BoxRec

davie wrote:

PredatorHayds wrote:

dirk2686 wrote:I think it's a reasonable question to ask about whether Fury actually has a mental illness or not. I don't find him or those around him particularly believable, he'd had the PED issue come up, the rematch wasn't selling well at all, he was losing more fans than he was getting with the sexist/homophobic stuff, he'd failed a recreational drug test AND was openly not close to decent shape.

It certainly seemed convenient that given all that he was too ill to deal with anything rather than the alternative; namely he's a bit of a dick and went on a hefty booze and coke binge post Wlad.

X2

I'm inclined to believe him based on the fact I suspected me might suffer from mental illness of sorts long before he told us he did. The guy displays symptoms and I can even remember posters on here mention they though he displayed bipolar like personality.

The timing however? Convenient? Possibly.
He may very well be telling the truth about suffering these problems but chose a suitable time for these issues to become too much to deal with. We can all speculate but I still maintain, unless we can say with absolute certainty he has no issues, making assumptions about someone suffering mental illness is somewhat crass.

I understand what you're saying, but my lack of belief relating to the mental illness angle is entirely from what Fury and his team have come out with. Mental illness can happen to anyone, at any time; notions of 'well, you're rich, you've got a nice family, what's wrong with you?' should be, and are, discarded.

But the description from team Fury seems to have been around the idea that Tyson became ill as a result of a lack of respect and praise for his win against Klitschko. That's not really how it works. He gets grief because he says demonstrably offensive things about gay people and women, his fights aren't really the sort which gets the wider public interested, the Wlad fight in particularly was poor, and he's from a community which, if we're being honest, are widely disliked.

dirk2686 wrote:

davie wrote:

PredatorHayds wrote: X2

I'm inclined to believe him based on the fact I suspected me might suffer from mental illness of sorts long before he told us he did. The guy displays symptoms and I can even remember posters on here mention they though he displayed bipolar like personality.

The timing however? Convenient? Possibly.
He may very well be telling the truth about suffering these problems but chose a suitable time for these issues to become too much to deal with. We can all speculate but I still maintain, unless we can say with absolute certainty he has no issues, making assumptions about someone suffering mental illness is somewhat crass.

I understand what you're saying, but my lack of belief relating to the mental illness angle is entirely from what Fury and his team have come out with. Mental illness can happen to anyone, at any time; notions of 'well, you're rich, you've got a nice family, what's wrong with you?' should be, and are, discarded.

But the description from team Fury seems to have been around the idea that Tyson became ill as a result of a lack of respect and praise for his win against Klitschko. That's not really how it works. He gets grief because he says demonstrably offensive things about gay people and women, his fights aren't really the sort which gets the wider public interested, the Wlad fight in particularly was poor, and he's from a community which, if we're being honest, are widely disliked.

I can't agree with you more there. The excuses pedalled out by his uncle and the tendency to lay the blame elsewhere has been as callous and crass as anything i've seen elsewhere.

You don't need to point the finger when it comes to mental illness. If he came out and told the world he was struggling i'm sure most would understand

dirk2686 wrote:

davie wrote:

PredatorHayds wrote: X2

I'm inclined to believe him based on the fact I suspected me might suffer from mental illness of sorts long before he told us he did. The guy displays symptoms and I can even remember posters on here mention they though he displayed bipolar like personality.

The timing however? Convenient? Possibly.
He may very well be telling the truth about suffering these problems but chose a suitable time for these issues to become too much to deal with. We can all speculate but I still maintain, unless we can say with absolute certainty he has no issues, making assumptions about someone suffering mental illness is somewhat crass.

I understand what you're saying, but my lack of belief relating to the mental illness angle is entirely from what Fury and his team have come out with. Mental illness can happen to anyone, at any time; notions of 'well, you're rich, you've got a nice family, what's wrong with you?' should be, and are, discarded.

But the description from team Fury seems to have been around the idea that Tyson became ill as a result of a lack of respect and praise for his win against Klitschko. That's not really how it works. He gets grief because he says demonstrably offensive things about gay people and women, his fights aren't really the sort which gets the wider public interested, the Wlad fight in particularly was poor, and he's from a community which, if we're being honest, are widely disliked.

