BoxRec

yancey wrote: I don't hate Ali.

Hilarious.

yancey wrote: But whatever.

Even funnier. Does that mean you and that other nutter will take at least one day off from trying to denigrate Ali, or Clay as you both like to call him during your skpe sessions?

Il Duce wrote:I think Muhammad Ali hit his 'peak' when he opened up that 'first' CHAMPBURGER franchise in
Northwest Miami beach in 1969.

Muhammad Ali {1969 Quote}

"I can just see it now, a Muhammad Ali 'CHAMPBURGER' fast-food restaurant in every town
across America."

"I Love America, I get to keep 5% of every Dollar spent at my restaurant."

"Go Muhammad Go"

Is it still open? I'm gettin' hungry.

BoxBuzz wrote:

Il Duce wrote:I think Muhammad Ali hit his 'peak' when he opened up that 'first' CHAMPBURGER franchise in
Northwest Miami beach in 1969.

Muhammad Ali {1969 Quote}

"I can just see it now, a Muhammad Ali 'CHAMPBURGER' fast-food restaurant in every town
across America."

"I Love America, I get to keep 5% of every Dollar spent at my restaurant."

"Go Muhammad Go"

Is it still open? I'm gettin' hungry.

Il Duce wrote:The 'CHAMPBURGER' Restaurant Franchise..........'flopped'.

Muhammad Ali sold the rights to the Corporation to use his name for $900,000 in 1969.

Mr. Ali also received a 5% fee for anyone who bought a new franchise.

He also received a 1% Royalty of all 'Net Sales'.

Nothing was better than watching Muhammad Ali 'flip burgers' at the Grand Opening of a
new Franchise in Miami..

He was a 'natural', almost like he was born to 'run-the-grille'.

http://mediastore.magnumphotos.com/Core ... C35508.jpg

I'm 50-50 on the Vietnam thing.

Yes, Il Duce is right, he didn't do it for anyone but himself. They invented the rationale retrospectively. He was also a member of The NOI who are on a par with all the other right wing racist groups. Ali was used by these people.

But at the same time there was something good about his anti-war stance no matter what the reasoning behind it.

Ali kept all the bile and spite for his black opponents...never the white ones. Told everyone who would listen that he beat Frazier in the first fight and Joe only won because he was working for The Man.

All that is well documented.

Ali also did an awful lot of good. Everyone has their faults. Ali's no different. He was a truly amazing fighter and a great human being to most people...that's as much as you can ask of anyone.

I guess for some there's just too much sugar on the pill.

Now our resident loons are citing Ali's promiscuity as a reason to hate Ali.

They should read Smokin' Joe's book. He couldn't help himself loving as many women as possible.

But it's okay when you're guy does it, but when the guy you just don't like does it, well, then it's a stick to beat him with.

Ali's burger joint flopped. How did Joe's business ventures go?

The desperate grasping at straws by a pair of grown men in this thread is just embarrassing.

We don't like sports men now because of their bedroom antics? Has it seriously come to this?

As these guys perfect men? No. Have their major biographies omitted their infidelity? No. So what exactly is the problem? What on earth has created such bitterness in these two distant observers?

Il Duce wrote:Look How Happy Cassius Looks,,,,,,,,,as he signs the contract "Cassius Clay"

Look at all my new friends.

http://cdn.dipity.com/uploads/events/ee ... 303_1M.png

Not being funny but on the back row...4 in from the left. Could almost be a young F r a n k W a r r e n.

That Clay sure was an uppity negroid wasn't he, Ducey Mussolini old sport.

Il Duce has now sunk to the all-time low of Granberry in terms of psychopathic trolling.

Did anyone here ever have a champ burger?

Il Duce wrote:

dempseyfire wrote:Did anyone here ever have a champ burger?

Yes, the meat was of a poor quality, very low-grade.

CHAMPBURGERS was a Neo-Soul Fast-Food Restaurant, offering Muslin friendly food.

The French-Fries were tasty, but the beverage choice 'Mr. Champ Soda' was flat.

Advertising Gimmick......."Enjoy some tasty Neo-Soul Cusine with the Champ, it will be a Knockout"

Maybe Champburgers should have had Joe Frazier and the Knockouts sing some commercials for them.

Buzz could have been in the background playing the sax.

The place might have made it and blown McDonalds away.

Il Duce wrote:Mr. Yancey,

'Smokin Joe' and the Knockouts don't play small gigs...........

They like a 'Big Show' with No Clowns.

'Smokin Joe' commanded a $5000 Guarantee per gig........

You're right.

Joe didn't have much use for clowns, especially the ass clown variety.

Was known to knock 'em on their ass.

Too bad he is not around to give Giancarlo a special "hello".

RIP Smoke.

Benito and Nancy - the creepiest couple on boxrec ever?

Nah, not a part of any couple here.

But I'd vote for sick little Giancarlo and the insanely weird Collins as the true creepiest couple.

Oh wait, their the same dude.

Or dudette, I certainly don't care to find out.

Patterson?.....easy breezy, defense once again, Ali avoiding the real threats....The Caddilac, The Chrysler...and the Lincoln. Any of those would have run him over. IF they had the chance. But those advisors of his.....always scrapin' the bottom of the barrel.

When Joe Frazier was champ, you have to admit he did not rest, he took on the best.

