Classic American West Coast Boxing

[iskigoe]

NEW YOEK, Mar. 18.—Boxing learned in San Francisco that
great seconding team of "Spider" Kelly and Tim McGrath had
come to a bitter parting of the ways. The customers soon were to
see that which they little dreamed their eyes ever would
drink in: "Spider" Kelly in one corner behind a fighter,'Tim McGrath In the opposite angle, coaching and urging the enemy l

Much was made of the first advent of the pair as rival corner
men. It so happened that a long delayed grudge fight between
Frank Rafael and "Dutch" Thurston, was to come to board Kelly
to go behind Rafael, Tim to the "stops-running" for Dutch." They were the best middleweights of that day. Each had
acclaim for courage, tenacity all-around fighting ability. A
couple of tough hombres if ever stalked this earth.

was only natural that "Spider" would second Rafael. He
the brother of Heinie, the Spider's" cafe partner In the
tenderloin. As a reminder of the of fighting blood which
coursed through all Rafael blood lines, might I add that the "Spi-
der" and Heinie, one night, entered upon a heated argument
from different ends of their long bar. In sheer exasperation over
Rafael's boiling badinage, the Spider" suddenly came to the
conclusion that the world was too cramped while Heinie and
he were on the loose.

So, the shaggy-browed "Spider" reached In his drawer at his end
bar, jerked a ,six-shooter Into position and began blazing away at
his tantalizing partner. Heinie took this as a heinous social affront
and, reaching behind the bar at his end. picked up one champagne bottle after another and began pegging them at the Spider's" raven head. As they
delivered their volleys of glass and lead, they walked toward
each other with no more concern than they would have displayed in
a stroll on a pebbled beach. With a final, mighty heave of a
quart of Clique, he bashed the Spider:-" squarely between the
eyes, knocking him colder then an Eskimo's beezer.

"Spider" forgave Heinie from hospital bed remarking, in passing,
that "it was all my fault because of my bum marksmanship!
should of kill ya' Heinie," said the "Spider" with a Kid McCoy
grin.

Now back to "Dutch and Frank Rafael. whose brother Joe, an esthetic
dreamy artist and painter, worked with me in the art department of the San Francisco Examiner. A fighter, a tenderloin pub proprietor, a bewitching painter, fresh from Paris schools.

It was a 10-round fight, and fight is a meek, puny word for
They were a gory pair before half the distance had been traveled.
They seemed lungless since they didn't lake a long breath which
you could detect. They were men of iron which Frank Merriwell
might have wound up.

As for the "Spider" and Tim. there was little in the matter
outstanding seconding supremacy. The fight was too close to call
either your top man. Seated there, with my nose glued to the outer
edge of the canvassed platform, felt In my bones that If there was
to come a great "break" in this gripping duel, the "Spider" would
create It. You could read it in his blazing, Irish eyes, the all-seeing
orbs of a black panther.

Round after round, it was this man's and then that man's fight.
They staggered around under impacts, teetering like men whose
bellies had been pumped full lead. The sixth, the seventh, the
eighth, and what a bloody, bitter chukker that eighth had been !
With the ending bell of each round, "Spider" and McGrath
would leap Into the ring like frightened jack rabbits awakened
from a warm day's siesta.

Then they'd work like madmen bringing the dead back to life.
Men battered each other's hats down around their ears in abject
delirium. Coats had been flung toward the rafters and you could
walk on the jangled conversation.

As the bell bonged, ending the ninth, both "Dutch" and Frank turned In the same direction, headed for an unoccupied corner! Seeing their mistake through glazed eyes, each turned to rectify his blunder of direction and they
collided, swayed and then started to fall full length to the boor! As
they toppled, "Spider" caught his man and Tim his. Each wilted
human dragon-fly was a babe, in arms as he was lugged to his corner.

