BoxRec

Los Angeles Times

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/.a/6a00 ... c6c970b-pi

Art Aragon/Joe Miceli/Don Jordan

Sugar Ray Robinson/Carmen Basilio

Here's another trivia: What do HOFers Benny Leonard, Ted "kid" Lewis, Henry Armstrong, Billy Conn, Manuel Ortiz and Alexis Arguello all have in common?

Chuck Johnston . . .

Thought you might like to know that the great book written by yourself and Tracy Callis was a topic of conversation between Don Fraser and myself yesterday. We were talking about books, and Don asked, "Have you seen the one that Chuck Johnston wrote?"

I answered, "You bet I have. Chuck was one my guests at last years WBHOF banquet. Ironic you mention this, as Vince Delgado recently asked me the same question."

Once again I must say, that book is really making the rounds and has found a home in my personal boxing library. Great job, C.J.


-Rick Farris

Rick Farris wrote:Chuck Johnston . . .

Thought you might like to know that the great book written by yourself and Tracy Callis was a topic of conversation between Don Fraser and myself yesterday. We were talking about books, and Don asked, "Have you seen the one that Chuck Johnston wrote?"

I answered, "You bet I have. Chuck was one my guests at last years WBHOF banquet. Ironic you mention this, as Vince Delgado recently asked me the same question."

Once again I must say, that book is really making the rounds and has found a home in my personal boxing library. Great job, C.J.


-Rick Farris

Thats a musts-have book, and I'm not saying this because the Baltazar are on page 139 DD

The middleweights are next in the contenders series. Who would you guys have added or left out?

Scartissue

MIDDLE
Len Harvey (Eng) (1)
Jock McAvoy (Eng) (0)
Steve Belloise (USA) (2)
Archie Moore (USA) (0)
Georgie Abrams (USA) (1)
Holman Williams (USA) (0)
Charley Burley (USA) (0)
Jack Chase (USA) (0)
Lloyd Marshall (USA) (0)
Spider Webb (USA) (1)
Joey Archer (USA) (2)
Luis Rodriguez (Cuba) (1)
Bennie Briscoe (USA) (3)
Ayub Kalule (Uganda) (0)
Herol Graham (Eng) (2)

Len Harvey, a pro at 12 years of age enjoyed his biggest success at Lt. Heavy but had an outstanding run as a Middleweight. Losing to Marcel Thil for the world title, a man he had already beaten, Harvey also went head to head with Vince Dundee, Ben Jeby, Dave Shade, Jock McAvoy and Jack Hood. McAvoy, himself an outstanding Middle cum Lt. Heavy, killed any chances of a title shot for himself by blowing away newly crowned NBA Middle king Babe Risko in one round in a non-title affair. Steve Belloise, one hard banger out of NY, lost a couple of squeakers to Ken Overlin for the title but beat among others, Ceferino Garcia, Anton Christoforidis, Al Hostak, Georgie Abrams and Robert Villemain. Archie Moore, thought of only as a Lt. Heavy/Heavy, had a very competitive run at 160, holding a spot in the top ten from '40-'43 and besting Lloyd Marshall, Jack Chase and Nate Bolden along the way. Georgie Abrams, not a big banger but sooooo talented. Gave Zale a run for it for the vacant world title and beat Billy Soose (3 times), Lou Broulliard, Teddy Yarosz, Steve Belloise and drew with Charley Burley. Holman Williams, one of the many great black fighters of the '40s avoided by every champ unless it was scheduled for 10. In a stellar career, Williams beat Kid Tunero, Charley Burley, Lloyd Marshall, Jack Chase and Archie Moore. Charley Burley, what can be written about Burley that hasn't already been written? Had Archie Moore down twice and beat him over ten. Also beat Billy Soose, Jack Chase and Holman Williams. One might say the frozen title during the war years was his undoing, but even a certain Mr. Robinson wasn't going near this guy. Jack Chase, the list seems endless regarding these largely avoided fighters. Chase had to content himself with the Calif. State title during the 40s and the fact that he held wins over Moore, Marshall, Eddie Booker and 'Kid' Matthews. Lloyd Marshall, his record is a who's who of world class Lt. Heavies and Middles. At 160 he KO'd Ezzard Charles and beat Burley, Williams, Chase, LaMotta and Overlin. Ellsworth (Spider) Webb was one rough customer who made a habit of interrupting ambitions. Beat future champs Tiger, Giardello and Downes while giving Gene Fullmer two rough goes of it, the latter bout for the title. Joey Archer, 'couldn't break an egg' they used to say, but was so slick. Beat Tiger, Moyer, Hurricane Carter and retired Sugar Ray over 10 rounds. He then lost two controversial decisions to Emile Griffith with the title on the line. Not bad for no punch. Luis Rodriguez, the former Welter king went through the Middles of his day like a dose of salts. Battled Benvenuti to the wire for the 160 lb. title until running into a one-puncher in the 11th. Beat Carter (twice), Briscoe (twice), Moyer, Georgie Benton, Vicente Rondon and Tony Mundine. Bennie Briscoe, a man whose name is synonomous with the term 'Philadelphia fighter', gave Monzon and Valdes a murderous go of it in non-title and title bouts. Also beat Mustafa Muhammad, Rondon, Benton, Mundine and Cyclone Hart. Ayub Kalule, a Jr. Middleweight in a Middleweight's body, thanks to his Promoter who ordered him to boil down to 154. Regardless, at his natural weight of 160 he was formidable in winning Commonwealth and Euro titles, and in beating Sumbu Kalambay, Lindell Holmes, Sugar Ray Seales and Kevin Finnegan. Lastly, Herol Graham, damn near untouchable in his prime. Had Julian Jackson all but out for the vacant title until he pulled a Billy Conn in the 4th. Held wins over Kalule, Holmes, Pazienza and Mark Kaylor.

Honorable mention: Oh man, where do I begin, where do I end? There were so many who could have made this list I wish I could have stretched it to 25. Nevertheless, Dave Shade, Ace Hudkins, Kid Tunero, Jose Basora, Nate Bolden, Eddie Booker, Dave Sands, Holley Mims, Hurricane Carter, Georgie Benton, Cyclone Hart, Tony Mundine, Ronnie Harris, Mustafa Hamsho.

scartissue wrote:The middleweights are next in the contenders series. Who would you guys have added or left out?

Scartissue

MIDDLE
Len Harvey (Eng) (1)
Jock McAvoy (Eng) (0)
Steve Belloise (USA) (2)
Archie Moore (USA) (0)
Georgie Abrams (USA) (1)
Holman Williams (USA) (0)
Charley Burley (USA) (0)
Jack Chase (USA) (0)
Lloyd Marshall (USA) (0)
Spider Webb (USA) (1)
Joey Archer (USA) (2)
Luis Rodriguez (Cuba) (1)
Bennie Briscoe (USA) (3)
Ayub Kalule (Uganda) (0)
Herol Graham (Eng) (2)

