BoxRec

I rate Ali as clearly in the top two heavyweights ever. The position changes from time to time, but he's always top two. At his peak, he was barely hittable and I don't really see anyone beating him. After the ban, his feet were never the same, but his still managed to beat George Foreman and 2/3 vs Smokin' Joe. An unbelievable achievement.

Do the people who say he's overrated think he's not top two?

JackSprocket wrote: ↑09 Feb 2024, 18:47

Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑09 Feb 2024, 17:34 Of course, a lot of people have a very opinion of him. Does that make him overrated?

Well, basically yes.

A lot of people have a very high opinion of him, so he is overrated?
Overrated is when someone is rated too high. If he really is the best, he is not overrated. He really was the best.
So basically, no.

In my view, to me, Muhammad Ali is #1 rated at heavyweight.

At pound per pound, he is rated, in my view, at #5. Possibly #4.

As long as he's top 5 in any list pound per pound, I am cool with that.

Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑10 Feb 2024, 11:48A lot of people have a very high opinion of him, so he is overrated?
Overrated is when someone is rated too high. If he really is the best, he is not overrated. He really was the best.
So basically, no.

But as a furtherance to that, is he considered the best Pound-For-Pound? And then even if he is - getting away from boxing and taking in other sports... Is he in that conversation too? The answer seems to be yes.
The BBC named him Sportsman of The Century in 1999.

Pound for pound is hard to say. Have never heard anyone rate him number 1 pound for pound. It's funny, fans talk about heavyweights more than the rest of the fighters combined. But when it comes to pound for pound, if anything the heavyweights get the shaft. It's weird.

As for other sports, well that is obviously difficult to do as well. And they when you get into words like "sportsmen" which don't necessarily mean the best, they it gets more complicated. He is certainly the mostly famous athlete of all time.

Legacy doesn't correlate with h2h necessarily. Louis was dominant in his era but nowadays is generally picked to lose to Tyson, Lewis
We are seeing the same thing with Ali where is H2H prowess is steadily declining in mythical matchups.

Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑12 Feb 2024, 21:42Pound for pound is hard to say. Have never heard anyone rate him number 1 pound for pound.

No, me neither come to think of it. It's the usual suspects - Robinson, Charles, Pep, Greb, Armstrong, Leonard, Duran... Ali does always seem to find his way in to most people's top ten though. And usually is the only HW to do so...

Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑12 Feb 2024, 21:42It's funny, fans talk about heavyweights more than the rest of the fighters combined. But when it comes to pound for pound, if anything the heavyweights get the shaft. It's weird.

That's true - it's about perception isn't it? For example when people do out their greatest Heavyweights list - the majority always put Lennox ahead of Holyfield... But when it comes to the P4P list - Holyfield always seems to be ahead because of his Cruiserweight credentials...
And again, brining it to more recent times - Mayweather got the W against Manny, yet i've seen Pacman ahead of him on P4P lists too...

Cojimar 1946 wrote: ↑13 Feb 2024, 00:42We are seeing the same thing with Ali where is H2H prowess is steadily declining in mythical matchups.

Hmmm, not too sure about that one, sir. Most casual boxing fans have Muhammad Ali down as unbeatable and would never consider the possibility of the man losing...

HWs generally speaking aren’t always skilful compared to guys at the lighter weights where speed, fitness and work rate are often needed to be successful. Lots of HWs turn up in bad shape as no weight to make. Ali was not only fast and more skilled compared to the average plodding HW,
he also had the talk, showmanship and confidence to add another layer to him. In his comeback he lost that movement and relied too much on taking punches as he was so durable.