BoxRec

Steveh583 wrote: ↑22 Aug 2022, 18:00 It makes you think, if they had fought, would fury have beaten him before they even stepped in the ring. Would Tyson have run rings around him in regards to mind games?

stujones wrote: ↑22 Aug 2022, 17:34 Not sure what it was about the belt throwing and he was definitely concussed. However, I think the criticism is a bit nuts really. Yes he shouldnt have hugged the limelight....but it was plenty respectful. In fact I interpreted it as "i cannot beat you".

Dont think he will be the same fighter again...you've got to believe you are the best. Even Sugar Ray Leonard after he got annihilated against Camacho said it was rust and he truly believed in his hearts he could beat RJJ who was p4p number 1 at the time. Joshua has lost the self belief now.

rd350lc wrote: ↑22 Aug 2022, 18:37

stujones wrote: ↑22 Aug 2022, 17:34 Not sure what it was about the belt throwing and he was definitely concussed. However, I think the criticism is a bit nuts really. Yes he shouldnt have hugged the limelight....but it was plenty respectful. In fact I interpreted it as "i cannot beat you".

Dont think he will be the same fighter again...you've got to believe you are the best. Even Sugar Ray Leonard after he got annihilated against Camacho said it was rust and he truly believed in his hearts he could beat RJJ who was p4p number 1 at the time. Joshua has lost the self belief now.

Really ? I thought it was totally disrespectful , did you see the look on Usyk's face when he took the belts from him ?
It was cringe worthy and embarrassing and deserves a proper apology to Usyk .

margaret thatcher wrote: ↑22 Aug 2022, 21:36 i mean, i get a frustrated outburst like yelling f@ck or something, something where you catch yourself a minute later. but dude went on a whole bizarre rant, left the ring, threw out the other dude's belts and stuff. it went on for a while and then he was still having outbursts backstage.

at minimum, it was very unprofessional.......like who does that sh!t?

rd350lc wrote: ↑22 Aug 2022, 18:37

stujones wrote: ↑22 Aug 2022, 17:34 Not sure what it was about the belt throwing and he was definitely concussed. However, I think the criticism is a bit nuts really. Yes he shouldnt have hugged the limelight....but it was plenty respectful. In fact I interpreted it as "i cannot beat you".

Dont think he will be the same fighter again...you've got to believe you are the best. Even Sugar Ray Leonard after he got annihilated against Camacho said it was rust and he truly believed in his hearts he could beat RJJ who was p4p number 1 at the time. Joshua has lost the self belief now.

Really ? I thought it was totally disrespectful , did you see the look on Usyk's face when he took the belts from him ?
It was cringe worthy and embarrassing and deserves a proper apology to Usyk .

Dioufy wrote: ↑23 Aug 2022, 03:14 People need to see how hard he fist bumped Usyk’s team and how he tried to bully them in the ring.

It’s on Twitter. The camera that just follows Joshua post decision.

He’s not even said sorry. He’s a bell. Rep tarnished for me forever.

mickey1975 wrote: ↑23 Aug 2022, 03:46

Dioufy wrote: ↑23 Aug 2022, 03:14 People need to see how hard he fist bumped Usyk’s team and how he tried to bully them in the ring.

It’s on Twitter. The camera that just follows Joshua post decision.

He’s not even said sorry. He’s a bell. Rep tarnished for me forever.

Highfield boxing? Terry's breakdown of events was very good.

ptwbuk wrote: ↑23 Aug 2022, 06:00
The other thing that I thought was eye opening was AJ giving advice to other young aspiring young athletes and to parents saying 'don't allow your kids to get into boxing'. For me this is telling in that someone who has turned his life around and become a multi millionaire feels so damaged by what he has had to go through that he is giving advice to others that it isn't a good career move for physical and mental health.

ptwbuk wrote: ↑23 Aug 2022, 06:00 Something that is never talked about is the mental health of boxers. There were some key things that AJ said in his interview that don't seem to had much media attention but were clear cries for help in my opinion. I didn't see an 18 stone man 'losing his mind' I saw a young man that has dedicated a big part of his life to being a better human and a dedicated athlete feeling sadness. AJ mentioned that 'we don't know what it's like to be a boxer' the key point here that he made is that you are training to do damage, you are training to be someone that can kill a man with your bare hands. At the same time in an instant you then have to flip back to being a calm and smile moments after a battle. Modern day has magnified this I believe in that we live in a more politically correct and restrained world (on the surface) than ever before. The paradox now is bigger than before because more eyes and ears are on people of today let alone athletes.
The other thing that I thought was eye opening was AJ giving advice to other young aspiring young athletes and to parents saying 'don't allow your kids to get into boxing'. For me this is telling in that someone who has turned his life around and become a multi millionaire feels so damaged by what he has had to go through that he is giving advice to others that it isn't a good career move for physical and mental health.
If we lived in a more compassionate world/country I don't think we'd look at the mans wealth, we'd see a young man that was feeling sad in full view of the world and getting behind him rather than mocking him. There is a list of boxers who's mental health suffers and they spiral into drink, drugs, crime amongst other things, all of these things are byproducts of mental illness and often something we use as a coping mechanism.
In my opinion there should me more help for the mental side of fighters during boxers careers as well as after boxers careers to get them through difficult moments. I think in a time where there are so many people saying 'men must talk more' or 'we must be kinder to each other' we all should be looking to be more compassionate rather than revel in someones unhappiness in a really emotional moment for a very young man. Having lots of money doesn't make him less of a human being or feel things less.

