BoxRec

observer1 wrote:

banjo wrote:Don't you think it's a bit daft though that we live in an age where people still believe the words written in a book by men many centuries ago over those of scientists who've proved where we come from?

Des, Britain should never have involved itself in either world war, only the Falklands was legit come to think of it.

Firstly, I don't know why people think Religion and Science are exclusive from each other. Many scientists themselves have taken inspiration from the Quran.

Whether it's the development of the Human Embryo, the big bang and the expanding universe, the daily cycle, properties of Iron or even the ratio of sea and land surface. It's all in the Quran. And don't forget, scientists only discovered these scientific facts recently.

But ofcourse, it's not mentioned in Daily Mail or in any of the tabloids, so im sure the awareness of this will be pretty low

Also banjo, Scientists "proved where we came from?", you mean the 'Evolution theory'? Well, that's exactly what it is, a theory.

What a load of nonsense. The Quran is a dreadful pseudo-science. Modern Islamists have tried to use Quranic verses to 'prove' Islam, but the logic is extremely flawed:

EG http://wikiislam.com/wiki/Scientific_er ... _the_Quran

i agree with him standing u for what he belives in but what he belives in i s a load of bollocks

observer1 wrote:

banjo wrote:Don't you think it's a bit daft though that we live in an age where people still believe the words written in a book by men many centuries ago over those of scientists who've proved where we come from?

Des, Britain should never have involved itself in either world war, only the Falklands was legit come to think of it.

Firstly, I don't know why people think Religion and Science are exclusive from each other. Many scientists themselves have taken inspiration from the Quran.

Whether it's the development of the Human Embryo, the big bang and the expanding universe, the daily cycle, properties of Iron or even the ratio of sea and land surface. It's all in the Quran. And don't forget, scientists only discovered these scientific facts recently.

But ofcourse, it's not mentioned in Daily Mail or in any of the tabloids, so im sure the awareness of this will be pretty low

Also banjo, Scientists "proved where we came from?", you mean the 'Evolution theory'? Well, that's exactly what it is, a theory.

You have your beliefs I'll respect that, I have mine I guess we'll just agree to disagree then.

banjo wrote:

observer1 wrote:

banjo wrote:Don't you think it's a bit daft though that we live in an age where people still believe the words written in a book by men many centuries ago over those of scientists who've proved where we come from?

Des, Britain should never have involved itself in either world war, only the Falklands was legit come to think of it.

Firstly, I don't know why people think Religion and Science are exclusive from each other. Many scientists themselves have taken inspiration from the Quran.

Whether it's the development of the Human Embryo, the big bang and the expanding universe, the daily cycle, properties of Iron or even the ratio of sea and land surface. It's all in the Quran. And don't forget, scientists only discovered these scientific facts recently.

But ofcourse, it's not mentioned in Daily Mail or in any of the tabloids, so im sure the awareness of this will be pretty low

Also banjo, Scientists "proved where we came from?", you mean the 'Evolution theory'? Well, that's exactly what it is, a theory.

You have your beliefs I'll respect that, I have mine I guess we'll just agree to disagree then.

i have to agree with banjo but you are correct evolution does have holes in it

reggaereggae wrote:
yes I have. And your analogy is ridiculous, I'm talking about theology. Wikipedia is not perfect but

Yes you are right, Wikipedia is far from perfect, especially if you use it as a source to back up your argument on theology.

observer1 wrote:

banjo wrote:Don't you think it's a bit daft though that we live in an age where people still believe the words written in a book by men many centuries ago over those of scientists who've proved where we come from?

Des, Britain should never have involved itself in either world war, only the Falklands was legit come to think of it.

Firstly, I don't know why people think Religion and Science are exclusive from each other. Many scientists themselves have taken inspiration from the Quran.

Whether it's the development of the Human Embryo, the big bang and the expanding universe, the daily cycle, properties of Iron or even the ratio of sea and land surface. It's all in the Quran. And don't forget, scientists only discovered these scientific facts recently.

But ofcourse, it's not mentioned in Daily Mail or in any of the tabloids, so im sure the awareness of this will be pretty low

Also banjo, Scientists "proved where we came from?", you mean the 'Evolution theory'? Well, that's exactly what it is, a theory.

