BoxRec

One day soon we'll have two 300lb ex-basketball players show up in a boxing ring, throw three punches per round and be declared the greatest masters of the sweet science in the history of the world because they'll be all that's out there. If a tremendously poor boxer with no chin and no heart loses to a mediocre giant who can throw four or five punches a round without falling on his face and can grin like a monkey, this is not really boxing as long-time followers of the sport know it. This is a pathetic show put on by what passes for the best of a piss-poor lot. These guys now are in the same class as Primo Carnera, Jose Santa, Ewart Potgieter, Jim Cully, etc some people thought they'd be great just because they were big. Like the top heavies today they had limited ability and size and showed that much smaller, faster more skilled punchers could make them look like the pretenders they were.

liamlion wrote: ↑17 Jun 2019, 17:40 Wow! On what basis exactly? Certainly not on the punches landed stats...

My position is (too) well documented on the subject. I have no problem with the draw and I would not be whining if Fury had been gifted a close decision.

I do NOT take into account punch stats after the fact to support my real-time cards.

ironbeard wrote: ↑19 Jun 2019, 16:12 My position is (too) well documented on the subject. I have no problem with the draw and I would not be whining if Fury had been gifted a close decision.

I do NOT take into account punch stats after the fact to support my real-time cards.

you think a fury close decision wouldve been a gift to him?

Hilarious that anyone scores by punch stats. Even more hilarious that 84-70 or whatever in a 12 Rd fight is supposed to be significant. Fury dominated the 10th Rd. That's it. He appeared to edge more rounds with the view of TV but counting on s guy pressing a button to come up with 5 punches to 2 and expect the ringside judges with obstructed views to clearly see every shot and not think a close bomb from wilder didn't miss is assclowning. Fact of the matter is well over half the RDS could have went either way, except 2 two pt rounds for wilder and 1 or 2 for fury. Good decision ya whining bitches.

Onetimeonly wrote: ↑19 Jun 2019, 16:45 Hilarious that anyone scores by punch stats. Even more hilarious that 84-70 or whatever in a 12 Rd fight is supposed to be significant. Fury dominated the 10th Rd. That's it. He appeared to edge more rounds with the view of TV but counting on s guy pressing a button to come up with 5 punches to 2 and expect the ringside judges with obstructed views to clearly see every shot and not think a close bomb from wilder didn't miss is assclowning. Fact of the matter is well over half the RDS could have went either way, except 2 two pt rounds for wilder and 1 or 2 for fury. Good decision ya whining bitches.

Yeah. With Wilder's knockdowns factored in I think the draw is ultimately the right call as it definitely should happen again.

Onetimeonly wrote: ↑19 Jun 2019, 16:45 Hilarious that anyone scores by punch stats. Even more hilarious that 84-70 or whatever in a 12 Rd fight is supposed to be significant. Fury dominated the 10th Rd. That's it. He appeared to edge more rounds with the view of TV but counting on s guy pressing a button to come up with 5 punches to 2 and expect the ringside judges with obstructed views to clearly see every shot and not think a close bomb from wilder didn't miss is assclowning. Fact of the matter is well over half the RDS could have went either way, except 2 two pt rounds for wilder and 1 or 2 for fury. Good decision ya whining bitches.

Well said. But it won't end the whining.

Ruthless-RKO wrote: ↑19 Jun 2019, 10:36 If only Whyte was as confident as Ruiz, he could have beaten AJ and make even more for the rematch.

I think that AJ upset had many contributing factors don’t you? The biggest being Ruiz’s confidence, improvement and performance. I don’t want to take away from Ruiz at all. But I also can’t ignore AJ fighting away from home for 1st time and not arriving in US in enough time to get acclimated. He also didn’t have a lot of time to put any kind of study in on a new opponent. I honestly think that had Miller been the opponent inside the ring that night. I feel AJ wins rather comfortably because I just never bought in on Baby being any more than a soundbite.

What I’m trying to say is that I think that any top quality heavyweight in Ruiz’s shoes that night was primed to take AJ down. AJ was essentially fighting at 3:30am in the morning bc he wasn’t acclimated. There were a ton of contributors and I think that we’ll find out in the rematch if it was a perfect storm for Ruiz to grab glory or if we’re looking at a guy that got too rich, too quickly, too young and too easily. If a boxers not in it for the love of it and just for the money, where’s the motivation coming from once he’s cashed in? Me, myself? Once I made the cash, I’m out and enjoying life while I can.

