BoxRec

He is Northern Irish

This thread is ridiculous.McCloskey is an Irishman,why is there even a discussion about it?Just cos someone fights for the British title that makes him British does it F**king clowns posting on this thread I hear all the time that the Irish are trying to claim everyone but most of their fighters are listed as British.Whoever feels so strongly that he aint an Irishman should email his website and ask him to change it cos he fought for the British title.While your at it tell Frankie Gavin and Jamie Moore to refer to themselves as Irish from now on

Steve89 wrote:This thread is ridiculous.McCloskey is an Irishman,why is there even a discussion about it?Just cos someone fights for the British title that makes him British does it

It does as far as boxing records go. You may or may not have noticed but this is a boxing records website.

F**king clowns posting on this thread

It's good that you are self aware - I don't see why you need to tell us about yourself.

I hear all the time that the Irish are trying to claim everyone but most of their fighters are listed as British.

The geogrpahical boundaries of the UK include Northern Ireland though I would personally have no problem of anyone who felt strongly enough to contact boxrec to list themselves in the Irish ratings if they have a Republic of Ireland passport and wanted to box for the IBU title.

Whoever feels so strongly that he aint an Irishman should email his website and ask him to change it cos he fought for the British title.

And won the British title - for which he needs British citizenship. If his personal identity is Irisih, Vanuatian or Martian - I don't think anyone cares except for Irish boxing fans of a certain political bent.

While your at it tell Frankie Gavin and Jamie Moore to refer to themselves as Irish from now on

You are getting personal identity and nationality all mixed up - bless ya!

didn't he win the BRITISH title?

Carlos-Wigan wrote:

Steve89 wrote:This thread is ridiculous.McCloskey is an Irishman,why is there even a discussion about it?Just cos someone fights for the British title that makes him British does it

It does as far as boxing records go. You may or may not have noticed but this is a boxing records website.

F**king clowns posting on this thread

It's good that you are self aware - I don't see why you need to tell us about yourself.

I hear all the time that the Irish are trying to claim everyone but most of their fighters are listed as British.

The geogrpahical boundaries of the UK include Northern Ireland though I would personally have no problem of anyone who felt strongly enough to contact boxrec to list themselves in the Irish ratings if they have a Republic of Ireland passport and wanted to box for the IBU title.

Whoever feels so strongly that he aint an Irishman should email his website and ask him to change it cos he fought for the British title.

And won the British title - for which he needs British citizenship. If his personal identity is Irisih, Vanuatian or Martian - I don't think anyone cares except for Irish boxing fans of a certain political bent.

While your at it tell Frankie Gavin and Jamie Moore to refer to themselves as Irish from now on

You are getting personal identity and nationality all mixed up - bless ya!

You being the biggest clown on this thread I see you're still spouting the same sh*t.I thought you might give up cos you're contradicting yourself all over the place.You need to learn the difference between nationality and citizenship,then you need to ask yourself why you're so threatened by Irish fighters being listed as Irish.If McCloskey is British by virtue of fighting for the British title then Jamie Moore and Frankie Gavin are Irish,your rules mate.

irish fans don't want their fighters to be regarded as british, even if they headline in britain and fight for british titles. and yet they seem to leap with joy when an englishman fights for something as lowly as an irish title.

Autobarn wrote:irish fans don't want their fighters to be regarded as british, even if they headline in britain and fight for british titles. and yet they seem to leap with joy when an englishman fights for something as lowly as an irish title.

The way I see it people like you want it all ways,Irish fighters who were born in N. Ireland,fighters who were born in England but have Irish roots,Nigerians with no British blood,Mongolians,Poles,etc just label them all as British regardless of where they are from,where their loyalty lies,what their roots are Thats some desperation right there,why try to claim whats not yours?

robpalmer135 wrote:didn't he win the BRITISH title?

didn't he represent IRELAND as an amateur?

Steve89 wrote:You being the biggest clown on this thread I see you're still spouting the same sh*t.I thought you might give up cos you're contradicting yourself all over the place.You need to learn the difference between nationality and citizenship,then you need to ask yourself why you're so threatened by Irish fighters being listed as Irish.If McCloskey is British by virtue of fighting for the British title then Jamie Moore and Frankie Gavin are Irish,your rules mate.

