to grab the suspect, who wasn't always a stockbroker.

Cole's vintage outdoor sign still displays the word "payroll," but the "checks cashed" part was removed long ago, lest new customers think the service is still offered. "We'd have a line around the block," pointed out manager Jana Green.

Prohibition, which dawned in 1919, was a bit of a problem. But the late Jimmy Barela, who tended bar there for 56 years, substituted bitters (at 3 cents a shot) and "near beer" (at a dime a glass) for the real stuff.

All that changed April 7, 1933, when President Roosevelt legalized beer. Barela told The Times years ago that "we sold 58 32-gallon kegs" on the day.

Though the furnishings of Cole's recall another era, Moses is hoping to attract loft dwellers and other new downtown residents with some upscale touches.

Spokeswoman McCraw, for instance, speaks of "elevating the cocktail experience" and "the perfect execution" of ice picks required for such classic alcoholic concoctions as Hemingway's Death in the Afternoon and the 1926 Cosmopolitan.

"We have real bartenders, not actor/bartenders," she added.

Too bad Mickey Cohen isn't around anymore. One can imagine the mobster admiring the handiwork of the bartenders with their ice picks.

[email protected]
Frank
Amanda is dancing in Long Beach in April. Any of these eateries near Long Beach? French dipped sandwiches don't exist in San Diego. Rog
No, Rog, they're both in downtown L.A.

Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

Posted: 08 Mar 2009, 14:04
by Rick Farris
dagosd2000 wrote:
kikibalt wrote:Cole's French dip restaurant revives a slice of the past

Image
Alex Gallardo / Los Angeles Times
Ethan Lipsitz and Amanda Lee eat at the century-old Cole’s, which reopened in December and retains original signs such as, “Ladies, kindly do your soliciting discreetly.”
The downtown L.A. eatery keeps its deliciously seedy atmosphere -- with reminders of gangsters, strippers and Prohibition -- and its rivalry with Philippe's. Its upscale attitude on cocktails is new.
By Steve Harvey

You won't find many restaurants that display photos of 1950s strippers. But Cole's, the dark, subterranean eatery that recently reopened near the corner of 6th and Main, believes in tradition.

"It wasn't that far to walk to see the girls performing," explained spokeswoman Joan McCraw, referring to the old Follies Theater.

Gangster Mickey Cohen "was dating one of those girls," she added. Cole's "was his hangout."

For a while it seemed as though the curtain had fallen on Cole's. It shut down in March 2007 after 99 years of business. What went wrong? Perhaps it was the depressed state of the neighborhood. Or maybe the owners violated the house rule printed on a dining room sign: "We do not extend credit to stockbrokers."

At one point during its shuttered period, a website carried this capsule review of Cole's by one diner:

"Pro: No lines. Con: It's closed."
Image
To the rescue came bar owner Cedd Moses, a fan of the eatery since he was a child. The son of artist Ed Moses, he and some other investors reopened Cole's last December and were careful to retain its original elements: bordello-red wallpaper, Tiffany glass lampshades over the mahogany bar, penny-tiled floor, an ancient time clock, and friendly reminders to customers.

"Ladies, kindly do your soliciting discreetly," one sign reads.

While Cole's can no longer claim to be the longest continuously operated cafe/saloon in the city, it's still arguing with Philippe the Original over who invented the French dip sandwich.

Cole's lore has it that the dish originated in 1908 when a customer with a bad case of sore gums asked for his sandwich to be lowered into the juice because the French roll was too crunchy for him. The sympathetic chef complied, word spread and soon this variation was even being ordered by folks who flossed regularly.

Philippe's, which opened the same year and later moved to its current location near Union Station, maintains that it invented the dip when a customer complained that his roll was stale and asked for it to be dunked. Or perhaps a chef dropped the roll into the juice in the roast pan and the customer said, what the heck, give it to me anyway. No one at Philippe's is quite sure.

And, as a city historian admitted to the L.A. Business Journal a few years ago, "We don't have a French dip department."

Oh well. Said Richard Binder, co-owner of Philippe's, "Who knows what happened 100 years ago? We're just happy to still be around."

Cole's occupies the bottom floor of the 10-story Pacific Electric Building, the city's tallest skyscraper in the early 1900s and for years the terminus for the Red Car trolley line, which clacked over more than 1,000 miles of track in Southern California.

Founder Henry Cole moved into the former headquarters of some horse-drawn streetcars. One of the first things he did was sprinkle sawdust on the floor.

