BoxRec

bennie wrote:

scartissue wrote:Continuing my 'greatest contenders' piece. Here are the 175 lbers. Roger, Langford would probably be a force of nature at 175.

Scartissue

LT. HEAVY
Sam Langford (Can) (0)
Harry Greb (USA) (0)
Gene Tunney (USA) (0)
Young Stribling (USA) (1)
Mickey Walker (USA) (2)
Jimmy Bivins (USA) (0)
Lloyd Marshall (USA) (0)
Ezzard Charles (USA) (0)
Jorge Ahumada (Arg) (3)
Avenamar Peralta (Arg) (0)
Richie Kates (USA) (2)
Yaqui Lopez (Mex) (4)
Jesse Burnett (USA) (1)
James Scott (USA) (0)
James Toney (USA) (0)

Now this is more like it for Langford, facing a man in the opposite corner who weighs 175. At this weight he would be awesome in any era. Harry Greb, fought 5 Lt. Heavy champs as well as banging heads (don't believe for a minute that I'm kidding) with Gene Tunney no less than 5 times. They've never been constructed any tougher. As for Tunney, he fought the most of his brilliant career at Lt. Heavy, not moving up until a year prior to his challenge for Dempsey's big man's crown. Young Stribling, the 'King of the Canebrakes', fought 6 Lt. Heavy champs and 3 Heavy kings, but was more at home at 175. Beat Loughran, Rosenbloom and Slattery but lost to Berlanbach for the title. Mickey Walker, fought everyone from Welter to Heavy and didn't give a damn what they weighed. Made two exceptional challenges for the title against Loughran and Rosenbloom. Jimmy Bivins, avoided like the plague in two divisions, yet, beat 5 Lt. Heavy champs including Archie Moore as well as future Heavy champ Ezzard Charles. So let's say no more. Lloyd Marshall, the closest he came to a shot at the title was his bout against Bivins for the 'Duration' title during WWII, in which Bivins had to pick himself off the canvas to stop Marshall in the 13th. Marshall, one of my two division contenders, beat Maxim, Christoforidis and Mills at 175. Ezzard Charles, my personal pick for the greatest Lt. Heavy of all time, beat four 175 lb. champs as well as uncrowned kings Bivins (4 times) and Marshall (twice). Had Archie Moore's number, going 3-0 against the Mongoose. Jorge Ahumada, came out of the Buenos Aires ring wars seeking fame and fortune in NY. Was robbed in his 15 round draw with Foster and went head to head in unsuccessful bids against Conteh and Galindez for the WBC and WBA titles respectively. Along the way up the ladder he beat Galindez, Peralta, Andy Kendall, Bobby Cassidy and Ray anderson. Avenamar Peralta, Gregorio's little brother, had all the talent in the world but showed bad judgement when it came to displaying his wares. Whereas Ahumada chose NY to make his assault on the world stage, Peralta chose Europe, which afforded him a decent living but prevented that final stretch for the title. Nevertheless, he did beat Galindez (3 times), Ahumada, Bossman Jones, TNT Carroll and Ray Anderson. Richie Kates, with wins over Pierre Fourie, Len Hutchins, Jimmy Dupree and Don Fullmer, took on Galindez in two brutal 15 rounders and nearly decapitated Saad Muhammad for the NABF title in '78 before the miracle man got up and took him out in 6. Alvaro (Yaqui) Lopez, a fighting machine who fought competitively in four challenges for the crown against Galindez (twice), Conteh and Saad Muhammad. Also beat Rossman, Burnett (twice), Kendall and Tony Mundine. Jesse Burnett, the 70s version of Archie Moore. This slick old-timer beat Lopez (twice), Mundine (twice), Bossman Jones, Lonnie Bennett and retired Victor Galindez. James Scott, with only the four walls of Rahway State Prison holding him back and the ABC cameras rolling, he entertained audiences with his wins over Mustafa Muhammad, Lopez, Burnett, Kates and Bunny Johnson, until the novelty wore off and the cameras shut down. And finally, James Toney, at 168 (let's just call it Lt. Heavy) he displayed counter punching wizardry against Iran Barkley and proved he could war in the trenches against Prince Charles Williams. Unfortunately, excessive time at the dinner table prevented him from enjoying a lengthy stay at Lt. Heavy.