Len Harvey, a pro at 12 years of age enjoyed his biggest success at Lt. Heavy but had an outstanding run as a Middleweight. Losing to Marcel Thil for the world title, a man he had already beaten, Harvey also went head to head with Vince Dundee, Ben Jeby, Dave Shade, Jock McAvoy and Jack Hood. McAvoy, himself an outstanding Middle cum Lt. Heavy, killed any chances of a title shot for himself by blowing away newly crowned NBA Middle king Babe Risko in one round in a non-title affair. Steve Belloise, one hard banger out of NY, lost a couple of squeakers to Ken Overlin for the title but beat among others, Ceferino Garcia, Anton Christoforidis, Al Hostak, Georgie Abrams and Robert Villemain. Archie Moore, thought of only as a Lt. Heavy/Heavy, had a very competitive run at 160, holding a spot in the top ten from '40-'43 and besting Lloyd Marshall, Jack Chase and Nate Bolden along the way. Georgie Abrams, not a big banger but sooooo talented. Gave Zale a run for it for the vacant world title and beat Billy Soose (3 times), Lou Broulliard, Teddy Yarosz, Steve Belloise and drew with Charley Burley. Holman Williams, one of the many great black fighters of the '40s avoided by every champ unless it was scheduled for 10. In a stellar career, Williams beat Kid Tunero, Charley Burley, Lloyd Marshall, Jack Chase and Archie Moore. Charley Burley, what can be written about Burley that hasn't already been written? Had Archie Moore down twice and beat him over ten. Also beat Billy Soose, Jack Chase and Holman Williams. One might say the frozen title during the war years was his undoing, but even a certain Mr. Robinson wasn't going near this guy. Jack Chase, the list seems endless regarding these largely avoided fighters. Chase had to content himself with the Calif. State title during the 40s and the fact that he held wins over Moore, Marshall, Eddie Booker and 'Kid' Matthews. Lloyd Marshall, his record is a who's who of world class Lt. Heavies and Middles. At 160 he KO'd Ezzard Charles and beat Burley, Williams, Chase, LaMotta and Overlin. Ellsworth (Spider) Webb was one rough customer who made a habit of interrupting ambitions. Beat future champs Tiger, Giardello and Downes while giving Gene Fullmer two rough goes of it, the latter bout for the title. Joey Archer, 'couldn't break an egg' they used to say, but was so slick. Beat Tiger, Moyer, Hurricane Carter and retired Sugar Ray over 10 rounds. He then lost two controversial decisions to Emile Griffith with the title on the line. Not bad for no punch. Luis Rodriguez, the former Welter king went through the Middles of his day like a dose of salts. Battled Benvenuti to the wire for the 160 lb. title until running into a one-puncher in the 11th. Beat Carter (twice), Briscoe (twice), Moyer, Georgie Benton, Vicente Rondon and Tony Mundine. Bennie Briscoe, a man whose name is synonomous with the term 'Philadelphia fighter', gave Monzon and Valdes a murderous go of it in non-title and title bouts. Also beat Mustafa Muhammad, Rondon, Benton, Mundine and Cyclone Hart. Ayub Kalule, a Jr. Middleweight in a Middleweight's body, thanks to his Promoter who ordered him to boil down to 154. Regardless, at his natural weight of 160 he was formidable in winning Commonwealth and Euro titles, and in beating Sumbu Kalambay, Lindell Holmes, Sugar Ray Seales and Kevin Finnegan. Lastly, Herol Graham, damn near untouchable in his prime. Had Julian Jackson all but out for the vacant title until he pulled a Billy Conn in the 4th. Held wins over Kalule, Holmes, Pazienza and Mark Kaylor.

Honorable mention: Oh man, where do I begin, where do I end? There were so many who could have made this list I wish I could have stretched it to 25. Nevertheless, Dave Shade, Ace Hudkins, Kid Tunero, Jose Basora, Nate Bolden, Eddie Booker, Dave Sands, Holley Mims, Hurricane Carter, Georgie Benton, Cyclone Hart, Tony Mundine, Ronnie Harris, Mustafa Hamsho.

Great work, Dan.

Harold Green I would put some where on your list, Dan.

Harold Green

Country USA
Global Id 10248
Birthplace Brooklyn, NY
Division Middleweight
Born 1924-10-24
Died 2001-09-00
Stance Orthodox
Height 175cm


Career Record © www.boxrec.com

Date Opponent Location Result
1953-02-02 Joey Giardello Brooklyn, USA L UD 10
1952-12-08 Pierre Langlois Brooklyn, USA L SD 10
1951-06-20 Jose Alberto Diaz Miami Beach, USA W PTS 10
1951-05-29 Jose Alberto Diaz Miami Beach, USA W MD 10
1951-02-02 Ernie Durando New York, USA W UD 10
1950-12-27 Chico Pacheco Miami, USA W KO 10
1950-12-04 Ernie Durando Cleveland, USA W PTS 10
1950-10-26 Joey Giardello Brooklyn, USA W RTD 6
1950-08-25 Danny Ruggerio Wilmington, USA W PTS 10
1950-08-04 Bobby James Long Beach, USA W PTS 8
1950-07-28 Tony Masciarelli Long Beach, USA W UD 8
1950-01-06 Paddy Young New York, USA L KO 1
1949-12-16 Rocky Castellani Scranton, USA L PTS 10
1949-10-27 Danny Ruggerio Brooklyn, USA W TKO 6
1949-08-08 Tony Baldoni Wilkes-Barre, USA W TKO 5
1949-04-16 Tony Masciarelli Brooklyn, USA D PTS 8
1949-03-22 Oswaldo Silva Brooklyn, USA W SD 8
1948-08-31 Richie Dallas Brooklyn, USA W PTS 8
1948-05-28 Rocky Castellani New York, USA L SD 10
1948-03-26 Smuggy Hursey New York, USA W PTS 8
1948-03-15 Art Tatta Brooklyn, USA W KO 4
1948-03-01 Chet Vinci Brooklyn, USA W TKO 6
1948-02-17 Joey Falco Brooklyn, USA W KO 2
1947-11-18 Nick Kashuba Brooklyn, USA W PTS 8
1947-11-11 Vince LaSalva Brooklyn, USA W TKO 1
1947-10-28 Victor Amato Brooklyn, USA W TKO 4
1947-06-19 Herbie Kronowitz Brooklyn, USA L UD 10
1947-03-28 Marcel Cerdan New York, USA L TKO 2
1947-01-31 Pete Mead New York, USA W UD 10
1946-11-26 Joe Bennett Brooklyn, USA W UD 8
1946-10-29 Jerry Fiorello Brooklyn, USA W PTS 8
1946-09-09 Sammy Secreet Cleveland, USA W SD 12
1946-05-13 Sammy Secreet Cleveland, USA W UD 10
1946-04-08 Sammy Secreet Cleveland, USA L SD 10
1945-09-28 Rocky Graziano New York, USA L KO 3
1945-06-22 Fritzie Zivic New York, USA W UD 10
1945-05-18 Frankie Terry New York, USA W UD 10
1945-04-07 Larney Moore Brooklyn, USA W KO 4
1945-02-09 Morris Reif New York, USA W UD 10
1944-12-22 Rocky Graziano New York, USA W MD 10
1944-11-25 Johnny Melcher Brooklyn, USA W KO 4
1944-11-03 Rocky Graziano New York, USA W UD 10
1944-10-28 Jerry Fiorello Brooklyn, USA W PTS 8
1944-10-09 Henry Jordan Newark, USA W PTS 8
1944-09-25 Ernest (Cat) Robinson Brooklyn, USA W PTS 8
1944-09-12 Oscar Suggs Brooklyn, USA W PTS 8
1944-08-22 Al Evans Brooklyn, USA W TKO 4
1944-08-01 Jerry Fiorello Brooklyn, USA W PTS 8
1944-07-18 Leo Dulmaine Brooklyn, USA W PTS 10
1944-07-10 Buster Tyler Newark, USA W KO 6
1944-06-27 Phil Enzenga Brooklyn, USA W TKO 1
1944-06-13 George 'Red' Doty Woodhaven, Queens, USA W KO 1
1944-05-29 Tony Riccio Newark, USA D PTS 8
1944-04-17 Joe Matone Newark, USA W PTS 8
1944-03-20 Danny Martin Newark, USA W PTS 8
1944-02-29 Gaspare Abruzzo Brooklyn, USA W KO 3
1944-02-14 Pete Bayrun Newark, USA W KO 1
1943-01-26 Bobby Ruffin Brooklyn, USA L PTS 8
1942-12-29 Frankie Cardinal Brooklyn, USA W PTS 8
1942-12-11 Johnny Greco New York, USA L TKO 1
1942-11-24 George Harper Brooklyn, USA W PTS 8
1942-11-20 Pete Kennedy New York, USA D PTS 6
1942-11-10 Frankie Cardinal White Plains, USA W PTS 8
1942-10-19 Frankie Cardinal New York, USA W TKO 4
1942-10-13 Jeff Holloway Brooklyn, USA W PTS 6
1942-10-03 Alex Doyle Brooklyn, USA W PTS 6
1942-09-29 Tommy Ciarlo White Plains, USA W PTS 6
1942-09-15 Tommy Ciarlo White Plains, USA L PTS 6
1942-09-08 Pete Manchio White Plains, USA W UD 6
1942-08-18 Joe Governale Brooklyn, USA W TKO 6
1942-08-01 Alex Doyle Long Island City, Queens, W PTS 6
1942-07-29 Julian Malavez Brooklyn, USA W PTS 6
1942-07-18 Alex Doyle Long Island City, Queens, W PTS 6
1942-07-15 Julian Malavez West Haven, USA W PTS 6
1942-06-29 Jeff Holloway New Haven, USA W TKO 3
1942-06-17 Bit Beebe New Haven, USA W TKO 4
1942-06-06 Al DeFelice Long Island City, Queens, W PTS 6
1942-05-25 Tommy Rotolo New York, USA L PTS 6
1942-05-18 Tommy Rotolo New York, USA L PTS 4
1942-05-12 Julian Malavez Brooklyn, USA W PTS 4
1942-04-28 Rayford Murray Brooklyn, USA W KO 3
1942-04-20 Eddie Gallucci New York, USA W TKO 4
1942-04-14 Julie Bort Brooklyn, USA W PTS 4
1942-03-31 Jeff Holloway Brooklyn, USA W PTS 4
1942-03-17 Angelo Brocato Brooklyn, USA W PTS 4
1942-03-03 Terry Amico Brooklyn, USA W PTS 4
1942-02-17 Frankie Van Brooklyn, USA W PTS 4
1942-02-03 Willis Johnson Brooklyn, USA W PTS 4

