BoxRec

fornicate the belt off and stick him with quigg

Do you really think he got £160k for fighting for world title?

orbtastic wrote:

palooka wrote:

jackukmma wrote:"I imagine that it'll take some doing for Hobson to ever recoup the outlay for the Keepmoat World Title fight and expenses but as long as someones happy!"

Not McDonnell fault Hobson couldn't do his job properly. He failed to get the fight on tv which woukd of covered costs and raised profile. He failed to promote the fight and bring in any sort of a crowd. You can't just book the ground and say job done let's hope people turn up. That's when you have actually got to sell the event which he didn't do

That fight was all over the media and every boxing fan in the country knew when it was on, who was boxing and how to get to Doncaster. Boxing for a world title doesn't make you an instant attratction; the world jet ski champion lives in the next village to Jamie but isn't mobbed and there's maybe a 1000 turn out to watch him - for free; guess what? Jet ski is a minority sport and so is boxing; Jamie is a bantamweight without a heavy punch, who boxes distance fights and lives in a town where boxing is not particularly well supported. Lets see how many are there to see him in his next fight and I wonder if he'll get £160,000 for it?

Hobson did well to get Ceja over here and excellent to deliver the fight to the Keepmoat - also the fault for the bout not being on TV is more down the ludicrous TV situation in British boxing at the minute - is it Chris Sanigars fault that Dean Francis won't be shown on TV in his title fight? With all the promotion in the world there is only a small proportion of boxing fans likely to attend a show, Jamie Mcdonnell is not Ricky Hatton jack.

Boxing fans don't really bring the money in, non boxing fans do. Otherwise the York Hall would be moving to the 02.

Face facts, it was poorly promoted. I had two friends of mine who own businesses tell me that Dennis came in on the Thursday or Friday before the fight, asking them to put posters up. What the hell is that about?

It was also badly organised, it was amateur hour in my eyes, having been to a ton of live boxing over the years. The crowd were louder for one of the undercard fights than they were for the main event.

Yeah Hobson would argue he paid through the nose to get him every single advantage but for what? If he's not prepared to get him a reasonably quick defence organised, it's back to "Jamie who?"

But the promoter shouldn't be in the crowd geeing the crowd along; I've seen far better fights on an undercard than the main event provides and people do respond to a punch up; Jamie is not Gatti, he is a very good technician but isn't overly exciting - he's like Duke McKenzie, a nice kid and all but he should have done this different.

leforge - that didn't come through, please post again

palooka wrote:leforge - that didn't come through, please post again

I just posted there no way he got £160k for that fight.

palooka wrote:

orbtastic wrote:

palooka wrote:That fight was all over the media and every boxing fan in the country knew when it was on, who was boxing and how to get to Doncaster. Boxing for a world title doesn't make you an instant attratction; the world jet ski champion lives in the next village to Jamie but isn't mobbed and there's maybe a 1000 turn out to watch him - for free; guess what? Jet ski is a minority sport and so is boxing; Jamie is a bantamweight without a heavy punch, who boxes distance fights and lives in a town where boxing is not particularly well supported. Lets see how many are there to see him in his next fight and I wonder if he'll get £160,000 for it?

Hobson did well to get Ceja over here and excellent to deliver the fight to the Keepmoat - also the fault for the bout not being on TV is more down the ludicrous TV situation in British boxing at the minute - is it Chris Sanigars fault that Dean Francis won't be shown on TV in his title fight? With all the promotion in the world there is only a small proportion of boxing fans likely to attend a show, Jamie Mcdonnell is not Ricky Hatton jack.

Boxing fans don't really bring the money in, non boxing fans do. Otherwise the York Hall would be moving to the 02.

Face facts, it was poorly promoted. I had two friends of mine who own businesses tell me that Dennis came in on the Thursday or Friday before the fight, asking them to put posters up. What the hell is that about?

It was also badly organised, it was amateur hour in my eyes, having been to a ton of live boxing over the years. The crowd were louder for one of the undercard fights than they were for the main event.

Yeah Hobson would argue he paid through the nose to get him every single advantage but for what? If he's not prepared to get him a reasonably quick defence organised, it's back to "Jamie who?"

But the promoter shouldn't be in the crowd geeing the crowd along; I've seen far better fights on an undercard than the main event provides and people do respond to a punch up; Jamie is not Gatti, he is a very good technician but isn't overly exciting - he's like Duke McKenzie, a nice kid and all but he should have done this different.

No, I'm not in any way suggesting he should be in the crowd.

