BoxRec

Posted: **28 Aug 2023, 06:19**

margaret thatcher wrote: ↑28 Aug 2023, 05:38 Call him or quitter or dont call him a quitter, but dubois is a mentally weak fighter and basically admitted it himself on the weekend.

said he was disheartened by the ref's call of a low blow and couldnt muster up anything because he was so discouraged by it. what an awful mindset. a killer instead looks at it like 'i know i can hurt him, he's feeling it now, i've got him vulnerable'

I think it's a BS explanation. He wasn't complaining about the shot not being low at the time because he probably thought it was low. He quit in the fight and wanted out with almost every heavyweight belt on the line. The "i got discouraged" is just an excuse after the fact when the team latched onto the low blow as the excuse. I almost never believe fighter excuses.

Posted: **28 Aug 2023, 06:26**

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2020/ ... ois-family

His dad had visions of him being HW champion of the World even before he was born.
He's young, and there's still time once this current crop at the top are gone.

Posted: **28 Aug 2023, 06:47**

The Gratest wrote: ↑28 Aug 2023, 06:26 https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2020/ ... ois-family

His dad had visions of him being HW champion of the World even before he was born.
He's young, and there's still time once this current crop at the top are gone.

Big ask since he will quit when the going gets tough. He needs early KOs or dominant fights where he never faces adversity. Imagine Makhmudov coming after him. I don't even see him beating a Fabio Wardley, Adeleye or Frazer Clarke even. Anyone who has the ability to stay in there and get Dubois in the trenches will beat him. He could never beat Hrgovic or Jalolev and they are young enough to always be around when Dubois is around. I am not even sure he'd beat Chisora despite how washed Chisora looked vs Washington.

Posted: **28 Aug 2023, 06:51**

TheLeprechaun wrote: ↑28 Aug 2023, 06:47
The Gratest wrote: ↑28 Aug 2023, 06:26 https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2020/ ... ois-family

His dad had visions of him being HW champion of the World even before he was born.
He's young, and there's still time once this current crop at the top are gone.
Big ask since he will quit when the going gets tough. He needs early KOs or dominant fights where he never faces adversity. Imagine Makhmudov coming after him. I don't even see him beating a Fabio Wardley, Adeleye or Frazer Clarke even. Anyone who has the ability to stay in there and get Dubois in the trenches will beat him. He could never beat Hrgovic or Jalolev and they are young enough to always be around when Dubois is around. I am not even sure he'd beat Chisora despite how washed Chisora looked vs Washington.

Yeah, I know, I was just being nice because he does seem a nice lad.
It does come across though from that article that being HW champ is his father's dream rather than his dream.

Posted: **28 Aug 2023, 07:57**

I think if I was to pick a time for Frank Bruno to prosper it would be around now. If we take off Fury and Usyk for being too cute, Frank could be a comfortable world number 3 here.

Posted: **28 Aug 2023, 18:42**

There can be a bit of an obsession among fans to declare a boxer is a quitter or has a glass jaw or has no stamina etc, but Dubois does seem to be an on-top fighter, not especially sturdy and simply isn't world class...yet.

At 25 he can still come again. The problem is W@rren is hopeless at developing heavyweights.

What's Dubois' best win ??? He's unprepared for world class bouts.

I could live with Daniel taking a risk with Joyce but he had no chance against Usyk.

I suppose W@rren will be able to point at Dubois' bank balance as his measure of success, but the career itself is not fulfilling the potential IMO.

Posted: **28 Aug 2023, 18:47**

THEBUTCH wrote: ↑28 Aug 2023, 18:42 There can be a bit of an obsession among fans to declare a boxer is a quitter or has a glass jaw or has no stamina etc, but Dubois does seem to be an on-stop fighter, not especially sturdy and simply isn't world class...yet.

At 25 he can still come again. The problem is W@rren is hopeless at developing heavyweights.

What's Dubois' best win ??? He's unprepared for world class bouts.

I could live with Daniel taking a risk with Joyce but he had no chance against Usyk.

I suppose W@rren will be able to point at Dubois' bank balance as his measure of success, but the career itself is not fulfilling the potential IMO.

There are people on here who say he's better than Zhilei Zhang without any question. Just like you'd say Usyk is better than Bellew.

Posted: **28 Aug 2023, 19:08**

THEBUTCH wrote: ↑28 Aug 2023, 18:42 There can be a bit of an obsession among fans to declare a boxer is a quitter or has a glass jaw or has no stamina etc, but Dubois does seem to be an on-stop fighter, not especially sturdy and simply isn't world class...yet.

At 25 he can still come again. The problem is W@rren is hopeless at developing heavyweights.

What's Dubois' best win ??? He's unprepared for world class bouts.

I could live with Daniel taking a risk with Joyce but he had no chance against Usyk.