Of course it's a theory numbnuts, there are only theories in science, no facts. What divides science from religion is that all hypotheses are only true until they are proven incorrect, unlike religion which retreats behind pseudoibabble and blind faith whenever it's nonsense is exposed. In science, a new theory takes it's place.

Science may not have explanations for everything, but it has explanations for 99% of all the physical phenomena in our universe, a hell of a lot more than any religion can lay claim to.

reggaereggae wrote:

observer1 wrote:

banjo wrote:Don't you think it's a bit daft though that we live in an age where people still believe the words written in a book by men many centuries ago over those of scientists who've proved where we come from?

Des, Britain should never have involved itself in either world war, only the Falklands was legit come to think of it.

Firstly, I don't know why people think Religion and Science are exclusive from each other. Many scientists themselves have taken inspiration from the Quran.

Whether it's the development of the Human Embryo, the big bang and the expanding universe, the daily cycle, properties of Iron or even the ratio of sea and land surface. It's all in the Quran. And don't forget, scientists only discovered these scientific facts recently.

But ofcourse, it's not mentioned in Daily Mail or in any of the tabloids, so im sure the awareness of this will be pretty low

Also banjo, Scientists "proved where we came from?", you mean the 'Evolution theory'? Well, that's exactly what it is, a theory.

What a load of nonsense. The Quran is a dreadful pseudo-science. Modern Islamists have tried to use Quranic verses to 'prove' Islam, but the logic is extremely flawed:

EG http://wikiislam.om/wiki/Scientific_errors_in_the_Quran

And using links to a completely biased anti-Islam website with no credibility whatsoever is NOT flawed? If you want to back up your opinion (however flawed it may be) about Observer's points about science and scriptures then you should provide links to respected scientists saying so instead of just returning to your biased website that often seems to distort texts beyond recognition. I've looked at that site and some of the points raised there have more holes than a sieve. It's easy to get duped buy such sites if you don't have good background knowledge of the subject being discussed. Anyway, I just don't know why this thread keeps on going off topic. Let me just remind you that it was supposed to be about British boxing and a boxer joining a minority extremist group and demonstrating against our troops. I for one, don't support Small in demonstrating against our troops in the way it was done, especially the timing of the demonstrations. It's worth noting that this is a boxing forum and not some missionary gathering.

reggaereggae wrote: What a load of nonsense. The Quran is a dreadful pseudo-science. Modern Islamists have tried to use Quranic verses to 'prove' Islam, but the logic is extremely flawed:

EG http://wikiislam.com/wiki/Scientific_er ... _the_Quran

reggaereggae wrote:yes I have. And your analogy is ridiculous, I'm talking about theology. Wikipedia is not perfect but

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_and_ ... e_Qur.27an

So you really going to use a random wikipedia article as your argument then (not that u even have one)?

reggaereggae wrote:

Des1 wrote:

reggaereggae wrote:All organized religion is BS, but Islam takes the biscuit for lack of tolerance, religiously-motivated violence in this current age.

The Koran also allows slavery amongst other inhumane practices.

No, I dont think that you can tarnish everyone who practises a religion, thats like me tarnishing all Irish Catholic's with the IRA and their views and of course that would be wrong of me.

Have you read the Quran?

yes I have. And your analogy is ridiculous, I'm talking about theology. Wikipedia is not perfect but

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_and_ ... e_Qur.27an

So you really have read the Quran have you? You claim my analogy is ridiculous and you use Wikipedia to support your views? Yes Wikipedia is not perfect and you have deliberately sought out negative aspects of the Quran to put more weight behind your views but you see, we could do that with anything or any Holy book. As your a fan of Wikipedia we also can look up Christianity and slavery in the Bible. You see, what you search for on the net you will likely find it, anything.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Bible_and_slavery
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christianity_and_slavery
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judaism_and_slavery
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_C ... nd_slavery

Also, on your Wikipedia it states 'Throughout most of human history, slavery has been practiced and accepted by many cultures and religions around the world'

The Quran is, according to Muslims, the ACTUAL and literal word of God. So therefore, everything within it should be followed to the letter according to Islam. So for you people to accuse me of selective quoting and saying I "deliberately sought out negative aspects of the Quran" is a meaningless statement.

