Classic American West Coast Boxing

[Rick Farris]

I met Frank Stallone a couple of years ago at the WBHF. He was coming there all the time and I too think he's a nice guy, interested in memorabilia and such. I was aware of his interest in Ad Wolgast and that he had the tag of historian about him. However, there was this point where he was holding court in front of a number of people including his Cuban girlfriend and he was naming all the great Cuban fighters. He was ticking them off and when he was finished I chimed in with, "Don't forget Jose Legra." He had no idea who I was talking about. But fair play to him, he didn't pretend to. He was honest when he looked at me and said, "I'm not familiar with him." It's funny how, when Castro came to power, banning pro boxing and following where all the Cubans ended up. Jose Napoles and Sugar Ramos headed to Mexico, Benny Paret and Jose Stable were off to New York, Luis Rodriguez and Doug Vaillant made Miami home, but Angel Robinson Garcia and Jose Legra headed for Europe. Garcia and Legra fought very often and must have earned a decent living with the amount of work they found but did seem to go unnoticed. Maybe I'm being a bit pretentious, but I figured if you're an historian you would know about Jose Legra, afterall, I was just a kid who read magazines and I knew him.

Scartissue
____________________________________________________________________________________________________________


Scar . . . Good point about Jose Legra. Let me say in defense of Frank Stallone, that he spent a lot of time in Florida, and no doubt got all the Cuban boxing info right from the source, the Fifth Street Gym, Chris Dundee, Angelo, etc.
Jose Legra was a special champ in a special era, but he didn't follow that Miami Beach trail to stardom.
Maybe this accounts for Stallone's lack of info. I so appreciate when a guy doesn't know something they have the confidence to admit it, and then learn.
The guy probably made it a priority to expand his knowledge on Legra and others.


-Rick Farris

[dagosd2000]

NO DINERO IN THE JUKEBOX

Going to Spain next week. I painted a portrait of Amanda's Flamenco teacher. Had to put a frame on it so I took it down to TJ to the lady who does my framing.

I had a little time to kill so I got a haircut. A number one. Real close. It's hot in Spain now. Also took a stroll to the Coahuila. Hadn't been there for a while. Who says a bad economy doesn't affect everyone?Even in a place where a man goes to find happiness. Even if it's momentarily.

It was around 11 o'clock and the place was just starting to wake up. But I noticed the mood was pretty drowsy. The street was dead. Even for a Thursday morning,it was dead.

A lively place the Coahuila was once,but now it was runnin' on empty. The girls leaned against the walls .They didn't make a move or give a look when I walked by. The bars were hallow halls. Didn't even here music coming out of the jukeboxes. No street musicians that I could see.

I talked to one of the girls on the corner that I've seen around . She told me many of the girls have gone back home for good. Business isn't what it used to be. That along with all the shootings. Like i said the 'ol Coahuila is winding down. It's like a fighter who has taken a good beating. The corner wants to throw in the towel.

As I walked back to pick up my painting,I wondered what is the world coming to? When the cantina is empty that means there is no one there to play the music.

[dagosd2000]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e6GjwPxtLVs

Jose Legra vs. Howard Winstone

[dagosd2000]

]

Thanks Frank
Anthony got a ride to the Art Institue for Film Making in San Francisco, He makes films now. He's definitely got a passion for creating movies.[/quote]

You need to introduce him to Rick.[/quote]

Tom
You're right. HEY RICK! If you're out there any ideas on what my grandson should be thinking?

[dagosd2000]

Mando Ramos

Very nice, Roger.

Thanks Rick
Mando Ramos is hard for me to paint. It's funny,but I remember his image better at the very end. I don't want to paint that right now even though Mando's face at the end said a lot.

[bennie]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e6GjwPxtLVs

Jose Legra vs. Howard Winstone

Yes, Legra won the fight with one of the first punches he threw (Winstone's eye 'went' and he was fighting a losing battle immediately) in a place Frank Stallone will never ever have heard of (Porthcawl in Wales), so I do have some respect for Stallone. Howard was over the hill after his three wars with Saldivar (and he got a bit lucky in winning the title against Seki in London, when the referee pulled Seki out with cuts) but Legra was class. He won the title in Britain and he lost the title in Britain (to Aussie Johnny Famechon, on a decision that still rankles with some today). Coincidentally, there was a heavyweight fight in Britain at the Albert Hall in the late Sixties: a 10-round war between Leotis Martin and Thad Spencer. It is still talked about as one of the greatest fights ever seen here, or should I say never seen. Sadly, it was not televised.