Located near the financial center of the city, the place became a haunt for bankers, attorneys, newspaper types and politicians -- as well as more respectable folks.

Business really started booming when Cole opened a free check-cashing service, the city's first, in a cage at the back of the restaurant. The shrewd owner realized that customers would often be returning a portion of the cash to pay for their lunch and/or drinks.

His son Rawland managed the check-cashing business and developed a code to deal with possible bad-check passers. "Johnny," the son would call to a waiter, "did you get the prescription filled?" And the waiter would summon police to grab the suspect, who wasn't always a stockbroker.

Cole's vintage outdoor sign still displays the word "payroll," but the "checks cashed" part was removed long ago, lest new customers think the service is still offered. "We'd have a line around the block," pointed out manager Jana Green.

Prohibition, which dawned in 1919, was a bit of a problem. But the late Jimmy Barela, who tended bar there for 56 years, substituted bitters (at 3 cents a shot) and "near beer" (at a dime a glass) for the real stuff.

All that changed April 7, 1933, when President Roosevelt legalized beer. Barela told The Times years ago that "we sold 58 32-gallon kegs" on the day.

Though the furnishings of Cole's recall another era, Moses is hoping to attract loft dwellers and other new downtown residents with some upscale touches.

Spokeswoman McCraw, for instance, speaks of "elevating the cocktail experience" and "the perfect execution" of ice picks required for such classic alcoholic concoctions as Hemingway's Death in the Afternoon and the 1926 Cosmopolitan.

"We have real bartenders, not actor/bartenders," she added.

Too bad Mickey Cohen isn't around anymore. One can imagine the mobster admiring the handiwork of the bartenders with their ice picks.

[email protected]
Frank
Amanda is dancing in Long Beach in April. Any of these eateries near Long Beach? French dipped sandwiches don't exist in San Diego. Rog

Roger . . . Monica and I would like to see Amanda dance, if that is possible. Coles and Phillipe's are the best french dip sandwich places, but they are downtown L.A. Long Beach has undergone massive redevelopment in the past few decades and is actually kind of a cool place in areas of downtown, right off the harbor. French Dip sandwich places in Long Beach? Don't know.

-Rick

Remember this one Rick

Posted: 08 Mar 2009, 15:10
by Wildhawke11
I had this one saved in my old mail Rick :TU:



Johnny Flores was the best story teller I ever knew, and he had decades worth of experiences to share.

One of these stories was about he & former heavyweight champ Joe Louis. In the 50's, Joe Louis promoted boxing in Hollywood in a night club called the "Moulan Rouge". Flores was his matchmaker.

Johnny and Joe Louis flew to Mexico, where Louis was to be honored by somebody. Now I forget, if it was in Guadalajara or Mexico City, but Flores told of a place where their hosts took them one night. It was a club called "Uncle Sam's" and Flores said it was about the roughest place he'd ever seen. The clientel was made up of local gangsters and so intimidating was this place, Louis was uncomfortable about getting out of the cab. Johnny thought this was funny, Hell, it was Joe Louis and he's afraid to go into this Mexican night club.

Flores convinces him things will be alright and Joe reluctantly goes in. When they get inside, one of the drunk patrons immediatly recognizes the Brown Bomber and challenges him to a fight. The host was upset and called the proprietor over who was a friend and whispered something in his ear. The owner nods and within seconds the patron was grabbed and led away by bouncers.

By now they are seated and Louis is sweating, totally uncomfortable. The owner returns and assures the host that the trouble maker would no longer be a problem. Louis can't understand what they are saying in Spanish and asks Johnny what's being said. Flores knew Louis was uncomfortable and thought he'd have some fun with him. Flores said not to worry about anybody starting any trouble the rest of the night, they made an example out of the man.

Louis was really confused now, "what do you mean they made an example out of him?" Flores looked at Louis in the eye and said, "they took him out back and shot him". Of course, Flores didn't know what they did with the guy, but Louis was now sick to his stomach and had to leave. Johnny looked at Louis and said, "Relax Joe, any more trouble makers and they'll take 'em out back and handle it".

Louis said, "You mean they killed that guy just because of that?" Flores said "Yeah, but that's because he bothered Joe Louis, normally they just cut off a hand if a guy hits somebody, or cut off their tounge if they get too loud. It's pretty mild right now, but just wait until midnight, things really get wild."

Louis said, "Call a cab, I'm gettin' out of here! Oh and tell them thank you very much."