I suppose W@rren will be able to point at Dubois' bank balance as his measure of success, but the career itself is not fulfilling the potential IMO.

Not just heavyweights.

Anyone.

Look at Yarde.

Fought Kovalev having not fought anyone to prepare him for it..

Then loses to Arthur, gets revenge and then takes on Beterbiev.

He had no fights to prepare him for sum challenges.

Posted: **28 Aug 2023, 21:11**

I believe the low played a massive part in Dub's late rise, where he had the presence of mind to choose his claim of being robbed over the risk of trying to win. I feel he had enough left for one last go but cut his losses.

Posted: **30 Aug 2023, 02:53**

Jr has a pretty bad habit of taking a knee under pressure. He could have carried on in both his KO losses. The Joyce fight, give him benefit of the doubt, but againt Usyk he should have stood up. Its pretty hard to say he didnt quit in that one, and its likely that in future fights, under adversity he'll take a knee again, and choose not to continue. He'll quit.

Posted: **30 Aug 2023, 03:12**

Bigdogsnose wrote: ↑30 Aug 2023, 02:53 Jr has a pretty bad habit of taking a knee under pressure. He could have carried on in both his KO losses. The Joyce fight, give him benefit of the doubt, but againt Usyk he should have stood up. Its pretty hard to say he didnt quit in that one, and its likely that in future fights, under adversity he'll take a knee again, and choose not to continue. He'll quit.

Taking a knee is there for a reason..

But Dubois abuses it..

Posted: **30 Aug 2023, 03:45**

Ruthless-RKO wrote: ↑30 Aug 2023, 03:12
Bigdogsnose wrote: ↑30 Aug 2023, 02:53 Jr has a pretty bad habit of taking a knee under pressure. He could have carried on in both his KO losses. The Joyce fight, give him benefit of the doubt, but againt Usyk he should have stood up. Its pretty hard to say he didnt quit in that one, and its likely that in future fights, under adversity he'll take a knee again, and choose not to continue. He'll quit.
Taking a knee is there for a reason..

But Dubois abuses it..

I think he is one of the few people smart with it… if your not going to win on points why not take a knee if you need it…..

Where he fucked up this time was getting up at 9.5… still up in time so I can’t fulllly blame him, but he didn’t try look keen to continue. should be up just after 8 to rule out any doubt.

Posted: **30 Aug 2023, 07:09**

Ruthless-RKO wrote: ↑30 Aug 2023, 03:12
Bigdogsnose wrote: ↑30 Aug 2023, 02:53 Jr has a pretty bad habit of taking a knee under pressure. He could have carried on in both his KO losses. The Joyce fight, give him benefit of the doubt, but againt Usyk he should have stood up. Its pretty hard to say he didnt quit in that one, and its likely that in future fights, under adversity he'll take a knee again, and choose not to continue. He'll quit.
Taking a knee is there for a reason..

But Dubois abuses it..

Aye, its normally a savvy thing to do. You want to take the full time to regain your senses, but Dubois does it under minimal pressure. Looks for a way out doesnt he.

Posted: **30 Aug 2023, 08:57**

polecateddy wrote: ↑28 Aug 2023, 07:57 I think if I was to pick a time for Frank Bruno to prosper it would be around now. If we take off Fury and Usyk for being too cute, Frank could be a comfortable world number 3 here.

Bruno would beat Joshua and Wilder. I would probably take him over Fury.

Posted: **30 Aug 2023, 09:09**

TheLeprechaun wrote: ↑30 Aug 2023, 08:57
polecateddy wrote: ↑28 Aug 2023, 07:57 I think if I was to pick a time for Frank Bruno to prosper it would be around now. If we take off Fury and Usyk for being too cute, Frank could be a comfortable world number 3 here.
Bruno would beat Joshua and Wilder. I would probably take him over Fury.

Lol Bruno is so overrated. Which world class fighters did he actually beat?

Posted: **30 Aug 2023, 10:13**

JamesPhilips wrote: ↑30 Aug 2023, 09:09
TheLeprechaun wrote: ↑30 Aug 2023, 08:57
polecateddy wrote: ↑28 Aug 2023, 07:57 I think if I was to pick a time for Frank Bruno to prosper it would be around now. If we take off Fury and Usyk for being too cute, Frank could be a comfortable world number 3 here.
Bruno would beat Joshua and Wilder. I would probably take him over Fury.
Lol Bruno is so overrated. Which world class fighters did he actually beat?

none

Posted: **30 Aug 2023, 10:15**

stevec@france wrote: ↑30 Aug 2023, 10:13
JamesPhilips wrote: ↑30 Aug 2023, 09:09
TheLeprechaun wrote: ↑30 Aug 2023, 08:57

Bruno would beat Joshua and Wilder. I would probably take him over Fury.
Lol Bruno is so overrated. Which world class fighters did he actually beat?
none

You mean, apart from Oliver McCall and Gerrie Coetzee?