Terry Daniels, immediately followed by Ron Stander, and....well you know.

By the way, what were the odds on the Foreman Frazier fight? Was Foreman

considered to in the "Presidential" class of opponent? Did the public

anticipate the rise of this guy George? Or was it a bit of a surprise. I can't quite

remember....cuz I'm way past 60 and my memory comes and goes.

When Ron Stander agreed to that fight the critics were impressed that Joe was willing

to take on such a challenge. Though Ron's wife appeared to be critical of her

husband....

His wife famously said:

You don’t take a Volkswagen into the Indy 500, unless you know of a hell of a

shortcut.

Il Duce wrote:I always respected Cassius

Blushing Nancy wrote:Nah, not a part of any couple here.

Just because it hasn't been formally announced yet in the klan newsletter?

I can just picture your old fella Granberry in his tuxedo, proud as punch as father of the bride.

Il Duce wrote:I always respected Cassius,

But he did the avoid the other Amos,

'Atom' Amos Johnson,

The same Amos Johnson who slapped him around back in 1959 at the Pan Am Games Trials.

You'd think he would want revenge on Amos........

Well I think the London, Liston, Bonavena, Martin.....contiguous losses probably put a damper on things for that to ever work out. He did his best to put the "coconut punch" or would that be a "casaba clobbering'? on London, but the referee nixed it I guess. Well he really wasn't doing all that well against London any way. Johnson was waging what some might call a "cerebral fight" with London I guess.

But you make a good point, Amos Johnson OR the guy who scared and bullied the young Cassius and stole his bike, may well have been the future of the HW division....if Ali would have simply gave them their rightful opportunity for a second chance. His daddy also whipped him a time or two according to history....so their's another unavenged defeat.

Do we have a name on that guy who stole the bike? Why didn't they sign to settle that? Another rampant example of his running from the best of the best when it came to defending his title.

To his credit Amos can boast that he traded leather with Clay (amat W), Liston (L), Bob Foster (amat), Henry Cooper (W),Brian London (L), Mildenberger (D),Bonavena (L) and Leotis Martin (L).

How did that Foster fight come out?

People really have to scrape the bottom of the barrel for guys who Ali didn't fight!

So you think he "side stepped" the undeniable #1 threat in this case? OR did he just took a fight with another contender?, A contender that did pose some drama to him in the past, and as a result was very likely a more lucrative fight......these are different things. And it was not the amateurs. It's called "prize" fighting for a reason.

If your going to do battle...seems the bigger purse would be one of the reasons to put your neck on the line would be the ol' pot o' gold.

Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar Duce. In this case...he just needed to clear up that bit of ambiguity....and people were willing to pay to see it.

Seems more like routine matters of business and life than any occult agenda to keep this other contender out of the limelight. Had he managed to win his next 3 or 4 fights....I think he would have gotten a payday with the champ as a reward.

Il Duce wrote:Question,

Were the Louisville Sponsoring Group Boys looking out for the best interests of Boxing or
the best interests of their investment.

William Faversham Jr. ran the show, and he was the 'brains' of the operation.

Fair question....and of course they were looking out for their paychecks. But in spite of that, in hindsight, history still took a pretty equitable path for all concerned. Including the various contenders.

Perhaps a "good fight" was missed.....but with wins over McNeely and Green and losses to Daniels and Chuvalo that year....not sure a fight with Doug would have been an earth shattering event of any kind.

I would have liked to have seen it because it was a chance to address some ambiguity....something you took issue with in the case of Cooper.

It's hard to find your "core principles" at times.

Duce....I was around when the Pharoes ruled Egypt....lol. Prize fighting has often been about the "Prize". My favorite fighter of my lifetime has been Archie Moore. Watched him several times in "real time"

Anyway....to my odd and admittedly quirky way of thinking, I just made a whole bunch of sense......it's linear, it's logical, it has context and objective info. I'm simply challenging some of your statements by adding some counterpoint and additional data that you felt perhaps "superflous" to the point you postulated. Many of your points seem centered around Ali's "Carnera like" aspects.

But honestly regardless of the various compromising facts surrounding Ali's career, to pretend he was some sort of a "sham" is just whole cloth nonsense.

He's controversial, and he's not everyone's "cup o' tea", but to suggest this guy was some sort of "bad performer" in the very serious art of pugilism.....well it smacks of politics or some sort of personal agenda. And he "engaged" in far more serious options of defense than just about any other historical holder of the belt. Your latest passion has been to attempt to say that any/every contender that he did not get around to, were THE keys to his potential undoing....and he managed to hide from every one. If it is a serious point, I'm simply offering a serious rebuttal.

Yeah I remember when they brought dirt to the market. I'm still thinkin' it's just a phase...gardener's will eventually turn to Black Magic or Cow manure once they figure out dirt's drawbacks.

Speakin' of dirt, you've been dishin' it out.

Duce, I didn't know that it was clearly documented beyond a doubt that Liston was given such marching orders. I did hear from a very good source that "everyone on the east coast knew" about what you are referring to. Alas....I was near San Diego in those days. On the west coast, we didn't get the memo.

That's a pretty compelling case. I give up. You have conclusively proven something here beyond a shadow of a doubt.

Just what you have proven will be known only to the eye of the thoughtful readers.