BoxRec

oogiebe wrote: ↑18 Dec 2018, 16:13

gilgamesh wrote: ↑18 Dec 2018, 16:11 As it stands right now I could see ranking Golovkin between maybe 13 and 20 in an All Time Middleweight list, doubt he'd rank any higher than that at the time being, and I'm a big, big fan of the guy, but the Middleweight division has a ridiculously rich history of truly great fighters.

13 - 20 is too high for me. But it's hard to compare current and former era fighters. But I do agree, perhaps the RICHEST history in boxing.

He'd definitely fall into the Top 20 somewhere. He's accomplished that much at least.

gilgamesh wrote: ↑18 Dec 2018, 16:14

oogiebe wrote: ↑18 Dec 2018, 16:13

gilgamesh wrote: ↑18 Dec 2018, 16:11 As it stands right now I could see ranking Golovkin between maybe 13 and 20 in an All Time Middleweight list, doubt he'd rank any higher than that at the time being, and I'm a big, big fan of the guy, but the Middleweight division has a ridiculously rich history of truly great fighters.

13 - 20 is too high for me. But it's hard to compare current and former era fighters. But I do agree, perhaps the RICHEST history in boxing.

He'd definitely fall into the Top 20 somewhere. He's accomplished that much at least.

I love the guy, but one can rattle off 20 MW's legends faster than any other division in boxing, IMHO

oogiebe wrote: ↑18 Dec 2018, 16:15

gilgamesh wrote: ↑18 Dec 2018, 16:14

oogiebe wrote: ↑18 Dec 2018, 16:13

13 - 20 is too high for me. But it's hard to compare current and former era fighters. But I do agree, perhaps the RICHEST history in boxing.

He'd definitely fall into the Top 20 somewhere. He's accomplished that much at least.

I love the guy, but one can rattle off 20 MW's legends faster than any other division in boxing, IMHO

Rattle off 20 that are better than GGG then.

I'll even help you with the obvious ones.

Greb
Monzon
Robinson
Hagler
Hopkins
Mickey Walker

So that's 6. Name 14 more

gilgamesh wrote: ↑18 Dec 2018, 16:17

oogiebe wrote: ↑18 Dec 2018, 16:15

gilgamesh wrote: ↑18 Dec 2018, 16:14

He'd definitely fall into the Top 20 somewhere. He's accomplished that much at least.

I love the guy, but one can rattle off 20 MW's legends faster than any other division in boxing, IMHO

Rattle off 20 that are better than GGG then.

I'll even help you with the obvious ones.

Greb
Monzon
Robinson
Hagler
Hopkins
Mickey Walker

So that's 6. Name 14 more

Better than GGG I didn't say. 20 ATG's I said.
Lamata
Griffith
Tiger
Toney
Giardello
Fullmer
Tommy Ryan (on record)
Mickey Walker
hmm...maybe I opened my chat too soon...Given time I could, but I did say RATTLE off. I hate you! lOL!

oogiebe wrote: ↑18 Dec 2018, 16:25

gilgamesh wrote: ↑18 Dec 2018, 16:17

oogiebe wrote: ↑18 Dec 2018, 16:15
I love the guy, but one can rattle off 20 MW's legends faster than any other division in boxing, IMHO

Rattle off 20 that are better than GGG then.

I'll even help you with the obvious ones.

Greb
Monzon
Robinson
Hagler
Hopkins
Mickey Walker

So that's 6. Name 14 more

Better than GGG I didn't say. 20 ATG's I said.
Lamata
Griffith
Tiger
Toney
Giardello
Fullmer
Tommy Ryan (on record)
Mickey Walker
hmm...maybe I opened my chat too soon...Given time I could, but I did say RATTLE off. I hate you! lOL!

I can go on with other names, but I don't think they are better than GGG:

Cerdan
Benvenuti
Rodrigo Valdez
Nunn
Serge Martinez
Canelo
Bobo Olson
Tony Zale (can't belive I missed that one)

Anyone that doesn't think that GGG is one of the all time greatest Middleweights in Boxing History is a moron. I'm sure the Mexican contingent who hate GGG because he beat Canelo both times he fought him will chime in with some garbage. GGG is an undefeated fighter and has never been beaten. NEVER. He may fight again and lose now because the judges screwed him out of a legacy that he deserved and in turn will ruin what should have been a flawless record and an incredible career. So I guess we will need to review again when retirement is announced.

Also, I believe that when determining a boxer's greatness, these fights at the end of a career and past prime fights still need to count when considering greatness. They shouldn't just be eliminated because they are considered old. Boxers can do damage to their historical placement by sticking around too long. You can't unsee some things. Some luckily have years and years of epic fights that minimize the ugly losses at the end like Sugar Ray and Iron Mike but other boxers that didn't have those big FOY type fights have less of a safety net to work with IMO.

caldo2025 wrote: ↑18 Dec 2018, 16:45 Anyone that doesn't think that GGG is one of the all time greatest Middleweights in Boxing History is a moron. I'm sure the Mexican contingent who hate GGG because he beat Canelo both times he fought him will chime in with some garbage. GGG is an undefeated fighter and has never been beaten. NEVER. He may fight again and lose now because the judges screwed him out of a legacy that he deserved and in turn will ruin what should have been a flawless record and an incredible career. So I guess we will need to review again when retirement is announced.

