BoxRec

maverick23 wrote: ↑02 Nov 2022, 15:09

Bandog wrote: ↑02 Nov 2022, 14:51

maverick23 wrote: ↑02 Nov 2022, 12:59

It shouldn’t. Having a promoter will help get a better deal but, if what Crawford’s saying is true, it’s perfectly reasonable to have a say on what big expenses there are.

The thing is, he wanted full control to approve all expenses. Something he admitted he never did or could do with TR. It's your promoter that gives guarantees. PBC to give him guaranteed money was not going to happen.

He didn’t have to get involved with expenses with top Rank because he was paid a guarantee so he didn’t have an incentive to do so.

It’s also not your promoter that gives guarantees. Guarantees are given to 99% of boxers - whether home or away fighters. They’re also commonly given in PPVs (sometimes with an upside) to away fighters.

Boxing history has examples where promoters (particularly Don King and recently with the McGuigan family) really take the piss with expenses so Crawford has every right to get involved with that if he’s not making a guarantee.

The only way around it would be to agree them in advance. I.E. $2m max budget on the undercard, etc etc.

Regardless, I fault both guys for not getting it done for the fans. I hope both of their next fights fail miserably.

Bandog wrote: ↑02 Nov 2022, 19:15

maverick23 wrote: ↑02 Nov 2022, 15:09

Bandog wrote: ↑02 Nov 2022, 14:51

The thing is, he wanted full control to approve all expenses. Something he admitted he never did or could do with TR. It's your promoter that gives guarantees. PBC to give him guaranteed money was not going to happen.

He didn’t have to get involved with expenses with top Rank because he was paid a guarantee so he didn’t have an incentive to do so.

It’s also not your promoter that gives guarantees. Guarantees are given to 99% of boxers - whether home or away fighters. They’re also commonly given in PPVs (sometimes with an upside) to away fighters.

Boxing history has examples where promoters (particularly Don King and recently with the McGuigan family) really take the piss with expenses so Crawford has every right to get involved with that if he’s not making a guarantee.

The only way around it would be to agree them in advance. I.E. $2m max budget on the undercard, etc etc.

Regardless, I fault both guys for not getting it done for the fans. I hope both of their next fights fail miserably.

I think both fighters should take responsibility but for me PBC/Al need to do more to deliver the fight for their client in Spence. I think it’s pretty clear he wants it. Same for Crawford.

PBC have struggled putting together big fights this year. There’s no network issue with these guys, there isn’t an issue having to satisfy another promoter. They’ve got 2 guys who probably overvalue themselves. Give them relatively modest guarantees, a % of the PPV and back end and be open about large expenses. They shouldn’t have anything to hide.

Get ur popcorn!

maverick23 wrote: ↑02 Nov 2022, 15:09

Bandog wrote: ↑02 Nov 2022, 14:51

maverick23 wrote: ↑02 Nov 2022, 12:59

It shouldn’t. Having a promoter will help get a better deal but, if what Crawford’s saying is true, it’s perfectly reasonable to have a say on what big expenses there are.

The thing is, he wanted full control to approve all expenses. Something he admitted he never did or could do with TR. It's your promoter that gives guarantees. PBC to give him guaranteed money was not going to happen.

He didn’t have to get involved with expenses with top Rank because he was paid a guarantee so he didn’t have an incentive to do so.

It’s also not your promoter that gives guarantees. Guarantees are given to 99% of boxers - whether home or away fighters. They’re also commonly given in PPVs (sometimes with an upside) to away fighters.

Crawford: I Didn't Ask Arum For Transparency Because I Had Guarantee For Every Fight With Him

“A lot of people say, ‘Well, did he ask to see Bob Arum’s books? Did he ask for transparency with Bob Arum?’ No, I didn’t,” Crawford stated during a 20-minute session streamed on Instagram Live. “You know why? A lot of y’all probably don’t even know why. But I was signed to Bob Arum. I wasn’t my own boss. I was getting a guarantee on every single fight that I fought for Bob Arum and Top Rank. That’s the difference. That’s the difference, you guys. So, if you guys can’t understand that, then I don’t know what to tell you. I don’t know what to tell you. You know?”

“I never heard of a fighter ever taking zero guarantee in a fight,” Crawford said. “I never heard of a fighter of a four-rounder taking zero percent of a guarantee. That is something that’s new to me, but that’s something that I was willing to do to make this fight happen. You know? A lotta people, you know, they say, ‘Oh well, Terence, you ducked.’ Or, ‘Terence, you did this and you didn’t wanna fight Spence.’ I’m the only one that was taking all the risks. You know? I told him, ‘All right, cool, I’ll take no guarantee. I’ll take, you know what I mean, the less end of the money. You know, whatever it is you want, I’ll take it because that’s how much confidence I got that I’m gonna beat that man. That’s how much confidence I got that I’m gonna beat that man.’

“So, you know, even though I knew I was getting f----- in the long run, I just, you know, wanted a little transparency. I said, ‘OK, if I’m gonna bet on myself, and I’m gonna go against all the odds, then I want a, you know what I mean, a little transparency.’ You know, I wanna be able to write off on, you know, things that’s gonna affect my check. Of course, I wanna see if the numbers add up to what they tellin’ me.”

All you see is the 'N' word and "YA'LL"

Ya'll this and ya'll that..

Overused Merican word.

So, boxing in '22 is twitor wars.

Did Crawford graduate high school? His Tweets are almost illegible.

Who needs High School, when you have millions in the bank?

Fcukin half wits. Just go and get knocked out by boots already.

Announcement coming soon. Neither fcuker fighting boots or each other.