I'm suggesting that his insistence at having it at the football ground is what sucked the atmosphere (or rather, chilled it to the bone) right out of what could have been a fantastic night. The HAll fight was good but the McDonnell fight was on another level. It's a shame that those outside ringside were a. so far away b. freezing their tits off.

Anyone with a brain could have taken a look at the stadium, the size of a ring and gone hmm....we've only sold X tickets, it's not even 25% "full" and there's a huge gap outside "ringside" (I use that term loosely as actual ringside was a mile away) and the stadium seating...by 25% full I mean the actual part of the stadium in use, not the stadium itself.

jackukmma wrote:Hobson had tv offers but turned them down. He's employed as a promoter. He failed to promote the fight properly. He delivered the fight assumed people would turn up and put his feet up thinking his job was done. If he's done what I have heard he's done it's despicable really. Especially as he's painted himself as the innocent party. I hope it all comes our

You've said the exact same thing earlier in this thread. The fight was live on primetime, Hobson's other option was Sky, where he would have been forced into a co-promotion with Eddie Hearn, forcing him to lose even more money. 4,000 people showed up for an unknown fighter at bantamweight, hardly a popular division here and McDonnell made £160,000, far more than Burns, Cleverly and Froch made for their first world title fights. He forked out for Ceja to travel to Doncaster, managed to get Howard Foster, another Doncaster man, as referee and Dave Parris as one of the judges, I fail to see what more he could have done. You suggest he's done something 'despicable', possibly pressurising the IBF to strip Jamie, exactly what he deserves. He lined up a TV deal with allegedly for future fights and was seemingly ready to announce the first defence. For a man with no TV deal, a limited fighter who's rarely in exciting fights and has no major fanbase, I'd say he did a brilliant job, only to be fucked over by a combination of McDonnell and Eddie Hearn performing his usual role of tapping up fighter's under contract. Hobson isn't employed as a promoter either, McDonnell is or was employed by him as a fighter.

I can remember watching Julio Cesar Chavez v Fransisco Thomas Da Cruz in an almost entirely empty stadium; I can imagine it was supposed to be a 'dream occasion' but there are few boxers who are popular enough to fill a football ground; there was an after fight party in town held in his honour and arranged weeks before (at Pad) and Jamie didn't turn up to that either.

orbtastic wrote:

palooka wrote:

orbtastic wrote: Boxing fans don't really bring the money in, non boxing fans do. Otherwise the York Hall would be moving to the 02.

Face facts, it was poorly promoted. I had two friends of mine who own businesses tell me that Dennis came in on the Thursday or Friday before the fight, asking them to put posters up. What the hell is that about?

It was also badly organised, it was amateur hour in my eyes, having been to a ton of live boxing over the years. The crowd were louder for one of the undercard fights than they were for the main event.

Yeah Hobson would argue he paid through the nose to get him every single advantage but for what? If he's not prepared to get him a reasonably quick defence organised, it's back to "Jamie who?"

But the promoter shouldn't be in the crowd geeing the crowd along; I've seen far better fights on an undercard than the main event provides and people do respond to a punch up; Jamie is not Gatti, he is a very good technician but isn't overly exciting - he's like Duke McKenzie, a nice kid and all but he should have done this different.

No, I'm not in any way suggesting he should be in the crowd.

I'm suggesting that his insistence at having it at the football ground is what sucked the atmosphere (or rather, chilled it to the bone) right out of what could have been a fantastic night. The HAll fight was good but the McDonnell fight was on another level. It's a shame that those outside ringside were a. so far away b. freezing their tits off.

Anyone with a brain could have taken a look at the stadium, the size of a ring and gone hmm....we've only sold X tickets, it's not even 25% "full" and there's a huge gap outside "ringside" (I use that term loosely as actual ringside was a mile away) and the stadium seating...by 25% full I mean the actual part of the stadium in use, not the stadium itself.