Also, I believe that when determining a boxer's greatness, these fights at the end of a career and past prime fights still need to count when considering greatness. They shouldn't just be eliminated because they are considered old. Boxers can do damage to their historical placement by sticking around too long. You can't unsee some things. Some luckily have years and years of epic fights that minimize the ugly losses at the end like Sugar Ray and Iron Mike but other boxers that didn't have those big FOY type fights have less of a safety net to work with IMO.

As soon as you said "...is a moron" I stopped reading your post.

caldo2025 wrote: ↑18 Dec 2018, 16:45 Anyone that doesn't think that GGG is one of the all time greatest Middleweights in Boxing History is a moron. I'm sure the Mexican contingent who hate GGG because he beat Canelo both times he fought him will chime in with some garbage. GGG is an undefeated fighter and has never been beaten. NEVER. He may fight again and lose now because the judges screwed him out of a legacy that he deserved and in turn will ruin what should have been a flawless record and an incredible career. So I guess we will need to review again when retirement is announced.

Also, I believe that when determining a boxer's greatness, these fights at the end of a career and past prime fights still need to count when considering greatness. They shouldn't just be eliminated because they are considered old. Boxers can do damage to their historical placement by sticking around too long. You can't unsee some things. Some luckily have years and years of epic fights that minimize the ugly losses at the end like Sugar Ray and Iron Mike but other boxers that didn't have those big FOY type fights have less of a safety net to work with IMO.

Where do you rate GGG in an all time middleweight rating?

LOL at most of those names who are "better" than GGG. Somebody even included Sergio Martinez

boxing_rocks wrote: ↑18 Dec 2018, 17:29 LOL at most of those names who are "better" than GGG. Somebody even included Sergio Martinez

Read the post closer. I didn't rate Martinez better. I was showing that it was more difficult than I first stated to come up with 20 ATG Middleweights, regardless if they are better than GGG. Geez I wish people would read more carefully before commenting.

boxing_rocks wrote: ↑18 Dec 2018, 17:29 LOL at most of those names who are "better" than GGG. Somebody even included Sergio Martinez

In fairness the guy that mentioned Sergio Martinez didn't necessarily say that he was better than Golovkin, and I wouldn't think he'd be of the opinion that he is.

gilgamesh wrote: ↑18 Dec 2018, 17:32

boxing_rocks wrote: ↑18 Dec 2018, 17:29 LOL at most of those names who are "better" than GGG. Somebody even included Sergio Martinez

In fairness the guy that mentioned Sergio Martinez didn't necessarily say that he was better than Golovkin, and I wouldn't think he'd be of the opinion that he is.

I sure would of liked to see Martinez vs GGG. The fight should of happened. Another disappointment in the sport

tiny_acres wrote: ↑18 Dec 2018, 17:36

gilgamesh wrote: ↑18 Dec 2018, 17:32

boxing_rocks wrote: ↑18 Dec 2018, 17:29 LOL at most of those names who are "better" than GGG. Somebody even included Sergio Martinez

In fairness the guy that mentioned Sergio Martinez didn't necessarily say that he was better than Golovkin, and I wouldn't think he'd be of the opinion that he is.

I sure would of liked to see Martinez vs GGG. The fight should of happened. Another disappointment in the sport

Martinez was never quite the same after the knee injury suffered in the Chavez Jr. fight, and GGG hadn't really rose to prominence until then. I think Golovkin would've beaten him pretty handily. I guess we'll never know for sure, but I'm quite confident in how it would've went down.

Thomastearns wrote: ↑18 Dec 2018, 16:00 It'd be interesting to see GGG with a new trainer, just to see what's left and who still wants to face him.

Perhaps once he's retired he might get the same acclaim Hagler does now. I doubt whether most fans realise just how much Marvin was underappreciated in his own time. The now considered legend was rarely, if ever, the 'A' side during his career. Along with his trainers Pat and Goody Petronelli, they were the habitual outsiders. That's the way it worked then and that's the way it works now.

And then came Las Vegas, NSAC and the Leonard fight.

Talking of Leonard, if Ray had foregone the Norris and Camacho fights he'd now be seen as alongside SRR.

That’s just it mate. Most Boxers are considered legends way after they retire, or by the next generation of boxing fans.

I say the same thing about FMJ. He will be more appreciated by the next gen. of fans in the future.

gilgamesh wrote: ↑18 Dec 2018, 17:32

boxing_rocks wrote: ↑18 Dec 2018, 17:29 LOL at most of those names who are "better" than GGG. Somebody even included Sergio Martinez

In fairness the guy that mentioned Sergio Martinez didn't necessarily say that he was better than Golovkin, and I wouldn't think he'd be of the opinion that he is.

