BoxRec

Evander wrote: ↑04 Jun 2026, 05:08 Said this years ago
I think we are going back to towns and villages long term
People are just happier in a small community
Get the centre lefties and right in the same town and it'll take off.

Seamus wrote: ↑23 May 2026, 18:59 Always best to look at the before and after pictures of the neighborhoods that experienced "white flight".

Jaguar wrote: ↑04 Jun 2026, 04:04

jujigatame wrote: ↑03 Jun 2026, 20:30

Jaguar wrote: ↑03 Jun 2026, 01:01

We've been here before haven't we? When you just keep repeating the same things and deny what you've said.

* First, your answer does imply that immigration isn't viewed as problematic in the USA

* Second, you have personalised the discussion by describing my views as narrow and talking about my 'personal situation'. I have avoided similar accusations

* Third, it is pretty difficult for people not to have strong feelings when they see their country being wrecked and all that they and their forebears have worked for used and abused, and taken from them and their children

* Fourth, immigration can be a good thing. In small numbers and when those immigrants comprise hard-working people who respect the values, customs and traditions of the country they come to. Mass immigration from the third world brings the opposite. Afghans, Somalis, Congolese, Iraqis, Albanians, Lybians, Syrians are not your friends and will not improve the West

* Fifth, certain immigrant groups are most certainly far more likely to commit crimes than others, especially violent crime and sex crime. I have posted the data on here before. It's freely available if you can be bothered to look. Ditto, unemployment, there are clear patterns among different migrant groups. Our prisons are overflowing with foreign nationals. Ditto social housing

* Sixth, your claims about the economy are just sloppy and based on continued mass population expansion - which, in turn, just creates the demand for more immigration. The fact is, we have mass youth unemployment alongside a shrinking demand for many forms of labour. Which will only continue due to technology. The reality is that the great replacement you seem to champion is not needed. It is in fact a big part of the problem.

* Finally, I never mentioned Trump and I have no idea whether his deportation programme benefits anybody - although I do think that deporting illegal immigrants is the right thing to do as they should, by definition, not be in the country. Leaving that aside, what I have said is that the great majority of the population do not want mass immigration so it should not be imposed upon them. For reasons described above.

Cue your response... yeah, but the population would decline otherwise and we need immigrants to do all these jobs

This is getting very tiresome. Even your first supposition is completely wrong. Nothing I've said implies that immigration "isn't viewed as problematic" in the US. It is viewed as such by many (Stephen Miller most notably) which is why we've voted in a virulently anti-immigrant administration which is engaged in an expensive mass deportation project that will do absolutely nothing to benefit the lives of the average citizen.

I called your view "narrow" because it is. You are presupposing your own worldview when you make unspecific authoritative claims like "quality of life is worsened" or "it's clear as day, the evidence is overwhelming". Sticking to this idea of "replacement" (rather than the creation of new citizens) is similarly narrow. I do not mean this to "personalize" anything. In fact I am trying to give you a wide berth because I primarily know about this issue from an American perspective. For instance, the US does NOT have a youth unemployment problem and studies of local labor markets have shown that immigrant inflows have NOT reduced native employment. Maybe these things are different in the UK, I don't know. I know that immigrants are LESS likely to commit violent crimes in the US, maybe that's not true in the UK either, I don't know. What I do know is that the American political party that wants less immigration has consistently lied by implication in order to get people to believe the opposite.

You're refusing to engage meaningfully with the real problems presented by an aging, declining population. Again, maybe the UK is unique and different in some way, but what I am explaining to you are the actual facts of the matter in the US. If you have a declining, aging population, you either need more immigrants, major tax hikes, or major benefit cuts. This is the reality that is rapidly approaching us. Any politician who says he wants to reduce immigration, keep taxes low, and keep everyone's retirement benefits untouched is a charlatan, full stop.

It certainly is tiresome as you just keep making the same assertions, provide no evidence to support them, and double down on your position. Rinse and repeat.

But it's not just that I don't agree with you, evidence suggests you are wrong. Youth unemployment is a problem in the USA (NEET rates currently around 12% although varies across the country and between ethnic groups - 24% for Black women). Entry level jobs are also shrinking in the US as they are elsewhere, partly due to AI. Google is your friend here if you can be bothered to do even the most superficial research rather than grandstanding.

