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I'd be able to finish my basement with the winnings on that one as well yancey.

I watched the Frazier-Foreman fight in Kingston for the umpteenth time. tonight on ESPN Classic Foreman would push Frazier back instead of using his jab; to great effect. He couldn't do that to Ali because Ali was too strong and didn't need to get as close. That was Frazier's undoing. I don't know how he counters that.

If you say so, Yance --- &, incidentally, I would wager on it

A fast-starting, all-time knockout artist with first-class finishing qualities against Frazier? I like the odds 8)

Too fast, too big a hitter, & too savage from the outset to allow Frazier any rhythm.

Goodnight, Irene wrote:If you say so, Yance --- &, incidentally, I would wager on it

A fast-starting, all-time knockout artist with first-class finishing qualities against Frazier? I like the odds 8)

Too fast, too big a hitter, & too savage from the outset to allow Frazier any rhythm.

That's Big George

Liston, as well, for mine.

Regarding Dempsey-Frazier, I sometimes get the feeling peoples' opinion hinges on whether they believe Dempsey's power is crippling enough to traumatise Frazier, since we know he always gets hit plenty.

I believe it is, & while I think a fight which went late favours Frazier, some people sorely under-estimate what a tough SOB Dempsey really was. He had a great jaw, strong recuperative abilities, & in the early going at least, I think he can offensively out-gun Frazier, whilst absorbing a fair chunk of punishment. I think he responds better to Frazier's offense moreso than vice-versa.

Outcome aside, there might very well be some glorious exchanges in that battle. Left hooks at twenty paces, gents ;)

ThatOne wrote:I watched the Frazier-Foreman fight in Kingston for the umpteenth time. tonight on ESPN Classic Foreman would push Frazier back instead of using his jab; to great effect. He couldn't do that to Ali because Ali was too strong and didn't need to get as close. That was Frazier's undoing. I don't know how he counters that.

"I don't know how he counters that."

Well, having a referee that would have the freaking balls to put a quick end to the push-offs would help.

Damn right it was Frazier's undoing.

He couldn't fight his fight with Foreman being allowed to push him off like he did.

Goodnight, Irene wrote:Regarding Dempsey-Frazier, I sometimes get the feeling peoples' opinion hinges on whether they believe Dempsey's power is crippling enough to traumatise Frazier, since we know he always gets hit plenty.

I believe it is, & while I think a fight which went late favours Frazier, some people sorely under-estimate what a tough SOB Dempsey really was. He had a great jaw, strong recuperative abilities, & in the early going at least, I think he can offensively out-gun Frazier, whilst absorbing a fair chunk of punishment. I think he responds better to Frazier's offense moreso than vice-versa.

Outcome aside, there might very well be some glorious exchanges in that battle. Left hooks at twenty paces, gents ;)

I think he would respond to Frazier's offense by being face down on the canvas in a senseless coma along about round 6.

Hence, the first sentence of my second paragraph. He couldn't do it to Bonavena, he couldn't do it to Quarry, & he wouldn't be doing it to Dempsey...

And alot of men that Dempsey could not do it too either..

Robinson wrote:And alot of men that Dempsey could not do it too either..

Few so hittable as Frazier.

I think Frazier at his best was a lot harder to land clean on, than what he
is given credit for. But he at the same time is not the most defensive master
ever to have graced the HW ring. His style and aggressiveness makes one
an easier target.

I think Flynn, Gibbons, Meehan, Miske were easier to hit than a peak Frazier.

I think Dempsey and Frazier match nicely, as I have said plenty of times, though
i favour Frazier.

I think Frazier, Dempsey and Marciano make some great pairings. The boxing brain
throbs at the idea as to how these matches would turn out.
Throw in an shape Qawi or Moore as a 'soft touch' for a nice four way round robin
and you have some exciting fights.

True enough. Marciano-Frazier'd be the pick of the bunch, if you were going to add any of those fights to a DVD collection.

Watch that one through your fingers

IMHO, the rematch with Norton was the biggest fight in Ali's career as evident by his preparation and the stakes. If he loses to Norton he doesn't get his rematch with Frazier and his bout with Foreman. Without the victory over Foreman Ali doesn't become a consensus top one to five heavyweight.

ThatOne wrote:IMHO, the rematch with Norton was the biggest fight in Ali's career as evident by his preparation and the stakes. If he loses to Norton he doesn't get his rematch with Frazier and his bout with Foreman. Without the victory over Foreman Ali doesn't become a consensus top one to five heavyweight.

Disagree that Norton II was the biggest fight of Ali's career.