Honorable mention: Tommy Gibbons, Bobo Olson, Doug Jones, Henry Hank, Mauro Mina, Jimmy Dupree, Len Hutchins.

Love it more! The research effort is phenomenal.

kikibalt wrote:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vjMgS0KaZz0
"Shake A Hand"

Faye Adams

dagosd2000 wrote:

kikibalt wrote:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vjMgS0KaZz0
"Shake A Hand"

Faye Adams

Frank
Thanks for posting Faye Adams. I don't know how you feel,but it's like when my mother threw away my old baseball cards. You don't realize how valuable they were until years later when you don't have them. Faye Adams. What a great voice. I use this phrase a lot. Lost in a dream. Thank goodness for Youtube.

kikibalt wrote:

dagosd2000 wrote:

kikibalt wrote:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vjMgS0KaZz0
"Shake A Hand"

Faye Adams

Frank
Thanks for posting Faye Adams. I don't know how you feel,but it's like when my mother threw away my old baseball cards. You don't realize how valuable they were until years later when you don't have them. Faye Adams. What a great voice. I use this phrase a lot. Lost in a dream. Thank goodness for Youtube.

Rog...Faye adams along with Ruth Brown are two of my top fav from the early 1950's, Shake a Hand is one great rola (record for you honkys... )

Expug wrote:Beautiful post Rick.
I love these memories of Jerry Quarry that you post.
And of course the memories of the others here and their direct experiences with these greats of yesteryear.
I posted awhile back how I was deeply moved by a documentary on Jerrys struggles a couple years before he died. The interviewer asked Jerry if he knew how he got hurt and wound up in his present situation living with his Mom.
Jerry replied "yeah, football".
Man, I will never ever forget that. I felt really sad for Jerry, but reading the great posts from Rick and others about him helps put into light just what a great fighter he was and how he lived life the way he wanted. Did what he loved.
Jerry was a fighters fighter.A credit to the sport.
Thanks to all of you for all these great contributions. I read them daily.

Pretty soon things will lighten up with the Bulls and Hawks and I will be around more.
The Celtics gave the Bulls a trimming last night, and that series could be over soon.
The Hawks are in a tough one with Calgary.All tied at two games apiece.

Rick,
Im doing backstage security for Bruce Springsteen in May.
Eric Clapton in June.
Ive worked a Springsteen show before and his people treated me very well.
Clapton should be good.I like some of his stuff, particularly his old stuff with Cream.
He probably wont play any of that though.

bennie wrote:

scartissue wrote:Just as a bit of a divergence, I saw someone started a thread elsewhere on boxrec naming the great contenders. Here is an opinionated piece I did a couple of years ago on the greatest contenders never to win a title at a particular weight class and I named every weight class. Obviously it was preying on my mind for some time cuz I spent a bit of time at it. I began by giving my rules of engagement on who was eligible. So, just for a bit of fun, here is my opinion of the great contenders. I'll begin with the heavyweights. And just like I mentioned it below, you might agree with me on 10 contenders and scream, "Have Hanley committed" on the other 5. Anyway, let's have some fun and I hope this translates well from a copy & paste.