PS: I'm pretty sure Winstone had previously beaten Legra.

[dagosd2000]

PS: I'm pretty sure Winstone had previously beaten Legra.[/quote]

Correctomundo

[dagosd2000]

Imagine if Jose Legra would have followed Napoles and Sugar Ramos to Mexico? Legra would have been in the thick of it with the creme de la creme. I look at his record in Europe and see that he fought a lot of 8 round fights with lesser name fighters.

Saw Legra on Closed Circuit in Mexico destroy Clemente Sanchez for the title. Sanchez failed to make weight and would have had to give up the belt anyway,but Legra had him on the deck ten times. This was when Legra was at the end of his career. The fight was in Monterrey ,Mexico.

Correct me if I'm wrong,but I think Legra either was in Mexico for a while or he had original intentions of relocating there.

[dagosd2000]

Just went to the BoxRec records. Legra fought in Mexico from 1961-1963. I know there's someone on the forum who knows why Legra was enticed to Spain. I think it had something to do with his manager.

[raylawpc]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e6GjwPxtLVs

Jose Legra vs. Howard Winstone

Yes, Legra won the fight with one of the first punches he threw (Winstone's eye 'went' and he was fighting a losing battle immediately) in a place Frank Stallone will never ever have heard of (Porthcawl in Wales), so I do have some respect for Stallone. Howard was over the hill after his three wars with Saldivar (and he got a bit lucky in winning the title against Seki in London, when the referee pulled Seki out with cuts) but Legra was class. He won the title in Britain and he lost the title in Britain (to Aussie Johnny Famechon, on a decision that still rankles with some today). Coincidentally, there was a heavyweight fight in Britain at the Albert Hall in the late Sixties: a 10-round war between Leotis Martin and Thad Spencer. It is still talked about as one of the greatest fights ever seen here, or should I say never seen. Sadly, it was not televised.


PS: I'm pretty sure Winstone had previously beaten Legra.

In defense of Frank Stallone, Bennie, not too many people on this side of the Atlantic have heard of Porthcawl in Wales.

[scartissue]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e6GjwPxtLVs

Jose Legra vs. Howard Winstone

Rog, this was a great find. Man, I love youtube. BTW, has anyone here ever seen that "sucking the swelling down" that Eddie Thomas performed at the end of round 4? I never have. Was it ever noted as effective? I could never see anyone performing that today with the communicable diseases so rampant. Eddie Thomas was old school. He brought world titles to Howard Winstone and Ken Buchanan and was one helluva fighter himself once.

Scartissue

[dagosd2000]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e6GjwPxtLVs

Jose Legra vs. Howard Winstone

Rog, this was a great find. Man, I love youtube. BTW, has anyone here ever seen that "sucking the swelling down" that Eddie Thomas performed at the end of round 4? I never have. Was it ever noted as effective? I could never see anyone performing that today with the communicable diseases so rampant. Eddie Thomas was old school. He brought world titles to Howard Winstone and Ken Buchanan and was one helluva fighter himself once.

Scartissue

Dan
I was fascinated by that bit of close contact too. Never even heard of it before.

BTW. Pops still kickin' balls over there in the Windy City?

[dagosd2000]

One more thing to add on Jose Legra. As you know by now,we go to Spain annually with the family.The late Pedro Carrasco walks on water in Spain.He's a greater sports legend than any bullfighter or soccer player.They had a pole over there for the greatest sports hero and Carrasco won hands down.Remember this guy "won" the title in Spain resting his back on the canvas when the ref said he was fouled by Ramos.

Jose Legra? He's on the "pay no mind list" over there in Spain.

Mantequilla's name is on every "aficianado's" lips in Mexico.