McDonnell wanted the fight in Doncaster, for that to happen, outdoors was the only realistic option because the Doncaster Dome only holds 2,000, which isn't enough for a world title fight, especially with the purses being paid.

expe wrote:

jackukmma wrote:Hobson had tv offers but turned them down. He's employed as a promoter. He failed to promote the fight properly. He delivered the fight assumed people would turn up and put his feet up thinking his job was done. If he's done what I have heard he's done it's despicable really. Especially as he's painted himself as the innocent party. I hope it all comes our

You've said the exact same thing earlier in this thread. The fight was live on primetime, Hobson's other option was Sky, where he would have been forced into a co-promotion with Eddie Hearn, forcing him to lose even more money. 4,000 people showed up for an unknown fighter at bantamweight, hardly a popular division here and McDonnell made £160,000, far more than Burns, Cleverly and Froch made for their first world title fights. He forked out for Ceja to travel to Doncaster, managed to get Howard Foster, another Doncaster man, as referee and Dave Parris as one of the judges, I fail to see what more he could have done. You suggest he's done something 'despicable', possibly pressurising the IBF to strip Jamie, exactly what he deserves. He lined up a TV deal with Allegedly channel for future fights and was seemingly ready to announce the first defence. For a man with no TV deal, a limited fighter who's rarely in exciting fights and has no major fanbase, I'd say he did a brilliant job, only to be fucked over by a combination of McDonnell and Eddie Hearn performing his usual role of tapping up fighter's under contract. Hobson isn't employed as a promoter either, McDonnell is or was employed by him as a fighter.

Thank feck for that I felt like King Canute

I think your dreaming he got £160k for that fight.

palooka wrote:I can remember watching Julio Cesar Chavez v Fransisco Thomas Da Cruz in an almost entirely empty stadium; I can imagine it was supposed to be a 'dream occasion' but there are few boxers who are popular enough to fill a football ground; there was an after fight party in town held in his honour and arranged weeks before (at Pad) and Jamie didn't turn up to that either.

I got a free ticket for it, I didn't bother either.

I suppose it sounds like it's nit picking and yeah, Hobson did his job but there's also some things he could have done differently and I suspect that is why Jamie's on his bike. He's a boxer, they have finite careers and you'd have to feel frustrated given what's happened since? (on both sides).

To me the title is kinda irrelevant now, he'll be starting from a certain point again with MR and I suspect he'll get another IBF title shot lined up.

orbtastic wrote:

palooka wrote:I can remember watching Julio Cesar Chavez v Fransisco Thomas Da Cruz in an almost entirely empty stadium; I can imagine it was supposed to be a 'dream occasion' but there are few boxers who are popular enough to fill a football ground; there was an after fight party in town held in his honour and arranged weeks before (at Pad) and Jamie didn't turn up to that either.

I got a free ticket for it, I didn't bother either.

I suppose it sounds like it's nit picking and yeah, Hobson did his job but there's also some things he could have done differently and I suspect that is why Jamie's on his bike. He's a boxer, they have finite careers and you'd have to feel frustrated given what's happened since? (on both sides).

To me the title is kinda irrelevant now, he'll be starting from a certain point again with MR and I suspect he'll get another IBF title shot lined up.

But the point about those very popular boxers - Hatton, Matthews etc is that make the effort when they can't be bothered; that's what helps them stay popular or build them through thick and thin.

Fair does to the lad; he's gone for the greener grass but he's shit on his doorstep - he should have gone 12 months ago and saved them all a load of grief.

(And I remember seeing at the time of the Ceja bout that there was a mandatory for November so all the hoo har about not having a fight lined up etc is bollocks, there was one there that has to be fought, Eddie may have said he could sort it but he's not been able to; if I were Hobson I'd want paying out though I recognise it's Jamie taking the punches.

expe wrote:McDonnell wanted the fight in Doncaster, for that to happen, outdoors was the only realistic option because the Doncaster Dome only holds 2,000, which isn't enough for a world title fight, especially with the purses being paid.

Yeah I'm well aware of that. It just screamed "unrealistic" from the off. I raised an eyebrow when they said it was at the Keepmoat, but easier for me, I walked there for once.

Sheffield would have been a better option, let's be honest, there is no way on earth it sold as many tickets as they made out it did.

expe wrote:

jackukmma wrote:Hobson had tv offers but turned them down. He's employed as a promoter. He failed to promote the fight properly. He delivered the fight assumed people would turn up and put his feet up thinking his job was done. If he's done what I have heard he's done it's despicable really. Especially as he's painted himself as the innocent party. I hope it all comes our

You've said the exact same thing earlier in this thread. The fight was live on primetime, Hobson's other option was Sky, where he would have been forced into a co-promotion with Eddie Hearn, forcing him to lose even more money. 4,000 people showed up for an unknown fighter at bantamweight, hardly a popular division here and McDonnell made £160,000, far more than Burns, Cleverly and Froch made for their first world title fights. He forked out for Ceja to travel to Doncaster, managed to get Howard Foster, another Doncaster man, as referee and Dave Parris as one of the judges, I fail to see what more he could have done. You suggest he's done something 'despicable', possibly pressurising the IBF to strip Jamie, exactly what he deserves. He lined up a TV deal with Allegedly channel for future fights and was seemingly ready to announce the first defence. For a man with no TV deal, a limited fighter who's rarely in exciting fights and has no major fanbase, I'd say he did a brilliant job, only to be fucked over by a combination of McDonnell and Eddie Hearn performing his usual role of tapping up fighter's under contract. Hobson isn't employed as a promoter either, McDonnell is or was employed by him as a fighter.