Record to Date
Won 71 (KOs 23) Lost 14 Drawn 3 Total 88

Bobby Pacho. Circa 1931
California State Lightweight Champion

Those of us who were around California boxing back in the 1930s can never forget the ability, the boxing class, the scrapping nature of Bobby Pacho, a Yuma, Az. lightweight who broke into the pro ranks while working as a farm mechanic in El Centro, Ca.

The BoxRec archives show him being from Cleveland, Ohio. Not so. Nor did he start as a pro in 1929. His early bouts, most of them at El Centro, Ca., took place in 1928, some of which he fought as Kid Mexico. I have his early bouts somewhere among my debris; when I ferret them out I will credit them accordingly.

Bobby's record at first sight is nothing to excite one. But in reality the lad had two careers----one early on, when he showed a lot of promise ending in the mid-1930s, and the sunset years, when he became more of an opponent than a stellar attraction. His arc seemed to peak when he pressed Champion Barney Ross to the limit in L.A. in defense of his Jr. Welter Title in 1934.

Bobby was but one of a wealth of fine lightweights active at time in our state. Cecil Payne, Hector McDonald, Tod Morgan, Yg. Peter Jackson, Frankie Klick, Goldie Hess, Kenny LaSalle, Johnny Lamar, and Santiago Zorrilla kept things hummng in the division. And Pacho stood above the lot by winning the state title from Tod Morgan in 1931 before losing it to Yg. Peter Jackson the following year.

He was managed by Bert Morse, who was also Baby Arizmendi's first manager, ahead of Cal Working.

hap navarro

Dongee wrote:Those of us who were around California boxing back in the 1930s can never forget the ability, the boxing class, the scrapping nature of Bobby Pacho, a Yuma, Az. lightweight who broke into the pro ranks while working as a farm mechanic in El Centro, Ca.

The BoxRec archives show him being from Cleveland, Ohio. Not so. Nor did he start as a pro in 1929. His early bouts, most of them at El Centro, Ca., took place in 1928, some of which he fought as Kid Mexico. I have his early bouts somewhere among my debris; when I ferret them out I will credit them accordingly.

Bobby's record at first sight is nothing to excite one. But in reality the lad had two careers----one early on, when he showed a lot of promise ending in the mid-1930s, and the sunset years, when he became more of an opponent than a stellar attraction. His arc seemed to peak when he pressed Champion Barney Ross to the limit in L.A. in defense of his Jr. Welter Title in 1934.

Bobby was but one of a wealth of fine lightweights active at time in our state. Cecil Payne, Hector McDonald, Tod Morgan, Yg. Peter Jackson, Frankie Klick, Goldie Hess, Kenny LaSalle, Johnny Lamar, and Santiago Zorrilla kept things hummng in the division. And Pacho stood above the lot by winning the state title from Tod Morgan in 1931 before losing it to Yg. Peter Jackson the following year.

He was managed by Bert Morse, who was also Baby Arizmendi's first manager, ahead of Cal Working.

hap navarro

Hap . . . I find interesting the part relating to Pacho's birthplace being incorrect, also his early career taking place in the hometown of Manuel Ortiz, El Centro. The reason I bring this up is that the same seems to be true of Manuel Ortiz's birth place.

Ortiz passed away five days prior to my professional debut. I remember the talk of his death going around the Main Street Gym as Johnnie Flores tied on my gloves for a sparring session early in the week. Duke Holloway and Julio Flores were remeniscing about Ortiz with Johnnie and Larry Soto. At the time, I knew very little about Ortiz and assumed he had been born in Mexico. Later that evening I would read an obit in the Herald that stated he had been born in Corona, California. Boxrec lists this as his birth place as well.

If memory serves me correct, you stated that this was false, that Ortiz had been born below the border. I trust your information over others, so maybe you'll rattle my brain and provide the correct answer.

Ironically, just this morning the L.A. Times had a front page feature relating to the sad economic conditions of the Imperial Valley.


-Rick Farris

kikibalt wrote:Harold Green I would put some where on your list, Dan.

Harold Green

Country USA
Global Id 10248
Birthplace Brooklyn, NY
Division Middleweight
Born 1924-10-24
Died 2001-09-00
Stance Orthodox
Height 175cm