The Canadian heavyweight title was fought between recently a very large gentleman from Poland named Gregoriz Kiesla and a Bosnian strongman named Neven Pajic. Now, if you asked both of these gentlemen if there were Bosnian/Polish or Canadian - the likelehood is that they would refer to themselves as Bosnian or Polish - they came to Canada in their teens, their first language is Bosnian in the case of Pajic and Polish for Kielsa, all their family are first generation and still maintain the customs of their homelands and they still hold citizenship of their original countries.

However, they have fought for the Canadian title and hold Canadian citizenship, they also have Canadian boxing licenses. Now they are going to be RATED as Canadian - their personal
identity has nothing to do with this site and where they should be rated. The likelihood of Kielsa fighting in Poland against domestic Polish opposition is slim to none so why rate him there?

Now McCloskey has fought mainly in the UK, has won the British title for which he had to produce a British passport for. Has yet to fight an Irishman as a pro so why are we rating him as Irish when nationality and ratings are linked on this site?

His personal identity issues have nothing to do with boxrec - boxrec go on facts and the facts are as a former British champion who fought mostly in the United Kingdom, against mostly British oppoisiton and holds a BBB of C license should and is classed as British. Now what don't you understand about that? 8)

Carlos-Wigan wrote:

Steve89 wrote:You being the biggest clown on this thread I see you're still spouting the same sh*t.I thought you might give up cos you're contradicting yourself all over the place.You need to learn the difference between nationality and citizenship,then you need to ask yourself why you're so threatened by Irish fighters being listed as Irish.If McCloskey is British by virtue of fighting for the British title then Jamie Moore and Frankie Gavin are Irish,your rules mate.

The Canadian heavyweight title was fought between recently a very large gentleman from Poland named Gregoriz Kiesla and a Bosnian strongman named Neven Pajic. Now, if you asked both of these gentlemen if there were Bosnian/Polish or Canadian - the likelehood is that they would refer to themselves as Bosnian or Polish - they came to Canada in their teens, their first language is Bosnian in the case of Pajic and Polish for Kielsa, all their family are first generation and still maintain the customs of their homelands and they still hold citizenship of their original countries.

However, they have fought for the Canadian title and hold Canadian citizenship, they also have Canadian boxing licenses. Now they are going to be RATED as Canadian - their personal
identity has nothing to do with this site and where they should be rated. The likelihood of Kielsa fighting in Poland against domestic Polish opposition is slim to none so why rate him there?

Now McCloskey has fought mainly in the UK, has won the British title for which he had to produce a British passport for. Has yet to fight an Irishman as a pro so why are we rating him as Irish when nationality and ratings are linked on this site?

His personal identity issues have nothing to do with boxrec - boxrec go on facts and the facts are as a former British champion who fought mostly in the United Kingdom, against mostly British oppoisiton and holds a BBB of C license should and is classed as British. Now waht don't you understand about that? 8)

Boxrec states : Nationality - UK

UK is not a nationality

You state - He should be classed as British

British is not a nationality

McCloskey's nationality = Irish

Now what don't you understand about that?

Steve89 wrote:The way I see it people like you want it all ways,Irish fighters who were born in N. Ireland,fighters who were born in England but have Irish roots,Nigerians with no British blood,Mongolians,Poles,etc just label them all as British regardless of where they are from,where their loyalty lies,what their roots are Thats some desperation right there,why try to claim whats not yours?

You seem like a bit of a racist to me, we don't have have 'jus sangre' lawas regarding citizenship in this country (or yours) so yes - a person like Herbie Hide who has no 'British blood' at all can and is regarded as British. I suppose not all of us are as lucky as you to have both parents born in the same village and all your inbred ancestors born in the same patch of turf like you obviously have. For me and many people - if you see yourself as British then you are. I suppose you have a different view of how you classify someone as Irish - and I bet it is along similar lines of thinking as Adol Hitler!

Steve89 wrote: Boxrec states : Nationality - UK

UK is not a nationality

You state - He should be classed as British

British is not a nationality

McCloskey's nationality = Irish

Now what don't you understand about that?

I knew you would ignore the rest of the post Steve and grab onto semantics! 'Dutch' is not a nationality either! Nor is 'American' nor is 'Pureto Rican'

The passport I have says 'Great Britian and Northern Ireland' this means the great people of Northern Ireland have a choice if they want this passport of not. For McCloskey to fight for the title he has to be a British citizen. A lot of people in Northern Ireland really do see themselves as British. I don't know if McCloskey does or he doesn't - I don't care either way to be honest but for him to fight for the British title - he has to have British citizenship - its that simple. So for BOXING RECORDS only - he should be rated and classed as British.