Flores told the story so well we were all rolling with laughter, of course, hearing it second hand from me isn't the same. However, I'm just wondering, did you ever hear of an "Uncle Sam's" in either Guadalajara or Mexico City????

Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

Posted: 08 Mar 2009, 15:18
by Dongee
dagosd2000 wrote:
kikibalt wrote:ONE-TWO PUNCH

By Earl Gustkey
2000

The list of NFL players who were also outstanding boxers is a short one.

In fact, it includes only one name.

Charlie Powell.

Please, don't even mention Ed "Too Tall" Jones or Mark Gastineau. Neither came close to the heavyweight rankings. Powell was a top-10 heavyweight. Some early in his career thought he might succeed Rocky Marciano as heavyweight champion.

Powell is on another short list: modern-era athletes who bypassed college and went from high school football to the NFL. You have Cookie Gilchrist, Eric Swann--and Charlie Powell.

He's 68 now, the owner of a South-Central business that refurbishes school buses and does machine-shop work for the aerospace industry. He also does plainclothes security work.

He's still trim and fit, still wearing his ring scars over both brows. You get that way when you've had fights with Muhammad Ali (then Cassius Clay), Floyd Patterson, Roy Harris, Nino Valdes and Mike DeJohn.

Powell was one of the great high school athletes in Southern California history at San Diego High, where he won 12 varsity letters. He ran 100 yards in 9.6 seconds and set a school shotput record.

He went from high school football to the San Francisco 49ers and, at 19, started at defensive end. In his first NFL game, he threw Detroit Lion quarterback Bobby Layne for 67 yards in losses.

Before that, UCLA recruited him. For which sport? Any one he wanted. San Jose State recruited him when NCAA boxing was in flower.

He was a 6-toot-3, 230-pound 18-year-old natural. But boxing was his first sport.

"As a 12-, 13-year-old kid during World War II, I was going to the Oakes Boys' Club on Marcy Avenue, sparring with 17- and 19-year-olds," he said.

"Some of them, I knocked them out."

He grew up following the boxing careers of San Diego neighbors Archie Moore, later a world light-heavyweight champion, and middleweight Charley Burley. He also fought forest fires and operated a brisk shoeshine business in downtown San Diego.

"I was shining shoes on a corner when it was announced the war was over," he said. "All of a sudden sailors started grabbing women off the sidewalks and throwing them into a fountain."

He grew up in a loving family of nine children in San Diego's Logan Heights neighborhood. His father, the late Elvin Powell, was a cement finisher and a maintenance worker at Del Mar racetrack.
Frank
I remember seeing Charlie and his brother Art(played for the Raiders) along with Archie Moore at community events in Logan Heights. That's before the neighborhood got caught up with grafitti,gangs,and drugs.
Fellas:

Happy to say that I made Charlie's first pro bout, almost 56 years to the day (3-7-53) in a humble four riounder then brought him back a month later in a six-round semi, both wins for the good looking prospect, at our Legion Stadium. Incidentally, San Diego high schools have a great history for producing standout athletes. It is the only California city that has produced FOUR Heisman trophy winners. And it will always be my adopted home town. Viva!

hap navarro

Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

Posted: 08 Mar 2009, 15:18
by Dongee
dagosd2000 wrote:
kikibalt wrote:ONE-TWO PUNCH

By Earl Gustkey
2000

The list of NFL players who were also outstanding boxers is a short one.

In fact, it includes only one name.

Charlie Powell.

Please, don't even mention Ed "Too Tall" Jones or Mark Gastineau. Neither came close to the heavyweight rankings. Powell was a top-10 heavyweight. Some early in his career thought he might succeed Rocky Marciano as heavyweight champion.

Powell is on another short list: modern-era athletes who bypassed college and went from high school football to the NFL. You have Cookie Gilchrist, Eric Swann--and Charlie Powell.

He's 68 now, the owner of a South-Central business that refurbishes school buses and does machine-shop work for the aerospace industry. He also does plainclothes security work.

He's still trim and fit, still wearing his ring scars over both brows. You get that way when you've had fights with Muhammad Ali (then Cassius Clay), Floyd Patterson, Roy Harris, Nino Valdes and Mike DeJohn.

Powell was one of the great high school athletes in Southern California history at San Diego High, where he won 12 varsity letters. He ran 100 yards in 9.6 seconds and set a school shotput record.

