BoxRec

p4p1 wrote:Now I've watched it a few times, Nunes really was phenomenal tonight. She fought extremely smart didn't charge in even when she hurt Ronda and was patient. She was wary of the clinch and immediately defended when Rousey closed the distance. I don't know who challenged the new improved version of her right now. I guess Valentina would be the one after their close fight but I would love to see Cyborg vs Nunes. It would be a war.

Fight IQ is another thing that grows as the sport evolves. It happened with the men, it's happening with the women. Nunes showed a good fight IQ tonight, something that Miesha, Kaufmann, Zigano, Davis, etc did not have.

punchoutsb wrote:Rousey turned me off, as did the UFC PR machine...but I'm legitimately concerned for her safety tonight. I've been pretty vocal that I think she has serious mental issues...more than myself or anyone I've ever had the pleasure of working with in the fight game. I hope she has loved ones close. That was brutal, humiliating, and there really isn't any coming back from that for her.

Ya, I see where you're coming from. She's gone from the top of the world to almost a figure of mockery now. She obviously had issues with the first loss, but this one was even more lopsided and I'm not sure if a mentally fragile individual could see much of a way back from it. She's probably looking at the end of her stardom, which can be very difficult.

I watched it another time and am not feeling the same schadenfreude. I also didnt know about her family history of suicide

punchoutsb wrote:

p4p1 wrote:Now I've watched it a few times, Nunes really was phenomenal tonight. She fought extremely smart didn't charge in even when she hurt Ronda and was patient. She was wary of the clinch and immediately defended when Rousey closed the distance. I don't know who challenged the new improved version of her right now. I guess Valentina would be the one after their close fight but I would love to see Cyborg vs Nunes. It would be a war.

Fight IQ is another thing that grows as the sport evolves. It happened with the men, it's happening with the women. Nunes showed a good fight IQ tonight, something that Miesha, Kaufmann, Zigano, Davis, etc did not have.

Definitely, Miesha was winning the stand up against Ronda but kept shooting double legs that got reversed for some reason. Zingano decided it was a great idea to bull rush Ronda so she could clinch and throw her. The others were just never class fighters and didn't have a chance.

crusader wrote:

punchoutsb wrote:Rousey turned me off, as did the UFC PR machine...but I'm legitimately concerned for her safety tonight. I've been pretty vocal that I think she has serious mental issues...more than myself or anyone I've ever had the pleasure of working with in the fight game. I hope she has loved ones close. That was brutal, humiliating, and there really isn't any coming back from that for her.

Ya, I see where you're coming from. She's gone from the top of the world to almost a figure of mockery now. She obviously had issues with the first loss, but this one was even more lopsided and I'm not sure if a mentally fragile individual could see much of a way back from it. She's probably looking at the end of her stardom, which can be very difficult.

I watched it another time and am not feeling the same schadenfreude. I also didnt know about her family history of suicide

I can't for the life of me imagine how she could manage to keep her stardom. She's not likeable or knowledgeable enough to be an analyst on fox, her acting is just terrible and there's much prettier girls out there who can also act badly for less money. Without the tag of the baddest bitch in the world she has no real hype about her in a movie and her 2 losses were so lopsided and dare i say it embarrassing. I mean I'm sure she could score some commercials or something like that but I truly don't know what else she could do. She's made enough money to live the rest of her life comfortably though and I do suspect it'll be the last we see of her.

That's why I partly blame the UFC PR machine for Ronda's fall. It wasn't enough to be a fantastic female judoka, she had to be the baddest girl in the world, the girl who could beat 50% of the 135 lbs men in the UFC, the girl who could beat Floyd, the girl who could walk down the vegas strip and kick any guys ass, the once in history fighter girl. When that is what you are supposed to be, one loss pretty much destroys you. Guess what two losses do.

Ronda lost her movie deals (including the Roadhouse remake) following her loss to Holly because execs knew she couldn't act and now felt it wasn't worth casting her as an action star since she wasn't invincible. Sad, but true. She was held to a standard no one can maintain, especially not a person with such a fragile psyche.