So every bit of the Koran is as legitimate as another; and it sits as one standard.

So, if you are stating any part of the Koran as being 'negative; would mean you are saying God's word is negative to a Muslim, and apart from the fact you should be put to death according to many Islamic believers, your argument is absolutely redundant.

Some more Kuranic proclamations:

"Men are the maintainers of women because Allah has made some of them to excel others and because they spend out of their property; the good women are therefore obedient, guarding the unseen as Allah has guarded; and (as to) those on whose part you fear desertion, admonish them, and leave them alone in the sleeping-places and beat them; then if they obey you, do not seek a way against them; surely Allah is High, Great."

Qur'an 4:34


As for the thief, both male and female, cut off their hands. It is the reward of their own deeds, an exemplary punishment from Allah. Allah is Mighty, Wise."

Qur'an 5:38

"O Prophet! We have made lawful to thee thy wives to whom thou hast paid their dowers; and those whom thy right hand possesses out of the prisoners of war whom Allah has assigned to thee; and daughters of thy paternal uncles and aunts, and daughters of thy maternal uncles and aunts, who migrated (from Makka) with thee; and any believing woman who dedicates her soul to the Prophet if the Prophet wishes to wed her;- this only for thee, and not for the Believers (at large); We know what We have appointed for them as to their wives and the captives whom their right hands possess;- in order that there should be no difficulty for thee. And Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful."

"Fight those who do not believe in Allah, nor in the latter day, nor do they prohibit what Allah and His Messenger have prohibited, nor follow the religion of truth, out of those who have been given the Book, until they pay the tax in acknowledgment of superiority and they are in a state of subjection."

Qur'an 9:29

ETC ETC

Once again, you are just posting incorrectly translated/interpreted verses from the Quran obtained online from an anti-Islam website with no credibility whatsoever. As I have said before these type of websites can easily dupe someone without knowledge into believing all sorts of things by using clever editing so why you keep on resorting to this nonsense especially since it has got nothing to do with British boxing or the subject being discussed I just don't know. If you so are so interested in the Quran then just PM me and I will point you in the right direction to learn more about it. To get a better understanding of Islam, Christianity, Judaism, Budhism and Hinduism etc. I had to spend years doing proper research for my theology and comparative religion thesis. Just plucking quotes from the net is not proper research because you are relying on a website to provide you with correct and accurate information which in your case is not happening. I'm sure if users want to read about religion they would not come to the British & Irish boxing forum. Please stick to the topic and not resort to things that you don't seem to know much about. This also applies to others who seem to change boxing threads into some sort of religious platform. Thank you!

Reggae, you don't know what you're talking about.

If you want to discuss it open mindedly, hit me up on PM and we can take it from there, because quite frankly, you're just coming out with the same old rhetoric.

__
Jamesmcondell read what Banjo said, and then read what i replied.

gizmo1 wrote:Once again, you are just posting incorrectly translated/interpreted verses from the Quran obtained online from an anti-Islam website with no credibility whatsoever. As I have said before these type of websites can easily dupe someone without knowledge into believing all sorts of things by using clever editing so why you keep on resorting to this nonsense especially since it has got nothing to do with British boxing or the subject being discussed I just don't know. If you so are so interested in the Quran then just PM me and I will point you in the right direction to learn more about it. To get a better understanding of Islam, Christianity, Judaism, Budhism and Hinduism etc. I had to spend years doing proper research for my theology and comparative religion thesis. Just plucking quotes from the net is not proper research because you are relying on a website to provide you with correct and accurate information which in your case is not happening. I'm sure if users want to read about religion they would not come to the British & Irish boxing forum. Please stick to the topic and not resort to things that you don't seem to know much about. This also applies to others who seem to change boxing threads into some sort of religious platform. Thank you!

If these translations are incorrect (although they're actually taken from respected Islamic 'scholars') then please can you provide the 'correct' translation?