Then the "Spider" struck as I felt he would. At the 10-second
warning before the final bell, the Spider" went behind Rafael,
placed his arms under Frank's, lifted him to his feet and carried
him across the ring and stood him. still "snoring," directly in front of
"Dutch." "Spider" held Rafael erect. Thurston looked up through
swollen eyes and shuddered as he was seeing the wraith of his
great-grandfather. Then he mumbled:

"SPIDER," I CAN'T GO ON!
I'VE HAD A BELLY FULL!
YOUSE TWO GUYS WiN !

[dagosd2000]

Yeah, Rog, like that old saying, "What I used to do all night, now take me all night to do "... [/quote]

Frank
I remember they were interviewing Ali not too long ago. Like a lot of fighters he could never quench his appetite for the ladies. When asked about that now,he smiled. The effects of the Parkinson's has eliminated that quest.
Ali grinned standing next to his wife Lonnie."Don't have to worry about that anymore."
I'm looking forward to that day too.

[dagosd2000]

NEW YOEK, Mar. 18.—Boxing learned in San Francisco that
great seconding team of "Spider" Kelly and Tim McGrath had
come to a bitter parting of the ways. The customers soon were to
see that which they little dreamed their eyes ever would
drink in: "Spider" Kelly in one corner behind a fighter,'Tim McGrath In the opposite angle, coaching and urging the enemy l

Much was made of the first advent of the pair as rival corner
men. It so happened that a long delayed grudge fight between
Frank Rafael and "Dutch" Thurston, was to come to board Kelly
to go behind Rafael, Tim to the "stops-running" for Dutch." They were the best middleweights of that day. Each had
acclaim for courage, tenacity all-around fighting ability. A
couple of tough hombres if ever stalked this earth.

was only natural that "Spider" would second Rafael. He
the brother of Heinie, the Spider's" cafe partner In the
tenderloin. As a reminder of the of fighting blood which
coursed through all Rafael blood lines, might I add that the "Spi-
der" and Heinie, one night, entered upon a heated argument
from different ends of their long bar. In sheer exasperation over
Rafael's boiling badinage, the Spider" suddenly came to the
conclusion that the world was too cramped while Heinie and
he were on the loose.

So, the shaggy-browed "Spider" reached In his drawer at his end
bar, jerked a ,six-shooter Into position and began blazing away at
his tantalizing partner. Heinie took this as a heinous social affront
and, reaching behind the bar at his end. picked up one champagne bottle after another and began pegging them at the Spider's" raven head. As they
delivered their volleys of glass and lead, they walked toward
each other with no more concern than they would have displayed in
a stroll on a pebbled beach. With a final, mighty heave of a
quart of Clique, he bashed the Spider:-" squarely between the
eyes, knocking him colder then an Eskimo's beezer.

"Spider" forgave Heinie from hospital bed remarking, in passing,
that "it was all my fault because of my bum marksmanship!
should of kill ya' Heinie," said the "Spider" with a Kid McCoy
grin.

Now back to "Dutch and Frank Rafael. whose brother Joe, an esthetic
dreamy artist and painter, worked with me in the art department of the San Francisco Examiner. A fighter, a tenderloin pub proprietor, a bewitching painter, fresh from Paris schools.

It was a 10-round fight, and fight is a meek, puny word for
They were a gory pair before half the distance had been traveled.
They seemed lungless since they didn't lake a long breath which
you could detect. They were men of iron which Frank Merriwell
might have wound up.

As for the "Spider" and Tim. there was little in the matter
outstanding seconding supremacy. The fight was too close to call
either your top man. Seated there, with my nose glued to the outer
edge of the canvassed platform, felt In my bones that If there was
to come a great "break" in this gripping duel, the "Spider" would
create It. You could read it in his blazing, Irish eyes, the all-seeing
orbs of a black panther.

Round after round, it was this man's and then that man's fight.
They staggered around under impacts, teetering like men whose
bellies had been pumped full lead. The sixth, the seventh, the
eighth, and what a bloody, bitter chukker that eighth had been !
With the ending bell of each round, "Spider" and McGrath
would leap Into the ring like frightened jack rabbits awakened
from a warm day's siesta.

Then they'd work like madmen bringing the dead back to life.
Men battered each other's hats down around their ears in abject
delirium. Coats had been flung toward the rafters and you could
walk on the jangled conversation.

