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Re: The great non champions
Posted: 26 Mar 2021, 13:55
by Onetimeonly
elmersalsa wrote: ↑26 Mar 2021, 13:49
Onetimeonly wrote: ↑26 Mar 2021, 12:47
I wonder if gibbons will make the cut? Honestly, not getting into the order, Jackson is the only undeserving guy.
Jackson is right where he is. Tommy Gibbons is in. His brother Mike will be in. But, according to Boxrec posters, there are right now 22 guys better than Mike.
Re: The great non champions
Posted: 30 Mar 2021, 15:41
by elmersalsa
Onetimeonly wrote: ↑26 Mar 2021, 13:55
elmersalsa wrote: ↑26 Mar 2021, 13:49
Onetimeonly wrote: ↑26 Mar 2021, 12:47
I wonder if gibbons will make the cut? Honestly, not getting into the order, Jackson is the only undeserving guy.
Jackson is right where he is. Tommy Gibbons is in. His brother Mike will be in. But, according to Boxrec posters, there are right now 22 guys better than Mike.
You shouldn't be laughing.
Re: The great non champions
Posted: 30 Mar 2021, 15:46
by Onetimeonly
elmersalsa wrote: ↑30 Mar 2021, 15:41
Onetimeonly wrote: ↑26 Mar 2021, 13:55
elmersalsa wrote: ↑26 Mar 2021, 13:49
Jackson is right where he is. Tommy Gibbons is in. His brother Mike will be in. But, according to Boxrec posters, there are right now 22 guys better than Mike.
You shouldn't be laughing.
Stop being so funny. The only mention of Mike in this thread was 2 of us agreeing in the 5 range. That is until your buffoonish post above.
Re: The great non champions
Posted: 31 Mar 2021, 00:34
by elmersalsa
Well, so far we got:
1. Sam Langford
2. Charley Burley
3. Packey McFarland
4. Holman Williams
5. Jimmy Bivins
6. "Peerless" Jem Driscoll
7. Lloyd Marshall
8. Peter Jackson
9. Joe Jeannette
10. Billy Graham
11. Newsboy Brown
12. Billy Petrolle
13. Harry Wills
14. Sam McVaey
15. Tommy Gibbons
16. Owen Moran
17. Les Darcy
18. Pedro Montañez
19. Cocoa Kid
20. Jimmy Leto
21. Young Stribbling
22. Lew Tendler
23. Kid Norfolk
24. Mike Gibbons
25. George Godfrey
26. Lew Feldman
24 more to go!
Re: The great non champions
Posted: 31 Mar 2021, 09:04
by AntonioMartin
elmersalsa wrote: ↑31 Mar 2021, 00:34
Well, so far we got:
20. Jimmy Leto
Hmnn! I'd never heard of him!
One I heard a lot about back in the day on Ring Magazine was Mike Gibbons , although tbh, I think the literature of the 80s had him as a champ...
Nonetheless he should be in the IBHOF!
Re: The great non champions
Posted: 31 Mar 2021, 09:10
by Onetimeonly
He is in the hof.
Re: The great non champions
Posted: 31 Mar 2021, 17:04
by Cap
Although he did hold the British Empire title and the 'Colored Heavyweight Championship' Canadian Larry Gains never did get a crack at the world title and probably should have.
Re: The great non champions
Posted: 31 Mar 2021, 17:09
by dr_devious
Len Harvey and Jock McAvoy should already be in the list
Re: The great non champions
Posted: 31 Mar 2021, 19:07
by Onetimeonly
dr_devious wrote: ↑31 Mar 2021, 17:09
Len Harvey and Jock McAvoy should already be in the list
Both well superior to Peter Jackson.
Re: The great non champions
Posted: 31 Mar 2021, 22:14
by elmersalsa
Re: The great non champions
Posted: 02 Apr 2021, 10:47
by elmersalsa
# 27. Kid Tunero of Cuba
Re: The great non champions
Posted: 02 Apr 2021, 10:48
by elmersalsa
No objections!
Well, so far we got:
1. Sam Langford
2. Charley Burley
3. Packey McFarland
4. Holman Williams
5. Jimmy Bivins
6. "Peerless" Jem Driscoll
7. Lloyd Marshall
8. Peter Jackson
9. Joe Jeannette
10. Billy Graham
11. Newsboy Brown
12. Billy Petrolle
13. Harry Wills
14. Sam McVaey
15. Tommy Gibbons
16. Owen Moran
17. Les Darcy
18. Pedro Montañez
19. Cocoa Kid
20. Jimmy Leto
21. Young Stribbling
22. Lew Tendler
23. Kid Norfolk
24. Mike Gibbons
25. George Godfrey
26. Lew Feldman
27. Kid Tunero
23 more to go!
Re: The great non champions
Posted: 02 Apr 2021, 15:34
by Ambling Alp II
Strong objection to Kid Tunero. He isn't even close.
Re: The great non champions
Posted: 02 Apr 2021, 17:07
by tiny_acres
Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑02 Apr 2021, 15:34
Strong objection to Kid Tunero. He isn't even close.
I agree. Not even close to making the list
Re: The great non champions
Posted: 02 Apr 2021, 18:08
by Onetimeonly
tiny_acres wrote: ↑02 Apr 2021, 17:07
Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑02 Apr 2021, 15:34
Strong objection to Kid Tunero. He isn't even close.
I agree. Not even close to making the list
X3
That might push him back 2 spots.