Unemployment rates in the US vary between different ethnic groups and are lower than average among European and Oceanic migrants but considerably higher among those entering from pooer countries. In America's case that generally means the Hispanic world. It's different in Europe where we have mass immigration from Africa and the Middle East, although unemployment rates are higher among these groups too. Ditto crime, especially the patterns of violent crime I mentioned earlier, particularly against women and girls. It's truly appalling.

Crime patterns in the US are highly racialised, which means that certain sections of the 'indigenous' population (ie black and Hispanic are hugely overrepresented in the crime figures). It's the same for US immigrants where Hispanic immigrants, for example, have far higher offending rates than European immigrants.

Leaving that aside, the notion that my position is narrow is classic projection. Mass immigration is not only unnecessary for the labour market, it is causing housing shortages, environmental damage, strain on health services, increasing class sizes, and filling up prisons.

Criminals are literally being released from prison as they are overflowing with foreign nationals and you can't see how that's damaging people's quality of life? Nor is being unable to get a doctor's appointment, a place in your local school or somewhere to live a problem. Never mind the people trafficking, tropical diseases, drug dealing and modern slavery. All is good.

Finally, you accuse me of failing to engage with the "problems presented by an aging, declining population". On one hand, that does sound rather like you are wanting a great replacement. But also the notion that we just need to keep expanding our population indefinitely is the politics of the madhouse. It's casuing great harm across the western world. It's also unnecessary.

jujigatame wrote: ↑04 Jun 2026, 23:07

Jaguar wrote: ↑04 Jun 2026, 04:04

jujigatame wrote: ↑03 Jun 2026, 20:30

This is getting very tiresome. Even your first supposition is completely wrong. Nothing I've said implies that immigration "isn't viewed as problematic" in the US. It is viewed as such by many (Stephen Miller most notably) which is why we've voted in a virulently anti-immigrant administration which is engaged in an expensive mass deportation project that will do absolutely nothing to benefit the lives of the average citizen.

I called your view "narrow" because it is. You are presupposing your own worldview when you make unspecific authoritative claims like "quality of life is worsened" or "it's clear as day, the evidence is overwhelming". Sticking to this idea of "replacement" (rather than the creation of new citizens) is similarly narrow. I do not mean this to "personalize" anything. In fact I am trying to give you a wide berth because I primarily know about this issue from an American perspective. For instance, the US does NOT have a youth unemployment problem and studies of local labor markets have shown that immigrant inflows have NOT reduced native employment. Maybe these things are different in the UK, I don't know. I know that immigrants are LESS likely to commit violent crimes in the US, maybe that's not true in the UK either, I don't know. What I do know is that the American political party that wants less immigration has consistently lied by implication in order to get people to believe the opposite.

You're refusing to engage meaningfully with the real problems presented by an aging, declining population. Again, maybe the UK is unique and different in some way, but what I am explaining to you are the actual facts of the matter in the US. If you have a declining, aging population, you either need more immigrants, major tax hikes, or major benefit cuts. This is the reality that is rapidly approaching us. Any politician who says he wants to reduce immigration, keep taxes low, and keep everyone's retirement benefits untouched is a charlatan, full stop.

It certainly is tiresome as you just keep making the same assertions, provide no evidence to support them, and double down on your position. Rinse and repeat.

But it's not just that I don't agree with you, evidence suggests you are wrong. Youth unemployment is a problem in the USA (NEET rates currently around 12% although varies across the country and between ethnic groups - 24% for Black women). Entry level jobs are also shrinking in the US as they are elsewhere, partly due to AI. Google is your friend here if you can be bothered to do even the most superficial research rather than grandstanding.

Unemployment rates in the US vary between different ethnic groups and are lower than average among European and Oceanic migrants but considerably higher among those entering from pooer countries. In America's case that generally means the Hispanic world. It's different in Europe where we have mass immigration from Africa and the Middle East, although unemployment rates are higher among these groups too. Ditto crime, especially the patterns of violent crime I mentioned earlier, particularly against women and girls. It's truly appalling.

Crime patterns in the US are highly racialised, which means that certain sections of the 'indigenous' population (ie black and Hispanic are hugely overrepresented in the crime figures). It's the same for US immigrants where Hispanic immigrants, for example, have far higher offending rates than European immigrants.

Leaving that aside, the notion that my position is narrow is classic projection. Mass immigration is not only unnecessary for the labour market, it is causing housing shortages, environmental damage, strain on health services, increasing class sizes, and filling up prisons.