[scartissue]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e6GjwPxtLVs

Jose Legra vs. Howard Winstone

Rog, this was a great find. Man, I love youtube. BTW, has anyone here ever seen that "sucking the swelling down" that Eddie Thomas performed at the end of round 4? I never have. Was it ever noted as effective? I could never see anyone performing that today with the communicable diseases so rampant. Eddie Thomas was old school. He brought world titles to Howard Winstone and Ken Buchanan and was one helluva fighter himself once.

Scartissue

Dan
I was fascinated by that bit of close contact too. Never even heard of it before.

BTW. Pops still kickin' balls over there in the Windy City?

Kickin' balls and getting antsy. We're leaving for Manitoba in about 2 weeks for our annual Canadian fishing trip. Looking forward to sitting on a rock in the middle of the Canadian wilderness eating walleye that is so fresh it was swimming around a half hour earlier and downing it with a bottle of LaBatt's Blue. Man, it doesn't get much better than that.

Scartissue

[scartissue]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YQdeQkYDABs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B1AG4xD6It8

Guys, check this out. Parts 1 & 2 (they're short) of an interview with Alan Minter. Really good.

Scartissue

[Rick Farris]

NO DINERO IN THE JUKEBOX

Going to Spain next week. I painted a portrait of Amanda's Flamenco teacher. Had to put a frame on it so I took it down to TJ to the lady who does my framing.

I had a little time to kill so I got a haircut. A number one. Real close. It's hot in Spain now. Also took a stroll to the Coahuila. Hadn't been there for a while. Who says a bad economy doesn't affect everyone?Even in a place where a man goes to find happiness. Even if it's momentarily.

It was around 11 o'clock and the place was just starting to wake up. But I noticed the mood was pretty drowsy. The street was dead. Even for a Thursday morning,it was dead.

A lively place the Coahuila was once,but now it was runnin' on empty. The girls leaned against the walls .They didn't make a move or give a look when I walked by. The bars were hallow halls. Didn't even here music coming out of the jukeboxes. No street musicians that I could see.

I talked to one of the girls on the corner that I've seen around . She told me many of the girls have gone back home for good. Business isn't what it used to be. That along with all the shootings. Like i said the 'ol Coahuila is winding down. It's like a fighter who has taken a good beating. The corner wants to throw in the towel.

As I walked back to pick up my painting,I wondered what is the world coming to? When the cantina is empty that means there is no one there to play the music.

Roger, your writing covers a lot more ground than Mexico. Thruout the world, it's seems there is no one there to play the music.

[Rick Farris]

]

Thanks Frank
Anthony got a ride to the Art Institue for Film Making in San Francisco, He makes films now. He's definitely got a passion for creating movies.

You need to introduce him to Rick.[/quote]

Tom
You're right. HEY RICK! If you're out there any ideas on what my grandson should be thinking?[/quote]

Personally, I think he needs to follow his dream and make films.
You can only learn so much in school.
You can be taught technicalities, but the best place to learn is on the set, in practical situations.
I wish the young man all the luck in the world. He must follow his own path.
The family has art running thru it's veins. You can see it in Roger, the grandkids.
If he devotes himself, the law of attraction will bring everything he needs.
When I'm working a film, and if he's in town and wants to check out what's happening, he's certainly welcome to join us.


-Rick Farris

[Rick Farris]

Mando Ramos

Very nice, Roger.

Thanks Rick
Mando Ramos is hard for me to paint. It's funny,but I remember his image better at the very end. I don't want to paint that right now even though Mando's face at the end said a lot.

I'm not an artist like you Rog, but I can appreciate how some images are harder to paint. I will say this, difficult or not, you captured Mando in this one. I knew who it was immedialty, I rarely have to look at the name below to identify your subject. Your painting captures far more than "a look". Sometimes they reveal individual complexities (related to the subject) that serve as a signature of your unique style. I hate to sound dramatic here, but your paintings reveal something far greater than an imagine, they tell a story.

-Rick

[bennie]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e6GjwPxtLVs

Jose Legra vs. Howard Winstone

Rog, this was a great find. Man, I love youtube. BTW, has anyone here ever seen that "sucking the swelling down" that Eddie Thomas performed at the end of round 4? I never have. Was it ever noted as effective? I could never see anyone performing that today with the communicable diseases so rampant. Eddie Thomas was old school. He brought world titles to Howard Winstone and Ken Buchanan and was one helluva fighter himself once.