There may be a few movies, but not at the scope she/her people expected. Her last big chance in my opinion is the WWE; she has expressed interest and so have they. That would be her best fit.

punchoutsb wrote:That's why I partly blame the UFC PR machine for Ronda's fall. It wasn't enough to be a fantastic female judoka, she had to be the baddest girl in the world, the girl who could beat 50% of the 135 lbs men in the UFC, the girl who could beat Floyd, the girl who could walk down the vegas strip and kick any guys ass, the once in history fighter girl. When that is what you are supposed to be, one loss pretty much destroys you. Guess what two losses do.

Ronda lost her movie deals (including the Roadhouse remake) following her loss to Holly because execs knew she couldn't act and now felt it wasn't worth casting her as an action star since she wasn't invincible. Sad, but true. She was held to a standard no one can maintain, especially not a person with such a fragile psyche.

There may be a few movies, but not at the scope she/her people expected. Her last big chance in my opinion is the WWE; she has expressed interest and so have they. That would be her best fit.

Sure the UFC hype machine helped it but she also said enough stupid shit about how good she was to do this to herself as well. The worst one being where she said under the right circumstances she could beat Cain. She didn't just believe her own hype she actively promoted with outlandish statement it to a bigger extent than the UFC did.

Threatenting to beat up celebrities, publicly stating you deserved a role more than an established actress because of your body type etc and other outspoken statements are all ways to alienate Hollywood as well. I think the truth is that she just isn't a smart woman. Just someone who was trained by her world champion mother from before she could walk so grappling became like breathing and was in the right place at the right time because of that.

I know fornicate all about MMA but why was she in there with a fighter like that for her comeback?

Saw the final three fights:

Nunes - Rousey.
What can you say other than Rousey looks fantastic when fighting someone she has a remarkable size advantage over (McMann and Bethe looked a weightclass less than her come fight time). Nunes (and Holm) are her size and are even stronger than her. Therefore, Ronda could not impose her will.

With that said, Nunes has looked very good. Tate commented on how well she uses her range and was confused by Nunes' striking skills.

I normally don't listen to UFC commentary and I normally leave the room during interviews. But, I got to hand it to Amanda. She understands that she is not the typical marketable champion that the UFC wants. Now, she will have to gian fans the old fashion way....by destroying her opponents.

Garbrandt - Cruz.
Wow. Everyone thought Cody was going to brawl, but used great striking skills to out-box Cruz. Truly fun to watch.

After the fight, I looked on Cody's wiki and it seemed a bit far fetched. It stated that he won an Ohio state wrestling championship (by pin) as a freshman and came in second his sophomore year. Then, he didn't compete his last two years of high school, but was still recruited by colleges.

On top of that, it stated that he was 32-1 in amateur boxing.

Is this all true?

Dillashaw - Linker.
Domination. Give him the title shot against his former teammate.


Oh, and I didn't see it, but any chance Hendricks can go up to 185 yet? Hendricks vs. Hendo...please

TheDarkDestroyer wrote:I know eff all about MMA but why was she in there with a fighter like that for her comeback?

Good point

TheDarkDestroyer wrote:I know eff all about MMA but why was she in there with a fighter like that for her comeback?

She probably only wanted to fight for the title and didn't want any other fights. She's only been out for a year and *supposedly* had spent that time fixing her technical flaws. She was until tonight the only woman to defend the title and she has wins over a few of the women who were in the top 10. The fight made sense, she was the number one contender(rightly or wrongly) and the only name in that division.

I don't think anyone forsaw what happened though. Sure I thought that Nunes was going to destroy her standing but I didn't think it would happen in 48 seconds where she landed nearly everything she threw, while Ronda (I don't think) landed a punch.

p4p1 wrote:

TheDarkDestroyer wrote:I know eff all about MMA but why was she in there with a fighter like that for her comeback?

She probably only wanted to fight for the title and didn't want any other fights. She's only been out for a year and *supposedly* had spent that time fixing her technical flaws. She was until tonight the only woman to defend the title and she has wins over a few of the women who were in the top 10. The fight made sense, she was the number one contender(rightly or wrongly) and the only name in that division.

I don't think anyone forsaw what happened though. Sure I thought that Nunes was going to destroy her standing but I didn't think it would happen in 48 seconds where she landed nearly everything she threw, while Ronda (I don't think) landed a punch.

I come at this from a boxing sense, and fighters are rarely put in that hard after a big loss. Especially looked after fighters.

