BoxRec

For some reason, I'm now thinking of the athlete Jarmila Kratochvilova. What a specimen she was...

Her 400 and 800 times are ridiculously far fetched. Also recall her racing and dead heating with Marita Koch over 200! The equivalent of Seb Coe deat heating Bolt over 200. Madness.

BigGar wrote:For some reason, I'm now thinking of the athlete Jarmila Kratochvilova. What a specimen she was...

Her 400 and 800 times are ridiculously far fetched. Also recall her racing and dead heating with Marita Koch over 200! The equivalent of Seb Coe deat heating Bolt over 200. Madness.

Yes, I remember her well, very very butch looking.

I read an article about the drugs they were taking back then, the women taking them were basically almost male, but then they were able to test for them easily, and the classes of artificial hormones they had to use afterward, were nowhere near as powerful.

BigGar wrote:For some reason, I'm now thinking of the athlete Jarmila Kratochvilova. What a specimen she was...

Her 400 and 800 times are ridiculously far fetched. Also recall her racing and dead heating with Marita Koch over 200! The equivalent of Seb Coe deat heating Bolt over 200. Madness.

Flo Jo's 100 meter record doesn't look like it's getting beat for a long long time. Marion Jones got relatively close, but we all know what she was up to.

Counter-puncher wrote:

jamesmcdonnell wrote:

evrenb wrote:
I bet athletes know when other athletes are juicing...

Johnson said it without actually mentioning drugs. It was clear though what he was insinuating. Chambers looked like a side of beef.

Johnson is a fine one to talk I saw his tricep increase by about an inch in the space of a year

Yeah that’s happened to me before when I do a lot of dips off the side of the bath. I’d swear mine’s increased by that in a night.

jamesmcdonnell wrote:

magwitch wrote:

jamesmcdonnell wrote:
I think it's VERY likely Christie cheated during his career, he ran his best times over the age of 30, (from memory) which flies in the face of biology (rather like Gatlin, He improved pretty dramatically over a 2-3 year period, going from someone who barely made the finals to Olympic champ.

At 34, Gatlin is still running 9.8 - which suggests to me, he's still at it, just not getting caught doing so.

Well, no expert on it but he was upgraded to Bronze in 88....or Silver in fact (should he have been upgraded to Gold, perhaps?)....he was probably too young in 84 to make an impact, he won it in ’92 and was regrettably (but probably correctly) flung off the grid in ’96.
During that time he won the World Champs at least once and I would suspect the Europeans and Commonwealths too.....so he hardly came from nowhere in a 2 or a 3yr period...

On the age front, I found it quite unlikely that Bolt came into London on the back of a bad season - a lot of people had Blake to beat him - and in spite of this, he shaved a further 0.01 seconds off his own insanely fast world record.

Bolt ran his world record in Berlin in 2009, he has not gotten close to it since. He was 22 when he ran it, he's 29 now, and appears to be declining, though his best is still better than anybody elses so far.

Appears you are correct there. 2009 is his high watermark. I got mixed up with the 0.01 second improvement. Bolt won Beijing in 9.69 and then somehow beat it in London, running 9.63.
But yes, in between that (Berlin 2009) he ran 9.58, which I believe is the current WR (on some freaky blue coloured track that looks bouncy as f*ck).

magwitch wrote:

jamesmcdonnell wrote:

magwitch wrote:
Well, no expert on it but he was upgraded to Bronze in 88....or Silver in fact (should he have been upgraded to Gold, perhaps?)....he was probably too young in 84 to make an impact, he won it in ’92 and was regrettably (but probably correctly) flung off the grid in ’96.
During that time he won the World Champs at least once and I would suspect the Europeans and Commonwealths too.....so he hardly came from nowhere in a 2 or a 3yr period...

On the age front, I found it quite unlikely that Bolt came into London on the back of a bad season - a lot of people had Blake to beat him - and in spite of this, he shaved a further 0.01 seconds off his own insanely fast world record.

Bolt ran his world record in Berlin in 2009, he has not gotten close to it since. He was 22 when he ran it, he's 29 now, and appears to be declining, though his best is still better than anybody elses so far.

Appears you are correct there. 2009 is his high watermark. I got mixed up with the 0.01 second improvement. Bolt won Beijing in 9.69 and then somehow beat it in London, running 9.63.
But yes, in between that (Berlin 2009) he ran 9.58, which I believe is the current WR (on some freaky blue coloured track that looks bouncy as f*ck).

Was it ever in doubt?

Caster Semenya doesn't take drugs but has the natural testerone levels of a bloke.
As she's not breaking the rules she's allowed to run but in theory she's unbeatable because of her dodgy genetics.

