BoxRec

Supremo wrote:Fighting with an Achilles injury like David haye is sore- but how bad is it going to get? You're not going to think you'll never walk again because you've a sore leg- you're also not going to get a man punching it to make it worse.

Fighting with a broken eye socket would make anyone think that they may not only be risking their eye sight but their life.

I broke my nose in a fight and when I sat in the corner I tried to blow blood out my nose and a big bubble of blood came out my eye. The change in pressure in my eye was horrendous and made me think something was seriously wrong. It was genuinely frightening.

I was going to go back out and fight but the ref waved it off. I don't know how long I'd have lasted if I'd got hit on it again. When you start worrying about your eye sight- quite legitimately then your health and survival becomes priority not winning the fight.

Kell brook wouldn't just have had a sore eye and didn't fancy being hit again like a child wanting to avoid being smacked. He would have been experiencing a unique sensation that few folk ever experience that something is drastically wrong and his life could be in danger.

I've no time for quitters like Spike O'Sullivan or Dirrell but Brook was totally justified.

TheDarkDestroyer wrote:I won't criticise Brook for stopping, but how didn't he have the fight beat out of him?

He was beaten to the point where he wanted to stop. That to me is the definition of having the fight beat out of you.

Muttley wrote:

TheDarkDestroyer wrote:I won't criticise Brook for stopping, but how didn't he have the fight beat out of him?

He was beaten to the point where he wanted to stop. That to me is the definition of having the fight beat out of you.

The fact is Kell had a serious eye injury and he was absolutely right to take a knee. there was a very serious chance of permanent damage to his sight. His corner should have pulled him out earlier. Also, Kell fought on for 4 rounds with a serious injury, he's as brave as they come and still wants to fight again even after two career threatening eye injuries. He should be advised to retire, enjoy his money and have a healthy life, he's earned it.

Jackson328 wrote:

liamlion wrote:

dirk2686 wrote:I genuinely think the worst thing in boxing is this farcical attitude some have towards fighters who decide enough is enough and stop the fight themselves. None of us know the level of pain Brook may have been experiencing. None of us know what state his mind is in knowing that a similar sort of injury he has suffered previously appears to have resurfaced, and that injury could have cost him his sight. I don't care how much people prattle on about the title they hold meaning everything to them; nobody would be prepared to go blind for it.

This narrative that he chose to stop otherwise he was risking going blind doesnt really make sense tho. Team Brook say the injury was caused in the 7th round... But yet Brook fought on. The risk of blindness was as great in round 7 as it was in round 11. The reason Brook stopped when he did was because he had had the fight punched out of him. Spence's body punching took it out of a tired and weary Brook. Brook simply didnt have the stomach to continue fighting on.

You can't possibly know that. The risk was surely getting higher the longer he continued getting punched in the face! Factor in the stress he was under and fatigue after a long hard fight entered the latter stages and the increase in the chances of making a mistake because Spence could smell blood and was moving in for the finish. I find it incredible that anyone can think a boxer should fight on with a fractured eye socket, I really do. Brook had suffered the very same injury to his other eye 6 months ago in his last fight so he may have had a good idea what the injury was this time, things like that can play on your mind when you've had surgery.

Surely if he'd had enough and was looking to quit he would have done it after the knockdown in round 10, we've seen plenty of people 'fail to beat the count'. I would hate young boxers reading this board to think that they should feel obliged to keep fighting with a serious injury and risk being blinded or worse just to satisfy the blood lust of some fans. If its acceptable for an MMA fighter to tap out then why can't a boxer take a knee and say no more? Joe Frazier quit on his stool in the 3rd fight with Ali but I don't recall too much criticism, he was totally exhausted. Ok maybe it was Futch who called it but Joe wasn't complaining, he couldn't move! Some accused Joshua of taking himself to the canvas against Wlad rather than take more shots. Self preservation has many forms.

liamlion wrote:

Jackson328 wrote:

liamlion wrote:
This narrative that he chose to stop otherwise he was risking going blind doesnt really make sense tho. Team Brook say the injury was caused in the 7th round... But yet Brook fought on. The risk of blindness was as great in round 7 as it was in round 11. The reason Brook stopped when he did was because he had had the fight punched out of him. Spence's body punching took it out of a tired and weary Brook. Brook simply didnt have the stomach to continue fighting on.