Career Record © http://www.boxrec.com

Date Opponent Location Result
1953-02-02 Joey Giardello Brooklyn, USA L UD 10
1952-12-08 Pierre Langlois Brooklyn, USA L SD 10
1951-06-20 Jose Alberto Diaz Miami Beach, USA W PTS 10
1951-05-29 Jose Alberto Diaz Miami Beach, USA W MD 10
1951-02-02 Ernie Durando New York, USA W UD 10
1950-12-27 Chico Pacheco Miami, USA W KO 10
1950-12-04 Ernie Durando Cleveland, USA W PTS 10
1950-10-26 Joey Giardello Brooklyn, USA W RTD 6
1950-08-25 Danny Ruggerio Wilmington, USA W PTS 10
1950-08-04 Bobby James Long Beach, USA W PTS 8
1950-07-28 Tony Masciarelli Long Beach, USA W UD 8
1950-01-06 Paddy Young New York, USA L KO 1
1949-12-16 Rocky Castellani Scranton, USA L PTS 10
1949-10-27 Danny Ruggerio Brooklyn, USA W TKO 6
1949-08-08 Tony Baldoni Wilkes-Barre, USA W TKO 5
1949-04-16 Tony Masciarelli Brooklyn, USA D PTS 8
1949-03-22 Oswaldo Silva Brooklyn, USA W SD 8
1948-08-31 Richie Dallas Brooklyn, USA W PTS 8
1948-05-28 Rocky Castellani New York, USA L SD 10
1948-03-26 Smuggy Hursey New York, USA W PTS 8
1948-03-15 Art Tatta Brooklyn, USA W KO 4
1948-03-01 Chet Vinci Brooklyn, USA W TKO 6
1948-02-17 Joey Falco Brooklyn, USA W KO 2
1947-11-18 Nick Kashuba Brooklyn, USA W PTS 8
1947-11-11 Vince LaSalva Brooklyn, USA W TKO 1
1947-10-28 Victor Amato Brooklyn, USA W TKO 4
1947-06-19 Herbie Kronowitz Brooklyn, USA L UD 10
1947-03-28 Marcel Cerdan New York, USA L TKO 2
1947-01-31 Pete Mead New York, USA W UD 10
1946-11-26 Joe Bennett Brooklyn, USA W UD 8
1946-10-29 Jerry Fiorello Brooklyn, USA W PTS 8
1946-09-09 Sammy Secreet Cleveland, USA W SD 12
1946-05-13 Sammy Secreet Cleveland, USA W UD 10
1946-04-08 Sammy Secreet Cleveland, USA L SD 10
1945-09-28 Rocky Graziano New York, USA L KO 3
1945-06-22 Fritzie Zivic New York, USA W UD 10
1945-05-18 Frankie Terry New York, USA W UD 10
1945-04-07 Larney Moore Brooklyn, USA W KO 4
1945-02-09 Morris Reif New York, USA W UD 10
1944-12-22 Rocky Graziano New York, USA W MD 10
1944-11-25 Johnny Melcher Brooklyn, USA W KO 4
1944-11-03 Rocky Graziano New York, USA W UD 10
1944-10-28 Jerry Fiorello Brooklyn, USA W PTS 8
1944-10-09 Henry Jordan Newark, USA W PTS 8
1944-09-25 Ernest (Cat) Robinson Brooklyn, USA W PTS 8
1944-09-12 Oscar Suggs Brooklyn, USA W PTS 8
1944-08-22 Al Evans Brooklyn, USA W TKO 4
1944-08-01 Jerry Fiorello Brooklyn, USA W PTS 8
1944-07-18 Leo Dulmaine Brooklyn, USA W PTS 10
1944-07-10 Buster Tyler Newark, USA W KO 6
1944-06-27 Phil Enzenga Brooklyn, USA W TKO 1
1944-06-13 George 'Red' Doty Woodhaven, Queens, USA W KO 1
1944-05-29 Tony Riccio Newark, USA D PTS 8
1944-04-17 Joe Matone Newark, USA W PTS 8
1944-03-20 Danny Martin Newark, USA W PTS 8
1944-02-29 Gaspare Abruzzo Brooklyn, USA W KO 3
1944-02-14 Pete Bayrun Newark, USA W KO 1
1943-01-26 Bobby Ruffin Brooklyn, USA L PTS 8
1942-12-29 Frankie Cardinal Brooklyn, USA W PTS 8
1942-12-11 Johnny Greco New York, USA L TKO 1
1942-11-24 George Harper Brooklyn, USA W PTS 8
1942-11-20 Pete Kennedy New York, USA D PTS 6
1942-11-10 Frankie Cardinal White Plains, USA W PTS 8
1942-10-19 Frankie Cardinal New York, USA W TKO 4
1942-10-13 Jeff Holloway Brooklyn, USA W PTS 6
1942-10-03 Alex Doyle Brooklyn, USA W PTS 6
1942-09-29 Tommy Ciarlo White Plains, USA W PTS 6
1942-09-15 Tommy Ciarlo White Plains, USA L PTS 6
1942-09-08 Pete Manchio White Plains, USA W UD 6
1942-08-18 Joe Governale Brooklyn, USA W TKO 6
1942-08-01 Alex Doyle Long Island City, Queens, W PTS 6
1942-07-29 Julian Malavez Brooklyn, USA W PTS 6
1942-07-18 Alex Doyle Long Island City, Queens, W PTS 6
1942-07-15 Julian Malavez West Haven, USA W PTS 6
1942-06-29 Jeff Holloway New Haven, USA W TKO 3
1942-06-17 Bit Beebe New Haven, USA W TKO 4
1942-06-06 Al DeFelice Long Island City, Queens, W PTS 6
1942-05-25 Tommy Rotolo New York, USA L PTS 6
1942-05-18 Tommy Rotolo New York, USA L PTS 4
1942-05-12 Julian Malavez Brooklyn, USA W PTS 4
1942-04-28 Rayford Murray Brooklyn, USA W KO 3
1942-04-20 Eddie Gallucci New York, USA W TKO 4
1942-04-14 Julie Bort Brooklyn, USA W PTS 4
1942-03-31 Jeff Holloway Brooklyn, USA W PTS 4
1942-03-17 Angelo Brocato Brooklyn, USA W PTS 4
1942-03-03 Terry Amico Brooklyn, USA W PTS 4
1942-02-17 Frankie Van Brooklyn, USA W PTS 4
1942-02-03 Willis Johnson Brooklyn, USA W PTS 4

Record to Date
Won 71 (KOs 23) Lost 14 Drawn 3 Total 88

Thirty fights in the "first 11 months" of his pro career.
Add ten more bouts and that's an entire career for Sugar Ray Leonard.
I notice the name "Frankie Van" as his second pro opponent. Could that be Frankie Van the referee?

-Rick Farris

scartissue wrote:The middleweights are next in the contenders series. Who would you guys have added or left out?

Scartissue

MIDDLE
Len Harvey (Eng) (1)
Jock McAvoy (Eng) (0)
Steve Belloise (USA) (2)
Archie Moore (USA) (0)
Georgie Abrams (USA) (1)
Holman Williams (USA) (0)
Charley Burley (USA) (0)
Jack Chase (USA) (0)
Lloyd Marshall (USA) (0)
Spider Webb (USA) (1)
Joey Archer (USA) (2)
Luis Rodriguez (Cuba) (1)
Bennie Briscoe (USA) (3)
Ayub Kalule (Uganda) (0)
Herol Graham (Eng) (2)