She will win the 800m in Rio by about 20 metres.

magwitch wrote:

jamesmcdonnell wrote:

magwitch wrote:
Well, no expert on it but he was upgraded to Bronze in 88....or Silver in fact (should he have been upgraded to Gold, perhaps?)....he was probably too young in 84 to make an impact, he won it in ’92 and was regrettably (but probably correctly) flung off the grid in ’96.
During that time he won the World Champs at least once and I would suspect the Europeans and Commonwealths too.....so he hardly came from nowhere in a 2 or a 3yr period...

On the age front, I found it quite unlikely that Bolt came into London on the back of a bad season - a lot of people had Blake to beat him - and in spite of this, he shaved a further 0.01 seconds off his own insanely fast world record.

Bolt ran his world record in Berlin in 2009, he has not gotten close to it since. He was 22 when he ran it, he's 29 now, and appears to be declining, though his best is still better than anybody elses so far.

Appears you are correct there. 2009 is his high watermark. I got mixed up with the 0.01 second improvement. Bolt won Beijing in 9.69 and then somehow beat it in London, running 9.63.
But yes, in between that (Berlin 2009) he ran 9.58, which I believe is the current WR (on some freaky blue coloured track that looks bouncy as f*ck).

Unfortunately the problem with Bolt is not necessarily his ability is diminishing, he is just downright lazy. It's not new either, it became a massive problem when he was a junior and never changed. Even Johnson highlighted his unprofessionalism, and lack of application. Which when you think about it meant he was the best in the world by a long way with never even trying!

Just think what he could have run? He could have run 9.4 secs in 100m, sub 19 secs in 200m and probably taken the 400m record out of reach too.

jamesmcdonnell wrote:

BigGar wrote:For some reason, I'm now thinking of the athlete Jarmila Kratochvilova. What a specimen she was...

Her 400 and 800 times are ridiculously far fetched. Also recall her racing and dead heating with Marita Koch over 200! The equivalent of Seb Coe deat heating Bolt over 200. Madness.

Flo Jo's 100 meter record doesn't look like it's getting beat for a long long time. Marion Jones got relatively close, but we all know what she was up to.

Flo Jo is probably one of the most controversial stories in the history of Athletics. A woman that reduced her 100m best time by 0.27 seconds and 200m best time by 0.37 second in ONE year. The woman who retired the year before they brought in random testing.

There were even claims by the Doping Control Centre in Seoul (the location of the 1988 Olympics) that 20 athletes had failed tests, but for some 'split votes' amongst the IOC medical commission - whatever that means - they were not punished.

Even American 400m runner, Darrell Robinson, claimed he supplied her with HGH. Carl Lewis made numerous references to her case in his autobiography of her change in level, the 'muscles popping everywhere' and the classic deep voice syndrome. She probably had to have a shave before each race. She used to hide the acne commonly associated with steroid use with thick makeup.

Then finally, the mysterious and very premature death (at the age of 38), of 'natural causes'.

PredatorHayds wrote:Caster Semenya doesn't take drugs but has the natural testerone levels of a bloke.
As she's not breaking the rules she's allowed to run but in theory she's unbeatable because of her dodgy genetics.

She will win the 800m in Rio by about 20 metres.

Yeah but Bolt has won everything he has because of genetics.

In most cases there's two main factors which play into the success of an athlete. Genetics and hard work. The ratios of how much they influence the end product I think depend of what the genetic makeup are saying at the start. Bolt has managed to achieve what he has with something like 90% genetics and 10% hard work. You could argue Johnson was maybe something more like 60% genetics and 40% hard work.

Imagine Bolt was able to match his talent with hard work? The records would never be broken.

Can I just say - do any of you remember Alf Tupper? He was a world class 400 and 800 yards runner in the 1960's. He trained on fish and chips, and sometimes won his races wearing welding gear.
What a guy!

dalcumly wrote:Can I just say - do any of you remember Alf Tupper? He was a world class 400 and 800 yards runner in the 1960's. He trained on fish and chips, and sometimes won his races wearing welding gear.
What a guy!

Of course. I read Victor magazine for about 2 years. You’ll not hear me saying that fish n chips are bad for you....tell it to someone who’s got no food. Tupper was known as the Tough of the Track.

Rob3_142 wrote:

PredatorHayds wrote:Caster Semenya doesn't take drugs but has the natural testerone levels of a bloke.
As she's not breaking the rules she's allowed to run but in theory she's unbeatable because of her dodgy genetics.

She will win the 800m in Rio by about 20 metres.

Yeah but Bolt has won everything he has because of genetics.

In most cases there's two main factors which play into the success of an athlete. Genetics and hard work. The ratios of how much they influence the end product I think depend of what the genetic makeup are saying at the start. Bolt has managed to achieve what he has with something like 90% genetics and 10% hard work. You could argue Johnson was maybe something more like 60% genetics and 40% hard work.

Imagine Bolt was able to match his talent with hard work? The records would never be broken.