Criminals are literally being released from prison as they are overflowing with foreign nationals and you can't see how that's damaging people's quality of life? Nor is being unable to get a doctor's appointment, a place in your local school or somewhere to live a problem. Never mind the people trafficking, tropical diseases, drug dealing and modern slavery. All is good.

Finally, you accuse me of failing to engage with the "problems presented by an aging, declining population". On one hand, that does sound rather like you are wanting a great replacement. But also the notion that we just need to keep expanding our population indefinitely is the politics of the madhouse. It's casuing great harm across the western world. It's also unnecessary.

I am going to end this here since you are factually all over the place (if the US has a youth employment problem now then it has had one for over 50 years, and your comment on crime rates is just ... odd to say the least) and are consistently misrepresenting my position regarding "mass immigration" and "indefinite population expansion". We are largely talking past each other about local/national issues anyway.

I would simply implore you to actually consider the real economic effects of an aging population, and look to the US as a cautionary tale of what happens when you elect a demagogue promising mass deportations as a way of solving quality of life issues. You may get both more and less than you bargained for.

bmw hector wrote: ↑04 Jun 2026, 09:33

Seamus wrote: ↑23 May 2026, 18:59 Always best to look at the before and after pictures of the neighborhoods that experienced "white flight".

There goes the neighbourhood!

greg wrote: ↑05 Jun 2026, 15:18 I actually see Trump as a symptom as well as a cause of the dystopia. As the saying goes, "рыба гниет с головы" ...

Jaguar wrote: ↑05 Jun 2026, 05:03

jujigatame wrote: ↑04 Jun 2026, 23:07

Jaguar wrote: ↑04 Jun 2026, 04:04

It certainly is tiresome as you just keep making the same assertions, provide no evidence to support them, and double down on your position. Rinse and repeat.

But it's not just that I don't agree with you, evidence suggests you are wrong. Youth unemployment is a problem in the USA (NEET rates currently around 12% although varies across the country and between ethnic groups - 24% for Black women). Entry level jobs are also shrinking in the US as they are elsewhere, partly due to AI. Google is your friend here if you can be bothered to do even the most superficial research rather than grandstanding.

Unemployment rates in the US vary between different ethnic groups and are lower than average among European and Oceanic migrants but considerably higher among those entering from pooer countries. In America's case that generally means the Hispanic world. It's different in Europe where we have mass immigration from Africa and the Middle East, although unemployment rates are higher among these groups too. Ditto crime, especially the patterns of violent crime I mentioned earlier, particularly against women and girls. It's truly appalling.

Crime patterns in the US are highly racialised, which means that certain sections of the 'indigenous' population (ie black and Hispanic are hugely overrepresented in the crime figures). It's the same for US immigrants where Hispanic immigrants, for example, have far higher offending rates than European immigrants.

Leaving that aside, the notion that my position is narrow is classic projection. Mass immigration is not only unnecessary for the labour market, it is causing housing shortages, environmental damage, strain on health services, increasing class sizes, and filling up prisons.

Criminals are literally being released from prison as they are overflowing with foreign nationals and you can't see how that's damaging people's quality of life? Nor is being unable to get a doctor's appointment, a place in your local school or somewhere to live a problem. Never mind the people trafficking, tropical diseases, drug dealing and modern slavery. All is good.

Finally, you accuse me of failing to engage with the "problems presented by an aging, declining population". On one hand, that does sound rather like you are wanting a great replacement. But also the notion that we just need to keep expanding our population indefinitely is the politics of the madhouse. It's casuing great harm across the western world. It's also unnecessary.

I am going to end this here since you are factually all over the place (if the US has a youth employment problem now then it has had one for over 50 years, and your comment on crime rates is just ... odd to say the least) and are consistently misrepresenting my position regarding "mass immigration" and "indefinite population expansion". We are largely talking past each other about local/national issues anyway.

I would simply implore you to actually consider the real economic effects of an aging population, and look to the US as a cautionary tale of what happens when you elect a demagogue promising mass deportations as a way of solving quality of life issues. You may get both more and less than you bargained for.

Again, this is a problem withthe modern left - they just make assertions, provide no evidence themselves and then try to gaslight others by saying their facts are wrong!

You say the US has no youth unemployment problem - I point out that NEET rates in America are currently 12% (almost three times the overall unemployment rate) yet I'm factually all over the place.