Cap wrote: ↑19 Jun 2019, 13:05 One day soon we'll have two 300lb ex-basketball players show up in a boxing ring, throw three punches per round and be declared the greatest masters of the sweet science in the history of the world because they'll be all that's out there. If a tremendously poor boxer with no chin and no heart loses to a mediocre giant who can throw four or five punches a round without falling on his face and can grin like a monkey, this is not really boxing as long-time followers of the sport know it. This is a pathetic show put on by what passes for the best of a piss-poor lot. These guys now are in the same class as Primo Carnera, Jose Santa, Ewart Potgieter, Jim Cully, etc some people thought they'd be great just because they were big. Like the top heavies today they had limited ability and size and showed that much smaller, faster more skilled punchers could make them look like the pretenders they were.

While I don't think that the physical advantages of today's Heavyweights makes them unbeatable for the more average sized Heavyweights of yesteryear, I gotta say I disagree with your painting all the current guys in the same light as Primo Carnera. Any unbias observer can take a look at a guy like Tyson Fury, and see that he has more fluidity and grace than Carnera ever even thought about being able to exhibit.

Wilder and Joshua may be a little more statuesque in their movement, but even they are a far cry from Carnera in terms of ability and technical refinement.

These guys aren't unbeatable, but they've come a long way in terms of skill development since those days. For a long time it would almost seem like you couldn't find a guy who was that tall who had any coordination worth a damn. Maybe it was just a long time before anybody knew how to train these guys.

That being said. They're still not unbeatable by the average sized Heavyweights. It just takes an exceptional talent to overcome the size disadvantage, but size alone doesn't make an opponent unbeatable.

oogiebe wrote: ↑19 Jun 2019, 16:53 Well said. But it won't end the whining.

i still recall you saying at first it was clear fury, am i wrong or did u change ur mind

jamamb wrote: ↑19 Jun 2019, 18:01 i still recall you saying at first it was clear fury, am i wrong or did u change ur mind

I had Fury up by one or two but had several rounds extremely close. I'm sure I also said a draw was easy to see. The only thing I completely disagreed with was the 115-111 scoring. I also remember saying the first 4-5 rounds (?) could've gone either way. I like OTO's post as a response.

You're like the 'gadfly' of BoxRec! LOL!

i could be thinking of someone else, there was someone who was defo a wilder bombsquad boi who was adament that fury won and it surprised me, may have been someone else

jamamb wrote: ↑19 Jun 2019, 18:19 i could be thinking of someone else, there was someone who was defo a wilder bombsquad boi who was adament that fury won and it surprised me, may have been someone else

I thought Fury won when I watched it. I just wasn't outraged by the decision. Too many folks calling it a robbery and that Tyson schooled Wilder I don't agree with. I have the rematch 50/50 maybe leaning to Wilder because of his lights out power.

jamamb wrote: ↑19 Jun 2019, 16:23 you think a fury close decision wouldve been a gift to him?

I don’t think that a draw was a robbery either way. Yes, I do think that a Fury decision would have been a gift. But, with as many close rounds as there were, I would have been ok with it, while disagreeing., kind of like Gingerhead v 3G II, which I felt should have been a draw.

did u think wilder clearly won at least 5 rounds?

jamamb wrote: ↑19 Jun 2019, 20:06 did u think wilder clearly won at least 5 rounds?

I can easily see Wilder be given three OTHER rounds than the two KD rounds. I had a lot rather even.

ya, that would be a draw, i can see the draw, though i had fury winning

but i defo dont think wilder won enough clear to say fury wouldve got a gift if he won

really it needs a rematch to sort it out

jamamb wrote: ↑19 Jun 2019, 20:29 ya, that would be a draw, i can see the draw, though i had fury winning

but i defo dont think wilder won enough clear to say fury wouldve got a gift if he won

really it needs a rematch to sort it out

That I can agree with. Then the winner needs to fight Dawejko.