10% hard work? You should get yourself along for a fortnight’s training camp with him then..

Sorry to go temporarily off topic for a minute but I’ve read today that Fury’s ban has been lifted and he can fight Wlad subject to an INTERIM HEARING in the meantime.
What the hell is it about this sport and the word “interim”? I never ever see it anywhere else. Even the hearings are interim. So presumably, when this “interim hearing” takes place, the fight could still be blown out of the water and from what I can gather it sounds like it will fall on whether some panel believe one set of events or another, related to February 2015. Is that right?

Rob3_142 wrote:

PredatorHayds wrote:Caster Semenya doesn't take drugs but has the natural testerone levels of a bloke.
As she's not breaking the rules she's allowed to run but in theory she's unbeatable because of her dodgy genetics.

She will win the 800m in Rio by about 20 metres.

Yeah but Bolt has won everything he has because of genetics.

In most cases there's two main factors which play into the success of an athlete. Genetics and hard work. The ratios of how much they influence the end product I think depend of what the genetic makeup are saying at the start. Bolt has managed to achieve what he has with something like 90% genetics and 10% hard work. You could argue Johnson was maybe something more like 60% genetics and 40% hard work.

Imagine Bolt was able to match his talent with hard work? The records would never be broken.

They all have great genetics, you think he's the only one? Bolt has a freakish build, and I also think it's because he refused to be persuaded to do the 200/400 route, he doesn't fit the mould of the 100 meter runner, but you watch, there's going to be other kids like him coming through, tall, gangly types who will change what everyone thinks a 100 meter runner should look like.

You think bolt doesn't work hard, horseshit, he may hate training, but he still has to train like a demon, you think because he eats chicken nuggets he's some kind of slob, it's a nice story, but I don't buy it, I saw a video of him training before, and he was puking his guts up at the end of it.

Bolt didn't land from space, he's got great athletic genes, but to suggest he's gotten there on his genetics alone is pure unadulterated balderdash. No athlete gets there without hard work in todays sport, no matter how tall, or unusually built. He will have been pushed to his limit many times in training, maybe against his will, but just because he makes it look easy, don't imagine for a second it is.

magwitch wrote:

Rob3_142 wrote:

PredatorHayds wrote:Caster Semenya doesn't take drugs but has the natural testerone levels of a bloke.
As she's not breaking the rules she's allowed to run but in theory she's unbeatable because of her dodgy genetics.

She will win the 800m in Rio by about 20 metres.

Yeah but Bolt has won everything he has because of genetics.

In most cases there's two main factors which play into the success of an athlete. Genetics and hard work. The ratios of how much they influence the end product I think depend of what the genetic makeup are saying at the start. Bolt has managed to achieve what he has with something like 90% genetics and 10% hard work. You could argue Johnson was maybe something more like 60% genetics and 40% hard work.

Imagine Bolt was able to match his talent with hard work? The records would never be broken.

10% hard work? You should get yourself along for a fortnight’s training camp with him then..

Precisely, it's a fantasy that he's just some guy who lies around wanking and eating chicken nuggets all day, then gets up, puts his track suit on and breaks the world record.

When it comes to olympics and xheating, it's usually, if you're American they let you get away with it, if you're from a random country they threat you fair and if you're from Russia or eastern Europe they ban you for the slightest thing, even if you turn out to be innocent.

Also, top athletes are often top athletes because of their genetics. When I was 14 I was one of the sportiest kids in my class, somehow there was also a guy on my school who also was 14, but looked like 24, he was 6ft6 or so already and muscled like crazy, he won pretty much everything by distance on sportday, it wasn't even competative. We had to throw a heavy basketball (15kg or so) away as far as we could, most reached about 3 meters, but some up to 7 ish, then he came, and threw it like 20 meters away with one arm.
I used to be the fastest of my class in running on short distance, but I couldn't even come close near catching up with him and still had one of the best times of about 400 kids. I think he could easely have been an olympic in some sports, somehow he never seemed to be interested and became just an avarage nobody.

Of course it's because of their genetics. Howerver, the genetics of those competing at top level are going to be very similar in terms of what determines things like fast twitch fibre proportions, maximal power output etc, the differences are very very small on the whole, the guys who work hardest and/or have the best technique will come out on top. What is often not mentioned about Bolt is how fantastic his technique, he's one of the best out of the blocks, and his technique in full flight is exemplary. He also transitions extremely well for such a big man from the initial phase out of the blocks.

Have you any evidence to support your claims about American athletes being given exceptions, how do you explain the recent glut of American athletes who have had times and titles retroactively stripped after their stored samples were found to be positive?

magwitch wrote:Sorry to go temporarily off topic for a minute but I’ve read today that Fury’s ban has been lifted and he can fight Wlad subject to an INTERIM HEARING in the meantime.
What the hell is it about this sport and the word “interim”? I never ever see it anywhere else. Even the hearings are interim. So presumably, when this “interim hearing” takes place, the fight could still be blown out of the water and from what I can gather it sounds like it will fall on whether some panel believe one set of events or another, related to February 2015. Is that right?