Whilst I agree with nearly everything you have written, do you have any proof that Hearn tapped him up? Or any other fighters?

Don't let your bias get in the way of a great post.

DMA1987 wrote:

expe wrote:

jackukmma wrote:Hobson had tv offers but turned them down. He's employed as a promoter. He failed to promote the fight properly. He delivered the fight assumed people would turn up and put his feet up thinking his job was done. If he's done what I have heard he's done it's despicable really. Especially as he's painted himself as the innocent party. I hope it all comes our

You've said the exact same thing earlier in this thread. The fight was live on primetime, Hobson's other option was Sky, where he would have been forced into a co-promotion with Eddie Hearn, forcing him to lose even more money. 4,000 people showed up for an unknown fighter at bantamweight, hardly a popular division here and McDonnell made £160,000, far more than Burns, Cleverly and Froch made for their first world title fights. He forked out for Ceja to travel to Doncaster, managed to get Howard Foster, another Doncaster man, as referee and Dave Parris as one of the judges, I fail to see what more he could have done. You suggest he's done something 'despicable', possibly pressurising the IBF to strip Jamie, exactly what he deserves. He lined up a TV deal with Allegedly channel for future fights and was seemingly ready to announce the first defence. For a man with no TV deal, a limited fighter who's rarely in exciting fights and has no major fanbase, I'd say he did a brilliant job, only to be fucked over by a combination of McDonnell and Eddie Hearn performing his usual role of tapping up fighter's under contract. Hobson isn't employed as a promoter either, McDonnell is or was employed by him as a fighter.

Whilst I agree with nearly everything you have written, do you have any proof that Hearn tapped him up? Or any other fighters?

Don't let your bias get in the way of a great post.

No evidence, but Hobson has mentioned outside influences and numerous fighters seem to be leaving their promoters(usually warren) and signing for Hearn days later. For a contract to be agreed, read through by lawyers, signed and announced in such a short space of time is pushing it, Stephen Smith moved very quickly. I'm not questioning the rights of fighters to leave their promoters if there's a breach of contract, just that they seem to all move to the same promoter and very quickly, suggesting negotiations may have started before the termination of the contract.

Isn't it down to a good manager to "manage" expectations and be realistic, particularly one that has been round the block a fair few times?

expe wrote:

DMA1987 wrote:

expe wrote: You've said the exact same thing earlier in this thread. The fight was live on primetime, Hobson's other option was Sky, where he would have been forced into a co-promotion with Eddie Hearn, forcing him to lose even more money. 4,000 people showed up for an unknown fighter at bantamweight, hardly a popular division here and McDonnell made £160,000, far more than Burns, Cleverly and Froch made for their first world title fights. He forked out for Ceja to travel to Doncaster, managed to get Howard Foster, another Doncaster man, as referee and Dave Parris as one of the judges, I fail to see what more he could have done. You suggest he's done something 'despicable', possibly pressurising the IBF to strip Jamie, exactly what he deserves. He lined up a TV deal with Allegedly channel for future fights and was seemingly ready to announce the first defence. For a man with no TV deal, a limited fighter who's rarely in exciting fights and has no major fanbase, I'd say he did a brilliant job, only to be fucked over by a combination of McDonnell and Eddie Hearn performing his usual role of tapping up fighter's under contract. Hobson isn't employed as a promoter either, McDonnell is or was employed by him as a fighter.

Whilst I agree with nearly everything you have written, do you have any proof that Hearn tapped him up? Or any other fighters?

Don't let your bias get in the way of a great post.

No evidence, but Hobson has mentioned outside influences and numerous fighters seem to be leaving their promoters(usually warren) and signing for Hearn days later. For a contract to be agreed, read through by lawyers, signed and announced in such a short space of time is pushing it, Stephen Smith moved very quickly. I'm not questioning the rights of fighters to leave their promoters if there's a breach of contract, just that they seem to all move to the same promoter and very quickly, suggesting negotiations may have started before the termination of the contract.