You say there is no problem with crime and immigration - I point out that the data suggests that there are big problems with certain immigrant groups. You just deny it.

You accuse me of having a narrow view yet I point out that immigration is about far more than economics. It's about culture, identity, belonging, access to public services, infrastructure and much else. Yet you say I'm the one with the narrow view

You talk about an ageing population as problem (and there's me thinking that long life expectancy represents progress. Silly me, eh) and that this somehow means we need what seems to be a great replacement - I point out that entry level jobs are in fact shrinking and will continue to do so, not least due to new technoloy. You double down and just say the same thing.

You keep mentioning Trump and deportation - I never mentioned Trump but one thing I can tell you is that Trump is a symptom of the dystopia that is 21st Century America, not it's cause. The cause, I would seem, is the mindset you exhibit. At least in part.

Jaguar wrote: ↑05 Jun 2026, 05:03

jujigatame wrote: ↑04 Jun 2026, 23:07

Jaguar wrote: ↑04 Jun 2026, 04:04

It certainly is tiresome as you just keep making the same assertions, provide no evidence to support them, and double down on your position. Rinse and repeat.

But it's not just that I don't agree with you, evidence suggests you are wrong. Youth unemployment is a problem in the USA (NEET rates currently around 12% although varies across the country and between ethnic groups - 24% for Black women). Entry level jobs are also shrinking in the US as they are elsewhere, partly due to AI. Google is your friend here if you can be bothered to do even the most superficial research rather than grandstanding.

Unemployment rates in the US vary between different ethnic groups and are lower than average among European and Oceanic migrants but considerably higher among those entering from pooer countries. In America's case that generally means the Hispanic world. It's different in Europe where we have mass immigration from Africa and the Middle East, although unemployment rates are higher among these groups too. Ditto crime, especially the patterns of violent crime I mentioned earlier, particularly against women and girls. It's truly appalling.

Crime patterns in the US are highly racialised, which means that certain sections of the 'indigenous' population (ie black and Hispanic are hugely overrepresented in the crime figures). It's the same for US immigrants where Hispanic immigrants, for example, have far higher offending rates than European immigrants.

Leaving that aside, the notion that my position is narrow is classic projection. Mass immigration is not only unnecessary for the labour market, it is causing housing shortages, environmental damage, strain on health services, increasing class sizes, and filling up prisons.

Criminals are literally being released from prison as they are overflowing with foreign nationals and you can't see how that's damaging people's quality of life? Nor is being unable to get a doctor's appointment, a place in your local school or somewhere to live a problem. Never mind the people trafficking, tropical diseases, drug dealing and modern slavery. All is good.

Finally, you accuse me of failing to engage with the "problems presented by an aging, declining population". On one hand, that does sound rather like you are wanting a great replacement. But also the notion that we just need to keep expanding our population indefinitely is the politics of the madhouse. It's casuing great harm across the western world. It's also unnecessary.

I am going to end this here since you are factually all over the place (if the US has a youth employment problem now then it has had one for over 50 years, and your comment on crime rates is just ... odd to say the least) and are consistently misrepresenting my position regarding "mass immigration" and "indefinite population expansion". We are largely talking past each other about local/national issues anyway.

I would simply implore you to actually consider the real economic effects of an aging population, and look to the US as a cautionary tale of what happens when you elect a demagogue promising mass deportations as a way of solving quality of life issues. You may get both more and less than you bargained for.

Again, this is a problem withthe modern left - they just make assertions, provide no evidence themselves and then try to gaslight others by saying their facts are wrong!

You say the US has no youth unemployment problem - I point out that NEET rates in America are currently 12% (almost three times the overall unemployment rate) yet I'm factually all over the place.

You say there is no problem with crime and immigration - I point out that the data suggests that there are big problems with certain immigrant groups. You just deny it.

You accuse me of having a narrow view yet I point out that immigration is about far more than economics. It's about culture, identity, belonging, access to public services, infrastructure and much else. Yet you say I'm the one with the narrow view

You talk about an ageing population as problem (and there's me thinking that long life expectancy represents progress. Silly me, eh) and that this somehow means we need what seems to be a great replacement - I point out that entry level jobs are in fact shrinking and will continue to do so, not least due to new technoloy. You double down and just say the same thing.