Len Harvey, a pro at 12 years of age enjoyed his biggest success at Lt. Heavy but had an outstanding run as a Middleweight. Losing to Marcel Thil for the world title, a man he had already beaten, Harvey also went head to head with Vince Dundee, Ben Jeby, Dave Shade, Jock McAvoy and Jack Hood. McAvoy, himself an outstanding Middle cum Lt. Heavy, killed any chances of a title shot for himself by blowing away newly crowned NBA Middle king Babe Risko in one round in a non-title affair. Steve Belloise, one hard banger out of NY, lost a couple of squeakers to Ken Overlin for the title but beat among others, Ceferino Garcia, Anton Christoforidis, Al Hostak, Georgie Abrams and Robert Villemain. Archie Moore, thought of only as a Lt. Heavy/Heavy, had a very competitive run at 160, holding a spot in the top ten from '40-'43 and besting Lloyd Marshall, Jack Chase and Nate Bolden along the way. Georgie Abrams, not a big banger but sooooo talented. Gave Zale a run for it for the vacant world title and beat Billy Soose (3 times), Lou Broulliard, Teddy Yarosz, Steve Belloise and drew with Charley Burley. Holman Williams, one of the many great black fighters of the '40s avoided by every champ unless it was scheduled for 10. In a stellar career, Williams beat Kid Tunero, Charley Burley, Lloyd Marshall, Jack Chase and Archie Moore. Charley Burley, what can be written about Burley that hasn't already been written? Had Archie Moore down twice and beat him over ten. Also beat Billy Soose, Jack Chase and Holman Williams. One might say the frozen title during the war years was his undoing, but even a certain Mr. Robinson wasn't going near this guy. Jack Chase, the list seems endless regarding these largely avoided fighters. Chase had to content himself with the Calif. State title during the 40s and the fact that he held wins over Moore, Marshall, Eddie Booker and 'Kid' Matthews. Lloyd Marshall, his record is a who's who of world class Lt. Heavies and Middles. At 160 he KO'd Ezzard Charles and beat Burley, Williams, Chase, LaMotta and Overlin. Ellsworth (Spider) Webb was one rough customer who made a habit of interrupting ambitions. Beat future champs Tiger, Giardello and Downes while giving Gene Fullmer two rough goes of it, the latter bout for the title. Joey Archer, 'couldn't break an egg' they used to say, but was so slick. Beat Tiger, Moyer, Hurricane Carter and retired Sugar Ray over 10 rounds. He then lost two controversial decisions to Emile Griffith with the title on the line. Not bad for no punch. Luis Rodriguez, the former Welter king went through the Middles of his day like a dose of salts. Battled Benvenuti to the wire for the 160 lb. title until running into a one-puncher in the 11th. Beat Carter (twice), Briscoe (twice), Moyer, Georgie Benton, Vicente Rondon and Tony Mundine. Bennie Briscoe, a man whose name is synonomous with the term 'Philadelphia fighter', gave Monzon and Valdes a murderous go of it in non-title and title bouts. Also beat Mustafa Muhammad, Rondon, Benton, Mundine and Cyclone Hart. Ayub Kalule, a Jr. Middleweight in a Middleweight's body, thanks to his Promoter who ordered him to boil down to 154. Regardless, at his natural weight of 160 he was formidable in winning Commonwealth and Euro titles, and in beating Sumbu Kalambay, Lindell Holmes, Sugar Ray Seales and Kevin Finnegan. Lastly, Herol Graham, damn near untouchable in his prime. Had Julian Jackson all but out for the vacant title until he pulled a Billy Conn in the 4th. Held wins over Kalule, Holmes, Pazienza and Mark Kaylor.

Honorable mention: Oh man, where do I begin, where do I end? There were so many who could have made this list I wish I could have stretched it to 25. Nevertheless, Dave Shade, Ace Hudkins, Kid Tunero, Jose Basora, Nate Bolden, Eddie Booker, Dave Sands, Holley Mims, Hurricane Carter, Georgie Benton, Cyclone Hart, Tony Mundine, Ronnie Harris, Mustafa Hamsho.

Great list again Dan!

Three more that were outstanding contendors

Florentino Fernandez, that cat could really bang.
Willie "The Worm ' Monroe
Bobby "Bogaloo" Watts

Joe Chaney
Fresno, Calif.

Herbie Hansford
Los Angeles, Calif.

Rick Farris wrote:

kikibalt wrote:Harold Green I would put some where on your list, Dan.

Harold Green

Country USA
Global Id 10248
Birthplace Brooklyn, NY
Division Middleweight
Born 1924-10-24
Died 2001-09-00
Stance Orthodox
Height 175cm


Career Record © http://www.boxrec.com

Date Opponent Location Result
1953-02-02 Joey Giardello Brooklyn, USA L UD 10
1952-12-08 Pierre Langlois Brooklyn, USA L SD 10
1951-06-20 Jose Alberto Diaz Miami Beach, USA W PTS 10
1951-05-29 Jose Alberto Diaz Miami Beach, USA W MD 10
1951-02-02 Ernie Durando New York, USA W UD 10
1950-12-27 Chico Pacheco Miami, USA W KO 10
1950-12-04 Ernie Durando Cleveland, USA W PTS 10
1950-10-26 Joey Giardello Brooklyn, USA W RTD 6
1950-08-25 Danny Ruggerio Wilmington, USA W PTS 10
1950-08-04 Bobby James Long Beach, USA W PTS 8
1950-07-28 Tony Masciarelli Long Beach, USA W UD 8
1950-01-06 Paddy Young New York, USA L KO 1
1949-12-16 Rocky Castellani Scranton, USA L PTS 10
1949-10-27 Danny Ruggerio Brooklyn, USA W TKO 6
1949-08-08 Tony Baldoni Wilkes-Barre, USA W TKO 5
1949-04-16 Tony Masciarelli Brooklyn, USA D PTS 8
1949-03-22 Oswaldo Silva Brooklyn, USA W SD 8
1948-08-31 Richie Dallas Brooklyn, USA W PTS 8
1948-05-28 Rocky Castellani New York, USA L SD 10
1948-03-26 Smuggy Hursey New York, USA W PTS 8
1948-03-15 Art Tatta Brooklyn, USA W KO 4
1948-03-01 Chet Vinci Brooklyn, USA W TKO 6
1948-02-17 Joey Falco Brooklyn, USA W KO 2
1947-11-18 Nick Kashuba Brooklyn, USA W PTS 8
1947-11-11 Vince LaSalva Brooklyn, USA W TKO 1
1947-10-28 Victor Amato Brooklyn, USA W TKO 4
1947-06-19 Herbie Kronowitz Brooklyn, USA L UD 10
1947-03-28 Marcel Cerdan New York, USA L TKO 2
1947-01-31 Pete Mead New York, USA W UD 10
1946-11-26 Joe Bennett Brooklyn, USA W UD 8
1946-10-29 Jerry Fiorello Brooklyn, USA W PTS 8
1946-09-09 Sammy Secreet Cleveland, USA W SD 12
1946-05-13 Sammy Secreet Cleveland, USA W UD 10
1946-04-08 Sammy Secreet Cleveland, USA L SD 10
1945-09-28 Rocky Graziano New York, USA L KO 3
1945-06-22 Fritzie Zivic New York, USA W UD 10
1945-05-18 Frankie Terry New York, USA W UD 10
1945-04-07 Larney Moore Brooklyn, USA W KO 4
1945-02-09 Morris Reif New York, USA W UD 10
1944-12-22 Rocky Graziano New York, USA W MD 10
1944-11-25 Johnny Melcher Brooklyn, USA W KO 4
1944-11-03 Rocky Graziano New York, USA W UD 10
1944-10-28 Jerry Fiorello Brooklyn, USA W PTS 8
1944-10-09 Henry Jordan Newark, USA W PTS 8
1944-09-25 Ernest (Cat) Robinson Brooklyn, USA W PTS 8
1944-09-12 Oscar Suggs Brooklyn, USA W PTS 8
1944-08-22 Al Evans Brooklyn, USA W TKO 4
1944-08-01 Jerry Fiorello Brooklyn, USA W PTS 8
1944-07-18 Leo Dulmaine Brooklyn, USA W PTS 10
1944-07-10 Buster Tyler Newark, USA W KO 6
1944-06-27 Phil Enzenga Brooklyn, USA W TKO 1
1944-06-13 George 'Red' Doty Woodhaven, Queens, USA W KO 1
1944-05-29 Tony Riccio Newark, USA D PTS 8
1944-04-17 Joe Matone Newark, USA W PTS 8
1944-03-20 Danny Martin Newark, USA W PTS 8
1944-02-29 Gaspare Abruzzo Brooklyn, USA W KO 3
1944-02-14 Pete Bayrun Newark, USA W KO 1
1943-01-26 Bobby Ruffin Brooklyn, USA L PTS 8
1942-12-29 Frankie Cardinal Brooklyn, USA W PTS 8
1942-12-11 Johnny Greco New York, USA L TKO 1
1942-11-24 George Harper Brooklyn, USA W PTS 8
1942-11-20 Pete Kennedy New York, USA D PTS 6
1942-11-10 Frankie Cardinal White Plains, USA W PTS 8
1942-10-19 Frankie Cardinal New York, USA W TKO 4
1942-10-13 Jeff Holloway Brooklyn, USA W PTS 6
1942-10-03 Alex Doyle Brooklyn, USA W PTS 6
1942-09-29 Tommy Ciarlo White Plains, USA W PTS 6
1942-09-15 Tommy Ciarlo White Plains, USA L PTS 6
1942-09-08 Pete Manchio White Plains, USA W UD 6
1942-08-18 Joe Governale Brooklyn, USA W TKO 6
1942-08-01 Alex Doyle Long Island City, Queens, W PTS 6
1942-07-29 Julian Malavez Brooklyn, USA W PTS 6
1942-07-18 Alex Doyle Long Island City, Queens, W PTS 6
1942-07-15 Julian Malavez West Haven, USA W PTS 6
1942-06-29 Jeff Holloway New Haven, USA W TKO 3
1942-06-17 Bit Beebe New Haven, USA W TKO 4
1942-06-06 Al DeFelice Long Island City, Queens, W PTS 6
1942-05-25 Tommy Rotolo New York, USA L PTS 6
1942-05-18 Tommy Rotolo New York, USA L PTS 4
1942-05-12 Julian Malavez Brooklyn, USA W PTS 4
1942-04-28 Rayford Murray Brooklyn, USA W KO 3
1942-04-20 Eddie Gallucci New York, USA W TKO 4
1942-04-14 Julie Bort Brooklyn, USA W PTS 4
1942-03-31 Jeff Holloway Brooklyn, USA W PTS 4
1942-03-17 Angelo Brocato Brooklyn, USA W PTS 4
1942-03-03 Terry Amico Brooklyn, USA W PTS 4
1942-02-17 Frankie Van Brooklyn, USA W PTS 4
1942-02-03 Willis Johnson Brooklyn, USA W PTS 4

