BoxRec

as far as il douchebag is concerned...we need more hairy arses !!!!!!

If Perez was favouring Ali why did Perez stop the 2nd round very early after Frazier was hurt by a right hand and on shaky legs?

Controversial wrote:If Perez was favouring Ali why did Perez stop the 2nd round very early after Frazier was hurt by a right hand and on shaky legs?

Asked and answered.

Tony Perez wanted to start a new custom of giving fighters respites during rounds as well as between them.

Il Duce wrote:

Controversial wrote:If Perez was favouring Ali why did Perez stop the 2nd round very early after Frazier was hurt by a right hand and on shaky legs?

You will just have to ask Tony Perez that one.

Maybe, Tony wanted to see Muhammad Ali 'foul' Joe Frazier a bunch more.

Tony Perez was 'one bad referee'.

Should Controversial also ask Tony why he unilaterally decided to throw away over hundred years of boxing tradition and give a boxer a respite during a round instead of between them?

Il Duce...that is a fair question.


Why have you NEVER addressed or responded to the other side of this equation. Does it not exist? Or is it because it is a 20 to 1 issue?

It appears you do not even recognize his errors in Joe's favor.

Like you say, he may have simply been a bad referee. But he did not seem to be a bias referee....even if the cookie that was his "lameness" happened to crumble one way or the other.

Is that a fair statement?

Or do you take exception to that assessment?

BoxBuzz wrote:Il Duce...that is a fair question.


Why have you NEVER addressed or responded to the other side of this equation. Does it not exist? Or is it because it is a 20 to 1 issue?

It appears you do not even recognize his errors in Joe's favor.

Like you say, he may have simply been a bad referee. But he did not seem to be a bias referee....even if the cookie that was his "lameness" happened to crumble one way or the other.

Is that a fair statement?

Or do you take exception to that assessment?

Hanlon's Razor-Never attribute to malice that which can equally be attributed to incompetence.

Oh, Frazier probably doesn't go down but he might have taken some more shots that slowed him down for the rest of the evening. For instance Jimmy Ellis said in his fight with Ali that a straight right he received in the second round affected him for the rest of the fight.

ThatOne wrote:

BoxBuzz wrote:Il Duce...that is a fair question.


Why have you NEVER addressed or responded to the other side of this equation. Does it not exist? Or is it because it is a 20 to 1 issue?

It appears you do not even recognize his errors in Joe's favor.

Like you say, he may have simply been a bad referee. But he did not seem to be a bias referee....even if the cookie that was his "lameness" happened to crumble one way or the other.

Is that a fair statement?

Or do you take exception to that assessment?

"Oh, Frazier probably doesn't go down but he might have taken some more shots that slowed him down for the rest of the evening."
That One


Don't tell Buzz this, he thinks Joe was ready to go.

Now Yancey....be fair here.

All I've really said...is we will never know.

I know I don't know.

But I "imagine" Joe would have been in trouble.

You just as honorably imagine Joe was just taking a breather. Perhaps just letting those pitty pats bounce off of his face, acting like a good cup of espresso.

BoxBuzz wrote:Now Yancey....be fair here.

All I've really said...is we will never know.

I know I don't know.

But I "imagine" Joe would have been in trouble.

You just as honorably imagine Joe was just taking a breather. Perhaps just letting those pitty pats bounce off of his face, acting like a good cup of espresso.

I'm just thankful that Perez stepped in before Ali could come with the "anchor" punch.

Joe would have been laid out for sure.

yancey wrote:

BoxBuzz wrote:Now Yancey....be fair here.

All I've really said...is we will never know.

I know I don't know.

But I "imagine" Joe would have been in trouble.

You just as honorably imagine Joe was just taking a breather. Perhaps just letting those pitty pats bounce off of his face, acting like a good cup of espresso.

I'm just thankful that Perez stepped in before Ali could come with the "anchor" punch.

Joe would have been laid out for sure.

