Cyclops wrote: ↑03 Sep 2022, 07:19
jamesmcdonnell wrote: ↑03 Sep 2022, 05:22
Cyclops wrote: ↑02 Sep 2022, 18:51
The thing is, as someone who has worked with homeless people and smack heads and crackheads and stuff, I have to make him right here. The UK is one of the richest countries in the world, yet we've got increasing numbers of people lining the streets homeless and hopeless and just kind of ignored, and then you've got a load of 'right on' people calling working class people gammons and saying we should take on and help all the hopeless across the globe.
I'm not knocking the sentiment of the 'do-gooders', of course everyone regardless of where they're from deserves care and support. We're a first world country. Of course people want to come here. It's only right.
But in Britain we can't even look after our own scumbags. I used to live in Finsbury Park, near the tube, and the number of class A addicted homeless living under the bridge since I moved away has increased to almost epidemic levels. It was a shithole when I lived there before it became gentrified like it is now, but at least the poverty wasn't so in your face. People were poor, and crime was rife: but people had somewhere to live and were just about getting by. Now? It's pretty shocking. If we can't look after our own people that have fallen through the cracks, how are we supposed to look after the rest of the worlds'? It's not about race, black white, brown or whatever. Its indiscriminate. People are fucked economically.
It sounds like an old school right wing thing to say, but I'm a leftie through and through. And he's echoing something that I've said only recently.
Someone needs to say it. We as as a society have shunned and ignored our own poor for far too long. It's a serious issue.
The fact is, there's little or no willingness to even attempt to tackle homelessness. It could be greatly solved with a wealth tax, but guess what, it won't happen.
The migrant issue is a red herring masking the real problem.
Homelessness isn't just a housing issue, though. Most of these people are drug addicts or alcoholics and have mental health problems. The mental health system is absolutely decimated and barely functioning, and the rehab and support for street homeless drug addicts isn't really effective: these are f*cking difficult people to deal with. You can't just give them a shower and a haircut and imagine they're just suddenly going to become a functioning human. Lots of them will require a lifetime of support and input. There is nowhere in the world with some sort of fantastic utopian model to emulate where rich people have suddenly got a bit nicer and started sharing a bit more.
All the services and drained and f*cked: the NHS, the fire brigade, the police, the ambulance service, the social services, schools, all running on overtime and a knackered skeleton work force. People moan about these services being crap, but they're just so stretched... I totally get what you're saying, but while the rich are getting richer the rest of us are going to be kicked around severely for the next couple of years and when the infrastructure we have can barely function as it is, and it's going to break. It's already broken, really. It's falling apart.
8,644 migrants arrived in Dover alone in August. (
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politic ... 22825.html ) That's a lot of people. For a bit of context, the estimated population of Dover in 2020 was 45,100. So, if roughly the same number of migrants, or more, which is what people are concerned about, make the crossing every month then you've got the population of the town they're arriving in twice over in a year. All of these people need housing, schools, services, food, running water, electricity, gas, education for the nippers... And that's just the bare basics. How are we going to provide that, when we're struggling to provide that for the people already here? Migrants aren't coming over with suitcases of cash and a neat little folder with all of their qualification certificates. They're desperate. They're going to have a lot of issues. They're going to need a lot of help.
Saying it's a red herring to mask the real problem is a cop out. Just to be clear, I don't hate these people and I'd like to help them all and accommodate them and be part of the welcoming, safe haven they dream of when they make their perilous journey across the channel in some rubber boat to line the pockets of some scumbag smuggler who doesn't care if they live or die. But they are not a 'red herring'. They are an issue. And nobody can have a frank discussion about it. You don't have to be some sub-BNP UKIP twat to consider that.
Again, I concur with much of this.
The gutting of the mental health and social work systems, has resulted in huge numbers of people with mental health issues and drug problems (often both) are now roaming the streets.
You should see the problem with homeless drug addicts around my way, it's really pretty dreadful, and it's getting worse all the time.
We have to get rid of the government we have currently as a starting point, I have very little faith in Starmer, he's not much better than the tories, but it's the lesser of two evils, and at the least, he will likely stop the rot in hollowing out the state, which the tories have been doing over the last decade, with their 'tighten your belts' horseshite.
It's incredible the sums of money the government was able to find, to hand out juicy contracts for PPE and other services during the pandemic, many of which were never delivered or were found to be ill suited - and yet the money is never there when it is for critical services that help everyday people.
The figures of the number of migrants crossing the channel is worrying, and it's likely to get worse -
However, to give some context, Germany takes in huge numbers more migrants than we do, per capita, and yet has half the number of homeless. So there is something badly wrong here. The fact Germany has plenty of stable, affordable housing, is no doubt a big factor here.
In fact the UK has the worst homelessness figures in the G7, and in fact some of the worst worldwide - which is pretty astonishing considering how wealthy the country is.
It would be interesting to see how many migrants are actually given leave to remain in the country, how many abscond, and how many are returned, and therefore how many actual new people enter the country.
What is without doubt, is that migrants, according to all known statistics, are net contributors to the economy long term, they tend to be younger, and claim less benefits.
The housing issue has been kicked down the road for 30 years now, with no government daring to upset home owning voters, especially those who derive income from 2nd homes and more.
The country is like a bucket shot with holes, the water is leaking out in multiple locations, immigration is only one hole, there are many more, and it's not at the core of our problems.
That doesn't mean we shouldn't discuss it, but there's a danger that immigrants are villified, much like the poor and working class, as the reason that we are where we are.