Not blaming the coach, but Edmond does have a horrible training record, fighters go to his gym and come out worse.
Ronda has zero head movement, cannot Parry or block any punches and squares up way to much. These are basics that should have been worked out.

Cody, what a fight. That was probably the best display of boxing I've ever seen in a MMA fight. He's slick.
I think becauseof his power people assume he is just a slugger, but going back to the almeida fight you could even see his movement and timing is superb

The funny thing here is that Holly could be the one to knock off Nunes IF she can keep a fight plan going for an entire fight. She had Tate beat until she got a bit ahead of herself. She knows it....she hasn't done well lately, but she may prove to be one of Amanda's better opponents. If that fight can be made.


I NEVER bought Rousey's hype, I came on here time after time telling everyone that the hysteria needed to stop about her invincible nature. I did think she was good, and kept it in context. If she was as smart as she is "good" at fighting...she would still likely be champion. She has some superlative skills...but her trainer has probably ruined her for the future. Along with some of the comments above..

Here's an observation....I'd appreciate some feedback on.

I'm not meaning to be "genderist" but these days IF you equate general traits to a gender you get bashed. Used to be it was safe and not taken as a slam to say that all men have penises and all women have breasts. These days I guess you are being intolerant by such an assumption? By the way with no disrespect meant to Caucasians, they have far less of a certain pigment in their skin.....I can only hope I have offended no one by saying this. Anyway....with full due respect to all things everyone holds holy please take my observation as NOT meant to be sexist or "ist" of any kind.

Testosterone helps a human...(let's say of either sex, just to be PC) "get over it". Seriously.....it's in the hormones for men to take a lickin' and keep on tickin'. Like a Timex.......How many of you have seen women get mad and stay mad far longer than their human cousins known as men? We are all programmed a bit by our chemistry. Men tend to have more testosterone....good for rage....get mad, get busy, get over it. Estrogen operates in a more "nurturing" mode. And that can mean "nurturing" the thoughts of anger, revenge, defensive nature.

When you study the brain, and it's various sub systems, you sort of begin to capture that their actually are some differences, and if they can not be spoken of we will all stay stupid.

So when disappointment strikes (such as the agony of defeat) or when the child is no longer in the womb, women can "nurture" this pain internally just a wee bit more than their male cousins (of course they are never tested on the latter issue)....where as a guy might have a beer, some porn, go out and get in another fight to even up the "feelers" or any number of other things to distract a bit from longer term depression.

A guy will climax and out....a woman will sustain. Maybe that's a good way to put it.

We all break...we just have some differences in how we break.

Very specific case study.......

Connor loses, he speaks to folks, he says "it's a bitter pill"....you can see he's a bit bent, not broken, and you can see he looks at it like a battle but far from "the war". And although bowed, his basic components of his personality don't change...one senses resolve, and re-commitment in a very public way....and he's back to his old boisterous self. And comes back ready to give it all. And when it got tough in that return, he got tougher. And he went after the dog that bit him. Going back after what/who bested you is a serious pursuit of redemption....to my way of thinking. He was not after a title....I won't go so far as to say he wasn't after Money.....but that's Connor. He seemed to stay true to himself. He got bested, got busy and got back in.

Rousey loses..she aint talkin....she speaks on talk shows of "wondering who I am". She goes recluse and all of her boisterous talking seems to come to an end. She is getting in shape yes...AND living the good life. And honestly, though she took those shots fairly courageously, she seemed to be dropping in to pick up 3 million.....and IF she could recapture the title she might do that as well. But that came across as secondary from what I witnessed. She SHOULD have faced the dragon that was Holly Holm.....that would have been telling herself and us that she was serious about returning. But she was chasing money/title/fame at this point and not her personal redemption, which in my belief she felt was quite likely beyond reach. She was nurturing her pain, and allowing for others to share the "nurturing".

What I'm not doing is judging these actions. I just think we have "tendencies" based on our chemistry that set some (sometimes) predictable outcomes.

Now, everyone is different, this is nowhere near indicative of all men and women....but here are two examples of top competitors and they HAPPEN to hold to what I think could prove to be some common denominators. There can and will be many many different outcomes.....but these case studies are NOT out-liars in my opinion. And this is my point They COULD be considered strong stat tendencies. No more no less. Stay tuned for the next 20 years of UFC and we'll see.