I think you've pretty much hit the nail on the head there.

let the debating re-commence.

My rankings as of tonight -

#1 Fury
#2 Joshua
#3 Wlad
#4 Povetkin
#5 Ortiz
#6 Wilder
#7 Parker
#8 Pulev

Fury is number 1

Only active fighters can be #1 and Fury hasn't thought in 18 months

AJ

Fury has been inactive since 2015 and it's not clear that he'll return soon. The win over Wlad only gets him the top spot for so long...

danconnollyeire wrote:Only active fighters can be #1 and Fury hasn't thought in 18 months

You're right there

rossij8 wrote:

danconnollyeire wrote:Only active fighters can be #1 and Fury hasn't thought in 18 months

You're right there

Lol

Joshua is number 1 it's his time.

Wlad was legit last night. The win is significantly better than anything Wilder or Parker have achieved and questions have been answered. None of the active heavyweights beat him.

You can't consider fury as he has not fought for 18 months has no license and pending PED allegations which will bring some sort of ban. Plus the Fury of November 28th 2015 will never come back.

Last night makes it more sad regarding Fury but people need to accept it

It's Joshua.

Of all the fights out there I'd bizarrely like to see Parker next. Fury needs time if he's not getting banned to get in shape. Joshua calling him out now is slightly crafty; Fury stepping straight back in with him would be very risky.

It's currently Joshua, 100%

Fury could reclaim the number 1 slot but he's at least six months off of fighting Joshua, and that's if he doesn't get banned etc
He's not in the equation right now

It's Joshua.

We quickly annointed Fury, and this win for AJ was just as impressive, in their respective Klitschko bouts.

With Fury arsing about, Joshua asends for now.

I think both beat Parker and Wilder though.

wesshaw1985 wrote:let the debating re-commence.

My rankings as of tonight -

#1 Fury
#2 Joshua
#3 Wlad
#4 Povetkin
#5 Ortiz
#6 Wilder
#7 Parker
#8 Pulev

What is your justification for making Fury #1? Joshua knocked a better Wlad out than Fury, which is worth more points than a UD anyway.

Fury is unlicensed and inactive. Until that changes he's not in the game.

Rob3_142 wrote:

wesshaw1985 wrote:let the debating re-commence.

My rankings as of tonight -

#1 Fury
#2 Joshua
#3 Wlad
#4 Povetkin
#5 Ortiz
#6 Wilder
#7 Parker
#8 Pulev

What is your justification for making Fury #1? Joshua knocked a better Wlad out than Fury, which is worth more points than a UD anyway.

Fury outboxed an active 39 year old, Joshua went life and death with an inactive 41 year old.
Fury beat the man, he is number 1. AJ beat the number 2 in the division, thus making him number 2.
To be the man AJ has to beat Fury...

Fury isn't active, has no fight planned, and doesn't even have a licence to box. Until that happens he can't be ranked.

wesshaw1985 wrote:

Rob3_142 wrote:

wesshaw1985 wrote:let the debating re-commence.

My rankings as of tonight -

#1 Fury
#2 Joshua
#3 Wlad
#4 Povetkin
#5 Ortiz
#6 Wilder
#7 Parker
#8 Pulev

What is your justification for making Fury #1? Joshua knocked a better Wlad out than Fury, which is worth more points than a UD anyway.

Fury outboxed an active 39 year old, Joshua went life and death with an inactive 41 year old.
Fury beat the man, he is number 1. AJ beat the number 2 in the division, thus making him number 2.
To be the man AJ has to beat Fury...

So for arguments sake, if Joshua beats every fighter in the top 10, but does not fight Fury because he is inaccessible, he will still remain #2?

Rob3_142 wrote:

wesshaw1985 wrote:

Rob3_142 wrote:
What is your justification for making Fury #1? Joshua knocked a better Wlad out than Fury, which is worth more points than a UD anyway.

Fury outboxed an active 39 year old, Joshua went life and death with an inactive 41 year old.
Fury beat the man, he is number 1. AJ beat the number 2 in the division, thus making him number 2.
To be the man AJ has to beat Fury...

