BoxRec

jamesmcdonnell wrote:I can't really think of a super middle that would have bombed Froch out to be honest. He's definitely got one of the best chins, and even better powers of recovery I've ever seen.

I think the James Toney who beat Iran Barkley would have handed out a similar beating to Froch before stopping him in the later rounds.

jamesmcdonnell wrote:

Fuzzy Warbles wrote:

jamesmcdonnell wrote:I'm not saying Froch cannot be stopped, but I'm saying it would have to be a gradual beatdown, and probably one where the ref rescues him from himself.

Benn was never really a Supermiddle (I think he just went to 12st to chase a rematch with Eubank) and he wasn't quite the same puncher at the higher weight, so I tend to agree he wouldn't have been able to bang out Froch who (for his MANY limitations) had a really good chin.

I can't really think of a super middle that would have bombed Froch out to be honest. He's definitely got one of the best chins, and even better powers of recovery I've ever seen.

I think Hearns-Froch at supermiddle would be an interesting match. I'm a Hearns fan, but he wasn't at his best at 168.

Fuzzy Warbles wrote:

jamesmcdonnell wrote:I can't really think of a super middle that would have bombed Froch out to be honest. He's definitely got one of the best chins, and even better powers of recovery I've ever seen.

I think the James Toney who beat Iran Barkley would have handed out a similar beating to Froch before stopping him in the later rounds.

Is that the same Barkley that Benn bombed out in one round? Barkley was spent by the time he fought Toney and James gets far too much credit for that fight.

I'm surprised at Nigel Benn.

How can he question a man who has had the toughest run of fights of any top flight fighter of the last half a dozen years simply because he isn't going to fight an opponent who has only just won a trinket?

Froch does not need to fight DeGale at all.

Froch's legacy is secure, DeGale or no DeGale.

keithmoonhangover wrote:I think Hearns-Froch at supermiddle would be an interesting match. I'm a Hearns fan, but he wasn't at his best at 168.

And what about Barkley v Froch (especially the Barkley of the second Hearns fight) ?

[/quote]

I think Hearns-Froch at supermiddle would be an interesting match. I'm a Hearns fan, but he wasn't at his best at 168.[/quote]

Think Froch would have taken a hammering in the first few, then broken Tommy Down - Hearns was brittle at 168.

keithmoonhangover wrote:Is that the same Barkley that Benn bombed out in one round? Barkley was spent by the time he fought Toney and James gets far too much credit for that fight.

A 'spent force' who beat Thomas Hearns for the 175lbs title two fights before

Syntax Error wrote:I'm surprised at Nigel Benn.

How can he question a man who has had the toughest run of fights of any top flight fighter of the last half a dozen years simply because he isn't going to fight an opponent who has only just won a trinket?

Froch does not need to fight DeGale at all.

Froch's legacy is secure, DeGale or no DeGale.

IMO, I don't think Froch could motivate himself for a DeGale fight. I think he would have come into the ring and not giving his best and that is not what I would want to see.

Any fighters who retires as champion can be criticized, as there is always someone else in line. My dad swore down that Marciano was concerned about Patterson's hand speed.

keithmoonhangover wrote:

Syntax Error wrote:I'm surprised at Nigel Benn.

How can he question a man who has had the toughest run of fights of any top flight fighter of the last half a dozen years simply because he isn't going to fight an opponent who has only just won a trinket?

Froch does not need to fight DeGale at all.

Froch's legacy is secure, DeGale or no DeGale.

IMO, I don't think Froch could motivate himself for a DeGale fight. I think he would have come into the ring and not giving his best and that is not what I would want to see.

Any fighters who retires as champion can be criticized, as there is always someone else in line. My dad swore down that Marciano was concerned about Patterson's hand speed.

Keith, ever watched the first Patterson fight with Ali - he gave Ali absolute murders, until he got stopped - rather prematurely in my opinion, due to a swollen eye. I always thought he got jobbed in that fight.

jamesmcdonnell wrote:

keithmoonhangover wrote:

Syntax Error wrote:I'm surprised at Nigel Benn.

How can he question a man who has had the toughest run of fights of any top flight fighter of the last half a dozen years simply because he isn't going to fight an opponent who has only just won a trinket?

Froch does not need to fight DeGale at all.

Froch's legacy is secure, DeGale or no DeGale.

IMO, I don't think Froch could motivate himself for a DeGale fight. I think he would have come into the ring and not giving his best and that is not what I would want to see.

Any fighters who retires as champion can be criticized, as there is always someone else in line. My dad swore down that Marciano was concerned about Patterson's hand speed.

Keith, ever watched the first Patterson fight with Ali - he gave Ali absolute murders, until he got stopped - rather prematurely in my opinion, due to a swollen eye. I always thought he got jobbed in that fight.