You are cooking stuff up in you head. Your first 2 words answered the question. Things can easily happen that quickly. Look at football. What other promoter would they move to?

I'm looking forward to jamie teaming up with Hearn to be honest I think Hearn will promote him properly and turn him into an household name that's just my opionion

Just because there's no paper trail or smoking gun doesn't mean it's not going on; in football agents and backhanders and bags full of cash and accounts in Monaco are legion, they move fast in football and other sports because everything is primed beforehand.

If McDonnell does well under Hearn then he's done the best for himself - by putting on the Ceja bout at the Keepmoat and getting a Doncaster ref (not easy and I imagine expensive) Hobson did his best for Jamie.

If you honestly think that Eddie sits on a cloud and does not speak to a boxer or send sweet murmerings about how green the grass is in Brentwood then I've got a bridge to sell that you'll be able to make money on.

DMA1987 wrote:

expe wrote:

DMA1987 wrote: Whilst I agree with nearly everything you have written, do you have any proof that Hearn tapped him up? Or any other fighters?

Don't let your bias get in the way of a great post.

No evidence, but Hobson has mentioned outside influences and numerous fighters seem to be leaving their promoters(usually warren) and signing for Hearn days later. For a contract to be agreed, read through by lawyers, signed and announced in such a short space of time is pushing it, Stephen Smith moved very quickly. I'm not questioning the rights of fighters to leave their promoters if there's a breach of contract, just that they seem to all move to the same promoter and very quickly, suggesting negotiations may have started before the termination of the contract.

You are cooking stuff up in you head. Your first 2 words answered the question. Things can easily happen that quickly. Look at football. What other promoter would they move to?

In football a player can speak to other clubs 6 months from the end of his contract and agents will be making overtures before that, plus, footballers can engineer moves very easily, with transfer fees to compensate the current club, for a fighter, to walk away from a promotional contract isn't always easy. Footballers are paid weekly, so they have a guaranteed source of income, whereas boxers have to wait for the next fight to get paid, unless they are paid a retainer. So they would want to be sure about what they are signing.

If they are paid a retainer would that come out of their next purse? If a boxer was paid so they didn't have to work full time and could concentrate on their training how would the fighter pay that back? Would it be paid out of a larger purse or through having a smaller purse in their next bout? Would that explain a big purse for a title challenge and a smaller one for a defense?

The purse can depend on a lot of factors but often a promoter will put in a big bid to win the purse bid (if it's a vacant title etc) to secure home advantages and all the rest of it.

I know we're sort of flogging a dead horse to death here and lots of speculation and conjecture but if the product being promoted isn't selling well, who is at fault? The product or the promoter? Or a bit of both, with perhaps both having slightly unrealistic expectations? At what point do you stop throwing good money after "bad" and either cut your losses or perhaps re-think?

That's probably the most conciliatory post that will be on this thread we'll see what happens in the future for all concerned; (If Jon Jo Irwin had hit the big time I don't ever believe he'd have dumped Johnny Rushton and gone with someone with more clout, I can see that boxing is a short career and also that a boxer starting out understands that; it isn't an epiphany that falls on a boxer AFTER he's got a world title). Lets see how magic Eddie really is

Yeah, that's a decent shout. I think Jon and Jamie are different people though but I don't know Jamie at all to comment further, just a very shallow viewpoint based on nothing really than observations and whatnot. Knowing his dad really well for years, Jon's cut from the same cloth, very loyal and a genuine guy. That said, John Rushton was the sort of person who would make you sandwiches and take them a tuperware box to the venue - It was that sort of arrangement.

I made a point (in this thread I think?) about his last 5-6 fights being on different promotions for a variety of reasons.

I think John Rushton was his manager, and never his promoter, and a lot of his big fights were on FW promotions (albeit tucked way down the undercards) - Therein lies a bit of a difference. I know it's said that Dennis is his promoter but he's also his manager - Is that were we're comparing apples with pears (rather than oranges) and there's also a bit of a conflict of interests?

I think Eddie is the sort of promoter who will maximise his earnings and potential and he'll have him on at the Sheffield Arena and stuck on a couple of SKY/PPV UCs, but we've yet to see what happens to one of his charges after a catastrophic loss, maybe we will see the standard FW clause of two losses and you're gone mate or will we see a more benevolent approach where he spends time and money rebuilding...I suspect he has more to him than the perception we get "given" and there's a cold business is business streak to him.

It was obvious to me a while ago he'd had a word in his shell-like as he started using twitter (lol)