So for arguments sake, if Joshua beats every fighter in the top 10, but does not fight Fury because he is inaccessible, he will still remain #2?

You are hypothesising.
Rankings are based on results not guesses.
Today Fury is the number 1 heavyweight in the world...

wesshaw1985 wrote:

Rob3_142 wrote:

wesshaw1985 wrote: Fury outboxed an active 39 year old, Joshua went life and death with an inactive 41 year old.
Fury beat the man, he is number 1. AJ beat the number 2 in the division, thus making him number 2.
To be the man AJ has to beat Fury...

So for arguments sake, if Joshua beats every fighter in the top 10, but does not fight Fury because he is inaccessible, he will still remain #2?

You are hypothesising.
Rankings are based on results not guesses.
Today Fury is the number 1 heavyweight in the world...

Not really. There still has to be some element of guesswork when it comes to rankings as everyone can't fight everyone else, and the notion of A beating B and B beating C therefore C always losing to A just doesn't work out. See Taylor - Hopkins - Pavlik for example.

wesshaw1985 wrote:

Rob3_142 wrote:

wesshaw1985 wrote: Fury outboxed an active 39 year old, Joshua went life and death with an inactive 41 year old.
Fury beat the man, he is number 1. AJ beat the number 2 in the division, thus making him number 2.
To be the man AJ has to beat Fury...

So for arguments sake, if Joshua beats every fighter in the top 10, but does not fight Fury because he is inaccessible, he will still remain #2?

You are hypothesising.
Rankings are based on results not guesses.
Today Fury is the number 1 heavyweight in the world...

It's very much a hypothetical question, don't get me wrong. But the question does remain. You can't tell Joshua there is no physical way to reach #1. It's just counter-productive to the sport, and unfair to all active fighters trying to reach that goal. I don't believe that a ranking position should be like a baton, and you can only get it by beating the man with the baton.

Rob3_142 wrote:

wesshaw1985 wrote:

Rob3_142 wrote:
So for arguments sake, if Joshua beats every fighter in the top 10, but does not fight Fury because he is inaccessible, he will still remain #2?

You are hypothesising.
Rankings are based on results not guesses.
Today Fury is the number 1 heavyweight in the world...

It's very much a hypothetical question, don't get me wrong. But the question does remain. You can't tell Joshua there is no physical way to reach #1. It's just counter-productive to the sport, and unfair to all active fighters trying to reach that goal. I don't believe that a ranking position should be like a baton, and you can only get it by beating the man with the baton.

Wlad went to Russia and beat Povetkin. Fury and Joshua are the only men worthy of being above Wlad in the rankings.
Wilder, Parker, Ortiz and Pulev are leagues below. Wins over this lot doesn't add anything to the top guys resumes IMO...

wesshaw1985 wrote:

Rob3_142 wrote:

wesshaw1985 wrote: Fury outboxed an active 39 year old, Joshua went life and death with an inactive 41 year old.
Fury beat the man, he is number 1. AJ beat the number 2 in the division, thus making him number 2.
To be the man AJ has to beat Fury...

So for arguments sake, if Joshua beats every fighter in the top 10, but does not fight Fury because he is inaccessible, he will still remain #2?

You are hypothesising.
Rankings are based on results not guesses.
Today Fury is the number 1 heavyweight in the world...

I think you'll find he's behind Ali and Joe Louis

Unless you account for the fact that rankings also take activity into account

davie wrote:

wesshaw1985 wrote:

Rob3_142 wrote:
So for arguments sake, if Joshua beats every fighter in the top 10, but does not fight Fury because he is inaccessible, he will still remain #2?

You are hypothesising.
Rankings are based on results not guesses.
Today Fury is the number 1 heavyweight in the world...

I think you'll find he's behind Ali and Joe Louis

Unless you account for the fact that rankings also take activity into account

don't be moronic.
Fury has been out of the ring 18 months and is currently back in training.
Stop being so quick to write Fury off just so you can insert AJ as the King of boxing. He has to earn that title...

AJ has to be no1 just now.