John Duddy has Irish citizenship and has no interest in fighting for a British title and thus he is included in the Irish ratings - even though he was also born in Northern Ireland - its really simple!

Carlos-Wigan wrote:

Steve89 wrote:You being the biggest clown on this thread I see you're still spouting the same sh*t.I thought you might give up cos you're contradicting yourself all over the place.You need to learn the difference between nationality and citizenship,then you need to ask yourself why you're so threatened by Irish fighters being listed as Irish.If McCloskey is British by virtue of fighting for the British title then Jamie Moore and Frankie Gavin are Irish,your rules mate.

The Canadian heavyweight title was fought between recently a very large gentleman from Poland named Gregoriz Kiesla and a Bosnian strongman named Neven Pajic. Now, if you asked both of these gentlemen if there were Bosnian/Polish or Canadian - the likelehood is that they would refer to themselves as Bosnian or Polish - they came to Canada in their teens, their first language is Bosnian in the case of Pajic and Polish for Kielsa, all their family are first generation and still maintain the customs of their homelands and they still hold citizenship of their original countries.

However, they have fought for the Canadian title and hold Canadian citizenship, they also have Canadian boxing licenses. Now they are going to be RATED as Canadian - their personal
identity has nothing to do with this site and where they should be rated. The likelihood of Kielsa fighting in Poland against domestic Polish opposition is slim to none so why rate him there?

Now McCloskey has fought mainly in the UK, has won the British title for which he had to produce a British passport for. Has yet to fight an Irishman as a pro so why are we rating him as Irish when nationality and ratings are linked on this site?

His personal identity issues have nothing to do with boxrec - boxrec go on facts and the facts are as a former British champion who fought mostly in the United Kingdom, against mostly British oppoisiton and holds a BBB of C license should and is classed as British. Now what don't you understand about that? 8)

How come Bute is classed as Romanian then? He is a Canadian citizen?

Carlos-Wigan wrote:

Steve89 wrote:The way I see it people like you want it all ways,Irish fighters who were born in N. Ireland,fighters who were born in England but have Irish roots,Nigerians with no British blood,Mongolians,Poles,etc just label them all as British regardless of where they are from,where their loyalty lies,what their roots are Thats some desperation right there,why try to claim whats not yours?

You seem like a bit of a racist to me, we don't have have 'jus sangre' lawas regarding citizenship in this country (or yours) so yes - a person like Herbie Hide who has no 'British blood' at all can and is regarded as British. I suppose not all of us are as lucky as you to have both parents born in the same village and all your inbred ancestors born in the same patch of turf like you obviously have. For me and many people - if you see yourself as British then you are. I suppose you have a different view of how you classify someone as Irish - and I bet it is along similar lines of thinking as Adol Hitler!

That's a nice little story you're writing there Carlos.I'm not racist at all,Britain is not a race,you do realise that don't you?What I'm saying is that it seems to be accepted to call someone British and ignore nationality,loyalty,etc.It is a desperate attempt to claim everyone as belonging to Britain when in reality these people you are trying to claim have no wish to be labelled as such.

ImElvis666 wrote: How come Bute is classed as Romanian then? He is a Canadian citizen?

He didn't fight for the Canadian title - this is a boxing records website first and foremost - I am 100% certain if Bute did fight for the Canadian title he would have been rated as Canadian.

Steve89 wrote:

Autobarn wrote:irish fans don't want their fighters to be regarded as british, even if they headline in britain and fight for british titles. and yet they seem to leap with joy when an englishman fights for something as lowly as an irish title.

The way I see it people like you want it all ways,Irish fighters who were born in N. Ireland,fighters who were born in England but have Irish roots,Nigerians with no British blood,Mongolians,Poles,etc just label them all as British regardless of where they are from,where their loyalty lies,what their roots are Thats some desperation right there,why try to claim whats not yours?

i don't see it like that. lennox lewis is also nigerian and learned to box in canada, whom he represented in the olympics, for instance. a lot of the top manchester fighters could be whatever generation irish. at least going by their irish sounding surnames.

look at boxing in places like canada. all their best fighters are imported, apart from molitor and lemieux. pascal from haiti boxes for canada for opportunity but also went back to haiti to help during the disaster. bute and diaconu are basically heavy hitting european stylists, who can draw very impressive crowds in montreal.

personally, i don't care what nationality and citizenship mccloskey has, because i'm not really into any of the current light welterweights - they all seem a bit unexceptional to me. so mccloskey is irish this, and british that. but he also isn't british something else. is it really important?