Record to Date
Won 71 (KOs 23) Lost 14 Drawn 3 Total 88

Thirty fights in the "first 11 months" of his pro career.
Add ten more bouts and that's an entire career for Sugar Ray Leonard.
I notice the name "Frankie Van" as his second pro opponent. Could that be Frankie Van the referee?

-Rick Farris

Not the same Frankie Van, Rick, thee Frankie Van fought as a bantamweight in the late 1920's

OPEN AGAIN

Burke Emery's place re opened yesterday. I drove by,saw the light on ,and pulled over. Turned out Champs Bar had just opened its doors that morning for the first time since it was torched just before the New Year. They said it was a homeless guy who crawled out of the canyon and threw gasoline under the door. That's what the night bartender told me.

Champs Bar is the typical local hangout. If it weren't for Burke I wouldn't set foot in there. Burke trained fighters in San Diego. Art Hafey was his meal ticket for a while. Art could really wing that left hook of his. Knocked out Olivares with it in Monterrey,but couldn't get by him again in the rematch. And then Arguello finiished what left Art had of winning a belt with the stoppage in Nicaragua. Burke said he didn't want to go down there for that. Art's version is a one eighty.

I remember when Burke tended bar in the place before he bought it.After his shift, he shifted to the other side of the bar until closing. It was called Cronin's then. When it went up for sale, Burke and his girlfriend Shirley opted for the chance to be host and hostess.

Burke put up his boxing memorabilia. Old posters,boxing gloves,newspaper articles.That all went up in the fire. Burke was the light heavy champ of Canada back in the 50's. His big shot came against Jose Torres in the Garden,but Jose was a better fighter.

Burke blew in to San Diego with a stable of Canadian fighters and for a while his boys were a mainstay of talent at the downtown Coliseum. But with the advent of cable TV ,the small venues like the Coliseum went dark.

Now he owns his bar. It's been years since he's rubbed elbows with the fight community. San Diego's boxing scene is practically non existent. Archie Moore,Ken Norton,the Mexican fighters from across the border are only memories.

Like I said,I wouldn't walk inside Burke's joint if he wasn't around. The bar is full of drunks with surly dispositions especially if you're a stranger. Burke is liked by everyone,but sometimes I think his customers don't treat him with respect. They call him Champ. He likes that. They'll bring up boxing to him ,but before he can respond they tell HIM what's going on about the sport. He doesn't seem to mind that either.

I've talked to him about boxing a few times. He doesn't recall that much anymore. He talks about guys like Ernie Fuentes like he's still alive. Ernie died years ago. He doesn't know where anybody is. It doesn't seem to bother him. He likes playing darts and drinking beer.

You can see that he took a lot of shots. His face and his speech will attest to that. Like I said,Champs opened its doors again. I saw Burke get out of his car carrying a case of Pepsi. I gave him a pat on the shoulder and wished him luck. Standing at the door were two guys ,one wearing a Charger jersey,the other a Padre shirt. They gave me the stare. I walked fast towwards them and tried to fix my eyes on theirs. They looked down. I turned on my heel and went back to my car.

kikibalt wrote:Harold Green I would put some where on your list, Dan.

Harold Green

Country USA
Global Id 10248
Birthplace Brooklyn, NY
Division Middleweight
Born 1924-10-24
Died 2001-09-00
Stance Orthodox
Height 175cm