You keep mentioning Trump and deportation - I never mentioned Trump but one thing I can tell you is that Trump is a symptom of the dystopia that is 21st Century America, not it's cause. The cause, I would seem, is the mindset you exhibit. At least in part.

Boxerbeetle wrote: ↑04 Jun 2026, 07:35

Evander wrote: ↑04 Jun 2026, 05:08 Said this years ago
I think we are going back to towns and villages long term
People are just happier in a small community
Get the centre lefties and right in the same town and it'll take off.

Sod off, I don’t want to live in a crappy little village, give me a city any day. Because I want to see people and I want to see life.

jujigatame wrote: ↑05 Jun 2026, 22:15

Jaguar wrote: ↑05 Jun 2026, 05:03

jujigatame wrote: ↑04 Jun 2026, 23:07

I am going to end this here since you are factually all over the place (if the US has a youth employment problem now then it has had one for over 50 years, and your comment on crime rates is just ... odd to say the least) and are consistently misrepresenting my position regarding "mass immigration" and "indefinite population expansion". We are largely talking past each other about local/national issues anyway.

I would simply implore you to actually consider the real economic effects of an aging population, and look to the US as a cautionary tale of what happens when you elect a demagogue promising mass deportations as a way of solving quality of life issues. You may get both more and less than you bargained for.

Again, this is a problem withthe modern left - they just make assertions, provide no evidence themselves and then try to gaslight others by saying their facts are wrong!

You say the US has no youth unemployment problem - I point out that NEET rates in America are currently 12% (almost three times the overall unemployment rate) yet I'm factually all over the place.

You say there is no problem with crime and immigration - I point out that the data suggests that there are big problems with certain immigrant groups. You just deny it.

You accuse me of having a narrow view yet I point out that immigration is about far more than economics. It's about culture, identity, belonging, access to public services, infrastructure and much else. Yet you say I'm the one with the narrow view

You talk about an ageing population as problem (and there's me thinking that long life expectancy represents progress. Silly me, eh) and that this somehow means we need what seems to be a great replacement - I point out that entry level jobs are in fact shrinking and will continue to do so, not least due to new technoloy. You double down and just say the same thing.

You keep mentioning Trump and deportation - I never mentioned Trump but one thing I can tell you is that Trump is a symptom of the dystopia that is 21st Century America, not it's cause. The cause, I would seem, is the mindset you exhibit. At least in part.

Again, I would REALLY like this to be the end of this conversation because I do not want hostile feelings with anyone here, I will leave it here and you can have the last word.

Actual raw data on youth unemployment in the US:

https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/LNS14024887

So no, just because you think whatever number you found sounds high doesn't mean we have a youth unemployment problem, unless you think we've had one continuously since the early 1970s.

Data on violent crime rates by immigration status:

https://docs.house.gov/meetings/JU/JU01 ... -SD004.pdf

Immigrants have lower violent crime rates even when you isolate illegal immigrants. The reason for this should be obvious, immigrants generally desperately want to stay in the country and doing illegal things puts you in the crosshairs of law enforcement and will get you fast tracked to deportation. There is a single study I know of that used some sort of data from SCAAP that shows immigrants have higher crime rates, but the methodology is absolutely awful and you can find plenty of people online who have torn it asunder. Basically every other study shows the opposite. I also have no idea why you think "european immigrants to the US commit less crime than latin american immigrants" is meaningful or relevant, I would think the geographic and economic reasons for that would be utterly obvious to anyone who thinks about it for more than 5 seconds.

If you think populations are aging and shrinking because of "long life expectancy" you have no understanding of the issue, and your insistence on calling it "replacement" when it quite literally is not (the word "replacement" means adding one thing and removing another, nothing is being removed here) is exhausting.

Bard of Boxrec wrote: ↑06 Jun 2026, 05:34 I’ve seen you guys arguing before about this, and you always focus on this as a blanket issue. Hardly needs saying but The fact is that the US and UK have different nuances when it comes to immigration. Obviously a lot at play but to me the US has always been (or at least, historically) considered the benchmark when it comes to perceived opportunity for migrants and particularly across certain demographics there hasn’t been quite the same dynamic of ‘let’s work hard, build a new life and give our kids the chance to have the upbringing we didn’t’ In the UK

But across the board the patterns are different. Different economies, different welfare states affecting the mitigation of failure, different healthcare provision, different cultures that decide to do it, different job opportunities, different political framing. It’s all different