Scartissue


THE CONTENDERS


Awright, Fightnuts, are we ready for another go? I'm gonna stray a little this month on a pugilistic subject that is a favorite of mine, a somewhat bent subject in this day and age of 'champions only' that requires perhaps, a bent mind to nurture. Implementing this wayward thought came to me while reading an article that has been written for the umpteenth time on the 20 greatest fighters of all time. Now, much as I still enjoy reading about these great fighters, I just feel some of these stories on the same fighters have been done to death. Therefore, in order to set a fire under everyone's stool, I'm gonna rattle the cage a bit and dwell on the great unsung heroes of boxing for a change. Of course we know them as CONTENDERS.
Who are the greatest fighters never to win a world title at a respective weight? Whether avoided due to talent, denied because of race, or simply unfortunate enough to have met an outstanding champion of their era, these fighters should be acknowledged for what they were, with their day having passed. So...a roster of boxing's 'nearly' men begged to be formed. Okay, so we have the 'what' in place, now we examine the 'how'. The criteria I've used in forming my listing is thus:

1) A fighter must have fought competitively at the designated weight.

2) A fighter cannot have held a 'world' title of any kind at the designated weight (Where do I draw the line? I tell ya, I was downright nasty on this one due to the spurious claims to world titles out there. Excluding those nonsensical White, Negro, Interim and any title below WBO in the alphabet categories, I counted every claim and, unfortunately, had to exclude great fighters like Hedgemon Lewis (Welter), Tiger Jack Fox (Lt. Heavy) and Len Harvey (Lt. Heavy) due to New York and European recognition as world champs at their weight class).

3) A champion from another weight class is eligible provided he meets points 1 and 2.

4) Straw, Jr. Fly, Super Fly, Super Bantam, Super Middle and Cruiser weight divisions are unrecognised. Therefore, champions as well as contenders from those weight classes are eligible as contenders at the next higher weight class.
Awright, now that we know where we're going with this, I should add that this chronological listing (not a ranking) of my top 15 is based on opinion and not what a fighter may have achieved throughout a lengthy career. In other words, I've simply rated whom I feel was the better fighter.
Now, I catch a lot of E-mails graced with both praise and criticism from you lot out there and I will admit you're a knowledgable bunch. So, before you Fightnuts out there scroll down, perhaps you should first form your own listing. My guess is you'll agree with me on ten of my fifteen and scream "Have Hanley committed!" on the other five. Ahh, but isn't the argument what it's all about? So, without further ado, let's have a little fun butting heads on this backbone of boxing.

(Note: the fighter's name is followed by birthplace and number of title shots received at the weight)


HEAVY
Sam Langford (Can) (0)
Joe Jeanette (USA) (0)
Harry Wills (USA) (0)
Tommy Farr (Wales) (1)
Jimmy Bivins (USA) (0)
Elmer Ray (USA) (0)
Archie Moore (USA) (2)
Zora Folley (USA) (1)
Eddie Machen (USA) (1)
Oscar Bonavena (Arg) (1)
Jerry Quarry (USA) (2)
Ron Lyle (USA) (1)
Earnie Shavers (USA) (2)
Jimmy Young (USA) (1)
Gerry Cooney (USA) (1)

