BoxRec

you have to admit that Bugner was a busy "bloke" in his first few years turning pro.

11 fights in 1968
11 fights in 1969
9 fights in 1970
7 fights in 1971.

Sean O'Grady also fought a lot of pushovers when he started out, building up an impressive record... That's a staple in this business unfortunately, but it doesn't make you a good fighter... Case in point Duane Bobick who went 38-0.... Fighting pushovers makes you a bad fighter because you get very bad defensive habits fighting punching bags who can't fight back.... The first time you fight a good fighter you start taking punches right away.... You take a beating or get KTFO....

I don't think Bug lost concentration in his debut.... His defense never changed.... He he tried to hide behind his gloves and took a shittload of punches... LA Times writer Jim Murray said "Bugner fights like somebody trying to hide under a bed."

Anybody who defends like that will take a million punches.... Bugner was a skinnier version of Andrew Golota.

Caractacus wrote: ↑26 Dec 2017, 20:28

Bugner didn't train or coach any of those kids.... There were a lot of expectant boys looking at each other awaiting some knowledge and they got nothing... Look at the way their hands were wrapped....atrocious.... If you're going to teach a large group anything about Boxing you don't jog with them.... go wading in a lake with them.... go sailing with them.... wrestle around on the grass with them.... or have them watch you workout.... That doesn't give them anything they don't already know.. This was not about coaching anyone. This was about a day with Joe Bugner and that's it.

But If you have a group of 20 or 30 or so kids -- you space them all out where they can all easily see you and show Them the differences between a good stance and a bad stance -- and all the reasons a bad stance is bad and a good stance is good... Then you quickly go around to each kid correcting the biggest flaws in their stances and giving them clear explanations so they might grasp something.. Then you go in front of the whole group and tell them the worst things you're seeing and why those things are so bad...

Then you demonstrate the most basic and efficient in-n-out and circle left and right footwork and run around to each one again before giving a summation tallying the worst things they're doing and how that gets them hit.

Then you quickly go through the jab, straight right and left hook because with those 3 weapons you can actually win a fight... You run around to everybody again correcting their worst flaws and summing up again... Then you go through basic feinting principles and basic blocking, parrying, slipping, ducking, and rolling technique before correcting them.

That all takes about 3 hours more or less - depending on how many kids you have... If they don't have the mental stamina for that they'll never be good anyway... Group lesson can't teach anybody anything anyway...

Boxing lessons have to be individual,,, It takes months for the most talented kids to master some basics... But some of the more intelligent kids in a group lesson will grasp important basic concepts and principles they'll hold on to... That is, if you have the personality and wit to command everybody's attention so they don't fall asleep .... not the Bug's forte.

here are Rounds One and Round Ten of Middleton vrs Bugner.
Bugner looked really uptight for some reason coming into this fight.
i think I read somewhere that it was in round three that Middleton landed the punch that broke Bugner's mandible .
check out the vicious looking punch at about 4:09 of this clip.

Middleton landed a great many vicious, loaded shots on Bugner.... Could have been any one of a number of them.

[
Here is a link to a newspaper article from December.1.1971 about the Middleton vrs Bugner' fight.

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=wd ... 2,62686&dq

The story was that Bugner had broken a small bone in his right foot in training just after signing the contract and just prior to the fight(with Ron Lyle).
He felt obliged to do it however because of the pressure not to have it canceled,
because of the venue in Las Vegas and for television already had it scheduled for live broadcast..
The cortizone injected into his foot before the fight made it lack any sensation and affected his mobility.

I think Bugner did allright considering he had fought this fight with a small broken bone in his right foot.He wasn't able to launch a really big right
like he did on Dino Denis anyway.

Caractacus wrote: ↑27 Dec 2017, 20:53 here are Rounds One and Round Ten of Middleton vrs Bugner.
Bugner looked really uptight for some reason coming into this fight.
i think I read somewhere that it was in round three that Middleton landed the punch that broke Bugner's mandible .
check out the vicious looking punch at about 4:09 of this clip.

Interestingly, I remember reading that the London Times had Bugner winning the Middleton fight by one point. As for Bugner's broken jaw, I'd be very surprised if it happened as early as the third round. I don't see how anyone could last seven rounds with a broken jaw.