I'm beyond caring right now, I'll wait until there's some sort of decision, I'm sick of hearing about how it's a witchunt, and everyone who comments on the situation is a troll. We'll find out eventually what the feck is going on, because right now, it's as clear as mud.

magwitch wrote:Sorry to go temporarily off topic for a minute but I’ve read today that Fury’s ban has been lifted and he can fight Wlad subject to an INTERIM HEARING in the meantime.
What the hell is it about this sport and the word “interim”? I never ever see it anywhere else. Even the hearings are interim. So presumably, when this “interim hearing” takes place, the fight could still be blown out of the water and from what I can gather it sounds like it will fall on whether some panel believe one set of events or another, related to February 2015. Is that right?

Maybe the right people are just waiting to receive their bungs?

jamesmcdonnell wrote:Of course it's because of their genetics. Howerver, the genetics of those competing at top level are going to be very similar in terms of what determines things like fast twitch fibre proportions, maximal power output etc, the differences are very very small on the whole, the guys who work hardest and/or have the best technique will come out on top. What is often not mentioned about Bolt is how fantastic his technique, he's one of the best out of the blocks, and his technique in full flight is exemplary. He also transitions extremely well for such a big man from the initial phase out of the blocks.

Have you any evidence to support your claims about American athletes being given exceptions, how do you explain the recent glut of American athletes who have had times and titles retroactively stripped after their stored samples were found to be positive?

Funny that the experts where saying that if he could just get his start correct and have his feet and body in the right place the first few meters of a race he would be even faster.

jamesmcdonnell wrote:

magwitch wrote:

Rob3_142 wrote:
Yeah but Bolt has won everything he has because of genetics.

In most cases there's two main factors which play into the success of an athlete. Genetics and hard work. The ratios of how much they influence the end product I think depend of what the genetic makeup are saying at the start. Bolt has managed to achieve what he has with something like 90% genetics and 10% hard work. You could argue Johnson was maybe something more like 60% genetics and 40% hard work.

Imagine Bolt was able to match his talent with hard work? The records would never be broken.

10% hard work? You should get yourself along for a fortnight’s training camp with him then..

Precisely, it's a fantasy that he's just some guy who lies around wanking and eating chicken nuggets all day, then gets up, puts his track suit on and breaks the world record.

Bolt obviously does train but he is naturally faster than anyone else, it is just the way he is built.

Rexob wrote:

jamesmcdonnell wrote:

magwitch wrote:
10% hard work? You should get yourself along for a fortnight’s training camp with him then..

Precisely, it's a fantasy that he's just some guy who lies around wanking and eating chicken nuggets all day, then gets up, puts his track suit on and breaks the world record.

Bolt obviously does train but he is naturally faster than anyone else, it is just the way he is built.

Yes, but he improved dramatically once he took his training seriously. He would not have been able to get to the top without taking his training seriously, that's the reality.

Sklar wrote:

magwitch wrote:Sorry to go temporarily off topic for a minute but I’ve read today that Fury’s ban has been lifted and he can fight Wlad subject to an INTERIM HEARING in the meantime.
What the hell is it about this sport and the word “interim”? I never ever see it anywhere else. Even the hearings are interim. So presumably, when this “interim hearing” takes place, the fight could still be blown out of the water and from what I can gather it sounds like it will fall on whether some panel believe one set of events or another, related to February 2015. Is that right?

Maybe the right people are just waiting to receive their bungs?

I was watching the pair of ’em sitting round a table in a darkened room two weeks ago, and I’m not sure how old the footage was then, with some bloke off Sky. It was pretty sore and tiresome viewing, the thought of it also being for nothing...

Rexob wrote:

jamesmcdonnell wrote:

magwitch wrote:
10% hard work? You should get yourself along for a fortnight’s training camp with him then..

Precisely, it's a fantasy that he's just some guy who lies around wanking and eating chicken nuggets all day, then gets up, puts his track suit on and breaks the world record.

Bolt obviously does train but he is naturally faster than anyone else, it is just the way he is built.

I’ve seen races where he’s just a part of the pack at 30m, 40m, 60m. Then it’s just “See ya”. This man can have the worst start on the block but down the straight it’s as though his race is only 75metres, whilst everyone else is doing the hundred.
It might be a few things....he has a longer stride, he can go stride for stride with more compact guys (think this is referred to as cadence, he can increase his speed better than his opponents - I’m sure his leg length has as much to do with this as comparative fitness. He’s the perfect sprinting machine, for a human.