I'm inclined to agree. Patterson was fantastic, vulnerable, but fantastic. Some fighters just come across a boxer who is all wrong for them, like Frazier and Foreman. Liston was a puzzle Patterson could never solve. I do think the absolute best boxers will find a way to win, or win the rematch. I'm talking Johnson, Dempsey, Louis, Marciano, Ali, Holmes and Tyson. In their primes, they would find a way to unlock the puzzle.

All the more remarkable when you consider Patterson was probably a natural lightheavy (he was at one point being considered as a challenger for Bob Foster's title)

Marciano, whilst fortunate to be in an era when the best talents were nearing the end of long careers, found a way to overcome both Moore, Charles who was giving him murders, and Walcott, who was boxing his ears off. He was a master at imposing his will - and definitely benefitted from an incredible pain tolerance, and physical toughness. His power for a man of his size was nothing short of phenomenal. The shot he hit Walcott with would have hurt any man.

We had an "evening with" Benn in April and he was complimentary about Froch. I don't know if he's still pals with Mendy but that would explain him going on about DeGale.

Fuzzy Warbles wrote:All the more remarkable when you consider Patterson was probably a natural lightheavy (he was at one point being considered as a challenger for Bob Foster's title)

Patterson did well against Henry Cooper.

palooka wrote:

Fuzzy Warbles wrote:All the more remarkable when you consider Patterson was probably a natural lightheavy (he was at one point being considered as a challenger for Bob Foster's title)

Patterson did well against Henry Cooper.

Not sure what point you're trying to make there, Keith was saying what a 'fantastic' fighter Patterson was, I agreed and saying he was probably a 'natural lightheavy', now you pop up saying he 'did well' against Cooper.

He 'did well' against a lot of fighters MUCH better than Cooper, why evoke that result alone?

mickey1975 wrote:We had an "evening with" Benn in April and he was complimentary about Froch. I don't know if he's still pals with Mendy but that would explain him going on about DeGale.

'We' ?

Fuzzy Warbles wrote:

palooka wrote:

Fuzzy Warbles wrote:All the more remarkable when you consider Patterson was probably a natural lightheavy (he was at one point being considered as a challenger for Bob Foster's title)

Patterson did well against Henry Cooper.

Not sure what point you're trying to make there, Keith was saying what a 'fantastic' fighter Patterson was, I agreed and saying he was probably a 'natural lightheavy', now you pop up saying he 'did well' against Cooper.

He 'did well' against a lot of fighters MUCH better than Cooper, why evoke that result alone?

Because he knocked Cooper cold and I don't think that many achieved that, Patterson seems to be remembered more for his speed and skills but he had tremendous power.

Syntax Error wrote:Froch's legacy is secure, DeGale or no DeGale.

Yes, he will always be known as the man who was outclassed by Andre Ward but never (NEVER) chased a rematch.

palooka wrote:Because he knocked Cooper cold and I don't think that many achieved that, Patterson seems to be remembered more for his speed and skills but he had tremendous power.

Cooper says in his biography it was the cleanest stoppage he ever suffered and Patterson had the quickest hands of any fighter (including Ali) he ever fought.

Fuzzy Warbles wrote:

palooka wrote:Because he knocked Cooper cold and I don't think that many achieved that, Patterson seems to be remembered more for his speed and skills but he had tremendous power.

Cooper says in his biography it was the cleanest stoppage he ever suffered and Patterson had the quickest hands of any fighter (including Ali) he ever fought.

I can remember seeing some of the bout and the KO punch was a monster and absolutely spot on target. I've read Patterson's autobiography and he was a very intelligent and complex man, he was very rare and unusual.

palooka wrote:A very intelligent and complex man, he was very rare and unusual.

Indeed and he seemed a troubled soul in many ways, cursed with low self esteem. Here's the fight (poor quality though) KO is around 6.17 (right hander too, I thought it was a left hook for some reason)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=srVkQsf4OEk

Fuzzy Warbles wrote:

mickey1975 wrote:We had an "evening with" Benn in April and he was complimentary about Froch. I don't know if he's still pals with Mendy but that would explain him going on about DeGale.

'We' ?

Yes, our gym.

mickey1975 wrote:Yes, our gym.

Bit vague though Mick, you seem to best friends with every boxer who's ever lived in Leeds and privy to the activities of every gym in Leeds.

Fuzzy Warbles wrote:

mickey1975 wrote:Yes, our gym.

Bit vague though Mick, you seem to best friends with every boxer who's ever lived in Leeds and privy to the activities of every gym in Leeds.

Even though it's in York? £50 a ticket, buffet and photo included at the gym I go to, what's vague about that? I attend a lot of amateur shows and know a few pros, what's so unbelievable? Because I actually go to shows? I know a load on here don't, but I've been around a while. I can't believe I'm explaining myself!

Fuzzy Warbles wrote:

mickey1975 wrote:Yes, our gym.

Bit vague though Mick, you seem to best friends with every boxer who's ever lived in Leeds and privy to the activities of every gym in Leeds.

And my best friend in boxing is Tijuana1, and I'm a good pal of Henry Wharton, both from York!