Believe it or not, Sam Langford, probably a staple on everyone’s list, barely made mine. With apologies to some of you out there that believe I've committed boxing sacrilege, I just have a hard time placing someone on my heavyweight list who weighed 175 and was the same height as Marco Antonio Barrera. I had a much easier time ranking his contemporaries, Jeanette and Wills, who, admittedly, he stayed with on an even keel. But Jeanette at 5'10" and Wills at 6'4" had a much better chance of staying with the Heavys of the ages after the days of brawling gave way to technique. Tommy Farr earned his berth by way of a great chin, immaculate skills and by giving Louis, Baer and Braddock all they could handle. Jimmy Bivins, better as a Lt. Heavy, yet, engaged Louis, Walcott and a Heavyweight Charles in some real toe to toes. Also was Interim champ during Louis' war years. Elmer Ray, top dog in the 40's, beat both Charles and Walcott during his heyday. Archie Moore, old as friggin' Methusaleh and a Lt. Heavy to boot, yet beat Nino Valdez (twice), Bob Baker, Clarence Henry and took Marciano to a life and death struggle in '55. Zora Folley, victim of his ties to the IBC, entered the top ten in '56 and stayed there until receiving his only title opportunity in '67 at the age of 34. Eddie Machen, fought five Heavy champs and had all the tools, but always missed that big one. Oscar Bonavena, a snarling bull of a fighter who gave a peak Ali and Frazier some nasty lumps while taking the same in return willingly. Jerry Quarry, a 60s-70s version of Jack Sharkey. A counter-punching master whose head-strong character got him into unnecessary punch-outs. Ron Lyle, on his night he was something. Wins over Ellis, Bonavena, Shavers, Bugner and a memorable brawl with Foreman put him on the Heavy map. Earnie Shavers, if you could get him into the later rounds you might have a chance, but those first five rounds were an incredible gauntlet to run. One of the best one punch bangers ever, just ask Norton, Ellis and Young. Speaking of Jimmy Young, they didn't come any slicker. Only lacking a punch, Young's skills were at their peak when he was going at it with Ali, Foreman, Norton and Lyle (twice). Gerry Cooney, the much maligned Cooney I might add, suffered only from bad management. His talents needed a forum but he fought only sporadically. Although his power was evident (Norton, Lyle), his skills were underrated. His best night was when he ripped Jimmy Young's face to shreds with his left jab alone and then slipped into a once a year fight schedule. Talent never realized.

Honorable mention: Luther McCarty, Sam McVey, George Godfrey, Larry Gains, Roland LaStarza, George Chuvalo, Cleveland Williams, Jeff Merritt, David Tua.

Love it!

dagosd2000 wrote:SUCCESS

Amanda's dancing up in Long Beach today. Big Flamenco festival. Dancers from all over the region. Her school has been rehearsing their number for 2 months. Now I've been taking Amanda to her dance classes for 9 years. Go to Spain every summer. Seville,the heart of the Flamenco world. I'm telling ya' this routine is the best I've seen for amateurs.

Here's the point. Everyone involved right now is nervous. The teacher. The dancers. The parents. But I don't see any nerves with Amanda. And she's the youngest performer! She's contained and flowing with it. Knows her steps. Knows them and executes them better than the other dancers as well.

While the other dancers are saying"I'm doing the best I can" or "I don't get it",Amanda is finding a way to accomplish it without making a fuss. We've talked about what it takes to succeed.

This success thing has its drawbacks with some people who feel uncomfortable with it. You see it with fighters a lot. Ruben Olivares reminded me of a good case to make my point. He went through everyone on his way up. Then when he won the championship,his performances became erratic. Not enough training. Taking opponents a little too lightly.Staying out too late with the Mariachis. He began to lose when he was still in his prime. Why? I'll just theorize a little. Maybe there was a part of him that couldn't handle success.

I know a philosophical approach to life in Mexico is that eventually the roof is going to collapse one day. Why worry about it? Rockin' Ruben had done what only a handfull could do in the ring. He was a champion. Maybe he thought it wouldn't get much better after that. Again,just postulating.

Amanda right now is cruising along. The rest of the group sees her with her going with the flow attitude. They draw stregnth from her. We've talked about this.

Another philosophical view from our south of the border neighbor. Worrying is a dead end proposition. Maybe it takes the competitiveness out of it,but then again I've never seen many Mexicans on Prozac.

Rick Farris wrote:"TYSON"

Hey guys, A movie has opened here in the Los Angeles area, a first rate documentary on the life of Mike Tyson, titled "TYSON". This isn't a typical low budget documentary, but one directed by a respected big budget feature film director, James Toback. Steve Harpst, one of my fellow directors at the WBHOF saw a private screening of the film Tuesday night and said it was a great. I work with Steve and his amateur boxers three nights a week at his Burbank Boxing Club, and I'm going to take a couple of the older boxers to see the film this afternoon in Hollywood, where it's playing at the Arclight Theatre. I'll report later on the movie.