Thanks Gil. BTW...it was much harder to 'rattle off' those names. I bow to your Epicness!

gilgamesh wrote: ↑18 Dec 2018, 17:38

tiny_acres wrote: ↑18 Dec 2018, 17:36

gilgamesh wrote: ↑18 Dec 2018, 17:32

In fairness the guy that mentioned Sergio Martinez didn't necessarily say that he was better than Golovkin, and I wouldn't think he'd be of the opinion that he is.

I sure would of liked to see Martinez vs GGG. The fight should of happened. Another disappointment in the sport

Martinez was never quite the same after the knee injury suffered in the Chavez Jr. fight, and GGG hadn't really rose to prominence until then. I think Golovkin would've beaten him pretty handily. I guess we'll never know for sure, but I'm quite confident in how it would've went down.

GGG was wba regular champion since 2010. Pretty much a year after Martinez winning his wbc belt.
They had nearly 3 years to face off before the Chavez jr. fight.
Politics stopped it from happening..
Yes I agree GGG would of won. But fans were cheated out of another historical fight. GGG would of and could of won the lineal title

tiny_acres wrote: ↑18 Dec 2018, 16:55

caldo2025 wrote: ↑18 Dec 2018, 16:45 Anyone that doesn't think that GGG is one of the all time greatest Middleweights in Boxing History is a moron. I'm sure the Mexican contingent who hate GGG because he beat Canelo both times he fought him will chime in with some garbage. GGG is an undefeated fighter and has never been beaten. NEVER. He may fight again and lose now because the judges screwed him out of a legacy that he deserved and in turn will ruin what should have been a flawless record and an incredible career. So I guess we will need to review again when retirement is announced.

Also, I believe that when determining a boxer's greatness, these fights at the end of a career and past prime fights still need to count when considering greatness. They shouldn't just be eliminated because they are considered old. Boxers can do damage to their historical placement by sticking around too long. You can't unsee some things. Some luckily have years and years of epic fights that minimize the ugly losses at the end like Sugar Ray and Iron Mike but other boxers that didn't have those big FOY type fights have less of a safety net to work with IMO.

Where do you rate GGG in an all time middleweight rating?

I have a hard time with the "all time" questions, buddy. I feel as though you really can't get a full feel for a boxer unless you were alive during their career and was witness to the fights in real time. For the old time fighters, we already know who wins each of their fights on tape...we weren't around for the hype brought into the event. I can really only speak for the 42 years of Boxing that i've watched and witnessed.

With that said, GGG is the best Middleweight that i've ever seen. People yell at me and say Hagler and I can't talk bad about Marv but he did let a Welterweight come up in weight and beat him after Ray was retired for almost 3 years. Now Hagler was 32, almost 33 then. GGG is 36 and there's no way a WW was going to accomplish that and only one tried and he got his face broken, literally.

To be as dominant as GGG has been in this era where athletes are bigger, faster and lighter somehow, it's remarkable. Especially at the 160 pound spot on the scale. 195 pound guys can get to 160. 147 pound guys can get up to 160. It's the midpoint on the scale where you have to look up and down for possible challenges and no one has touched GGG. Again, remarkable.

Hagler and Golovkin are the two ATGs who would beat the rest in the ring.

boxing_rocks wrote: ↑18 Dec 2018, 19:08 Hagler and Golovkin are the two ATGs who would beat the rest in the ring.

Monzon? Robinson? Greb?

oogiebe wrote: ↑18 Dec 2018, 19:11

boxing_rocks wrote: ↑18 Dec 2018, 19:08 Hagler and Golovkin are the two ATGs who would beat the rest in the ring.

Monzon? Robinson? Greb?

Yep, and they would beat Greb within 2 rounds.

boxing_rocks wrote: ↑18 Dec 2018, 19:58

oogiebe wrote: ↑18 Dec 2018, 19:11

boxing_rocks wrote: ↑18 Dec 2018, 19:08 Hagler and Golovkin are the two ATGs who would beat the rest in the ring.

Monzon? Robinson? Greb?

Yep, and they would beat Greb within 2 rounds.

Within 2 rounds? Okidokie!

boxing_rocks wrote: ↑18 Dec 2018, 19:58

oogiebe wrote: ↑18 Dec 2018, 19:11

boxing_rocks wrote: ↑18 Dec 2018, 19:08 Hagler and Golovkin are the two ATGs who would beat the rest in the ring.

Monzon? Robinson? Greb?

Yep, and they would beat Greb within 2 rounds.

Onetimeonly wrote: ↑18 Dec 2018, 21:23

boxing_rocks wrote: ↑18 Dec 2018, 19:58

oogiebe wrote: ↑18 Dec 2018, 19:11

Monzon? Robinson? Greb?

Yep, and they would beat Greb within 2 rounds.

RIGHT!?

If you're that skeptical of his ability I'd think that would make you more impressed with his toughness.

Onetimeonly wrote: ↑18 Dec 2018, 21:31 If you're that skeptical of his ability I'd think that would make you more impressed with his toughness.

GGG is an amazing fighter with great career accomplishments. I just don't see him as the best of all time. I see him 10 - 15 at this point. In time, like many other fighters, I may have a greater appreciation for him.