As the bell bonged, ending the ninth, both "Dutch" and Frank turned In the same direction, headed for an unoccupied corner! Seeing their mistake through glazed eyes, each turned to rectify his blunder of direction and they
collided, swayed and then started to fall full length to the boor! As
they toppled, "Spider" caught his man and Tim his. Each wilted
human dragon-fly was a babe, in arms as he was lugged to his corner.

Then the "Spider" struck as I felt he would. At the 10-second
warning before the final bell, the Spider" went behind Rafael,
placed his arms under Frank's, lifted him to his feet and carried
him across the ring and stood him. still "snoring," directly in front of
"Dutch." "Spider" held Rafael erect. Thurston looked up through
swollen eyes and shuddered as he was seeing the wraith of his
great-grandfather. Then he mumbled:

"SPIDER," I CAN'T GO ON!
I'VE HAD A BELLY FULL!
YOUSE TWO GUYS WiN !

Another great post Kevin. Being a teacher in public school,it depresses me to know that if I ran that story by my kids,not only would they not be interested,they'd laugh at it. Yeh Pal. Guys like us on the thread need to stick together. Are numbers are dwindling. I feel like Custer. The Indians are circling the wagons.

[dagosd2000]

Maria and our son Ramon

[iskigoe]

Thanks Roger,

I was thinking, it is a good chance our grandfather knew each other

[dagosd2000]

Thanks Roger,

I was thinking, it is a good chance our grandfather knew each other

Hype and Diamond Joe would have brought the world to its knees.
Kevin,it's a possibilty. At Diamond Joe's speak easy,guys would come in like Al Jolson,Al Capone,Joe Kennedy,Ruth Etting,and Damon Runyon. Those are just the guys I'm sure about.

[iskigoe]

Roger,

I would like to see a pic of your grand father.

As soon I will post some of my daughters art. She is only eight but shows great promise. More than one art teacher has said she has an amazing use of color.


KI

[dagosd2000]

Diamond Joe eating spaghetti in the Bella Napoli. The kid next to the dog is my dad. The guy is gangster Tony"Mops" Volpe

[iskigoe]

Great stuff. Im going to look him up on Newspaper archives.
I have been looking up info on a friend of mines grand uncle
Bram stoker. My friend Dacre Stoker has just written the sequel
to Dracula. Newspaper archives is a great history class.

Ki

[dagosd2000]

"I don't know." Standard reply

[iskigoe]

Roger,

I see the name Joe Kennedy in some of Hype' things can you
tell me who he is? His name does not come up on googled.
Hype was also a good friend of AL Jolson and his father.

ki

[dagosd2000]

Roger,

I see the name Joe Kennedy in some of Hype' things can you
tell me who he is? His name does not come up on googled.
Hype was also a good friend of AL Jolson and his father.

ki

Joe Kennedy Sr. was JFK's dad. Joe Kennedy would run booze from Cuba and sell it to Diamond Joe to put in his speak easys. I almost forgot. Jack Dempsey was a frequent visitor to the Bella Napoli. It's alleged that Capone sat with the Manassa Mauler over a plate of spaghetti in the Bella Napoli and tried to work out a "deal" on Jack's fight with Tunney.

[The Kid]

Hi Everyone,

Rick Farris, Mr Baltazar and dagosd. I finally signed up to chat a bit. Dont know how much time I will be able to invest with you all. I enjoy what I am reading and am interested in dagosd comments since he is from San Diego like myself. 15th & E was the place where all of us from San Diego would see the fights on Friday night and also were I first saw those lighting fast hand of Rick Farris!

[kikibalt]

Hi Everyone,

Rick Farris, Mr Baltazar and dagosd. I finally signed up to chat a bit. Dont know how much time I will be able to invest with you all. I enjoy what I am reading and am interested in dagosd comments since he is from San Diego like myself. 15th & E was the place where all of us from San Diego would see the fights on Friday night and also were I first saw those lighting fast hand of Rick Farris!

Kid, you seen Rick fight?