Steveh583 wrote: ↑23 Aug 2022, 10:55 The vague label that is ‘mental health’ is now the get out of jail card to excuse bad behaviour for an entire generation. It also undermines the struggle of people living with genuine mental illness. And if you call it out you get labelled ignorant instantly. Who is diagnosing these people with ‘mental health’? Is it suitably qualified professionals? It seems to be the only Illness you can self diagnose and it’s taken as a given. AJ had just lost a huge fight and multiple world titles. You aren’t meant to feel chipper after that. It excuses nothing. It was a tantrum.

Glass Joe wrote: ↑23 Aug 2022, 09:56

Twinkle Toes wrote: ↑23 Aug 2022, 11:17

Steveh583 wrote: ↑23 Aug 2022, 10:55 The vague label that is ‘mental health’ is now the get out of jail card to excuse bad behaviour for an entire generation. It also undermines the struggle of people living with genuine mental illness. And if you call it out you get labelled ignorant instantly. Who is diagnosing these people with ‘mental health’? Is it suitably qualified professionals? It seems to be the only Illness you can self diagnose and it’s taken as a given. AJ had just lost a huge fight and multiple world titles. You aren’t meant to feel chipper after that. It excuses nothing. It was a tantrum.

Fury has never been diagnosed by a professional but he has run with his self diagnosis for the last few years, and people lap it up.

Steveh583 wrote: ↑23 Aug 2022, 11:31

Twinkle Toes wrote: ↑23 Aug 2022, 11:17

Steveh583 wrote: ↑23 Aug 2022, 10:55 The vague label that is ‘mental health’ is now the get out of jail card to excuse bad behaviour for an entire generation. It also undermines the struggle of people living with genuine mental illness. And if you call it out you get labelled ignorant instantly. Who is diagnosing these people with ‘mental health’? Is it suitably qualified professionals? It seems to be the only Illness you can self diagnose and it’s taken as a given. AJ had just lost a huge fight and multiple world titles. You aren’t meant to feel chipper after that. It excuses nothing. It was a tantrum.

Fury has never been diagnosed by a professional but he has run with his self diagnosis for the last few years, and people lap it up.

One of the many. It’s also a method used to absolve ones self of all personal responsibility. Certainly in furys case.

Counter-puncher wrote: ↑23 Aug 2022, 11:46

Steveh583 wrote: ↑23 Aug 2022, 11:31

Twinkle Toes wrote: ↑23 Aug 2022, 11:17


Fury has never been diagnosed by a professional but he has run with his self diagnosis for the last few years, and people lap it up.

One of the many. It’s also a method used to absolve ones self of all personal responsibility. Certainly in furys case.

i think we've possibly had this conversation before, you and I?

i expressed on here some years ago that I was nervous of the way the quasi-universality of 'mental health problems' was being marketed. I was accused by someone who himself was a genuine sufferer, perhaps rightly on some levels that I was insensitive/ call it what you will.

The intervening 5 years or so has seen the problem as I perceive it become worse.

Actually my primary concern was that the narratives that say (EG) 'everybody will suffer mental health problems at some point' or 'anybody at any time can suffer from mental health problems' (I believe both statements to be incorrect, as it happens), create a situation where someone who is 'a little bit sad' over a fundamentally transient short term problem can either in their own head or through the persuasions of others (including doctors, mental health professionals or family and friends, i had an employee's mother perform an on-the spot diagnosis of anxiety for me, once, for example) be convinced that this temporary sadness or disquiet, common to us all in life, is a problem that is both an illness or condition, and quite possibly a permanent, structural one.

I actually didn't really focus- although i made a reference- to those who would 'use' the catch-all of mental health problems as excuse not to: go to work today or for a month or forever/ pay their tax/ be a good husband/ whatever. I guess the cynical side of it seemed so predictable, given the degree of cynicism inherent in human nature, that it was almost taken as read as part of the situation.

it still deeply concerns me that the (to me) excessive focus on mental health problems, and specifically their quasi-universality, will (IMO) produce generations who misconceive their transient sadness as permanent trauma. a bit sad, a bit stressed, will become ever-more assumed to be structural permanent issues.


As a society we are institutionalising it, and I don't know what the answer is without somehow sh1tting on the genuine cases, which I do not wish to do at all.

Steveh583 wrote: ↑23 Aug 2022, 11:53 That is the problem in a nut shell. It also is perpetuated by social media insinuating that everyone should be happy all the time. It’s just not realistic. Life isn’t meant to be easy and we shouldn’t expect it to be (but this is being marketed to a generation who know no better). It’s a thorny issue. I think that the answer may come from developing a strong moral compass
and a sense of personal responsibility. Owning your shortcomings (particularly in AJs case).


I wonder how many genuine cases are denied treatment because of the overwhelming demand that comes from the ability to self diagnose.