(You won't of course, you will make up a load of excuses about 'context', the difficulty of translating Arabic and blah blah blah....and other red herrings to attempt to support your weak argument, because those verses are inherently despicable and violent.)

reggaereggae wrote:

gizmo1 wrote:Once again, you are just posting incorrectly translated/interpreted verses from the Quran obtained online from an anti-Islam website with no credibility whatsoever. As I have said before these type of websites can easily dupe someone without knowledge into believing all sorts of things by using clever editing so why you keep on resorting to this nonsense especially since it has got nothing to do with British boxing or the subject being discussed I just don't know. If you so are so interested in the Quran then just PM me and I will point you in the right direction to learn more about it. To get a better understanding of Islam, Christianity, Judaism, Budhism and Hinduism etc. I had to spend years doing proper research for my theology and comparative religion thesis. Just plucking quotes from the net is not proper research because you are relying on a website to provide you with correct and accurate information which in your case is not happening. I'm sure if users want to read about religion they would not come to the British & Irish boxing forum. Please stick to the topic and not resort to things that you don't seem to know much about. This also applies to others who seem to change boxing threads into some sort of religious platform. Thank you!

If these translations are incorrect (although they're actually taken from respected Islamic 'scholars') then please can you provide the 'correct' translation?

(You won't of course, you will make up a load of excuses about 'context', the difficulty of translating Arabic and blah blah blah....and other red herrings to attempt to support your weak argument, because those verses are inherently despicable and violent.)

What a load of nonsense. When did a bigoted anti-Islam website become a respected Islamic scholar? It's funny how you don't name the respected scholars you have contacted to get their interpretation of the verses. As for quoting verses out of context; I deliberately haven't mentioned that because some of the verses you are providing are quite incorrect so context doesn't even come into question at this stage. You still don't get it do you? If I was taking part in a religious forum, I would take time out to properly translate/interpret verses for you but as I am chilling out on the British boxing forum I do not feel that I need to waste my time constantly correcting rubbish spouted by someone who just copies and pastes from dodgy websites. If you are so interested in interpreting/translating the Quran, I suggest you spend a decade or so learning Quranic Arabic and another decade or two studying the Quran and then you can try and do it yourself. Most people reading this thread do not share your concern about something written fourteen centuries ago and couldn't care less about any religion. Like me they would much rather be discussing boxing so please don't bend threads to suit the religiously bigotry of a website that you frequented. I will end this conversation here as I just haven't got time to waste on someone who just doesn't get it. Just stick to boxing and we can all be friends!

gizmo1 wrote:

reggaereggae wrote:

gizmo1 wrote:Once again, you are just posting incorrectly translated/interpreted verses from the Quran obtained online from an anti-Islam website with no credibility whatsoever. As I have said before these type of websites can easily dupe someone without knowledge into believing all sorts of things by using clever editing so why you keep on resorting to this nonsense especially since it has got nothing to do with British boxing or the subject being discussed I just don't know. If you so are so interested in the Quran then just PM me and I will point you in the right direction to learn more about it. To get a better understanding of Islam, Christianity, Judaism, Budhism and Hinduism etc. I had to spend years doing proper research for my theology and comparative religion thesis. Just plucking quotes from the net is not proper research because you are relying on a website to provide you with correct and accurate information which in your case is not happening. I'm sure if users want to read about religion they would not come to the British & Irish boxing forum. Please stick to the topic and not resort to things that you don't seem to know much about. This also applies to others who seem to change boxing threads into some sort of religious platform. Thank you!

If these translations are incorrect (although they're actually taken from respected Islamic 'scholars') then please can you provide the 'correct' translation?

(You won't of course, you will make up a load of excuses about 'context', the difficulty of translating Arabic and blah blah blah....and other red herrings to attempt to support your weak argument, because those verses are inherently despicable and violent.)

What a load of nonsense. When did a bigoted anti-Islam website become a respected Islamic scholar? It's funny how you don't name the respected scholars you have contacted to get their interpretation of the verses. As for quoting verses out of context; I deliberately haven't mentioned that because some of the verses you are providing are quite incorrect so context doesn't even come into question at this stage. You still don't get it do you? If I was taking part in a religious forum, I would take time out to properly translate/interpret verses for you but as I am chilling out on the British boxing forum I do not feel that I need to waste my time constantly correcting rubbish spouted by someone who just copies and pastes from dodgy websites. If you are so interested in interpreting/translating the Quran, I suggest you spend a decade or so learning Quranic Arabic and another decade or two studying the Quran and then you can try and do it yourself. Most people reading this thread do not share your concern about something written fourteen centuries ago and couldn't care less about any religion. Like me they would much rather be discussing boxing so please don't bend threads to suit the religiously bigotry of a website that you frequented. I will end this conversation here as I just haven't got time to waste on someone who just doesn't get it. Just stick to boxing and we can all be friends!

