BoxRec

TheLeprechaun wrote: ↑03 May 2018, 11:51

oogiebe wrote: ↑03 May 2018, 11:02
You know, I am a fan of Wilder (full disclosure). He reminds me of a big Hearns without Hearns' boxing skills and a better jaw. I believe he's underrated. Why? Because his offset to a lack of "pure boxing skills" is his athleticism and awkwardness. Folks look at the pure boxing skill set and think he's a one trick pony, but he's more than that. He showed a lot in his fight with Ortiz, despite the shellacking Wilder took from these forums. I'm a fan, but that doesn't mean I'm biased. AJ is a better technician, but Wilder ALWAYS has the punchers chance whereby he can turn around a fight with one punch. Regarding his ability to make money, it has nothing to do with his effectiveness, more because of poor promoting and management. Sorry for the long post (Long for me). The beauty of AJ; Pedvetkin; and Wilder is they are all vulnerable, which makes for exciting fights. PS: This is also why I don't look at today's HW's as being better than any era as of yet. Time will tell.

I am not really a fan of Wilder or Joshua, I think they are both flawed. I think Joshua is very robotic and has looked pretty poor in recent fights. Nowhere near the explosive dangeous puncher he's touted. His last three fights have been pretty boring. His robotic style is tough to watch. Wilder is flawed but with his power combined with Joshua's roboticness, I think Wilder starches him. I can see Joshua winning but I most of all really see him being put on queer street by a right hand and finished. I don't even know if AJ is a better technician than Wilder. He's just been plodding in recent fights throwing one punch at a time. He definitely seems gunshy after the Wlad fight. In the UK people think he is the second coming.

I think Lennox Lewis would do both of them on the same night.

marvelous marv wrote: ↑03 May 2018, 10:17 I don't work in the boxing industry. I am just reiterating what Eddie has said in interviews lately.

TheLeprechaun wrote: ↑03 May 2018, 11:51

oogiebe wrote: ↑03 May 2018, 11:02

dirk2686 wrote: ↑02 May 2018, 22:26

But correct. We all know Wilder doesn't sell. He doesn't make much money. He can't really hold Joshua to ransom because Joshua can go off and make 20m fighting David Haye or probably make 30m fighting Tyson Fury.

Wilder can play ball and take what he's given, or he can go back to fighting people like Molina for a handful of change.

You know, I am a fan of Wilder (full disclosure). He reminds me of a big Hearns without Hearns' boxing skills and a better jaw. I believe he's underrated. Why? Because his offset to a lack of "pure boxing skills" is his athleticism and awkwardness. Folks look at the pure boxing skill set and think he's a one trick pony, but he's more than that. He showed a lot in his fight with Ortiz, despite the shellacking Wilder took from these forums. I'm a fan, but that doesn't mean I'm biased. AJ is a better technician, but Wilder ALWAYS has the punchers chance whereby he can turn around a fight with one punch. Regarding his ability to make money, it has nothing to do with his effectiveness, more because of poor promoting and management. Sorry for the long post (Long for me). The beauty of AJ; Pedvetkin; and Wilder is they are all vulnerable, which makes for exciting fights. PS: This is also why I don't look at today's HW's as being better than any era as of yet. Time will tell.

I am not really a fan of Wilder or Joshua, I think they are both flawed. I think Joshua is very robotic and has looked pretty poor in recent fights. Nowhere near the explosive dangeous puncher he's touted. His last three fights have been pretty boring. His robotic style is tough to watch. Wilder is flawed but with his power combined with Joshua's roboticness, I think Wilder starches him. I can see Joshua winning but I most of all really see him being put on queer street by a right hand and finished. I don't even know if AJ is a better technician than Wilder. He's just been plodding in recent fights throwing one punch at a time. He definitely seems gunshy after the Wlad fight. In the UK people think he is the second coming.

I think Lennox Lewis would do both of them on the same night.

dirk2686 wrote: ↑03 May 2018, 16:27

dirk2686 wrote: ↑03 May 2018, 17:10 As for his two fights afterwards, he beat Takam without barely losing a round and comfortably beat an unbeaten Parker.

It's testimony to the level Joshua has got to that when he loses around five rounds max across nearly two full fights that it's seen as a weakness. He never looked remotely close to losing either.

oogiebe wrote: ↑03 May 2018, 17:48

dirk2686 wrote: ↑03 May 2018, 17:10 As for his two fights afterwards, he beat Takam without barely losing a round and comfortably beat an unbeaten Parker.

It's testimony to the level Joshua has got to that when he loses around five rounds max across nearly two full fights that it's seen as a weakness. He never looked remotely close to losing either.