Scartissue

You know that scene in the original Rocky where trainer "Mickey" cuts a swelling over Balboa's eye with a razor blade so that Rocky can see, Thomas had done exactly the same thing a few years earlier in the Buchanan-Laguna II scrap at MSG.

[kikibalt]

Baby Face Casanova, Featherweight
Circa 1969

[Rick Farris]

Baby Face Casanova, Featherweight
Circa 1969

Frank is that 1969 ?

[kikibalt]

Yes, Rick, it is...

[Expug]

Anyone see Ray Mercer knockout former UFC heavyweight champion Tim Sylvia ? It took nine seconds.
One overhand right and it was goodnight.
I know it happened days ago, but I just watched it. It really didnt take too much time out of my day to see the "fight".
There is a lesson there somewhere. That lesson is its not a good idea to walk right into a former world class heavyweight .
Even if hes 50 years old.
Thats the thing about most of the mma guys. Some are considered good boxers/strikers just because they have kayoed a few opponents. The reality is that stylisticly all they do is walk right into each other throwing bombs. Its a roll of the dice.Its just whoever gets there first kos the other guy.There are no feints, or subtelties in their boxing. That takes years to develop.
Sylvias boxing was on par with a novice amateur Chicago Golden Glover. Jab right hand. Jab right hand .Jab right hand.
Mercer moved lateraly and threw a right hand. No jab, no feint, nothing. He didnt need it. Boom. Looked like a tree falling.

[Rick Farris]

Anyone see Ray Mercer knockout former UFC heavyweight champion Tim Sylvia ? It took nine seconds.
One overhand right and it was goodnight.
I know it happened days ago, but I just watched it. It really didnt take too much time out of my day to see the "fight".
There is a lesson there somewhere. That lesson is its not a good idea to walk right into a former world class heavyweight .
Even if hes 50 years old.
Thats the thing about most of the mma guys. Some are considered good boxers/strikers just because they have kayoed a few opponents. The reality is that stylisticly all they do is walk right into each other throwing bombs. Its a roll of the dice.Its just whoever gets there first kos the other guy.There are no feints, or subtelties in their boxing. That takes years to develop.
Sylvias boxing was on par with a novice amateur Chicago Golden Glover. Jab right hand. Jab right hand .Jab right hand.
Mercer moved lateraly and threw a right hand. No jab, no feint, nothing. He didnt need it. Boom. Looked like a tree falling.

Thanks, Brian.

[dagosd2000]

ANOTHER TIME ANOTHER PLACE

Been to L.A. more in the last year than I'd been in the last twenty. Drove up there today to the L.A. County Museum of Art on Wilshire Boulevard. The wing with the paintings by Rembrandt was closed for remodeling. Went back along the Pacific Coast Highway. It's been so long everything was new and different. More crowded and built up. No more beach towns.

So I got a little nostalgic. Pining for the days when I was a lot younger.Things were more simple. More relaxed. Didn't have all this technology to speed things up.

Yeah,the old days were better. The kids today don't get it. We can't explain it to them so they can change it back to the way it once was.They like it the way it is.

I remember just after high school working at a place that sold chicken for take out called "Chicken A Go." Made a 1.75 an hour. Rented a house by the beach for 50 dollars a month. Man,I was clearing almost 300 a month. Gas was 25 cents a gallon. Hot dogs at Weinerschnitzel were a penny less than a dime. During the summer we had the beach to ourselves.

My boss at "Chicken A Go" was this Samoan dude we called Ed Pineapple. One night I come into work and he said that his parents were moving away from the beach and going back to American Samoa.
"My dad and mom say San Diego grow too fast. Beach too crowded. Not like before. No more peace and quiet", said the big Pacific Islander.

That was back in 1965. I think about life along the coast today. When I feel I'm lost in another world that's indifferent and foreign to to me,I think of what Ed Pineapple's parents said almost fifty years ago.

I guess this generation of young folk will think the same way fifty years from now. It's hard for me to put that together right now.