[iskigoe]

the englewood economist

APRIL 14, 1920


THOMPSON WINS
REPUBLICAN
COMMITTEE
Administration Candidates Are
Elected In Local Wards
The Republican party organization
in Cook county was taken over bodily—
almost unanimously—yesterday
by the city hall organization headed
by Mayor Thompson and controlled
by Fred Lundin.
Every ward of the thirty-five ir.
Chicago was won, and decisively so,
by the city hall except the Nineteenth,
where a solidified Italian vote
unhorsed Chris Mamer and elected
"Diamond" Joe Esposito.
The Deneen organization was put
oxit of commission. It failed to elect
Roy 0. West in the Sixth ward and
lost out all along the line, although
Esposito was classified as a Deneen
man.

[bennie]

Hi Everyone,

Rick Farris, Mr Baltazar and dagosd. I finally signed up to chat a bit. Dont know how much time I will be able to invest with you all. I enjoy what I am reading and am interested in dagosd comments since he is from San Diego like myself. 15th & E was the place where all of us from San Diego would see the fights on Friday night and also were I first saw those lighting fast hand of Rick Farris!

Hi The Kid (cool username). I am a bit sluggish at the moment - make that punching through water - so new knowledgeable blood is brilliant and especially welcome.
This will always be a friendly thread, open to everyone.

[scartissue]

Hi Everyone,

Rick Farris, Mr Baltazar and dagosd. I finally signed up to chat a bit. Dont know how much time I will be able to invest with you all. I enjoy what I am reading and am interested in dagosd comments since he is from San Diego like myself. 15th & E was the place where all of us from San Diego would see the fights on Friday night and also were I first saw those lighting fast hand of Rick Farris!

Hi The Kid (cool username). I am a bit sluggish at the moment - make that punching through water - so new knowledgeable blood is brilliant and especially welcome.
This will always be a friendly thread, open to everyone.

Bennie, good to see you in action again.

Scartissue

[bennie]

Hi Everyone,

Rick Farris, Mr Baltazar and dagosd. I finally signed up to chat a bit. Dont know how much time I will be able to invest with you all. I enjoy what I am reading and am interested in dagosd comments since he is from San Diego like myself. 15th & E was the place where all of us from San Diego would see the fights on Friday night and also were I first saw those lighting fast hand of Rick Farris!

Hi The Kid (cool username). I am a bit sluggish at the moment - make that punching through water - so new knowledgeable blood is brilliant and especially welcome.
This will always be a friendly thread, open to everyone.

Bennie, good to see you in action again.

Scartissue

Cheers, Dan. Appreciate your (and everyone's) kind words.

[Rick Farris]

Hi Everyone,

Rick Farris, Mr Baltazar and dagosd. I finally signed up to chat a bit. Dont know how much time I will be able to invest with you all. I enjoy what I am reading and am interested in dagosd comments since he is from San Diego like myself. 15th & E was the place where all of us from San Diego would see the fights on Friday night and also were I first saw those lighting fast hand of Rick Farris!

Kid, you seen Rick fight?

I knew somebody was watching . Welcome, Kid!
When I fought in S.D. I was far from my best, but your words are flattering and I thank you.


-Rick Farris

[kikibalt]

Speaking of great under cards of the past, check out this article from the Nate Collins Vs. Andy Heilman fight from nearly 39 years ago in Oakland. Both Jesus Pimental and Frankie Crawford fighting on the undercard as a favor to promoter Don Chargin. Either of these fights could have stole the show but the rematch between Collins and Heilman was a brawl bell to bell!
Bruce

[dagosd2000]

Hi Everyone,

Rick Farris, Mr Baltazar and dagosd. I finally signed up to chat a bit. Dont know how much time I will be able to invest with you all. I enjoy what I am reading and am interested in dagosd comments since he is from San Diego like myself. 15th & E was the place where all of us from San Diego would see the fights on Friday night and also were I first saw those lighting fast hand of Rick Farris!

Kid
Welcome aboard. Jerome's Furniture Warehouse is where the Coliseum was. Building is the same though. Rog.