Cap wrote: ↑19 Jun 2019, 13:05 One day soon we'll have two 300lb ex-basketball players show up in a boxing ring, throw three punches per round and be declared the greatest masters of the sweet science in the history of the world because they'll be all that's out there. If a tremendously poor boxer with no chin and no heart loses to a mediocre giant who can throw four or five punches a round without falling on his face and can grin like a monkey, this is not really boxing as long-time followers of the sport know it. This is a pathetic show put on by what passes for the best of a piss-poor lot. These guys now are in the same class as Primo Carnera, Jose Santa, Ewart Potgieter, Jim Cully, etc some people thought they'd be great just because they were big. Like the top heavies today they had limited ability and size and showed that much smaller, faster more skilled punchers could make them look like the pretenders they were.

You clearly don't know boxing because nobody would put Carnera and Cully in the same sentence. Carnera beat Santa, Impeltierre, etc--- he wasn't some bullshit con perpetrated on people. Manufactured, fake, humbugs don't hit the deck and get up 11 times against one of the top 100 punchers of all time. Illegitimate fighters don't win decisions over Uzcudon and Loughran.

For a "contributor" of this site you sure don't know much ado about nothing but give stereotypical responses: "IN MY DAY ATHLETES WERE ATHLETES!", etc. But especially you--- your standby is always the 60s & 70s and beating your little weenus over how great Ali was.

THAT WAS THEN AND THIS IS NOW.... live in the fornicating present, quite with the false equivalencies, stop comparing, and try to find SOMETHING to be happy about with this division and this sport.

It's people like you who run down everybody today and earn a living just by uttering bullshit. Any couch potato drinking beer all day can do your job. You're not taking the punches in there. You ought to kiss Fury's big white ass because without the boxers you'd be living in a van down by the river instead of getting free tickets in the press row at all the events just because your some "journalist".

jamamb wrote: ↑19 Jun 2019, 20:06 did u think wilder clearly won at least 5 rounds?

Stop with the amateur hour interrogation. I have been clear about my opinion, and my real-time score. I shaded more rounds to Wilder. I would have considered Fury getting the decision a gift that night. I had no problem with the draw based on the FACT that almost nothing happened in a minimum of 8 rounds. I would have disagreed with the close decision for Fury that night and moved on based on that proliferation of close rounds.

Meanwhile, 7 or 8 months later, Furyots are still weeping and wailing and claiming robbery and victory, in a fight where man-crush’s main accomplishments were clowning at the end of every round and managing to get up from KDs.

For the Furyots, their man-crush reaching a decision was the only prerequisite to victory. Their behavior has been pitiful.

Any further questions, wannabe Peter Falk?

lol, thats a lot of words for never actually answering a simple question, triggered much bruh

so all these rounds hardly anything happened, but a close fury decision wudve been a gift, just seems a strange 2 points to make together

jamamb wrote: ↑20 Jun 2019, 11:47 lol, thats a lot of words for never actually answering a simple question, triggered much bruh

so all these rounds hardly anything happened, but a close fury decision wudve been a gift, just seems a strange 2 points to make together

I thought it was a fair question, so I answered it.

jamamb wrote: ↑20 Jun 2019, 11:47 lol, thats a lot of words for never actually answering a simple question, triggered much bruh

so all these rounds hardly anything happened, but a close fury decision wudve been a gift, just seems a strange 2 points to make together

Yes, I did answer the question. You, along with others on the forum today, are having a hard time with reading and comprehension.

ironbeard wrote: ↑20 Jun 2019, 12:01 Yes, I did answer the question. You, along with others on the forum today, are having a hard time with reading and comprehension.

so u say this ' almost nothing happened in a minimum of 8 rounds'

but then did wilder clearly win at least 5? enough rounds to mean it wudve been beyond fury winning exceptna gift to fury?

simple question, yes or no, doesnt need triggered paragraphs

God not this strawman again.

The reason people scream robbery is because one of the judges clearly had decided Wilder was winning the fight no matter what.

A lot of you refuse to watch the fight back, to get an unclouded view. Sure judges only get to call it once, in the moment. But most of us are not professional judges, so perhaps would benefit from a second viewing without the commentary.

But yeah, that card in favour of Wilder was criminal.
The card doesnt reflect the reality of scoring a fight and what was on display that night.

It's true though, that had Fury avoided the 12th round knock down, he would have won the fight. He didn't, and it ended up a draw.
But even if he had avoided the knock down, Rochin would have still handed in a dirty card.