It’s a standard WBC contract. It’s not Frank’s fault that there’s likely nothing specific in there - it’s the WBC’s. Anything vague in a contract is massively openly open to interpretation and can cause issue.joshj909 wrote: ↑08 Apr 2022, 05:35 Sounds like Warren is going to try and get out of paying him even though he's underpaying him already. If Frank's lawyer put 'reasonable' in the contract without clarifying what it means in these terms "then maybe he should sue his lawyer"?
Frank's becoming the British Don King. Where's Terry Marsh when you need him.
It’s also not true. Whyte would have got much more than that from the PpV upside. The £300k was the base purse.Frostieballs wrote: ↑08 Apr 2022, 05:41 The line that he’s getting 32 x more his last WBC fight is winding me up.
It’s a pointless comparison. He was coming off a loss and has been in far higher paying fights.
Are you familiar with the standard WBC contract?maverick23 wrote: ↑08 Apr 2022, 05:43Nope but there’s been plenty of talk about it being a standard WBC purse bid contract and some exerts have been read out by Frank.
No but it’s not like Frank could have added in additional/specific things that he wanted from it. It was reported that the initial contract sent over had some tweaks to the standard contract. That was rejected by team Whyte and the standard contract followed.Wee Tommy wrote: ↑08 Apr 2022, 05:43Are you familiar with the standard WBC contract?maverick23 wrote: ↑08 Apr 2022, 05:43Nope but there’s been plenty of talk about it being a standard WBC purse bid contract and some exerts have been read out by Frank.
Same!
𝗙𝗿𝗮𝗻𝗸: “These are good fights!”
𝗦𝗶𝗺𝗼𝗻: “At a price point of £25 it is not a great undercard!”
𝗙𝗿𝗮𝗻𝗸: “I do not agree with you at all! These are even-money fights!”He said he's still working on a fight, but another would need to be dropped.. I think he's saying that to save face..joshj909 wrote: ↑08 Apr 2022, 07:33 Simon Jordan is a fool but I agree with him on every point here.
All I got from Frank is that he's scared Yarde would lose and miss out on a payday. 8 weeks for a fight to decide who he will face in what 6 months? Ridiculous.
Dubois surely could've got paid well as the main event stand in plus fighting a mid/high-level guy over Bryan and would've increased his rep.
It also confirms that Joyce and Dubois aren't the stand ins incase Whyte drops out (I don't think he will but Warren keeps going on about it like he wants it to happen). Realistically the best likely options are Helenius or Sanchez. Anyone else respectable would have to be from PBC which is possible but unlikely or Matchroom which is very unlikely.
Yeah - his points are fair and well measured.joshj909 wrote: ↑08 Apr 2022, 07:33 Simon Jordan is a fool but I agree with him on every point here.
All I got from Frank is that he's scared Yarde would lose and miss out on a payday. 8 weeks for a fight to decide who he will face in what 6 months? Ridiculous.
Dubois surely could've got paid well as the main event stand in plus fighting a mid/high-level guy over Bryan and would've increased his rep.
It also confirms that Joyce and Dubois aren't the stand ins incase Whyte drops out (I don't think he will but Warren keeps going on about it like he wants it to happen). Realistically the best likely options are Helenius or Sanchez. Anyone else respectable would have to be from PBC which is possible but unlikely or Matchroom which is very unlikely.
It contains some clauses regarding promotion of the fight.Wee Tommy wrote: ↑08 Apr 2022, 05:43Are you familiar with the standard WBC contract?maverick23 wrote: ↑08 Apr 2022, 05:43Nope but there’s been plenty of talk about it being a standard WBC purse bid contract and some exerts have been read out by Frank.
I think he wants fights that people are interested in watching. When they announced their co-main a few of us on here had to check Boxrec to see if it was the same guy hammered by Kiko nearly 10 years ago two weights below Cacace. It’s not close to being a 50/50.a force wrote: ↑08 Apr 2022, 08:13 It’s not a good undercard but I don’t get the examples Jordan uses. DeGale was in a mismatch, ok some might have expected it to be more even but it was crap.
The McDonnell & Joshua fights were crap mismatches.
The Mitchell scrap was good.