Posted: **30 Aug 2023, 11:29**

I kind of gave Dubois a pass against Joyce but to take a count from a jab isn’t great. He didn’t look hurt and was looking at his corner which suggests he knew where he was. It certainly adds a question mark over his heart or ability to fight when the going gets tough. He doesn’t seem particularly confident, whether that’s just his general demeanour I don’t know.

Posted: **30 Aug 2023, 12:10**

jwfg wrote: ↑30 Aug 2023, 10:15
stevec@france wrote: ↑30 Aug 2023, 10:13
JamesPhilips wrote: ↑30 Aug 2023, 09:09

Lol Bruno is so overrated. Which world class fighters did he actually beat?
none
You mean, apart from Oliver McCall and Gerrie Coetzee?

Oliver McCall was in the middle of a crack binge / breakdown and Gertie Coetzee didn’t train and came for a holiday with his family.

Posted: **30 Aug 2023, 13:00**

I agree with Dixon's OP on Dubois.

But I'm wondering, how do we factor last weekend's performance into our judgment of Dubois? Did Usyk wear down his physical durability (in which case DD doesn't take a punch well) or did he break Dubois's willpower?

I still think Dubois's a good fighter, definitely a legitimate top-ten heavyweight. But I wonder how much of his Usyk loss was mental.

Posted: **30 Aug 2023, 13:18**

Joson wrote: ↑30 Aug 2023, 13:00 I agree with Dixon's OP on Dubois.

But I'm wondering, how do we factor last weekend's performance into our judgment of Dubois? Did Usyk wear down his physical durability (in which case DD doesn't take a punch well) or did he break Dubois's willpower?

I still think Dubois's a good fighter, definitely a legitimate top-ten heavyweight. But I wonder how much of his Usyk loss was mental.

dubois admitted himself he was discouraged and says it stopped him from getting any momentum, he's defo mentally not a strong fighter.

he should've smelt blood when he dropped usyk with an illegal punch, instead usyk ended that round stronger and everything since then has been a feel sorry for me fest, which has been enabled by other cry babies

Posted: **30 Aug 2023, 13:40**

JamesPhilips wrote: ↑30 Aug 2023, 12:10
jwfg wrote: ↑30 Aug 2023, 10:15
stevec@france wrote: ↑30 Aug 2023, 10:13

none
You mean, apart from Oliver McCall and Gerrie Coetzee?
Oliver McCall was in the middle of a crack binge / breakdown and Gertie Coetzee didn’t train and came for a holiday with his family.

Oliver McCall was ranked number #2 in the world by Ring Magazine when Bruno beat him. Coetzee was ranked #6 for 1985 and was still a top ten heavyweight when Frank beat him.. The rest is just speculation.

So, you're wrong. Bruno did beat world class fighters,

Posted: **31 Aug 2023, 08:35**

jwfg wrote: ↑30 Aug 2023, 13:40
JamesPhilips wrote: ↑30 Aug 2023, 12:10
jwfg wrote: ↑30 Aug 2023, 10:15

You mean, apart from Oliver McCall and Gerrie Coetzee?
Oliver McCall was in the middle of a crack binge / breakdown and Gertie Coetzee didn’t train and came for a holiday with his family.
Oliver McCall was ranked number #2 in the world by Ring Magazine when Bruno beat him. Coetzee was ranked #6 for 1985 and was still a top ten heavyweight when Frank beat him.. The rest is just speculation.

So, you're wrong. Bruno did beat world class fighters,

Correct, and a number of solid fringe contenders. Bruno was a difficult nights work for better fighters than Joshua or Wilder, that is for sure.

Posted: **31 Aug 2023, 10:26**

Flump wrote: ↑31 Aug 2023, 08:35
jwfg wrote: ↑30 Aug 2023, 13:40
JamesPhilips wrote: ↑30 Aug 2023, 12:10

Oliver McCall was in the middle of a crack binge / breakdown and Gertie Coetzee didn’t train and came for a holiday with his family.
Oliver McCall was ranked number #2 in the world by Ring Magazine when Bruno beat him. Coetzee was ranked #6 for 1985 and was still a top ten heavyweight when Frank beat him.. The rest is just speculation.

So, you're wrong. Bruno did beat world class fighters,
Correct, and a number of solid fringe contenders. Bruno was a difficult nights work for better fighters than Joshua or Wilder, that is for sure.

Bruno is the most overrated British fighter ever, he wouldn’t beat anyone in the top 10 except Daniel Dubois possibly

Posted: **31 Aug 2023, 10:56**

Of course he quit. There is no doubt of that. The Joyce fight was different, his eye was a real mess, but this one he stayed down for a count that he could easily have beat.

I think it was down to the fact that he just lost heart and was running out of gas. Still can`t call that anything other than quitting last Saturday night.

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