[Rick Farris]

Speaking of great under cards of the past, check out this article from the Nate Collins Vs. Andy Heilman fight from nearly 39 years ago in Oakland. Both Jesus Pimental and Frankie Crawford fighting on the undercard as a favor to promoter Don Chargin. Either of these fights could have stole the show but the rematch between Collins and Heilman was a brawl bell to bell!
Bruce

Bruce . . . Thanks for this great post and article. I met Eddie Muller, the writer of the story, who was an aquaintence of my handler, Mel Epstein. I remember him covering the Northern Cal area. Nate Collins was a good one, and Heilman was too, as tough as they come. Don Chargin is an old school master promoter/matchmaker. He put together some great main events and supported them with an equally strong undercard.

I had the benefit of fighting on a few of those big ones that Chargin put together, as well as Parnassus. These guy knew the true formula. The first time I fought at the Forum, on the undercard of the Napoles-Backus-2 welter title card, Parnassus also had two great flyweights on the card, Erbito Salavaria vs. Halimi Gutierrez, and had an up & coming Arturo Zuniga featured, as well. I won a five-rounder in the crowd chaser, although not listed in Boxrec. I have documentation for the bout. Chargin did some great things at the Olympic, as did Don Fraser when putting together the weekly cards for the Forum Boxing Club at various venues around L.A. in the early 70's.

By the way, the article points out that Frankie Crawford's opponent was one Jose Luis Martinez. This was a rematch of their bout on the undercard of the Ramos-Rojas bout I mentioned earlier on this topic. I fought that night too and have to share what happened in the first Crawford-Martinez bout. The card was televised, as always on thursday night. I open the show, win a decision. Mando Muniz is up next in a ten rounder. He wins by KO. Then it's Crawford in the TV ten, followed by Ramos-Rojas, off TV. In the Crawford fight, it's a close match going into the final round. I think Crawford is winning, but close. At the end of the 10th, just as the final bell rings, Crawford fires a short, jolting hook to the chin which flattens Martinez. Of course, the crowd booes, but the energy in the house for the Ramos fight was so strong, everybody enjoyed seeing the guy leveled, even with a late blow. Crawford was declared the winner by decision. And nothing really came of the late blow, except the rematch, which is written about above.

-Rick Farris

[The Kid]

Hi Rog,

Thats the place where I grew up. You saw alot of the bouts that I saw, like Famoso Gomez beating Art Hafey in Tijuana at the bullring. Wow! I never meet anyone who saw that. You might have seen me box. Do you recall Manuel Lujan, Ruben Castillo during that time?

The Kid

[dagosd2000]

the englewood economist

APRIL 14, 1920


THOMPSON WINS
REPUBLICAN
COMMITTEE
Administration Candidates Are
Elected In Local Wards
The Republican party organization
in Cook county was taken over bodily—
almost unanimously—yesterday
by the city hall organization headed
by Mayor Thompson and controlled
by Fred Lundin.
Every ward of the thirty-five ir.
Chicago was won, and decisively so,
by the city hall except the Nineteenth,
where a solidified Italian vote
unhorsed Chris Mamer and elected
"Diamond" Joe Esposito.
The Deneen organization was put
oxit of commission. It failed to elect
Roy 0. West in the Sixth ward and
lost out all along the line, although
Esposito was classified as a Deneen
man.

Kevin
Diamond Joe named his youngest son(my uncle Chuck) after Sen. Charles Deneen. Diamond Joe winning the 19th Ward was a bad omen for him. Mayor Big Bill Thompson and Capone had a lock on all the other wards except in 19th. From what my father told me,Diamond Joe(his father) wouldn't have presented a problem. Seriously, the reason my grandfather was killed is still a mystery. Rog

[dagosd2000]

Hi Rog,

Thats the place where I grew up. You saw alot of the bouts that I saw, like Famoso Gomez beating Art Hafey in Tijuana at the bullring. Wow! I never meet anyone who saw that. You might have seen me box. Do you recall Manuel Lujan, Ruben Castillo during that time?

The Kid

I sure do. Mind telling us your name?Rog