It seems to me like Jordan wants big names on there rather than good fights. I’d rather watch Cacace & Lowe in even fights than Yarde & Dubois in one sided blow outs.
It definitely could’ve done with a better chief support, something like Joyce, Dubois or Yarde fighting a top 15 opponent but I don’t think it needs much more than that. 4 competitive fights is enough for me. With family, football etc, I’m happy to tune in at no earlier than 7.30ish on a Saturday.
Used to annoy me when you’d get a brilliant scrap like Ryder - Blackwell on at 6pm on a PPV undercard with no one watching & then on the Saturday’s around it you’d have terrible one sided main events on regular Sky.
I suppose it doesn’t help that so many fighters have left him for Kinahan’s money to fight in empty arenas with no one watching yet still earn more.
Probably a different argument but I don’t think there’s enough talent in the UK for 4 promoters to be able to put on good cards. Hearn’s still ok at the minute as he’ll have lots of fighters under contract but you’ve got Warren, Boxxer & Probellum all struggling to put on good cards
Ruthless-RKO wrote: ↑08 Apr 2022, 07:16 DEBATE ‘I don’t agree with you at all’ – allegedly responds to Simon Jordan as he defends Tyson Fury vs Dillian Whyte undercard
allegedly and Simon Jordan shared an interesting debate on talkSPORT on Friday as they discussed the undercard for Tyson Fury vs Dillian Whyte.
On Thursday Jordan criticised the card, prompting Warren to join the White and Jordan show Friday and have his say in response.
“Let me tell you first of all what’s happened. Wembley – we can’t get in there until 6pm. So at 6pm the doors open and fighting starts.
“It’s a good fighting undercard,” Fury’s UK co-promoter hit back.
“The ring has to be cleared by 9:30pm because Tyson’s fight will be on at 10pm, because there’s a curfew there, we can’t be there after 11pm.
“So we’ve got three-and-a-half hours for boxing, we’ve got seven fights on in those three-and-a-half hours.
“I’d have loved to put Anthony Yarde on, but unfortunately I can’t risk him fighting at the moment.
“Joe Smith Jr is fighting Artur Beterbiev for the [WBC, IBF and WBO light-heavyweight] unification fight in about eight weeks’ time.
“He [Yarde] has got the winner, so I don’t want him getting injured. Even if he was on there, I’d have given him a pretty easy job because I don’t want him risking that position – and I’d have probably got some stick over that.
“Daniel Dubois, I’d love him to have been on the undercard, but he’s got the WBA [‘regular’] heavyweight title fight, so he can’t be on there.
“I’d love for him to have got the exposure on the card.
“Joe Joyce has got a broken wrist, I can’t get him on there.
“Hamzah Sheeraz – it’s ramadan, so he can’t box.
“That’s where we are, so what we’ve done is make some real good quality fights that will be good fights to watch.
“Cacace’s the British champion, he’s 19-1, he’s fighting the former world champion who’s 34-1.
“That is a good, competitive fight that will please the crowd.
“Tyson, every time he fights his great friend Isaac Lowe fights on the card. He’s in with a young lad called Nick Ball who’s 14-0.
“Nick Ball, you’re gonna like him, this will be a war. I really do rate Nick Ball, he’s been sparring with quite a few world champions like Josh Warrington and they’ll tell you what a handful he is.
“We’ve also got David Adeleye on there, an up and coming young heavyweight.
“Tommy Fury’s on there, he was supposed to have fought Jake Paul, but he had a rib injury.
“He’s back and he’ll be on there fighting a decent guy from Poland.
“We’ve got the 2018 youth [Olympics] gold medallist, one of our youngsters Karol Itauma. He’s an eight-time national champion.
“We’ve also got Royston Barney-Smith. He’s 18 years old, just turned professional, two-time European gold medallist. Won 36 out of 37 fights representing England.
“And we’ve got young Kurt Walker who’s 1-0. They’re good fights.”
-------------
Asked by Jim White if he can understand some of the criticism, Warren replied: “Yeah I do understand.
“I understand what’s being said, but we’re putting seven fights on the undercard.
“The last time there was a world title fight at Wembley it had four fights on the undercard.
“We only can work with what we’ve got, we’re not magicians and it is a good fighting card.”
At this point, Jordan said: “I made some observations about it yesterday because I wasn’t overwhelmed with it.