He went from high school football to the San Francisco 49ers and, at 19, started at defensive end. In his first NFL game, he threw Detroit Lion quarterback Bobby Layne for 67 yards in losses.

Before that, UCLA recruited him. For which sport? Any one he wanted. San Jose State recruited him when NCAA boxing was in flower.

He was a 6-toot-3, 230-pound 18-year-old natural. But boxing was his first sport.

"As a 12-, 13-year-old kid during World War II, I was going to the Oakes Boys' Club on Marcy Avenue, sparring with 17- and 19-year-olds," he said.

"Some of them, I knocked them out."

He grew up following the boxing careers of San Diego neighbors Archie Moore, later a world light-heavyweight champion, and middleweight Charley Burley. He also fought forest fires and operated a brisk shoeshine business in downtown San Diego.

"I was shining shoes on a corner when it was announced the war was over," he said. "All of a sudden sailors started grabbing women off the sidewalks and throwing them into a fountain."

He grew up in a loving family of nine children in San Diego's Logan Heights neighborhood. His father, the late Elvin Powell, was a cement finisher and a maintenance worker at Del Mar racetrack.
Frank
I remember seeing Charlie and his brother Art(played for the Raiders) along with Archie Moore at community events in Logan Heights. That's before the neighborhood got caught up with grafitti,gangs,and drugs.
Fellas:

Happy to say that I made Charlie's first pro bout, almost 56 years to the day (3-7-53) in a humble four riounder then brought him back a month later in a six-round semi, both wins for the good looking prospect, at our Legion Stadium. Incidentally, San Diego high schools have a great history for producing standout athletes. It is the only California city that has produced FOUR Heisman trophy winners. And it will always be my adopted home town. Viva!

hap navarro

Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

Posted: 08 Mar 2009, 15:32
by kikibalt
Rick Farris wrote:
dagosd2000 wrote:
kikibalt wrote:Cole's French dip restaurant revives a slice of the past

Image
Alex Gallardo / Los Angeles Times
Ethan Lipsitz and Amanda Lee eat at the century-old Cole’s, which reopened in December and retains original signs such as, “Ladies, kindly do your soliciting discreetly.”
The downtown L.A. eatery keeps its deliciously seedy atmosphere -- with reminders of gangsters, strippers and Prohibition -- and its rivalry with Philippe's. Its upscale attitude on cocktails is new.
By Steve Harvey

You won't find many restaurants that display photos of 1950s strippers. But Cole's, the dark, subterranean eatery that recently reopened near the corner of 6th and Main, believes in tradition.

"It wasn't that far to walk to see the girls performing," explained spokeswoman Joan McCraw, referring to the old Follies Theater.

Gangster Mickey Cohen "was dating one of those girls," she added. Cole's "was his hangout."

For a while it seemed as though the curtain had fallen on Cole's. It shut down in March 2007 after 99 years of business. What went wrong? Perhaps it was the depressed state of the neighborhood. Or maybe the owners violated the house rule printed on a dining room sign: "We do not extend credit to stockbrokers."

At one point during its shuttered period, a website carried this capsule review of Cole's by one diner:

"Pro: No lines. Con: It's closed."
Image
To the rescue came bar owner Cedd Moses, a fan of the eatery since he was a child. The son of artist Ed Moses, he and some other investors reopened Cole's last December and were careful to retain its original elements: bordello-red wallpaper, Tiffany glass lampshades over the mahogany bar, penny-tiled floor, an ancient time clock, and friendly reminders to customers.

"Ladies, kindly do your soliciting discreetly," one sign reads.

While Cole's can no longer claim to be the longest continuously operated cafe/saloon in the city, it's still arguing with Philippe the Original over who invented the French dip sandwich.

Cole's lore has it that the dish originated in 1908 when a customer with a bad case of sore gums asked for his sandwich to be lowered into the juice because the French roll was too crunchy for him. The sympathetic chef complied, word spread and soon this variation was even being ordered by folks who flossed regularly.

Philippe's, which opened the same year and later moved to its current location near Union Station, maintains that it invented the dip when a customer complained that his roll was stale and asked for it to be dunked. Or perhaps a chef dropped the roll into the juice in the roast pan and the customer said, what the heck, give it to me anyway. No one at Philippe's is quite sure.

And, as a city historian admitted to the L.A. Business Journal a few years ago, "We don't have a French dip department."

Oh well. Said Richard Binder, co-owner of Philippe's, "Who knows what happened 100 years ago? We're just happy to still be around."