I am only on this forum to discuss boxing.(this thread should be on the opther forum.) But when someone defends an archaic, primitive, homophobic, chauvinistic, undemocratic, intolerant ideology you must excuse me having muy say.

PS I see you (predictably) have not provided me with your so-called 'correct' translation of these verses?

Can you not understand how that refusal to do so; undernmines your entire argument?

reggaereggae wrote:

gizmo1 wrote:

reggaereggae wrote: If these translations are incorrect (although they're actually taken from respected Islamic 'scholars') then please can you provide the 'correct' translation?

(You won't of course, you will make up a load of excuses about 'context', the difficulty of translating Arabic and blah blah blah....and other red herrings to attempt to support your weak argument, because those verses are inherently despicable and violent.)

What a load of nonsense. When did a bigoted anti-Islam website become a respected Islamic scholar? It's funny how you don't name the respected scholars you have contacted to get their interpretation of the verses. As for quoting verses out of context; I deliberately haven't mentioned that because some of the verses you are providing are quite incorrect so context doesn't even come into question at this stage. You still don't get it do you? If I was taking part in a religious forum, I would take time out to properly translate/interpret verses for you but as I am chilling out on the British boxing forum I do not feel that I need to waste my time constantly correcting rubbish spouted by someone who just copies and pastes from dodgy websites. If you are so interested in interpreting/translating the Quran, I suggest you spend a decade or so learning Quranic Arabic and another decade or two studying the Quran and then you can try and do it yourself. Most people reading this thread do not share your concern about something written fourteen centuries ago and couldn't care less about any religion. Like me they would much rather be discussing boxing so please don't bend threads to suit the religiously bigotry of a website that you frequented. I will end this conversation here as I just haven't got time to waste on someone who just doesn't get it. Just stick to boxing and we can all be friends!

I am only on this forum to discuss boxing.(this thread should be on the opther forum.) But when someone defends an archaic, primitive, homophobic, chauvinistic, undemocratic, intolerant ideology you must excuse me having muy say.

PS I see you (predictably) have not provided me with your so-called 'correct' translation of these verses?

Can you not understand how that refusal to do so; undernmines your entire argument?

No on the contrary. You still don't get it. If I was to spend all that time and research and then post it on this forum after constantly saying it's a boxing forum, then that would undermine my argument. You have an opinion and I can accept it on the understanding that it comes from a person without the background knowledge to accurately comment on such matters. I may occasionally try and correct someone who may be wrong in IMO but I am not here to defend anything or anyone. I'm not like some on here who will tell you to Eff off or make some other defamatory comments but you are going way off track here so please stick to boxing and we'll all be happy.

gizmo1 wrote:

No on the contrary. You still don't get it. If I was to spend all that time and research and then post it on this forum after constantly saying it's a boxing forum, then that would undermine my argument. You have an opinion and I can accept it on the understanding that it comes from a person without the background knowledge to accurately comment on such matters. I may occasionally try and correct someone who may be wrong in IMO but I am not here to defend anything or anyone. I'm not like some on here who will tell you to Eff off or make some other defamatory comments but you are going way off track here so please stick to boxing and we'll all be happy.

Agreed. Boxing is my personal passion and why I spend so much time on this site. We can all get sidetracked of course!

I'm more than happy to talk boxing only, esp on the British Forum!

reggaereggae wrote:

gizmo1 wrote:

No on the contrary. You still don't get it. If I was to spend all that time and research and then post it on this forum after constantly saying it's a boxing forum, then that would undermine my argument. You have an opinion and I can accept it on the understanding that it comes from a person without the background knowledge to accurately comment on such matters. I may occasionally try and correct someone who may be wrong in IMO but I am not here to defend anything or anyone. I'm not like some on here who will tell you to Eff off or make some other defamatory comments but you are going way off track here so please stick to boxing and we'll all be happy.