“I’m looking at the Froch vs Groves undercard which is at the same stadium with the same restrictions.
“I’m looking at James DeGale, I’m looking at Kevin Mitchell, I’m looking at Jamie McDonnell, I’m looking at Anthony Joshua and I’m saying, ‘Hmm.’
“I get the dynamic of the challenges that you’ve got, but if I’m looking at a card with this kind of feature event for one of the biggest British fights for some time which you’ve paid an enormous amount of money for – I do feel at a price point of £25, it’s not a great undercard.”
Warren responded: “Well I don’t agree with you on that at all obviously Simon.
“They’re fights, and fights are about being entertained and they’re even money fights.
“The Lowe vs Ball fight is for the WBC ‘silver’ featherweight belt which gets them into a high rating and the other fight [Cacace vs Romero] does the same.
“Both those fights are competitive fights.
“These are going to be good fights for the fans to watch, competitive.”
Jordan countered: “I would’ve expected one more marquee fight Frank, that’s my point.”
To which Warren answered: “Well I understand that, I hear what you’re saying and I understand that, and by the way we still are working on another fight.
“And if I do that I’ve gotta take somebody off the card.
“So we are working still, but if you wanna see fights where the guys are gonna stand and trade with each other, those two fights will deliver.”
Jordan then asked: “Is it unfair of me to to say then that all the money has gone to Fury and Whyte, which has left little room for other fights?”
To which Warren conceded: “No, it’s very fair, we spent $41million, plus all the cost of hiring the stadium and so forth.
“The PPV model is really simple, it’s honest TV, people will buy it or they won’t.
“We’re not guaranteeing any money, whatever they pay for, we’re rolling the dice on this.
“We know what we’ve done on the tickets, but that is nowhere near touching what we need to pay them.
“And I hear where Simon’s coming from and I understand it, we’ve put on some great shows over the years and you will be entertained on the night.
“The fact of the matter is they will be good fights and you must bear in mind that we are constricted in what we do.”
𝗙𝗿𝗮𝗻𝗸: “These are good fights!”
𝗦𝗶𝗺𝗼𝗻: “At a price point of £25 it is not a great undercard!”
𝗙𝗿𝗮𝗻𝗸: “I do not agree with you at all! These are even-money fights!”
You think they’re even money fights?jimmystone wrote: ↑08 Apr 2022, 08:36Ruthless-RKO wrote: ↑08 Apr 2022, 07:16 DEBATE ‘I don’t agree with you at all’ – allegedly responds to Simon Jordan as he defends Tyson Fury vs Dillian Whyte undercard
allegedly and Simon Jordan shared an interesting debate on talkSPORT on Friday as they discussed the undercard for Tyson Fury vs Dillian Whyte.
On Thursday Jordan criticised the card, prompting Warren to join the White and Jordan show Friday and have his say in response.
“Let me tell you first of all what’s happened. Wembley – we can’t get in there until 6pm. So at 6pm the doors open and fighting starts.
“It’s a good fighting undercard,” Fury’s UK co-promoter hit back.
“The ring has to be cleared by 9:30pm because Tyson’s fight will be on at 10pm, because there’s a curfew there, we can’t be there after 11pm.
“So we’ve got three-and-a-half hours for boxing, we’ve got seven fights on in those three-and-a-half hours.
“I’d have loved to put Anthony Yarde on, but unfortunately I can’t risk him fighting at the moment.
“Joe Smith Jr is fighting Artur Beterbiev for the [WBC, IBF and WBO light-heavyweight] unification fight in about eight weeks’ time.
“He [Yarde] has got the winner, so I don’t want him getting injured. Even if he was on there, I’d have given him a pretty easy job because I don’t want him risking that position – and I’d have probably got some stick over that.
“Daniel Dubois, I’d love him to have been on the undercard, but he’s got the WBA [‘regular’] heavyweight title fight, so he can’t be on there.
“I’d love for him to have got the exposure on the card.
“Joe Joyce has got a broken wrist, I can’t get him on there.
“Hamzah Sheeraz – it’s ramadan, so he can’t box.
“That’s where we are, so what we’ve done is make some real good quality fights that will be good fights to watch.
“Cacace’s the British champion, he’s 19-1, he’s fighting the former world champion who’s 34-1.