Curious...I know that the betting on Rousey's return was pretty split......how did the betting public do with Connors Return? I'd like to know, for curiosity sake.

Can the more knowledgeable MMA fans explain to me what's going on with the new Women's UFC Featherweight division and Holm is competing for the vacant title without any Cyborg involvement?

Without banging on about PED's and why Justio "has a dick" etc.

I quite like Cyborg and any fight between her a one of the main girls can be built to be huge. The UFC does seem to have made a consistent effort to freeze her out of the sport at any cost. Drain her, wait for her to get old, whatever. MMA seems to be juiced to the gills anyway so what's with all the hate she gets? Loads of these guys fail drug tests all the time.

clopixolacuphase wrote:Can the more knowledgeable MMA fans explain to me what's going on with the new Women's UFC Featherweight division and Holm is competing for the vacant title without any Cyborg involvement?

Without banging on about PED's and why Justio "has a dick" etc.

I quite like Cyborg and any fight between her a one of the main girls can be built to be huge. The UFC does seem to have made a consistent effort to freeze her out of the sport at any cost. Drain her, wait for her to get old, whatever. MMA seems to be juiced to the gills anyway so what's with all the hate she gets? Loads of these guys fail drug tests all the time.

Cyborg was offered the fight and turned it down before her USADA result. Dana obviously does not like Cyborg, but she was offered the shot. I believe her reason for turning it down was that she needed more time.

p4p1 wrote:

punchoutsb wrote:That's why I partly blame the UFC PR machine for Ronda's fall. It wasn't enough to be a fantastic female judoka, she had to be the baddest girl in the world, the girl who could beat 50% of the 135 lbs men in the UFC, the girl who could beat Floyd, the girl who could walk down the vegas strip and kick any guys ass, the once in history fighter girl. When that is what you are supposed to be, one loss pretty much destroys you. Guess what two losses do.

Ronda lost her movie deals (including the Roadhouse remake) following her loss to Holly because execs knew she couldn't act and now felt it wasn't worth casting her as an action star since she wasn't invincible. Sad, but true. She was held to a standard no one can maintain, especially not a person with such a fragile psyche.

There may be a few movies, but not at the scope she/her people expected. Her last big chance in my opinion is the WWE; she has expressed interest and so have they. That would be her best fit.

Sure the UFC hype machine helped it but she also said enough stupid poo about how good she was to do this to herself as well. The worst one being where she said under the right circumstances she could beat Cain. She didn't just believe her own hype she actively promoted with outlandish statement it to a bigger extent than the UFC did.

Threatenting to beat up celebrities, publicly stating you deserved a role more than an established actress because of your body type etc and other outspoken statements are all ways to alienate Hollywood as well. I think the truth is that she just isn't a smart woman. Just someone who was trained by her world champion mother from before she could walk so grappling became like breathing and was in the right place at the right time because of that.

I agree 100% and was not suggesting that none of the blame fell on her. But that hype machine got to her given her mental condition and history more than it should have. I was still very connected to and active in the game when Rousey had her first amateur fight back in 2010. The difference in her between then and now is night and day. She believed her own hype, and then started building on...then the hype started building on her buil up and so on. From a happy rest of her life perspective, retiring and fading away is the best thing that could happen to her.

clopixolacuphase wrote:Can the more knowledgeable MMA fans explain to me what's going on with the new Women's UFC Featherweight division and Holm is competing for the vacant title without any Cyborg involvement?

Without banging on about PED's and why Justio "has a dick" etc.

I quite like Cyborg and any fight between her a one of the main girls can be built to be huge. The UFC does seem to have made a consistent effort to freeze her out of the sport at any cost. Drain her, wait for her to get old, whatever. MMA seems to be juiced to the gills anyway so what's with all the hate she gets? Loads of these guys fail drug tests all the time.

Cyborg turned down a couple fights for the title and said that she needed more time etc. So the UFC moved on with another fight due to a few of their champions not able to be ready before say April. After the fight was announced one of Cyborgs tests was flagged for a potential violation anyway.

Ronda and the UFC led a smear campaign against Cyborg. Nunes showed why they felt the need to do so.