You can't possibly know that. The risk was surely getting higher the longer he continued getting punched in the face! Factor in the stress he was under and fatigue after a long hard fight entered the latter stages and the increase in the chances of making a mistake because Spence could smell blood and was moving in for the finish. I find it incredible that anyone can think a boxer should fight on with a fractured eye socket, I really do. Brook had suffered the very same injury to his other eye 6 months ago in his last fight so he may have had a good idea what the injury was this time, things like that can play on your mind when you've had surgery.

Surely if he'd had enough and was looking to quit he would have done it after the knockdown in round 10, we've seen plenty of people 'fail to beat the count'. I would hate young boxers reading this board to think that they should feel obliged to keep fighting with a serious injury and risk being blinded or worse just to satisfy the blood lust of some fans. If its acceptable for an MMA fighter to tap out then why can't a boxer take a knee and say no more? Joe Frazier quit on his stool in the 3rd fight with Ali but I don't recall too much criticism, he was totally exhausted. Ok maybe it was Futch who called it but Joe wasn't complaining, he couldn't move! Some accused Joshua of taking himself to the canvas against Wlad rather than take more shots. Self preservation has many forms.

The difference being Frazier fought his complete and utter all until he had nothing left, as had Ali. I really dont think Brook had fought life and death with Spence and was anywhere near physically the place that Frazier was at the end of their respective fights. The comparison doesnt work for me.

In respect of Joshua, im not sure anyone has suggested that he voluntarily went to the canvas. He was pole-axed by a huge right hand and then largely took a battering on his feet for the remainder of the round. Again, im not sure your example or comparison is accurate or fitting of what youre trying to illustrate.

CaptainSpacerod wrote:Saw an interview with Kell last week in which he said that the consultant who treated him after the GGG fight had told him that had GGG landed one more sufficiently powerful punch in the right place the eye could've literally fallen out of the socket.

Boxers often display bravery beyond the call of duty and that's exactly what Kell showed on Saturday. Bravely and maybe foolishly he carried on fighting for 10 minutes after he felt the eye socket go, knowing that at any moment his eye could've been punched into his head. That's courage.

I could be wrong but I don't know of any boxers walking round with one eye missing thankfully and you can bet your bottom dollar that all the heroic keyboard world champions on here slating Kell are walking round with two eyes.

Ossyrules wrote:Golovkin fight - fractured eye socket and told that he was a good accurate punch away from having his eye ball fall into his skull

Spence fight - round 7 fractured eye socket. Not as bad as the golovkin fight. Fights on for 4 more rounds but his level is deteriorating. Any punches on that eye must be causing him big bother in terms of pain and vision. Gets pinged in the 11th causing double vision to set in and stay there. pawimg badly at his eye but takes a knee when spence comes forward. Gets up on 9 but doesn't appear to know which referee to walk towards, the real or the double vision. He's done

I don't know what brook said to the ref at this point but obviously it was a good stoppage from the ref. For some people to come on here and label him a quitter, no heart for the fight etc, it's so poor judgement, they're way off. The guy is digging way deep whilst trying to protect a career level injury and also one that could badly badly effect his life outside the ring. Get a grip guys. This isn't a no mas situation I've had enough

Can people just not credit spence on a great achievement and to brook for his part in a great fight and just hope the injury isn't bad?

