BoxRec

maybe but its something that needs to be considered when ppl rate his power and look at cases where hes gone longer rounds or not finished the opponent at first blood etc, in terms of just sure power shot for shot that lands clean i think hes in the league of anyone, certanly no one in history has a lot more power then him imo

jamamb wrote: ↑26 Apr 2019, 17:13 maybe but its something that needs to be considered when ppl rate his power and look at cases where hes gone longer rounds or not finished the opponent at first blood etc, in terms of just sure power shot for shot that lands clean i think hes in the league of anyone, certanly no one in history has a lot more power then him imo

Ok, now I see your point.

jamamb wrote: ↑26 Apr 2019, 16:50 if wilder were a better skilled boxer his power wud probably be even more evident.....hed land cleaner and more often

Like GGG. You can see hurt in his opponents.

jamamb wrote: ↑26 Apr 2019, 17:13 maybe but its something that needs to be considered when ppl rate his power and look at cases where hes gone longer rounds or not finished the opponent at first blood etc, in terms of just sure power shot for shot that lands clean i think hes in the league of anyone, certanly no one in history has a lot more power then him imo

Can't think of anyone who had more single punch power. Not even Marciano's Suzie Q which was almost poetry in motion.

candyslim wrote: ↑26 Apr 2019, 13:32 You may be right Oogie but I always think of Breazeale as being very similar in flaws and attributes to the Frenchman, Johann Duhaupas. Wilder had no problem hitting him but Duhaupas took him into the late rounds and they both finished the fight looking like a pair of gargoyles.

Not Deontay's most impressive performance, I'd take some encouragement from that if I were DB.

It goes all the way back to Molina. Not even close to the level, yet drags Wilder through 9 rounds (rocking him even), followed by Duhaupas in 11, Szpilka in 9 (down on the cards), Arreola in 8, Washington in 5 (also down in the cards).

These are not good boxers. A fighter of concussive punching power finishes those fights in 3 rounds. Easy.

Wilder had Fury down twice. Fury doesn't have a granite chin. He should have been out of there.

Wilder lacks the skills to create opportunities to finish his opponents. He has to use his superior fitness to wait for his opponents to tire, then tee off on them.

Rob3_142 wrote: ↑27 Apr 2019, 03:19 It goes all the way back to Molina. Not even close to the level, yet drags Wilder through 9 rounds (rocking him even), followed by Duhaupas in 11, Szpilka in 9 (down on the cards), Arreola in 8, Washington in 5 (also down in the cards).

These are not good boxers. A fighter of concussive punching power finishes those fights in 3 rounds. Easy.

Wilder had Fury down twice. Fury doesn't have a granite chin. He should have been out of there.

Wilder lacks the skills to create opportunities to finish his opponents. He has to use his superior fitness to wait for his opponents to tire, then tee off on them.

I could be reading boxrec wrong, but appears Wilder was up on the cards on all of those fights...

Finkel wrote: ↑27 Apr 2019, 03:33 I could be reading boxrec wrong, but appears Wilder was up on the cards on all of those fights...

He was definitely down against Washington, and he was down through 6 against Szpilka (it was either level, or Wilder up by a round or so). Either way, based on the actual performance (and aside from the ambiguous judges scorecards), Wilder was in a competitive fight up until the knockout against B/C level fighters.

Rob3_142 wrote: ↑27 Apr 2019, 03:43 He was definitely down against Washington, and he was down through 6 against Szpilka (it was either level, or Wilder up by a round or so). Either way, based on the actual performance (and aside from the ambiguous judges scorecards), Wilder was in a competitive fight up until the knockout against B/C level fighters.

I just checked. Wilder was up in both on the cards. Though I agree he 'should have been' behind. I remember looking into this previously.

Let's put it this way, for anyone who watched those fights and reviewed the cards wouldn't be exactly surprised by the scores for the Wilder Fury fight.

I'm pretty confident he will have a similar insurance policy in this fight against Breazeale should he need it

Rob3_142 wrote: ↑27 Apr 2019, 03:19 Wilder had Fury down twice. Fury doesn't have a granite chin. He should have been out of there.

Wilder lacks the skills to create opportunities to finish his opponents. He has to use his superior fitness to wait for his opponents to tire, then tee off on them.

TBH, Both KD's were not strong or connected with full contact..

Especially the 2nd one. Fury was already moving backwards, so was probably hit with less force. Had he walked into the punch, then he would have been KTFO.

oogiebe wrote: ↑26 Apr 2019, 16:38 Fair points. Although I believe he's more effective then most give him credit for.

I don't like him very much but he's a good fighter and can punch like the best of them. I'd say Shavers hit harder but that might be nostalgia bias.

He's also got decent stamina, a very respectable chin, and a champion's heart. He's no pushover for anyone ... except maybe Joshua but that remains to be seen, and quite possibly never will

Wilder To Use Helenius For Sparring, To Prepare For Breazeale

Heavyweight Robert "the Nordic Nightmare" Helenius (28-2) heads for the United States and Tuscaloosa, Alabama, and the training camp of WBC champ Deontay Wilder for some sparring in the early part of May. With him is trainer Johan Lundstrom.