Good points. I remember the doomsday sayers when Mike Tyson went to a decision the first time. Uh Oh...a kink in his armour!!! He can't handle big men...etc. It was true only to the point that big guys gave him trouble but not danger, until after he went to prison. Even the Douglas fight. He had a condom in his corner to say the least of the help he got for that fight.

dirk2686 wrote: ↑03 May 2018, 17:52

oogiebe wrote: ↑03 May 2018, 17:48

dirk2686 wrote: ↑03 May 2018, 17:10 As for his two fights afterwards, he beat Takam without barely losing a round and comfortably beat an unbeaten Parker.

It's testimony to the level Joshua has got to that when he loses around five rounds max across nearly two full fights that it's seen as a weakness. He never looked remotely close to losing either.

Good points. I remember the doomsday sayers when Mike Tyson went to a decision the first time. Uh Oh...a kink in his armour!!! He can't handle big men...etc. It was true only to the point that big guys gave him trouble but not danger, until after he went to prison. Even the Douglas fight. He had a condom in his corner to say the least of the help he got for that fight.

Indeed. It's a point which essentially proves itself either way. 'All he does is smash people up in a few rounds. Let's see if he can do twelve.' (Does 12, wins easy). 'See - not that powerful. Should have smashed him up early.'

I get that the Takam and Parker fights weren't great to watch, but they were being held up against the Wlad fight which was a thriller. And I still think the Parker fight was damaged as a spectacle by a shoddy referee.

jamamb wrote: ↑03 May 2018, 17:59 what i dont get is people acting like aj going the distance or losing some rounds or going later into fights is a big deal with respect to the wilder fight. ive seen a lot of ppl since parker or even takam say those fights show that wilder has the edge.

but being fair and looking at both sides, wilder has been the distance in as many fights as aj and lost as many rounds to szpilka as aj lost combined to takam and parker, and needed 10 to stop molina (done in 3 by aj) and 11 to stop duhaupas standing without dropping him

Wales wrote: ↑03 May 2018, 20:03 AJ is 5th fastest HW in history to win a world title . IBF title just 2 and half years and 16 fights after turning pro. It took Wilder 3 times longer and twice as many pro fights to win one. You could argue AJ is still in the infancy of his pro career and on a huge learning curve, but unlike many HWs who at this stage are learning and gaining experience by fighting Guys who are roadsweepers by day, boxers by night , he is learning by facing world level guys.

AJ fight 16 - world title fight
Wilder fight 16 - against a guy 6-6

Aj fight 19 - Klitschko
Wilder fight 19 - knocking over an unknown and undurable cruiserweight

AJ is undoubtedly still on a learning curve in the pro game .

All that to one side , there is currently only one HW fight out there that holds huge universal appeal. A fight apiece before facing each other is acceptable, but not fighting each other after that is blatantly flaunting everything that’s wrong with boxing .

oogiebe wrote: ↑03 May 2018, 20:08

Wales wrote: ↑03 May 2018, 20:03 AJ is 5th fastest HW in history to win a world title . IBF title just 2 and half years and 16 fights after turning pro. It took Wilder 3 times longer and twice as many pro fights to win one. You could argue AJ is still in the infancy of his pro career and on a huge learning curve, but unlike many HWs who at this stage are learning and gaining experience by fighting Guys who are roadsweepers by day, boxers by night , he is learning by facing world level guys.

AJ fight 16 - world title fight
Wilder fight 16 - against a guy 6-6

Aj fight 19 - Klitschko
Wilder fight 19 - knocking over an unknown and undurable cruiserweight

AJ is undoubtedly still on a learning curve in the pro game .

All that to one side , there is currently only one HW fight out there that holds huge universal appeal. A fight apiece before facing each other is acceptable, but not fighting each other after that is blatantly flaunting everything that’s wrong with boxing .

No doubt you are an AJ fan. everything you post is neither inaccurate nor new. Last point is 100% true and I'm a card carrying member of that fight needing to happen this year. Interesting to note who the 4 others were. Tyson; Patterson; Ali; I'm guessing were three of them. If I am correct, who the heck was the fourth?

punchoutsb wrote: ↑03 May 2018, 21:53

oogiebe wrote: ↑03 May 2018, 20:08

Wales wrote: ↑03 May 2018, 20:03 AJ is 5th fastest HW in history to win a world title . IBF title just 2 and half years and 16 fights after turning pro. It took Wilder 3 times longer and twice as many pro fights to win one. You could argue AJ is still in the infancy of his pro career and on a huge learning curve, but unlike many HWs who at this stage are learning and gaining experience by fighting Guys who are roadsweepers by day, boxers by night , he is learning by facing world level guys.

AJ fight 16 - world title fight
Wilder fight 16 - against a guy 6-6

Aj fight 19 - Klitschko
Wilder fight 19 - knocking over an unknown and undurable cruiserweight

AJ is undoubtedly still on a learning curve in the pro game .