Well.....of course....but wiley Joe was not going to fall for that trap.

Joe never fell for an anchor punch from anyone.

In fact...even as hard as George hit him.....He was never really stopped.

Not even in Manilla. Took George and a ref the first time....and Ali and a cornerman the second time.

Il Duce wrote:

Il Duce wrote:

BoxBuzz wrote:Did Joe think he won all three fights?

How bitter was he at the judges in fight two?


Not sure we've heard that from Il Duce to this point.

Just curious.

Joe Frazier vs. Muhammad Ali II

Based upon the 'incessant' fouling and continuous holding in a nearly uncountable number
of 'cuffing fouls'.

I had Joe Frazier ahead on Points {10-Point Must System}.......114-108

Muhammad Ali loses '7-Points' for Fouls in Rounds; {1, 3, 5, 7, 10, 11 and 12}.

I don't tolerate that 'unclean, unwashed and filthy' stuff.

Joe, doesn't lie.

LMFAO, Ali put on a clinic ...

Il...

I just went back and checked the record book again.....

Same winner as last week when I looked.

Let me know if you see anything different.

BoxBuzz wrote:Il...

I just went back and checked the record book again.....

Same winner as last week when I looked.

Let me know if you see anything different.

The judges scores were 8-4, 7-4-1, and 6-5-1, all in favor of Ali. I scored the fight 9-3 for Ali. What made this fight night and day from their first battle was that Frazier was unable to dictate the tempo of the fight. He only connected sporadically with his left hook, and he spent most of the time trying to duck and slip and roll with Ali’s flurries. When he did get inside with a short chopping shot to the hips or to the body, Ali tied him up so that he could not press his advantage.

I tried to score this fight as objectively as I could, and I could not see where Frazier deserved this decision. Ali’s second fight with Norton was close, but the second fight with Frazier was not because Frazier had a hard time coping with Ali’s fast hands. Frazier would go on from this to win return matches with Jerry Quarry and Jimmy Ellis. Then he would meet Ali in a rubber match in what turned out to be one of the greatest fights of all time.


http://www.eastsideboxing.com/weblog/ne ... 813&more=1

The unofficial AP scorecard had Ali winning 8-4, and the unofficial UPI scorecard had Ali ahead 7-4-1.

Il Duce wrote:Following this bout

'Vise Grip' offered Muhammad Ali $1,000,000 to endorse their product.

A 'new' Product Line..........called the 'Ali'.

You know...I followed up on this....and found this to be:

More Fanciful, harmless banter.

Il Duce wrote:Round 2

{0:07} > Muhammad Ali comes out 'flying' around the Ring' very fast. Almost like he missed his Flight to Vietnam.

{0:09} > Muhammad throws 'slapping' type punches, in a strictly amateur style.

{0:11} > Joe Frazier starts laughing, as he chases the 'running' Muhammad Ali.

{0:15} > Joe Frazier traps Muhammad Ali, and 'nails' him with a left hook.

{0:17} > Muhammad Ali is back on the move, running faster than anyone has ever seen before.

{0:23} > Muhammad Ali tries '3' left hooks, and misses badly with each one.

{0:26} > Joe Frazier stalks a fleeing Muhammad Ali.

{0:33} > Muhammad misses 'badly' with a right uppercut.

{0:35} > Muhammad Ali misses badly with left hook, and grabs Joe Frazier, while holding on for dear life.

{0:42} > Muhammad Ali 'holds' on to Joe Frazier for '6-Seconds', as Referee Tony Perez forces Muhammad Ali to let go.

Surely people have run faster in Track and Field, no?

"LMFAO, Ali put on a clinic ..." ThatOne



ThatOne, since you seem to emphasize how broad minded you are, how do you truly assess Ali's tactics in the second fight?

Did they bother you at all?

BoxBuzz wrote:

yancey wrote:

BoxBuzz wrote:Now Yancey....be fair here.

All I've really said...is we will never know.

I know I don't know.