Edit to add. Since full random USADA testing Ronda is 0-2 and has looked slow, and not looked so strong like she used to. Is it just a coincidence? Sure she's met two women who fought smartly that added to that and were for once her size but it's certainly worth mentioning.

I was up so late watching the Rizin Grand Prix, and Cro Cop ended up winning it. Dropped Aliakbari in the first with a hook and then re-dropped and finished him. The Gabi Garcia fight was terrible and hard to watch as she bloodied and destroyed a 49 year old woman who weighed about 60 pounds less than her.

p4p1 wrote:

crusader wrote:

punchoutsb wrote:Rousey turned me off, as did the UFC PR machine...but I'm legitimately concerned for her safety tonight. I've been pretty vocal that I think she has serious mental issues...more than myself or anyone I've ever had the pleasure of working with in the fight game. I hope she has loved ones close. That was brutal, humiliating, and there really isn't any coming back from that for her.

Ya, I see where you're coming from. She's gone from the top of the world to almost a figure of mockery now. She obviously had issues with the first loss, but this one was even more lopsided and I'm not sure if a mentally fragile individual could see much of a way back from it. She's probably looking at the end of her stardom, which can be very difficult.

I watched it another time and am not feeling the same schadenfreude. I also didnt know about her family history of suicide

I can't for the life of me imagine how she could manage to keep her stardom. She's not likeable or knowledgeable enough to be an analyst on fox, her acting is just terrible and there's much prettier girls out there who can also act badly for less money. Without the tag of the baddest bitch in the world she has no real hype about her in a movie and her 2 losses were so lopsided and dare i say it embarrassing. I mean I'm sure she could score some commercials or something like that but I truly don't know what else she could do. She's made enough money to live the rest of her life comfortably though and I do suspect it'll be the last we see of her.

WWE could do something with her.

One thing I'll add after all the hub-bub from last night is that I thought it was pretty crappy that there wasn't any acknowledgement given to Goldie for his final show. He's been calling UFC matches for 20 years and they didn't even give him a thank you. I always liked Goldie, half the time he didn't know what he was talking about but his voice and speaking style is synonymous with the UFC. He'll be missed.

And if they bring in Jim Rome like I'm hearing, I will have a hard time ever having the volume up on a UFC fight again. Jim Rome sucks.

punchoutsb wrote:One thing I'll add after all the hub-bub from last night is that I thought it was pretty crappy that there wasn't any acknowledgement given to Goldie for his final show. He's been calling UFC matches for 20 years and they didn't even give him a thank you. I always liked Goldie, half the time he didn't know what he was talking about but his voice and speaking style is synonymous with the UFC. He'll be missed.

And if they bring in Jim Rome like I'm hearing, I will have a hard time ever having the volume up on a UFC fight again. Jim Rome sucks.

I wholeheartedly agree with you. He is annoying as fvck!

clopixolacuphase wrote:Can the more knowledgeable MMA fans explain to me what's going on with the new Women's UFC Featherweight division and Holm is competing for the vacant title without any Cyborg involvement?

Without banging on about PED's and why Justio "has a dick" etc.

I quite like Cyborg and any fight between her a one of the main girls can be built to be huge. The UFC does seem to have made a consistent effort to freeze her out of the sport at any cost. Drain her, wait for her to get old, whatever. MMA seems to be juiced to the gills anyway so what's with all the hate she gets? Loads of these guys fail drug tests all the time.

I'd like to see her fight Amanda....but/and it's a built in excuse for Amanda if she loses..... Gonna be hard for Cyborg to shake the bad rep at this point.

punchoutsb wrote:One thing I'll add after all the hub-bub from last night is that I thought it was pretty crappy that there wasn't any acknowledgement given to Goldie for his final show. He's been calling UFC matches for 20 years and they didn't even give him a thank you. I always liked Goldie, half the time he didn't know what he was talking about but his voice and speaking style is synonymous with the UFC. He'll be missed.

And if they bring in Jim Rome like I'm hearing, I will have a hard time ever having the volume up on a UFC fight again. Jim Rome sucks.

I'll miss Goldie as well. He said some stupid shit, clearly at times he had no idea what he was talking about. But he was always entertaining and I wI'll miss his commentary.

clopixolacuphase wrote:Can the more knowledgeable MMA fans explain to me what's going on with the new Women's UFC Featherweight division and Holm is competing for the vacant title without any Cyborg involvement?