Cole's occupies the bottom floor of the 10-story Pacific Electric Building, the city's tallest skyscraper in the early 1900s and for years the terminus for the Red Car trolley line, which clacked over more than 1,000 miles of track in Southern California.

Founder Henry Cole moved into the former headquarters of some horse-drawn streetcars. One of the first things he did was sprinkle sawdust on the floor.

Located near the financial center of the city, the place became a haunt for bankers, attorneys, newspaper types and politicians -- as well as more respectable folks.

Business really started booming when Cole opened a free check-cashing service, the city's first, in a cage at the back of the restaurant. The shrewd owner realized that customers would often be returning a portion of the cash to pay for their lunch and/or drinks.

His son Rawland managed the check-cashing business and developed a code to deal with possible bad-check passers. "Johnny," the son would call to a waiter, "did you get the prescription filled?" And the waiter would summon police to grab the suspect, who wasn't always a stockbroker.

Cole's vintage outdoor sign still displays the word "payroll," but the "checks cashed" part was removed long ago, lest new customers think the service is still offered. "We'd have a line around the block," pointed out manager Jana Green.

Prohibition, which dawned in 1919, was a bit of a problem. But the late Jimmy Barela, who tended bar there for 56 years, substituted bitters (at 3 cents a shot) and "near beer" (at a dime a glass) for the real stuff.

All that changed April 7, 1933, when President Roosevelt legalized beer. Barela told The Times years ago that "we sold 58 32-gallon kegs" on the day.

Though the furnishings of Cole's recall another era, Moses is hoping to attract loft dwellers and other new downtown residents with some upscale touches.

Spokeswoman McCraw, for instance, speaks of "elevating the cocktail experience" and "the perfect execution" of ice picks required for such classic alcoholic concoctions as Hemingway's Death in the Afternoon and the 1926 Cosmopolitan.

"We have real bartenders, not actor/bartenders," she added.

Too bad Mickey Cohen isn't around anymore. One can imagine the mobster admiring the handiwork of the bartenders with their ice picks.

[email protected]
Frank
Amanda is dancing in Long Beach in April. Any of these eateries near Long Beach? French dipped sandwiches don't exist in San Diego. Rog

Roger . . . Monica and I would like to see Amanda dance, if that is possible. Coles and Phillipe's are the best french dip sandwich places, but they are downtown L.A. Long Beach has undergone massive redevelopment in the past few decades and is actually kind of a cool place in areas of downtown, right off the harbor. French Dip sandwich places in Long Beach? Don't know.

-Rick
Rog....While you are in Long Beach go to The Blues Cafe and listen to some blues... :TU:

Blue Cafe
(562) 983-7111
210 The Promenade N, Long Beach, CA 90802
Cross Streets: Between E Broadway and E 3rd St

Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

Posted: 08 Mar 2009, 16:08
by kikibalt
dagosd2000 wrote:
Frank
Bobby looked strong,maybe a little awkward,but he didn't fight after this did he? I talked to him a little. Didn't seem like he had any regrets. His wife was happy he stopped fighting. Your thoughts? Rog
No, Rog, Bobby never did fight again, Bobby was really not as awkward as he looked in that fight, he haven't fought in 2-3 years, he run out of gas in the 3th round for sure... :oo .
Bobby was also not a born fighter, boxing was not in his heart, nothing like Tony, Tony loved to fight. Bobby had 44 fights between the age of 7 and 10 then didn't fight again until he turn pro at the age of 22, nobody, including me ever taught him how to fight, what he knew, he pick up on his own. I was happy when he called it a career..... :TU:

Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

Posted: 08 Mar 2009, 16:32
by Randyman
dagosd2000 wrote:
kikibalt wrote:Cole's French dip restaurant revives a slice of the past

Image
Alex Gallardo / Los Angeles Times
Ethan Lipsitz and Amanda Lee eat at the century-old Cole’s, which reopened in December and retains original signs such as, “Ladies, kindly do your soliciting discreetly.”
The downtown L.A. eatery keeps its deliciously seedy atmosphere -- with reminders of gangsters, strippers and Prohibition -- and its rivalry with Philippe's. Its upscale attitude on cocktails is new.
By Steve Harvey

You won't find many restaurants that display photos of 1950s strippers. But Cole's, the dark, subterranean eatery that recently reopened near the corner of 6th and Main, believes in tradition.

"It wasn't that far to walk to see the girls performing," explained spokeswoman Joan McCraw, referring to the old Follies Theater.