Carlos-Wigan wrote:

Steve89 wrote: Boxrec states : Nationality - UK

UK is not a nationality

You state - He should be classed as British

British is not a nationality

McCloskey's nationality = Irish

Now what don't you understand about that?

I knew you would ignore the rest of the post Steve and grab onto semantics! 'Dutch' is not a nationality either! Nor is 'American' nor is 'Pureto Rican'

The passport I have says 'Great Britian and Northern Ireland' this means the great people of Northern Ireland have a choice if they want this passport of not. For McCloskey to fight for the title he has to be a British citizen. A lot of people in Northern Ireland really do see themselves as British. I don't know if McCloskey does or he doesn't - I don't care either way to be honest but for him to fight for the British title - he has to have British citizenship - its that simple. So for BOXING RECORDS only - he should be rated and classed as British.

John Duddy has Irish citizenship and has no interest in fighting for a British title and thus he is included in the Irish ratings - even though he was also born in Northern Ireland - its really simple!

It's not semantics,it's what this whole issue boils down to.Choosing to fight for a British title does not change your nationality,for you to say it does it f**king ridiculous.Anyway the issue is not whether he is British or not,it is that Boxrec lists his NATIONALITY as UK,this is factually incorrect as UK is not a nationalty,his nationality is Irish.

Carlos-Wigan wrote:

ImElvis666 wrote: How come Bute is classed as Romanian then? He is a Canadian citizen?

He didn't fight for the Canadian title - this is a boxing records website first and foremost - I am 100% certain if Bute did fight for the Canadian title he would have been rated as Canadian.

So we can expect to see Gavin's changed to Irish when he fights in September then? You can't have your cake and eat it. Gavin considers himself and Englishman so that is what his nationality should be on Boxrec. Simple as.

Autobarn wrote:

Steve89 wrote:

Autobarn wrote:irish fans don't want their fighters to be regarded as british, even if they headline in britain and fight for british titles. and yet they seem to leap with joy when an englishman fights for something as lowly as an irish title.

The way I see it people like you want it all ways,Irish fighters who were born in N. Ireland,fighters who were born in England but have Irish roots,Nigerians with no British blood,Mongolians,Poles,etc just label them all as British regardless of where they are from,where their loyalty lies,what their roots are Thats some desperation right there,why try to claim whats not yours?

i don't see it like that. lennox lewis is also nigerian and learned to box in canada, whom he represented in the olympics, for instance. a lot of the top manchester fighters could be whatever generation irish. at least going by their irish sounding surnames.

look at boxing in places like canada. all their best fighters are imported, apart from molitor and lemieux. pascal from haiti boxes for canada for opportunity but also went back to haiti to help during the disaster. bute and diaconu are basically heavy hitting european stylists, who can draw very impressive crowds in montreal.

personally, i don't care what nationality and citizenship mccloskey has, because i'm not really into any of the current light welterweights - they all seem a bit unexceptional to me. so mccloskey is irish this, and british that. but he also isn't british something else. is it really important?

I accept what you're saying but nationalty is important to a lot of people,some don't give a f**k what they are labelled as but others do.I don't see why anyone would have a problem with any fighter from N. Ireland being listed as Irish.

ImElvis666 wrote:

Carlos-Wigan wrote:

ImElvis666 wrote: How come Bute is classed as Romanian then? He is a Canadian citizen?

He didn't fight for the Canadian title - this is a boxing records website first and foremost - I am 100% certain if Bute did fight for the Canadian title he would have been rated as Canadian.

So we can expect to see Gavin's changed to Irish when he fights in September then? You can't have your cake and eat it. Gavin considers himself and Englishman so that is what his nationality should be on Boxrec. Simple as.

If Frankie Gavin fights for the Irish title and has an Irish passport then he should be rated as Irish - I have no problem with that!

You do know that to fight for the British title you have to have British citizenship? Which McCloskey must have had to win the British light welterweight title? You do know that to win the IBU title you don't have to be an Irish citizen?

Steve89 wrote: It's not semantics,it's what this whole issue boils down to.Choosing to fight for a British title does not change your nationality,for you to say it does it f**king ridiculous.Anyway the issue is not whether he is British or not,it is that Boxrec lists his NATIONALITY as UK,this is factually incorrect as UK is not a nationalty,his nationality is Irish.