But I "imagine" Joe would have been in trouble.

You just as honorably imagine Joe was just taking a breather. Perhaps just letting those pitty pats bounce off of his face, acting like a good cup of espresso.

I'm just thankful that Perez stepped in before Ali could come with the "anchor" punch.

Joe would have been laid out for sure.

Well.....of course....but wiley Joe was not going to fall for that trap.

Joe never fell for an anchor punch from anyone.

In fact...even as hard as George hit him.....He was never really stopped.

Not even in Manilla. Took George and a ref the first time....and Ali and a cornerman the second time.

Joking in my prior post, of course.

Ali was not going to knock out Joe.

yancey wrote:"LMFAO, Ali put on a clinic ..." ThatOne



ThatOne, since you seem to emphasize how broad minded you are, how do you truly assess Ali's tactics in the second fight?

Did they bother you at all?

Holding is part of boxing. As Tony Perez said "all Frazier, being the shorter man, had to do was slip down to break the clinch. But he seemed to be enjoying the respite."

Il Duce wrote:

ThatOne wrote:

yancey wrote:"LMFAO, Ali put on a clinic ..." ThatOne



ThatOne, since you seem to emphasize how broad minded you are, how do you truly assess Ali's tactics in the second fight?

Did they bother you at all?

Holding is part of boxing. As Tony Perez said "all Frazier, being the shorter man, had to do was slip down to break the clinch. But he seemed to be enjoying the respite."

Not so sure about 'That One'

Mid-way through the 1st-Round, Muhammad Ali pushed very hard on Joe Frazier's neck, and Joe pointed
to the back of his neck with his right-hand.

Referee - Tony Perez was too busy, combing his hair......... "Didn't see it Joe"

I'm just being loyal to the facts as I always am. Mr. Perez said Joe seemed to be enjoying the rest:

Ali was awarded a unanimous decision over Frazier. Judge Jack Gordon scored the fight 8-4, judge Tony Castellano scored it 7-4-1, and referee Tony Perez had it 6-5-1. The unofficial AP scorecard had Ali winning 8-4, and the unofficial UPI scorecard had Ali ahead 7-4-1.

Il Duce wrote:Tony Castellano {New York State Scoring Official}

As per the guidelines set forth by the N.Y.S.A.C, - I can only follow the direction of the
Referee, in regard to point deductions.

Personally, I saw '26' flagrant fouls committed by Muhammad Ali, and a host of others
that warranted a 'break-in-the-action' and admonishing Mr. Ali for the 'fouls committed'.

Repeated fouls would have warranted a Disqualification, if I was in charge.

Tony Castellano...........

Have you ever spoke the truth once in your life? Constant lying is the sine qua non of a sociopath.

Ali was awarded a unanimous decision over Frazier. Judge Jack Gordon scored the fight 8-4, judge Tony Castellano scored it 7-4-1, and referee Tony Perez had it 6-5-1. The unofficial AP scorecard had Ali winning 8-4, and the unofficial UPI scorecard had Ali ahead 7-4-1.

Il Duce sees Ali's fights differently to normal people. As I've said before thank goodness he's not a boxing judge - he would come up with some very strange scorecards!

SteveO wrote:Il Duce sees Ali's fights differently to normal people. As I've said before thank goodness he's not a boxing judge - he would come up with some very strange scorecards!

The Ducer lives in his own version of reality. It's a land where the sane never intrude.

Il Duce wrote:

SteveO wrote:Il Duce sees Ali's fights differently to normal people. As I've said before thank goodness he's not a boxing judge - he would come up with some very strange scorecards!

Prove that you are impartial........How many holds from Muhammad Ali in this bout.

If you were the Referee, would you have 'warned him', or 'kissed his coolie'.

As the referee I would have expected a veteran fighter to know how to break off a clinch. As Perez said "Joe seemed to be enjoying the rest." Maybe that's why he gave Joe rests during rounds as opposed to giving him and Muhammad the customary rest between rounds.