Gangster Mickey Cohen "was dating one of those girls," she added. Cole's "was his hangout."

For a while it seemed as though the curtain had fallen on Cole's. It shut down in March 2007 after 99 years of business. What went wrong? Perhaps it was the depressed state of the neighborhood. Or maybe the owners violated the house rule printed on a dining room sign: "We do not extend credit to stockbrokers."

At one point during its shuttered period, a website carried this capsule review of Cole's by one diner:

"Pro: No lines. Con: It's closed."
Image
To the rescue came bar owner Cedd Moses, a fan of the eatery since he was a child. The son of artist Ed Moses, he and some other investors reopened Cole's last December and were careful to retain its original elements: bordello-red wallpaper, Tiffany glass lampshades over the mahogany bar, penny-tiled floor, an ancient time clock, and friendly reminders to customers.

"Ladies, kindly do your soliciting discreetly," one sign reads.

While Cole's can no longer claim to be the longest continuously operated cafe/saloon in the city, it's still arguing with Philippe the Original over who invented the French dip sandwich.

Cole's lore has it that the dish originated in 1908 when a customer with a bad case of sore gums asked for his sandwich to be lowered into the juice because the French roll was too crunchy for him. The sympathetic chef complied, word spread and soon this variation was even being ordered by folks who flossed regularly.

Philippe's, which opened the same year and later moved to its current location near Union Station, maintains that it invented the dip when a customer complained that his roll was stale and asked for it to be dunked. Or perhaps a chef dropped the roll into the juice in the roast pan and the customer said, what the heck, give it to me anyway. No one at Philippe's is quite sure.

And, as a city historian admitted to the L.A. Business Journal a few years ago, "We don't have a French dip department."

Oh well. Said Richard Binder, co-owner of Philippe's, "Who knows what happened 100 years ago? We're just happy to still be around."

Cole's occupies the bottom floor of the 10-story Pacific Electric Building, the city's tallest skyscraper in the early 1900s and for years the terminus for the Red Car trolley line, which clacked over more than 1,000 miles of track in Southern California.

Founder Henry Cole moved into the former headquarters of some horse-drawn streetcars. One of the first things he did was sprinkle sawdust on the floor.

Located near the financial center of the city, the place became a haunt for bankers, attorneys, newspaper types and politicians -- as well as more respectable folks.

Business really started booming when Cole opened a free check-cashing service, the city's first, in a cage at the back of the restaurant. The shrewd owner realized that customers would often be returning a portion of the cash to pay for their lunch and/or drinks.

His son Rawland managed the check-cashing business and developed a code to deal with possible bad-check passers. "Johnny," the son would call to a waiter, "did you get the prescription filled?" And the waiter would summon police to grab the suspect, who wasn't always a stockbroker.

Cole's vintage outdoor sign still displays the word "payroll," but the "checks cashed" part was removed long ago, lest new customers think the service is still offered. "We'd have a line around the block," pointed out manager Jana Green.

Prohibition, which dawned in 1919, was a bit of a problem. But the late Jimmy Barela, who tended bar there for 56 years, substituted bitters (at 3 cents a shot) and "near beer" (at a dime a glass) for the real stuff.

All that changed April 7, 1933, when President Roosevelt legalized beer. Barela told The Times years ago that "we sold 58 32-gallon kegs" on the day.

Though the furnishings of Cole's recall another era, Moses is hoping to attract loft dwellers and other new downtown residents with some upscale touches.

Spokeswoman McCraw, for instance, speaks of "elevating the cocktail experience" and "the perfect execution" of ice picks required for such classic alcoholic concoctions as Hemingway's Death in the Afternoon and the 1926 Cosmopolitan.

"We have real bartenders, not actor/bartenders," she added.

Too bad Mickey Cohen isn't around anymore. One can imagine the mobster admiring the handiwork of the bartenders with their ice picks.

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Frank
Amanda is dancing in Long Beach in April. Any of these eateries near Long Beach? French dipped sandwiches don't exist in San Diego. Rog
Rog, think of the Italian Beef sandwiches that they serve in Chicago. A French Dip sandwich is very similar. Most of the places around town serve an almost generic version of the sandwich. Good but not great. At both Cole's and Philippe's the meat is still hand carved and roasted on the premises. A word to the wise to anyone going to Philippe's. Don't order the Potato Salad. It has to rank as the worse that I have ever eaten. Go for the Cole Slaw.

Randy