You obviously haven't a clue about eligibility in regards fighting for the British title - he has to have British citizenship to fight for the title - thats the rules. So he must regard himself as British because he doesn't have to have British citizenship under the GFA. It was a concious decision to take out British citizenship and fight for the British title. He can regard himself as Zambian outside of boxing - I couldn't give a toss how he sees himself but in regards his rating on here that is based on nationality - he is rated as British - even if he isn't rated as British in any other part of his life.

Carlos-Wigan wrote:

Steve89 wrote: It's not semantics,it's what this whole issue boils down to.Choosing to fight for a British title does not change your nationality,for you to say it does it f**king ridiculous.Anyway the issue is not whether he is British or not,it is that Boxrec lists his NATIONALITY as UK,this is factually incorrect as UK is not a nationalty,his nationality is Irish.

You obviously haven't a clue about eligibility in regards fighting for the British title - he has to have British citizenship to fight for the title - thats the rules. So he must regard himself as British because he doesn't have to have British citizenship under the GFA. It was a concious decision to take out British citizenship and fight for the British title. He can regard himself as Zambian outside of boxing - I couldn't give a toss how he sees himself but in regards his rating on here that is based on nationality - he is rated as British - even if he isn't rated as British in any other part of his life.

That sentence couldn't make less sense We are talking about NATIONALITY not citizenship,they are two different things Carlos.Boxrec does not say - "Rated as - British" or "Fought for British title so must be British". It says Nationality - United Kingdom,which is incorrect.Stop arguing a point that has nothing to do with the thread topic.

So what have we learned today kids?Nationality is dictated not by where you were born,not by where your parents are from or any such nonsense,but by what boxing title you fight for.Good one Carlos

Carlos-Wigan wrote:

ImElvis666 wrote:

Carlos-Wigan wrote:
He didn't fight for the Canadian title - this is a boxing records website first and foremost - I am 100% certain if Bute did fight for the Canadian title he would have been rated as Canadian.

So we can expect to see Gavin's changed to Irish when he fights in September then? You can't have your cake and eat it. Gavin considers himself and Englishman so that is what his nationality should be on Boxrec. Simple as.

If Frankie Gavin fights for the Irish title and has an Irish passport then he should be rated as Irish - I have no problem with that!

That's ridiculous.

You do know that to fight for the British title you have to have British citizenship? Which McCloskey must have had to win the British light welterweight title? You do know that to win the IBU title you don't have to be an Irish citizen?

Whether he has one or not is irrelevant. My point still stands. If a fighter considers himself a particular nationality, the site should respect that.

To be honest, I don't really care but I can see how it would irk others. If it bothered McCloskey enough I'm sure he would do something to change it. I couldn't be bothered having a long tit for tat argument, the thread is long enough and I would imagine boring to read so let's agree to disagree.

Steve89 wrote: That sentence couldn't make less sense We are talking about NATIONALITY not citizenship,they are two different things Carlos.Boxrec does not say - "Rated as - British" or "Fought for British title so must be British". It says Nationality - United Kingdom,which is incorrect.Stop arguing a point that has nothing to do with the thread topic.

na·tion·al·i·ty (nsh-nl-t, nsh-nl-)
n. pl. na·tion·al·i·ties
1. The status of belonging to a particular nation by origin, birth, or naturalization.
2. A people having common origins or traditions and often constituting a nation.
3. Existence as a politically autonomous entity; national independence.
4. National character.
5. Nationalism.

His nationality is British - which he can choose unlike the vast majority of British citizens. He is a citizen of the United Kingdom and Northern Ireland. His identity is Irish which is for him to choose - however, many people in Northern Ireland choose to be British - now I am sure the people who see themselves as Irish choose Irish citizenship - the people who see themselves as British choose British citizenship - McCloskey chose British citizenship and with that passport - he fought and won the British light welterweight title.

You say there is no such thing as 'British' but the United Kingdom and Northern Ireland is a existing political identity under the UN and their citizens are labelled as British instead of United Kingdomite - just like citizens of the Netherlands are labelled as 'Dutch' and not Netherlander. As for the boxrec ratings not having 'nationality' for the good people of Northern Ireland - most who see themselves as British anyway - English, Scottish and Welsh boxers are denied their 'nationality' on boxrec too!

If McCloskey hadn't had fought for the British title (for which he needs British citizenship)- no-one would be having this argument.