Tomasino wrote:

liamlion wrote:

Jackson328 wrote:
You can't possibly know that. The risk was surely getting higher the longer he continued getting punched in the face! Factor in the stress he was under and fatigue after a long hard fight entered the latter stages and the increase in the chances of making a mistake because Spence could smell blood and was moving in for the finish. I find it incredible that anyone can think a boxer should fight on with a fractured eye socket, I really do. Brook had suffered the very same injury to his other eye 6 months ago in his last fight so he may have had a good idea what the injury was this time, things like that can play on your mind when you've had surgery.

Surely if he'd had enough and was looking to quit he would have done it after the knockdown in round 10, we've seen plenty of people 'fail to beat the count'. I would hate young boxers reading this board to think that they should feel obliged to keep fighting with a serious injury and risk being blinded or worse just to satisfy the blood lust of some fans. If its acceptable for an MMA fighter to tap out then why can't a boxer take a knee and say no more? Joe Frazier quit on his stool in the 3rd fight with Ali but I don't recall too much criticism, he was totally exhausted. Ok maybe it was Futch who called it but Joe wasn't complaining, he couldn't move! Some accused Joshua of taking himself to the canvas against Wlad rather than take more shots. Self preservation has many forms.

The difference being Frazier fought his complete and utter all until he had nothing left, as had Ali. I really dont think Brook had fought life and death with Spence and was anywhere near physically the place that Frazier was at the end of their respective fights. The comparison doesnt work for me.

In respect of Joshua, im not sure anyone has suggested that he voluntarily went to the canvas. He was pole-axed by a huge right hand and then largely took a battering on his feet for the remainder of the round. Again, im not sure your example or comparison is accurate or fitting of what youre trying to illustrate.

Joe was pulled out by Futch. It was Ali who was wanting to quit. It's a very poor comparison to Brook v Spence.

From a quick google..

Seeing the results of round 14, Eddie Futch decided to stop the fight between rounds rather than risk a similar or worse fate for Frazier in the 15th. Frazier protested stopping the fight, shouting "I want him, boss," and trying to get Futch to change his mind. Futch replied, "It's all over. No one will forget what you did here today", and signaled to referee Carlos Padilla, Jr. to end the bout. Ali would later claim that this was the closest to dying he had ever been.[20][21] Unbeknownst to Frazier's corner, at the end of the 14th round Ali instructed his cornermen to cut his gloves off, but Dundee ignored him. Ali later told his biographer Thomas Hauser, "Frazier quit just before I did. I didn't think I could fight any more.

liamlion wrote:

Tomasino wrote:

liamlion wrote:
The difference being Frazier fought his complete and utter all until he had nothing left, as had Ali. I really dont think Brook had fought life and death with Spence and was anywhere near physically the place that Frazier was at the end of their respective fights. The comparison doesnt work for me.

In respect of Joshua, im not sure anyone has suggested that he voluntarily went to the canvas. He was pole-axed by a huge right hand and then largely took a battering on his feet for the remainder of the round. Again, im not sure your example or comparison is accurate or fitting of what youre trying to illustrate.

Joe was pulled out by Futch. It was Ali who was wanting to quit. It's a very poor comparison to Brook v Spence.

From a quick google..

Seeing the results of round 14, Eddie Futch decided to stop the fight between rounds rather than risk a similar or worse fate for Frazier in the 15th. Frazier protested stopping the fight, shouting "I want him, boss," and trying to get Futch to change his mind. Futch replied, "It's all over. No one will forget what you did here today", and signaled to referee Carlos Padilla, Jr. to end the bout. Ali would later claim that this was the closest to dying he had ever been.[20][21] Unbeknownst to Frazier's corner, at the end of the 14th round Ali instructed his cornermen to cut his gloves off, but Dundee ignored him. Ali later told his biographer Thomas Hauser, "Frazier quit just before I did. I didn't think I could fight any more.

I agree. Frazier - Ali is a poor comparison and i said as much in my post. However, it was your comparison, not mine.

Tuan_Jim wrote:Did someone really compare Joe Frazier, retired against his will, after the hellfire of Manila, to Kell Brook voluntarily quitting? I would think it impossible for a boxing fan to be that ignorant to such a famous fight?