Without banging on about PED's and why Justio "has a dick" etc.

I quite like Cyborg and any fight between her a one of the main girls can be built to be huge. The UFC does seem to have made a consistent effort to freeze her out of the sport at any cost. Drain her, wait for her to get old, whatever. MMA seems to be juiced to the gills anyway so what's with all the hate she gets? Loads of these guys fail drug tests all the time.

Cyborg did turn down two fights, and now is apparently in hot water again.
I'm guessing she wanted time to cycle off whatever she was taking. Brazilians are dropping like flies with all the testing now

thunderfromdownunder wrote:

clopixolacuphase wrote:Can the more knowledgeable MMA fans explain to me what's going on with the new Women's UFC Featherweight division and Holm is competing for the vacant title without any Cyborg involvement?

Without banging on about PED's and why Justio "has a dick" etc.

I quite like Cyborg and any fight between her a one of the main girls can be built to be huge. The UFC does seem to have made a consistent effort to freeze her out of the sport at any cost. Drain her, wait for her to get old, whatever. MMA seems to be juiced to the gills anyway so what's with all the hate she gets? Loads of these guys fail drug tests all the time.

Cyborg did turn down two fights, and now is apparently in hot water again.
I'm guessing she wanted time to cycle off whatever she was taking. Brazilians are dropping like flies with all the testing now

I think you'll find more Americans have tested positive than Brazilians.
But I do disagree about them dropping like flies because of USADA testing. Aldo and RDA just got caught, RDA looked like a beast earlier even while full USADA testing was going on, Aldo turned in a career best performance against Edgar. Werdum was another who just got caught due to stupid tactics and over confidence, hardly anything to do with USADA. There's no Brazilian at LHW who was ever as good as Jones/Cormier/Rumble, Jacare beat Romero even though Romero tested positive after the fight and has IMO been fucked over by circumstance but still looks as good as he ever has. Maia is still grabbing ahold of people and strangling them like always. So I don't know how you can blame USADA testing for top Brazilians losing when they're not losing because of lack of strength or speed or endurance but just making mistakes with 4oz gloves on.

p4p1 wrote:

thunderfromdownunder wrote:

clopixolacuphase wrote:Can the more knowledgeable MMA fans explain to me what's going on with the new Women's UFC Featherweight division and Holm is competing for the vacant title without any Cyborg involvement?

Without banging on about PED's and why Justio "has a dick" etc.

I quite like Cyborg and any fight between her a one of the main girls can be built to be huge. The UFC does seem to have made a consistent effort to freeze her out of the sport at any cost. Drain her, wait for her to get old, whatever. MMA seems to be juiced to the gills anyway so what's with all the hate she gets? Loads of these guys fail drug tests all the time.

Cyborg did turn down two fights, and now is apparently in hot water again.
I'm guessing she wanted time to cycle off whatever she was taking. Brazilians are dropping like flies with all the testing now

I think you'll find more Americans have tested positive than Brazilians.
But I do disagree about them dropping like flies because of USADA testing. Aldo and RDA just got caught, RDA looked like a beast earlier even while full USADA testing was going on, Aldo turned in a career best performance against Edgar. Werdum was another who just got caught due to stupid tactics and over confidence, hardly anything to do with USADA. There's no Brazilian at LHW who was ever as good as Jones/Cormier/Rumble, Jacare beat Romero even though Romero tested positive after the fight and has IMO been fucked over by circumstance but still looks as good as he ever has. Maia is still grabbing ahold of people and strangling them like always. So I don't know how you can blame USADA testing for top Brazilians losing when they're not losing because of lack of strength or speed or endurance but just making mistakes with 4oz gloves on.

A lot of notable Brazilians have been popped lately though, A.Silva, W.silva, Machida,Belfort, Bigfoot, cyborg ect.
I remember reading about odd behaviour from Aldo prior to the Connor fight to, something about refusing to give a urine test.

Though on the other hand USADA does seem a little to extreme, banging on people's doors at all hours, wanting to know their travel plans and what not. And machidas suspension seemed harsh too, apparently it was something readily available over the counter