It´s not yet officially confirmed but Iltasanomat in Finland writes that next fight for Helenius is in June in the US against Adam Kownacki. (19-0).

Decent fight although Kownacki would be a strong favourite. 65 - 35 maybe?

I'd argue more like 90-10.

Helenius has officially dropped off the competitive radar, and into the sparring partner mode. I see Kownacki just overwhelming him and the Finn quitting on his stool in the second half of the fight.

Ruthless-RKO wrote: ↑27 Apr 2019, 04:12 TBH, Both KD's were not strong or connected with full contact..

Especially the 2nd one. Fury was already moving backwards, so was probably hit with less force. Had he walked into the punch, then he would have been KTFO.

But this is exactly my point.

A lack of technique and timing, not being able to construct openings, and relying on someone walking onto a hell Mary.

This for me is the biggest difference between Joshua and Wilder.

Thomastearns wrote: ↑26 Apr 2019, 19:42 Can't think of anyone who had more single punch power. Not even Marciano's Suzie Q which was almost poetry in motion.

Wilder somehow managed to escape fighting the best for years in one of the weakest eras of HW boxing. He's got power, but his complete lack of resume has to be taken into account if you're going to mention him alongside Marciano, Foreman, Shavers, Louis, Tyson, Wlad etc etc etc.

Odd someone with that moniker would search to find the biggest one punch ko artist ever.

Ruthless-RKO wrote: ↑06 May 2019, 17:46

Breazeale isn't even close to the speed of a plastic disc.

Wilder is fighting a large dude with 18 KOs and only one loss, to AJ. Who are AJ and Fury fighting?

Wilder fought Fury to a draw, knocking him down twice. Who else has done that?

Cue the sour pussed “Fury was robbed!!” parrots.

No, he was not. He was fortunate to finish the fight. Fury boxed as well as could be expected and got a draw.

Wilder is eviscerated for it.

I hope Wilder wins so we can get Wilder v AJ or the Fury rematch. Wilder is not a great tech. He does not have the strongest resume. But every one of his fights is high drama, start to finish.

For you not to see that as a robbery you would have to expect one judge to give Deontay the nod.

So which 6 rounds do you think he won?
That's 4 outside of the two knock down rounds

The judge who gave deontay the nod, thought he won 7 rounds! That's 5 outside the two knock down rounds.

ironbeard wrote: ↑06 May 2019, 22:19 Wilder is fighting a large dude with 18 KOs and only one loss, to AJ. Who are AJ and Fury fighting?

Wilder fought Fury to a draw, knocking him down twice. Who else has done that?

Cue the sour pussed “Fury was robbed!!” parrots.

No, he was not. He was fortunate to finish the fight. Fury boxed as well as could be expected and got a draw.

Wilder is eviscerated for it.

I hope Wilder wins so we can get Wilder v AJ or the Fury rematch. Wilder is not a great tech. He does not have the strongest resume. But every one of his fights is high drama, start to finish.

furys fighting a can, worst of all the opponents for sure

wilders fighting an okayish so so guy who your trying to dress up in flattering clothes. its dom breazeale man, not a guy to play the 'give him credit ' card on really.

aj was fighting a legit top 10 contender who was the best of the 3 opponents, then once that fell threw ajs team made a huge offer to ortiz that orts side rejected. i though ruiz beat parker btw

Finkel wrote: ↑06 May 2019, 23:18 For you not to see that as a robbery you would have to expect one judge to give Deontay the nod.

So which 6 rounds do you think he won?
That's 4 outside of the two knock down rounds

The judge who gave deontay the nod, thought he won 7 rounds! That's 5 outside the two knock down rounds.

i think ironbeard actually had wilder winning 8 rounds, or was that gilgamesh

Finkel wrote: ↑06 May 2019, 23:18 For you not to see that as a robbery you would have to expect one judge to give Deontay the nod.

So which 6 rounds do you think he won?
That's 4 outside of the two knock down rounds

The judge who gave deontay the nod, thought he won 7 rounds! That's 5 outside the two knock down rounds.

Like I said, “on cue.”

jamamb wrote: ↑06 May 2019, 23:20 furys fighting a can, worst of all the opponents for sure

wilders fighting an okayish so so guy who your trying to dress up in flattering clothes. its dom breazeale man, not a guy to play the 'give him credit ' card on really.

aj was fighting a legit top 10 contender who was the best of the 3 opponents, then once that fell threw ajs team made a huge offer to ortiz that orts side rejected. i though ruiz beat parker btw

My point was not a criticism of AJ. It was just defending Wilder. AJ is the current king of the hill.

ironbeard wrote: ↑07 May 2019, 00:52 Like I said, “on cue.”

Well you did make a pretty bold claim from a minority position. It's hardly outrageous that I (or someone else) would ask you to back it up.

I'm pretty sure we were both in the minority at the weekend in giving Jacobs the draw against Canelo. But I can recognize I was holding a minority position on what I saw to be a close fight, but it's not like I would ever try to argue that Jacobs won (which would be required to justify a draw on the cards).

As I say, I'm all ears on where you would pull a Deontay victory from...