It's too bad Bugner never fought a rematch with Middleton. That's especially so given that, after losing this fight in 1971, Bugner improved his game vastly in the next year.

For a good three years following this match, Middleton hovered around in Ring Magazine's top ten ratings. Bugner could have elevated his credibility and world ranking easily by beating Middleton in a return go sometime in 1973 or 1974. I wonder why that fight was never made.

Kalan wrote: ↑25 Dec 2017, 23:14

funso banjo baby wrote: ↑24 Dec 2017, 08:07 Bugner was a master defensive boxer

Is that a joke????

Bugner had an immobile head and couldn't slip punches well.... He didn't have a lot of musculature or definition on his abs, obliques, and lower back - so he didn't move well or quickly at the waist - and his butt, hinge, and upper thigh areas were weak so he didn't duck or roll punches well either... He was really soft and his stance was terrible... He was Corrie Sanders without the speed, punching power, or southpaw trickery... I don't know what his deal was... Maybe he had horrible coaching or he wasn't motivated.

I disagree with most of what you say. I think you must have been focusing only on Bugner's 1980s and 1990s comeback fights. By then, Bugner was heftier and slower. He was coming off of a layoff between 1977 and 1982, and I don't think he ever regained the reflexes that he'd had in his younger days.

Concerning Bugner's head movement, it was often superb. Watch Bugner's first fight against Ali (1973) for an example of what I mean. Bugner's head movement in Ali II (1975) was good too.

In his prime, Bugner was known for being pretty muscular. He was also known for having speedy, antelope-like foot movement. See Ali I and the 1973 Frazier fight for examples. Up through 1975 at least, Bugner's hand speed was quite impressive. Only in the 1980s did he exhibit signs of slowed down hands.

I do agree with you that Bugner showed many of Corrie Sander's technical flaws. It's also true that Bugner didn't punch his weight on most occasions.

Brutu wrote: ↑09 Feb 2013, 16:14 Here is a link to an article about Joe Bugner's career from a newspaper published in Kuala Lumpor,Malayasia.
The New Strait Times 27.June.1975.
It is the most in-depth article I have seen so far about Joe Bugner early boxing start anyway,
it also mentions his loss to John Cullen in the amateurs among other things.
it also has in it a rare (but blurry) action photo of Bugner vs Irish Tony Doyle.

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=5Y ... 8117845&dq


Also in that newspaper addition are a number of other articles about Muhammad Ali
and the upcoming bout.

Bump

Brutu wrote: ↑09 Feb 2013, 17:01 An interesting bit of info that I read in a newspaper article somewhere.
Originally Ali vs Bugner II for the heavyweight championship of the world,
was scheduled to take place in at Soldier's Field Chicago Illinois 08.June.1975.
But when they bumped the Ron Lyle fight up to May,
a second site for Ali vs Bugner II was proposed at the
Stamford Bridge Stadium in the London borough of Hammersmith and Fulham and home of the Chelsea Soccer Club
however of course at some point they finally decided the fight would take place in July in Southeast Asia in Malayasia.

somemore interesting info.

This originally had been a really informative and terrific thread in 2013 ,
that is until someone had decided to "vapourize' some of the posters who contributed to it.
(and all that time it had taken to be trying to find out some answers to some questions,
makes me feel ill and wonder about the future of "humanity" in general)

anyone know what the earliest filmed fight of Joe Bugner was
(either amateur or professional)?
I know he fought the preliminary to the Muhammad Ali vrs Jimmy Ellis fight.
Bugner came in to the outside arena with a Scottish bagpipes !

Caractacus wrote: ↑04 Sep 2025, 15:17 anyone know what the earliest filmed fight of Joe Bugner was
(either amateur or professional)?
I know he fought the preliminary to the Muhammad Ali vrs Jimmy Ellis fight.
Bugner came in to the outside arena with a Scottish bagpipes !

Are you sure about that??are you sure it wasn't on the Ali vs Mathis undercard? And Joe fought on TV regularly before this. The earliest I am aware of is his 3rd fight with Paul Brown.