Re: The great non champions
Posted: 02 Apr 2021, 18:23
by elmersalsa
Onetimeonly wrote: ↑02 Apr 2021, 18:08
tiny_acres wrote: ↑02 Apr 2021, 17:07
Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑02 Apr 2021, 15:34
Strong objection to Kid Tunero. He isn't even close.
I agree. Not even close to making the list
X3
That might push him back 2 spots.
Okay, why? He beat 4 world champions and 4 hall of famers.
Who you think we should put before him?
Re: The great non champions
Posted: 02 Apr 2021, 19:18
by Onetimeonly
Booker works.
Re: The great non champions
Posted: 03 Apr 2021, 00:50
by elmersalsa
You do like Eddie Booker over Kid Tunero?
Tunero beat the great Ezzard Charles. He also beat Marcel Thil, Holman Williams, and Ken Overlin. All of them in the hall of fame.
Probably Booker had better record.
Let's review Booker's career. Shall we?
Re: The great non champions
Posted: 03 Apr 2021, 13:09
by Ambling Alp II
Please don't. We can all look it up.
Tunero did beat 4 Hall of Famers. However, not all Hall of Famers are equal. Thil and Overlin were not exactly cream of the cop Hal of Famers.
Charles had not even been a pro for two years.
He also had a ton of losses.
Was he really better than say Ernie Schaaf? Schaaf beat four Hall of Famers as well.
I would put Booker in next. We are starting to the point where the rest of the guys are not great; just very good. There are tons of relatively even guys that you could go with. Off of the top of my head - Georgie Abrams. He beat Brouillard, Leto, Cocoa Kid, and had a draw with Burley. Lost a disputed decision to a prime Ray Robinson.
Spider Webb, Cocoa Kid, are a couple more. Then you have very good but not great heavyweights like Tom Sharkey, Billy Miske, Earnie Shavers, Jerry Quarry etc.
Re: The great non champions
Posted: 03 Apr 2021, 13:33
by elmersalsa
Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑03 Apr 2021, 13:09
Please don't. We can all look it up.
Tunero did beat 4 Hall of Famers. However, not all Hall of Famers are equal. Thil and Overlin were not exactly cream of the cop Hal of Famers.
Charles had not even been a pro for two years.
He also had a ton of losses.
Was he really better than say Ernie Schaaf? Schaaf beat four Hall of Famers as well.
I would put Booker in next. We are starting to the point where the rest of the guys are not great; just very good. There are tons of relatively even guys that you could go with. Off of the top of my head - Georgie Abrams. He beat Brouillard, Leto, Cocoa Kid, and had a draw with Burley. Lost a disputed decision to a prime Ray Robinson.
Spider Webb, Cocoa Kid, are a couple more. Then you have very good but not great heavyweights like Tom Sharkey, Billy Miske, Earnie Shavers, Jerry Quarry etc.
Good points. But, then guys like Billy Miske, Earnie Shavers, Jerry Quarry for example, cannot match Kid Tunero's accomplishments.
Let's see about Ernie Schaaf and Tom Sharkey if they were really better than the Cuban.
Re: The great non champions
Posted: 03 Apr 2021, 13:58
by elmersalsa
Eddie Booker at #27? I think is a great choice. How about that?
Re: The great non champions
Posted: 03 Apr 2021, 14:00
by elmersalsa
elmersalsa wrote: ↑02 Apr 2021, 10:48
Well, so far we got:
1. Sam Langford
2. Charley Burley
3. Packey McFarland
4. Holman Williams
5. Jimmy Bivins
6. "Peerless" Jem Driscoll
7. Lloyd Marshall
8. Peter Jackson
9. Joe Jeannette
10. Billy Graham
11. Newsboy Brown
12. Billy Petrolle
13. Harry Wills
14. Sam McVaey
15. Tommy Gibbons
16. Owen Moran
17. Les Darcy
18. Pedro Montañez
19. Cocoa Kid
20. Jimmy Leto
21. Young Stribbling
22. Lew Tendler
23. Kid Norfolk
24. Mike Gibbons
25. George Godfrey
26. Lew Feldman
27. Eddie Booker
23 more to go!
Re: The great non champions
Posted: 03 Apr 2021, 14:01
by elmersalsa
Well, so far we got:
1. Sam Langford
2. Charley Burley
3. Packey McFarland
4. Holman Williams
5. Jimmy Bivins
6. "Peerless" Jem Driscoll
7. Lloyd Marshall
8. Peter Jackson
9. Joe Jeannette
10. Billy Graham
11. Newsboy Brown
12. Billy Petrolle
13. Harry Wills
14. Sam McVaey
15. Tommy Gibbons
16. Owen Moran
17. Les Darcy
18. Pedro Montañez
19. Cocoa Kid
20. Jimmy Leto
21. Young Stribbling
22. Lew Tendler
23. Kid Norfolk
24. Mike Gibbons
25. George Godfrey
26. Lew Feldman
27. Eddie Booker
23 more to go?
Re: The great non champions
Posted: 03 Apr 2021, 14:12
by elmersalsa
Eddie Booker. Indeed, a very good contender. One of the members of th Black Murderers' Row.
Beat 3 hall of famers:
Archie Moore
Holman Williams
Lloyd Marshall
Albeit, he could not beat Williams and Moore in his two tries with them, but avenged his losses in rematches. Retired because of eye injury.
He was better than Kid Tunero.
Re: The great non champions
Posted: 03 Apr 2021, 14:17
by kasimirkid
IMO, the most laughable rating is Mike Gibbons at 22-24. He deserves to be placed somewhere in the top 10 at a minimum, probably more like the top 5.