Agreed. Boxing is my personal passion and why I spend so much time on this site. We can all get sidetracked of course!

I'm more than happy to talk boxing only, esp on the British Forum!

Returning to boxing, I'm sure you'll agree with me that Small is not the sharpest tool in the box and that his anti-war sentiment is ill-timed and ill-placed. That about says it on Small, now let's go to another thread for some some proper boxing discussion.

Exactly, Small is a retard who thinks he's Ali.

doctorboxing wrote:Exactly, Small is a retard who thinks he's Ali.

He still going on about this on facebook!

gizmo1 wrote:Once again, you are just posting incorrectly translated/interpreted verses from the Quran obtained online from an anti-Islam website with no credibility whatsoever. As I have said before these type of websites can easily dupe someone without knowledge into believing all sorts of things by using clever editing so why you keep on resorting to this nonsense especially since it has got nothing to do with British boxing or the subject being discussed I just don't know. If you so are so interested in the Quran then just PM me and I will point you in the right direction to learn more about it. To get a better understanding of Islam, Christianity, Judaism, Budhism and Hinduism etc. I had to spend years doing proper research for my theology and comparative religion thesis. Just plucking quotes from the net is not proper research because you are relying on a website to provide you with correct and accurate information which in your case is not happening. I'm sure if users want to read about religion they would not come to the British & Irish boxing forum. Please stick to the topic and not resort to things that you don't seem to know much about. This also applies to others who seem to change boxing threads into some sort of religious platform. Thank you!

slapbangwhallop wrote:

terrdilk wrote:

Horse wrote:How does accepting money for it and doing as they are told make it not their fault?
How does having a go at Small show "Kahunas"? What does anyone lose/risk by doing so?

Horse you are talking out if your arse either way I now alot of people in the army who don't agree with the war put still have to go no matter weather they get payed or not odders come from tthe top and the lads have to do it like it or not! Us there not going around randomly killing people there are rules of engagement meaning they can not open fire unless fired upon fact

The old "I was only carrying out orders" defence, its a shakey argument Carl.

What I find puzzling about all this is were does it end, banning boxers for their political beliefs - a slippery slope.[/quot

Des1 wrote:

gizmo1 wrote:Once again, you are just posting incorrectly translated/interpreted verses from the Quran obtained online from an anti-Islam website with no credibility whatsoever. As I have said before these type of websites can easily dupe someone without knowledge into believing all sorts of things by using clever editing so why you keep on resorting to this nonsense especially since it has got nothing to do with British boxing or the subject being discussed I just don't know. If you so are so interested in the Quran then just PM me and I will point you in the right direction to learn more about it. To get a better understanding of Islam, Christianity, Judaism, Budhism and Hinduism etc. I had to spend years doing proper research for my theology and comparative religion thesis. Just plucking quotes from the net is not proper research because you are relying on a website to provide you with correct and accurate information which in your case is not happening. I'm sure if users want to read about religion they would not come to the British & Irish boxing forum. Please stick to the topic and not resort to things that you don't seem to know much about. This also applies to others who seem to change boxing threads into some sort of religious platform. Thank you!

Or as Harry Hill would put it.

"Now I like Islam, and I like Christianity..........but which one's better? Only one way to settle it...........FIGHT!"

The quote in a Boxing News letter summed it up perfectly.

"If you don't stand behind our Soldiers, please feel free to stand in front of them"

boxingchat wrote:
"If you don't stand behind our Soldiers, please feel free to stand in front of them"

Hate that quote. See it written by imbaciles on facebook all the time. People that dont support the war shouldnt have to go themselves. Moronic.

I lost a good friend in afghanistan, he was 23. I can honestly say his funeral was one the most awful experiences of my life. I disagree with the war, but when you sign up to the army you sign up to fight for queen and country, you train for a war, and when the government send you to war, you go. Blaming the soldiers is foolish. When I asked him if he was scared of going to war he replied "Nope, its what Ive trained for since I was 16".

As for Small, if I turned up at a peaceful Muslim demonstration and spat at them shouting "I hope you all die" (or similar) the likely event is I'd be locked up. Its disgusting.