“That is a good, competitive fight that will please the crowd.
“Tyson, every time he fights his great friend Isaac Lowe fights on the card. He’s in with a young lad called Nick Ball who’s 14-0.
“Nick Ball, you’re gonna like him, this will be a war. I really do rate Nick Ball, he’s been sparring with quite a few world champions like Josh Warrington and they’ll tell you what a handful he is.
“We’ve also got David Adeleye on there, an up and coming young heavyweight.
“Tommy Fury’s on there, he was supposed to have fought Jake Paul, but he had a rib injury.
“He’s back and he’ll be on there fighting a decent guy from Poland.
“We’ve got the 2018 youth [Olympics] gold medallist, one of our youngsters Karol Itauma. He’s an eight-time national champion.
“We’ve also got Royston Barney-Smith. He’s 18 years old, just turned professional, two-time European gold medallist. Won 36 out of 37 fights representing England.
“And we’ve got young Kurt Walker who’s 1-0. They’re good fights.”
-------------
Asked by Jim White if he can understand some of the criticism, Warren replied: “Yeah I do understand.
“I understand what’s being said, but we’re putting seven fights on the undercard.
“The last time there was a world title fight at Wembley it had four fights on the undercard.
“We only can work with what we’ve got, we’re not magicians and it is a good fighting card.”
At this point, Jordan said: “I made some observations about it yesterday because I wasn’t overwhelmed with it.
“I’m looking at the Froch vs Groves undercard which is at the same stadium with the same restrictions.
“I’m looking at James DeGale, I’m looking at Kevin Mitchell, I’m looking at Jamie McDonnell, I’m looking at Anthony Joshua and I’m saying, ‘Hmm.’
“I get the dynamic of the challenges that you’ve got, but if I’m looking at a card with this kind of feature event for one of the biggest British fights for some time which you’ve paid an enormous amount of money for – I do feel at a price point of £25, it’s not a great undercard.”
Warren responded: “Well I don’t agree with you on that at all obviously Simon.
“They’re fights, and fights are about being entertained and they’re even money fights.
“The Lowe vs Ball fight is for the WBC ‘silver’ featherweight belt which gets them into a high rating and the other fight [Cacace vs Romero] does the same.
“Both those fights are competitive fights.
“These are going to be good fights for the fans to watch, competitive.”
Jordan countered: “I would’ve expected one more marquee fight Frank, that’s my point.”
To which Warren answered: “Well I understand that, I hear what you’re saying and I understand that, and by the way we still are working on another fight.
“And if I do that I’ve gotta take somebody off the card.
“So we are working still, but if you wanna see fights where the guys are gonna stand and trade with each other, those two fights will deliver.”
Jordan then asked: “Is it unfair of me to to say then that all the money has gone to Fury and Whyte, which has left little room for other fights?”
To which Warren conceded: “No, it’s very fair, we spent $41million, plus all the cost of hiring the stadium and so forth.
“The PPV model is really simple, it’s honest TV, people will buy it or they won’t.
“We’re not guaranteeing any money, whatever they pay for, we’re rolling the dice on this.
“We know what we’ve done on the tickets, but that is nowhere near touching what we need to pay them.
“And I hear where Simon’s coming from and I understand it, we’ve put on some great shows over the years and you will be entertained on the night.
“The fact of the matter is they will be good fights and you must bear in mind that we are constricted in what we do.”
All fair from Frank. He's being transparent IMO. Like I said yesterday, the gate money is a decent start but it's only a start as Frank says himself. They need to do big numbers on PPV for this show to cover its costs. Hope it works out for them all.
polecateddy wrote: ↑08 Apr 2022, 08:47 Seems like a slow building fiasco in the mold of the famous cancelled Bruno/Mercer, Hide/Morrison bill. Has Whyte seen this coming a mile off and just got out of dodge? Is there bankruptcy and people being sued coming too? Whole venture seems like a massive overreach.
I fully understand why the undercard is poor. I just don’t particularly like seeing Frank saying that it’s something that it isn’t.jimmystone wrote: ↑08 Apr 2022, 09:01 I think they are okay matches given the budget for the undercard is next to nothing. Don't forget that Frank overbid by seven million quid. That's a lot of money.