All that to one side , there is currently only one HW fight out there that holds huge universal appeal. A fight apiece before facing each other is acceptable, but not fighting each other after that is blatantly flaunting everything that’s wrong with boxing .

No doubt you are an AJ fan. everything you post is neither inaccurate nor new. Last point is 100% true and I'm a card carrying member of that fight needing to happen this year. Interesting to note who the 4 others were. Tyson; Patterson; Ali; I'm guessing were three of them. If I am correct, who the heck was the fourth?

Spinks
Tyson
Mercer
Tate
AJ

It's in terms of time pro, not age.

punchoutsb wrote: ↑03 May 2018, 21:53 Spinks
Tyson
Mercer
Tate
AJ

It's in terms of time pro, not age.

oogiebe wrote: ↑03 May 2018, 22:00

punchoutsb wrote: ↑03 May 2018, 21:53 Spinks
Tyson
Mercer
Tate
AJ

It's in terms of time pro, not age.

Not a glorious list.

Wales wrote: ↑03 May 2018, 22:07 Not a big AJ fan at all mate. Don’t dislike the guy either, he’s great for british boxing. I’m really on the fence with him. I’d rather him win than lose against guys out there, bar Fury, I’d pretty much be “let the best man win” if Fury regains the fire and they fight .

For me AJ has an upside and a downside

Upsides
The speed of his progression. So many fighters amass lengthy undefeated records before stepping up.
Big nights for british boxing . His stadium fights have been shown U.K. prime time and Klitschko and Parker were both big name credible opponents
His dedication. Refreshing to see a HW dedicated to the sport and looks in shape as appose to flabby big fellas
Excitement value - everyone loves a HW who has KO power

Downside
I don’t like the clearly manufactured for the masses false nice guy persona. Videos of him lifting a car so a kid can get his football from underneath it and tales he lives with his mam do my head in
The elephant in the room that’s ignored regarding his gold medal. He clearly lost to Savon in the olympics. As corrupt scoring as you’ll ever see
Pisses me off how good some people think he is. I’ve seen and listened to people claim he’d leather Lewis and all the 90s HWs. I don’t see it and for me that breeds resentment

boxing_rocks wrote: ↑03 May 2018, 22:36

Wales wrote: ↑03 May 2018, 22:07 Not a big AJ fan at all mate. Don’t dislike the guy either, he’s great for british boxing. I’m really on the fence with him. I’d rather him win than lose against guys out there, bar Fury, I’d pretty much be “let the best man win” if Fury regains the fire and they fight .

For me AJ has an upside and a downside

Upsides
The speed of his progression. So many fighters amass lengthy undefeated records before stepping up.
Big nights for british boxing . His stadium fights have been shown U.K. prime time and Klitschko and Parker were both big name credible opponents
His dedication. Refreshing to see a HW dedicated to the sport and looks in shape as appose to flabby big fellas
Excitement value - everyone loves a HW who has KO power

Downside
I don’t like the clearly manufactured for the masses false nice guy persona. Videos of him lifting a car so a kid can get his football from underneath it and tales he lives with his mam do my head in
The elephant in the room that’s ignored regarding his gold medal. He clearly lost to Savon in the olympics. As corrupt scoring as you’ll ever see
Pisses me off how good some people think he is. I’ve seen and listened to people claim he’d leather Lewis and all the 90s HWs. I don’t see it and for me that breeds resentment

Rob3_142 wrote: ↑04 May 2018, 08:35

Wales wrote: ↑03 May 2018, 22:07 Not a big AJ fan at all mate. Don’t dislike the guy either, he’s great for british boxing. I’m really on the fence with him. I’d rather him win than lose against guys out there, bar Fury, I’d pretty much be “let the best man win” if Fury regains the fire and they fight .

For me AJ has an upside and a downside

Upsides
The speed of his progression. So many fighters amass lengthy undefeated records before stepping up.
Big nights for british boxing . His stadium fights have been shown U.K. prime time and Klitschko and Parker were both big name credible opponents
His dedication. Refreshing to see a HW dedicated to the sport and looks in shape as appose to flabby big fellas
Excitement value - everyone loves a HW who has KO power

Downside
I don’t like the clearly manufactured for the masses false nice guy persona. Videos of him lifting a car so a kid can get his football from underneath it and tales he lives with his mam do my head in
The elephant in the room that’s ignored regarding his gold medal. He clearly lost to Savon in the olympics. As corrupt scoring as you’ll ever see
Pisses me off how good some people think he is. I’ve seen and listened to people claim he’d leather Lewis and all the 90s HWs. I don’t see it and for me that breeds resentment

I'm a fan of Joshua, but I think this is a pretty fair reflection. In Joshua's defence, he's trying to unify the whole division in less than 25 pro fights, so whatever happens you can't complain about how he goes about his business.