-Rick Farris

Rick Farris wrote:

dagosd2000 wrote:SUCCESS

Amanda's dancing up in Long Beach today. Big Flamenco festival. Dancers from all over the region. Her school has been rehearsing their number for 2 months. Now I've been taking Amanda to her dance classes for 9 years. Go to Spain every summer. Seville,the heart of the Flamenco world. I'm telling ya' this routine is the best I've seen for amateurs.

Here's the point. Everyone involved right now is nervous. The teacher. The dancers. The parents. But I don't see any nerves with Amanda. And she's the youngest performer! She's contained and flowing with it. Knows her steps. Knows them and executes them better than the other dancers as well.

While the other dancers are saying"I'm doing the best I can" or "I don't get it",Amanda is finding a way to accomplish it without making a fuss. We've talked about what it takes to succeed.

This success thing has its drawbacks with some people who feel uncomfortable with it. You see it with fighters a lot. Ruben Olivares reminded me of a good case to make my point. He went through everyone on his way up. Then when he won the championship,his performances became erratic. Not enough training. Taking opponents a little too lightly.Staying out too late with the Mariachis. He began to lose when he was still in his prime. Why? I'll just theorize a little. Maybe there was a part of him that couldn't handle success.

I know a philosophical approach to life in Mexico is that eventually the roof is going to collapse one day. Why worry about it? Rockin' Ruben had done what only a handfull could do in the ring. He was a champion. Maybe he thought it wouldn't get much better after that. Again,just postulating.

Amanda right now is cruising along. The rest of the group sees her with her going with the flow attitude. They draw stregnth from her. We've talked about this.

Another philosophical view from our south of the border neighbor. Worrying is a dead end proposition. Maybe it takes the competitiveness out of it,but then again I've never seen many Mexicans on Prozac.

Great post, Roger. What you said about the philosophical approach to life in Mexico really says a lot regarding the attitudes of of great Mexican boxers. I see that as a strength. Good luck to your Amanda today. She is a beautiful young lady whose pictures reflect confidence in the eyes. She reminds me of a Flamenco version of the Baltazar brothers, back when they were junior fighters. It's in the genes, and it comes from the great support of the family. One of the things that impresses me most about you is your love and support of your grand kids. If it were not for the support of my grandfather, I would have never been able to become a boxer, and who knows what path I would have taken. I had a wild side, boxing kept me in line. Give her a hug from Monica and I, although she has not met us, we wish her the best!

-Rick

dagosd2000 wrote:

Amanda winning First Prize(Adult Category) at The Pena Andalucia Festival in Long Beach with her instructor Rocio Carrera and her novio Oscar Aragon.



Amanda getting ready for combat.




Amanda living Flamenco. Ole Her teacher Rocio giving her encouragement(backround)

bennie wrote:


We got ourselves a live one. Carl "The Cobra" shows his strength and stamina in the home of boxing.

Rick Farris wrote:

bennie wrote:


We got ourselves a live one. Carl "The Cobra" shows his strength and stamina in the home of boxing.

Bennie . . . I was happy to see Carl Froch flatten Jermaine Taylor in the final seconds of the fight, and coming off an early knockdown revealed his true fighting heart. I've never been a fan of Taylor because of his sloppy, amateurish style, however I credit both for putting on a great fight. If only the Cobra would learn to hold his left hand higher, he'd have a much longer career and even greater success. His hitting the canvas in the second was unnecessary. One thing for certain, nobody can question his heart or his punch. Dan and I were on the phone more than once during the fight, "Did you see that?", was usually the first words from our mouths. Lots of action, we never knew what might happen next. Next week we have Ricky H. vs the Pac Man in a bout that has the potential to be the best of the year. England is right in the mix when it comes to the best of the day, and this puts a smile on my face.

-Rick Farris