Career Record © http://www.boxrec.com

Date Opponent Location Result
1953-02-02 Joey Giardello Brooklyn, USA L UD 10
1952-12-08 Pierre Langlois Brooklyn, USA L SD 10
1951-06-20 Jose Alberto Diaz Miami Beach, USA W PTS 10
1951-05-29 Jose Alberto Diaz Miami Beach, USA W MD 10
1951-02-02 Ernie Durando New York, USA W UD 10
1950-12-27 Chico Pacheco Miami, USA W KO 10
1950-12-04 Ernie Durando Cleveland, USA W PTS 10
1950-10-26 Joey Giardello Brooklyn, USA W RTD 6
1950-08-25 Danny Ruggerio Wilmington, USA W PTS 10
1950-08-04 Bobby James Long Beach, USA W PTS 8
1950-07-28 Tony Masciarelli Long Beach, USA W UD 8
1950-01-06 Paddy Young New York, USA L KO 1
1949-12-16 Rocky Castellani Scranton, USA L PTS 10
1949-10-27 Danny Ruggerio Brooklyn, USA W TKO 6
1949-08-08 Tony Baldoni Wilkes-Barre, USA W TKO 5
1949-04-16 Tony Masciarelli Brooklyn, USA D PTS 8
1949-03-22 Oswaldo Silva Brooklyn, USA W SD 8
1948-08-31 Richie Dallas Brooklyn, USA W PTS 8
1948-05-28 Rocky Castellani New York, USA L SD 10
1948-03-26 Smuggy Hursey New York, USA W PTS 8
1948-03-15 Art Tatta Brooklyn, USA W KO 4
1948-03-01 Chet Vinci Brooklyn, USA W TKO 6
1948-02-17 Joey Falco Brooklyn, USA W KO 2
1947-11-18 Nick Kashuba Brooklyn, USA W PTS 8
1947-11-11 Vince LaSalva Brooklyn, USA W TKO 1
1947-10-28 Victor Amato Brooklyn, USA W TKO 4
1947-06-19 Herbie Kronowitz Brooklyn, USA L UD 10
1947-03-28 Marcel Cerdan New York, USA L TKO 2
1947-01-31 Pete Mead New York, USA W UD 10
1946-11-26 Joe Bennett Brooklyn, USA W UD 8
1946-10-29 Jerry Fiorello Brooklyn, USA W PTS 8
1946-09-09 Sammy Secreet Cleveland, USA W SD 12
1946-05-13 Sammy Secreet Cleveland, USA W UD 10
1946-04-08 Sammy Secreet Cleveland, USA L SD 10
1945-09-28 Rocky Graziano New York, USA L KO 3
1945-06-22 Fritzie Zivic New York, USA W UD 10
1945-05-18 Frankie Terry New York, USA W UD 10
1945-04-07 Larney Moore Brooklyn, USA W KO 4
1945-02-09 Morris Reif New York, USA W UD 10
1944-12-22 Rocky Graziano New York, USA W MD 10
1944-11-25 Johnny Melcher Brooklyn, USA W KO 4
1944-11-03 Rocky Graziano New York, USA W UD 10
1944-10-28 Jerry Fiorello Brooklyn, USA W PTS 8
1944-10-09 Henry Jordan Newark, USA W PTS 8
1944-09-25 Ernest (Cat) Robinson Brooklyn, USA W PTS 8
1944-09-12 Oscar Suggs Brooklyn, USA W PTS 8
1944-08-22 Al Evans Brooklyn, USA W TKO 4
1944-08-01 Jerry Fiorello Brooklyn, USA W PTS 8
1944-07-18 Leo Dulmaine Brooklyn, USA W PTS 10
1944-07-10 Buster Tyler Newark, USA W KO 6
1944-06-27 Phil Enzenga Brooklyn, USA W TKO 1
1944-06-13 George 'Red' Doty Woodhaven, Queens, USA W KO 1
1944-05-29 Tony Riccio Newark, USA D PTS 8
1944-04-17 Joe Matone Newark, USA W PTS 8
1944-03-20 Danny Martin Newark, USA W PTS 8
1944-02-29 Gaspare Abruzzo Brooklyn, USA W KO 3
1944-02-14 Pete Bayrun Newark, USA W KO 1
1943-01-26 Bobby Ruffin Brooklyn, USA L PTS 8
1942-12-29 Frankie Cardinal Brooklyn, USA W PTS 8
1942-12-11 Johnny Greco New York, USA L TKO 1
1942-11-24 George Harper Brooklyn, USA W PTS 8
1942-11-20 Pete Kennedy New York, USA D PTS 6
1942-11-10 Frankie Cardinal White Plains, USA W PTS 8
1942-10-19 Frankie Cardinal New York, USA W TKO 4
1942-10-13 Jeff Holloway Brooklyn, USA W PTS 6
1942-10-03 Alex Doyle Brooklyn, USA W PTS 6
1942-09-29 Tommy Ciarlo White Plains, USA W PTS 6
1942-09-15 Tommy Ciarlo White Plains, USA L PTS 6
1942-09-08 Pete Manchio White Plains, USA W UD 6
1942-08-18 Joe Governale Brooklyn, USA W TKO 6
1942-08-01 Alex Doyle Long Island City, Queens, W PTS 6
1942-07-29 Julian Malavez Brooklyn, USA W PTS 6
1942-07-18 Alex Doyle Long Island City, Queens, W PTS 6
1942-07-15 Julian Malavez West Haven, USA W PTS 6
1942-06-29 Jeff Holloway New Haven, USA W TKO 3
1942-06-17 Bit Beebe New Haven, USA W TKO 4
1942-06-06 Al DeFelice Long Island City, Queens, W PTS 6
1942-05-25 Tommy Rotolo New York, USA L PTS 6
1942-05-18 Tommy Rotolo New York, USA L PTS 4
1942-05-12 Julian Malavez Brooklyn, USA W PTS 4
1942-04-28 Rayford Murray Brooklyn, USA W KO 3
1942-04-20 Eddie Gallucci New York, USA W TKO 4
1942-04-14 Julie Bort Brooklyn, USA W PTS 4
1942-03-31 Jeff Holloway Brooklyn, USA W PTS 4
1942-03-17 Angelo Brocato Brooklyn, USA W PTS 4
1942-03-03 Terry Amico Brooklyn, USA W PTS 4
1942-02-17 Frankie Van Brooklyn, USA W PTS 4
1942-02-03 Willis Johnson Brooklyn, USA W PTS 4

Record to Date
Won 71 (KOs 23) Lost 14 Drawn 3 Total 88

Frank, an outstanding, overlooked contender. Nice wins over Giardello, Graziano, Zivic, Durando and Mead. Incidentally, do you guys remember before he died that he did an interview with Ring mag claiming he took a dive in the 3rd Graziano fight? It was strange, the reports state that Rocky laid him out, but when the ref counted him out and he regained his footing, he attacked Graziano. I forget the explanation. I'll have to look it up.

Scartissue

[quote="ExpugGreat list again Dan!

Three more that were outstanding contendors

Florentino Fernandez, that cat could really bang.
Willie "The Worm ' Monroe
Bobby "Bogaloo" Watts[/quote]

Outstanding contenders, Brian. The middleweights are so rich in history it's a crime to leave any of them out.

Scartissue

Harold Green with trainers Freddie Brown and Ray Arcel

Harold Green was from the same neighborhood which produced Murder Inc., Al (Bummy) Davis and Mike Tyson. He was rated as high as the #2 Middleweight in the world by The Ring Magazine.

I am sorry to learn that Greg Page has passed away due to injuries he sustained in his last bout that took place in 2001. It is my hope that his family, friends and fans accept my condolences.

- Chuck Johnston

I found a fighter named Robert Pacho, born about 1910, listed in the 1930 U.S. Census twice, living in El Centro with his wife and son and living in the Los Angeles area with another fighter. Of course, Pacho had a number of fights in the Los Angeles area ca. 1930. I think that Pacho had at least two children, so it may be that he has descendents living in Southern California at the present time.

Hap is right....Pacho's overall won-loss record doesn't give a true picture of how good he was during the first half of his career.

- Chuck Johnston

Many thanks for the fine compliments of the L.A. book by Tracy Callis and myself.

- Chuck Johnston

kikibalt wrote:
Harold Green with trainers Freddie Brown and Ray Arcel

Harold Green was from the same neighborhood which produced Murder Inc., Al (Bummy) Davis and Mike Tyson. He was rated as high as the #2 Middleweight in the world by The Ring Magazine.

Frank . . . . Thanks for bringing up the name Harold Green. It leads us down another very important path in the world of boxing. Arcel & Brown were Roberto Duran's team. And Tyson's neighborhood was Brownsville. This area of Brooklyn was once a Jewish Ghetto, where guys settled while building the Brooklyn Bridge. I met a Brownsville product, Lew Feldman, a guy who was a feather contender in the 30's. Feldman fought Kid Chocolate, Henry Armstrong, Freddie Miller, Richie Lemos, Chalky Wright, and many more. I met Lew in the late 70's, when he was working as a laborer at Paramount Studios. Lou told me about Ray Arcel, and the greats of his neighborhood. Were going deep guys, I love it !

-Rick Farris

scartissue wrote:[quote="ExpugGreat list again Dan!

Three more that were outstanding contendors

Florentino Fernandez, that cat could really bang.
Willie "The Worm ' Monroe
Bobby "Bogaloo" Watts

Outstanding contenders, Brian. The middleweights are so rich in history it's a crime to leave any of them out.

Scartissue
________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

I second that, Dan. Brian, great additions! Willie "The Worm" whipped Hagler, Angel Robinson Garcia and the cagey Stanley "Kitten" Hayward. This is one of the guys they are talking about when the refer to the best Philadelphia middleweights.

Florentino Fernandez was a bomber. My old pal Joey Giambra was a heavy underdog to this Cuban when they met in the early 60's, past Joey's prime, but the slick Giambra stopped the parrot nosed Fernandez on cuts before any of his bombs could land.


-Rick Farris

kikibalt wrote:

Rick Farris wrote:

kikibalt wrote:Harold Green I would put some where on your list, Dan.