The biggest fight in Ali's career occurred on 3/8/71.

Most boxing fans, even Ali ones, acknowledge that. I'm honestly surprised that you don't, ThatOne.

The fight where two great, undefeated heavyweight champions met at the point of time when both were nearest their respective peaks, with the whole world tuned in to the most important fight of the 20th century.

Oh, before I forget, the one where Ali's behind met MSQ canvas at about 80 mph, courtesy a Mr. Joe Frazier left hook.

yancey wrote:

ThatOne wrote:IMHO, the rematch with Norton was the biggest fight in Ali's career as evident by his preparation and the stakes. If he loses to Norton he doesn't get his rematch with Frazier and his bout with Foreman. Without the victory over Foreman Ali doesn't become a consensus top one to five heavyweight.

Disagree that Norton II was the biggest fight of Ali's career.

The biggest fight in Ali's career occurred on 3/8/71.

Most boxing fans, even Ali ones, acknowledge that. I'm honestly surprised that you don't, ThatOne.

The fight where two great, undefeated heavyweight champions met at the point of time when both were nearest their respective peaks, with the whole world tuned in to the most important fight of the 20th century, and the one where Joe Frazier prevailed.

It was also, arguably, the biggest fight in boxing history. Certainly there won't be anything bigger in the future.

yancey wrote:

ThatOne wrote:IMHO, the rematch with Norton was the biggest fight in Ali's career as evident by his preparation and the stakes. If he loses to Norton he doesn't get his rematch with Frazier and his bout with Foreman. Without the victory over Foreman Ali doesn't become a consensus top one to five heavyweight.

Disagree that Norton II was the biggest fight of Ali's career.

The biggest fight in Ali's career occurred on 3/8/71.

Most boxing fans, even Ali ones, acknowledge that. I'm honestly surprised that you don't, ThatOne.

The fight where two great, undefeated heavyweight champions met at the point of time when both were nearest their respective peaks, with the whole world tuned in to the most important fight of the 20th century.

Oh, before I forget, the one where Ali's behind met MSQ canvas at about 80 mph, courtesy a Mr. Joe Frazier left hook.

Out of respect to Joseph William Frazier I won't regale with you the damage Muhammad Ali inflicted on him.

In the scheme of things Ali Norton ll isn't a historic fight but the consequences for Ali were huge.

I lived those days as I believe you have. The loss to Frazier was huge but there was a belief among some that Frazier couldn't duplicate that feat and the fans were pining for a rematch. The loss to a unknown like Norton was shocking; absolutely shocking. He was a 7-1 underdog. If Ali would have lost the rematch he would have been consigned to second tier heavyweights and not the number one contender. Watch his countenance for the second Norton fight.It was a "must win" fight as was the second fight with Joe.

The Defining Fight of Ali's Career

granberry wrote:The Defining Fight of Ali's Career

Hey granberry, how do you like the way I exposed your perfidy, mendacity, and general lack of trustworthiness for all the world to see; making up quotes, attributing them to dead, famous people, and then denying the veracity of honest people when challenged ?

http://boxrec.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=59862

Scroll to the bottom. I destroyed your credibility if you had any to begin with.

Now , go cry to Anton or Buzz to lock this thread to spare you further embarrassment.

THATONE

More ad hominem from an Ali worshipper.

granberry wrote:More ad hominem from an Ali worshipper.

Falsus in unum, falsus in omnibus

Did you or did you not make up a quote, attribute it to Sports Illustrated, and then accuse an honest poster of making up a quote" ?

http://boxrec.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=59862 -THE EVIDENCE

If you or anybody can prove that isn't what occurred I'll never post here again.

And if I was caught in such an obvious and deliberate lie I would be too embarrased to ever post here again.

An Ali worshipper is never embarrassed.

LOL

granberry wrote:An Ali worshipper is never embarrassed.

LOL

So you are not going to admit I caught you in a lie.

Again >>>>>>>> http://boxrec.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=59862

Read Revelation 20:14-15 and learn what happens to unrepentant liars.

Ali worshipper TheOne clutters boxrec with his ad hominem off topic posts.

granberry wrote:Ali worshipper TheOne clutters boxrec with his ad hominem off topic posts.

If I said Jack Ruby killed Lee Harvey Oswald would that be an ad hominem attack on Jack Ruby?

You falsely attributed a quote to Sports Illustrated by Zora Folley questioning Muhammad Ali's power and then to add to your perfidy you accused an honest poster of fabricating quotes from the same magazine. It's all here:

http://boxrec.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=59862

If you admit you lied I will stop picking on you.