Harold Green

Country USA
Global Id 10248
Birthplace Brooklyn, NY
Division Middleweight
Born 1924-10-24
Died 2001-09-00
Stance Orthodox
Height 175cm


Career Record © http://www.boxrec.com

Date Opponent Location Result
1953-02-02 Joey Giardello Brooklyn, USA L UD 10
1952-12-08 Pierre Langlois Brooklyn, USA L SD 10
1951-06-20 Jose Alberto Diaz Miami Beach, USA W PTS 10
1951-05-29 Jose Alberto Diaz Miami Beach, USA W MD 10
1951-02-02 Ernie Durando New York, USA W UD 10
1950-12-27 Chico Pacheco Miami, USA W KO 10
1950-12-04 Ernie Durando Cleveland, USA W PTS 10
1950-10-26 Joey Giardello Brooklyn, USA W RTD 6
1950-08-25 Danny Ruggerio Wilmington, USA W PTS 10
1950-08-04 Bobby James Long Beach, USA W PTS 8
1950-07-28 Tony Masciarelli Long Beach, USA W UD 8
1950-01-06 Paddy Young New York, USA L KO 1
1949-12-16 Rocky Castellani Scranton, USA L PTS 10
1949-10-27 Danny Ruggerio Brooklyn, USA W TKO 6
1949-08-08 Tony Baldoni Wilkes-Barre, USA W TKO 5
1949-04-16 Tony Masciarelli Brooklyn, USA D PTS 8
1949-03-22 Oswaldo Silva Brooklyn, USA W SD 8
1948-08-31 Richie Dallas Brooklyn, USA W PTS 8
1948-05-28 Rocky Castellani New York, USA L SD 10
1948-03-26 Smuggy Hursey New York, USA W PTS 8
1948-03-15 Art Tatta Brooklyn, USA W KO 4
1948-03-01 Chet Vinci Brooklyn, USA W TKO 6
1948-02-17 Joey Falco Brooklyn, USA W KO 2
1947-11-18 Nick Kashuba Brooklyn, USA W PTS 8
1947-11-11 Vince LaSalva Brooklyn, USA W TKO 1
1947-10-28 Victor Amato Brooklyn, USA W TKO 4
1947-06-19 Herbie Kronowitz Brooklyn, USA L UD 10
1947-03-28 Marcel Cerdan New York, USA L TKO 2
1947-01-31 Pete Mead New York, USA W UD 10
1946-11-26 Joe Bennett Brooklyn, USA W UD 8
1946-10-29 Jerry Fiorello Brooklyn, USA W PTS 8
1946-09-09 Sammy Secreet Cleveland, USA W SD 12
1946-05-13 Sammy Secreet Cleveland, USA W UD 10
1946-04-08 Sammy Secreet Cleveland, USA L SD 10
1945-09-28 Rocky Graziano New York, USA L KO 3
1945-06-22 Fritzie Zivic New York, USA W UD 10
1945-05-18 Frankie Terry New York, USA W UD 10
1945-04-07 Larney Moore Brooklyn, USA W KO 4
1945-02-09 Morris Reif New York, USA W UD 10
1944-12-22 Rocky Graziano New York, USA W MD 10
1944-11-25 Johnny Melcher Brooklyn, USA W KO 4
1944-11-03 Rocky Graziano New York, USA W UD 10
1944-10-28 Jerry Fiorello Brooklyn, USA W PTS 8
1944-10-09 Henry Jordan Newark, USA W PTS 8
1944-09-25 Ernest (Cat) Robinson Brooklyn, USA W PTS 8
1944-09-12 Oscar Suggs Brooklyn, USA W PTS 8
1944-08-22 Al Evans Brooklyn, USA W TKO 4
1944-08-01 Jerry Fiorello Brooklyn, USA W PTS 8
1944-07-18 Leo Dulmaine Brooklyn, USA W PTS 10
1944-07-10 Buster Tyler Newark, USA W KO 6
1944-06-27 Phil Enzenga Brooklyn, USA W TKO 1
1944-06-13 George 'Red' Doty Woodhaven, Queens, USA W KO 1
1944-05-29 Tony Riccio Newark, USA D PTS 8
1944-04-17 Joe Matone Newark, USA W PTS 8
1944-03-20 Danny Martin Newark, USA W PTS 8
1944-02-29 Gaspare Abruzzo Brooklyn, USA W KO 3
1944-02-14 Pete Bayrun Newark, USA W KO 1
1943-01-26 Bobby Ruffin Brooklyn, USA L PTS 8
1942-12-29 Frankie Cardinal Brooklyn, USA W PTS 8
1942-12-11 Johnny Greco New York, USA L TKO 1
1942-11-24 George Harper Brooklyn, USA W PTS 8
1942-11-20 Pete Kennedy New York, USA D PTS 6
1942-11-10 Frankie Cardinal White Plains, USA W PTS 8
1942-10-19 Frankie Cardinal New York, USA W TKO 4
1942-10-13 Jeff Holloway Brooklyn, USA W PTS 6
1942-10-03 Alex Doyle Brooklyn, USA W PTS 6
1942-09-29 Tommy Ciarlo White Plains, USA W PTS 6
1942-09-15 Tommy Ciarlo White Plains, USA L PTS 6
1942-09-08 Pete Manchio White Plains, USA W UD 6
1942-08-18 Joe Governale Brooklyn, USA W TKO 6
1942-08-01 Alex Doyle Long Island City, Queens, W PTS 6
1942-07-29 Julian Malavez Brooklyn, USA W PTS 6
1942-07-18 Alex Doyle Long Island City, Queens, W PTS 6
1942-07-15 Julian Malavez West Haven, USA W PTS 6
1942-06-29 Jeff Holloway New Haven, USA W TKO 3
1942-06-17 Bit Beebe New Haven, USA W TKO 4
1942-06-06 Al DeFelice Long Island City, Queens, W PTS 6
1942-05-25 Tommy Rotolo New York, USA L PTS 6
1942-05-18 Tommy Rotolo New York, USA L PTS 4
1942-05-12 Julian Malavez Brooklyn, USA W PTS 4
1942-04-28 Rayford Murray Brooklyn, USA W KO 3
1942-04-20 Eddie Gallucci New York, USA W TKO 4
1942-04-14 Julie Bort Brooklyn, USA W PTS 4
1942-03-31 Jeff Holloway Brooklyn, USA W PTS 4
1942-03-17 Angelo Brocato Brooklyn, USA W PTS 4
1942-03-03 Terry Amico Brooklyn, USA W PTS 4
1942-02-17 Frankie Van Brooklyn, USA W PTS 4
1942-02-03 Willis Johnson Brooklyn, USA W PTS 4

Record to Date
Won 71 (KOs 23) Lost 14 Drawn 3 Total 88

Thirty fights in the "first 11 months" of his pro career.
Add ten more bouts and that's an entire career for Sugar Ray Leonard.
I notice the name "Frankie Van" as his second pro opponent. Could that be Frankie Van the referee?

-Rick Farris

Not the same Frankie Van, Rick, thee Frankie Van fought as a bantamweight in the late 1920's

Frank . . . Thanks for info. I recall in the mid-60's, watching a lightweight title bout live from Mexico. It was when Carlos Ortiz defended his title against Sugar Ramos.
Frankie Van was the referee. The Mexican's were pissed because the Puerto Rican won over the Cuban whom they had adopted as one of their own, like Jose Napoles.
They rioted and were throwing everything into the ring. Trainer Teddy Bentham took the spit bucket and put it over Ortiz's head like a helmet as he headed up the aisle to the dressing room.

At last years WBHOF banquet, I asked Ortiz about the incident and he said he couldn't see a thing as he was guided back to the dressing room, but he could hear the clanking of debris as it bounced off the bucket. Later that week, Van returned to Los Angeles and was interviewed on the Thursday night TV broadcast of boxing from the Olympic by Mickey Davies.

Van said he thought he wasn't going to make it out of the place alive.


-Rick Farris