Two big dopey children fighting over the 0's on their checks.

There was a time when I was ok with spending the $80 or so to see Spence vs Crawford.
Was actually looking forward to it.

Now that fight has moved past its expiration date
.
I waited through numerous negotiations as years came and went to finally pay for Mayweather vs Pacquiao.
Never again.
I don't expect these highly anticipated fights to happen inside of 6 months after first becoming a fight the fans are demanding but it's not unreasonable to expect the two sides to reach a deal within two years and the fight happens 3 or 4 months afterwards.

Crawford vs Spence has "marinated" too long.
I will not buy it, I will not stream it and I hope it is an absolute financial disaster if it ever does happen.

Garcia vs Davis is currently on the clock.
If it happens in 2023 it gets my money.

Perseus wrote: ↑04 Nov 2022, 13:45 There was a time when I was ok with spending the $80 or so to see Spence vs Crawford.
Was actually looking forward to it.

Now that fight has moved past its expiration date
.
I waited through numerous negotiations as years came and went to finally pay for Mayweather vs Pacquiao.
Never again.
I don't expect these highly anticipated fights to happen inside of 6 months after first becoming a fight the fans are demanding but it's not unreasonable to expect the two sides to reach a deal within two years and the fight happens 3 or 4 months afterwards.

Crawford vs Spence has "marinated" too long.
I will not buy it, I will not stream it and I hope it is an absolute financial disaster if it ever does happen.

Garcia vs Davis is currently on the clock.
If it happens in 2023 it gets my money.

Nicely put
Stuff them. Greedy bastards think they are worth way more than two non heavyweight inactive princesses actually are.
I was going to pay, now I'm not.
Waiting this long, may as well avoid spoilers and watch it a few days later and keep my money.

Ruthless-RKO wrote: ↑03 Nov 2022, 09:29 All you see is the 'N' word and "YA'LL"

Ya'll this and ya'll that..

Overused Merican word.

Exactly.

They're great fighters but just so frightfully dull.

They need to shut up and just fight.

Crawford: I Really Don't Think It'll Damage My Legacy If Spence Fight Doesn't Happen

“Well, I think it’s a great fight for both our legacies and for boxing as a whole,” Crawford told host Max Kellerman. “But at the same time, you know, I think, you know, a lotta people is reaching when they say it’s gonna damage my legacy. You know, I’m a three-weight world champion, I’m a former undisputed world champion. You know, I have accomplished a lot in boxing. You know, so I really don’t think it’ll damage my legacy. You know, it’ll just go down as one of the biggest fights that never happened.”

“When you look back at, you know, ‘Sugar’ Ray Leonard versus Aaron Pryor,” Crawford said, “they never fought each other and, you know, both of them is still considered two of the greatest fighters that ever fought.”

“By no means am I not saying that it’s not important to get that fight,” Crawford said. “You know, like I been saying for years, that’s the fight that I want. That’s the fight that I been trying to secure. That’s the fight that fans wanna see. You know, but at some point, you know, all you could do is so much. I been doing all that I can to try to get that fight, and I’m still the one to be blamed for not making the fight happen. You know, so I’m gonna continue to try to, you know, get that fight done and, you know, sealed, so everybody can see who the best fighter in the world is. You know, that’s all I could do. That’s all I could do.”

Hearn Says He Has 'Bit of Sympathy' For Haymon in Spence-Crawford Negotiations

“I have a little bit of sympathy for Al in the Spence-Crawford fight, because the fight is not as big as people think it is,” Hearn told FightHubTV. “And I’ve said this before, and I’ve had criticism for this. You have to understand, whatever you think of me, whatever you think of Al Haymon, we do know the business and the numbers like the back of our hand. We do this all the time. I can’t have an argument with someone on Twitter who tells me Spence-Crawford does a million buys, yet we know that if you’re setting a line on a guarantee you set that line at 350 or 400,000 buys. If I’m putting my money up, that’s where I’m comfortable with the line.”

“That doesn’t mean that’s the number that Al’s comfortable with but ultimately when a fight’s big enough, the fighters don’t really need a guarantee, and they don’t really ask for one,” Hearn said. “I go back to Fury against AJ. There was no guarantee. It was just all the money in the pot. Everyone knows how big that fight is. It’s not a case of ‘oh it might do this.’ We all know how big it is. But we just don’t know with Spence-Crawford. It’s a tremendous fight. It could do 700 or 800,000 buys. But what if it does 300 (thousand)? Who foots the bill? And obviously Al Haymon wasn’t prepared to foot the bill.”

Ruthless-RKO wrote: ↑16 Nov 2022, 09:51 Hearn Says He Has 'Bit of Sympathy' For Haymon in Spence-Crawford Negotiations

“I have a little bit of sympathy for Al in the Spence-Crawford fight, because the fight is not as big as people think it is,” Hearn told FightHubTV. “And I’ve said this before, and I’ve had criticism for this. You have to understand, whatever you think of me, whatever you think of Al Haymon, we do know the business and the numbers like the back of our hand. We do this all the time. I can’t have an argument with someone on Twitter who tells me Spence-Crawford does a million buys, yet we know that if you’re setting a line on a guarantee you set that line at 350 or 400,000 buys. If I’m putting my money up, that’s where I’m comfortable with the line.”

“That doesn’t mean that’s the number that Al’s comfortable with but ultimately when a fight’s big enough, the fighters don’t really need a guarantee, and they don’t really ask for one,” Hearn said. “I go back to Fury against AJ. There was no guarantee. It was just all the money in the pot. Everyone knows how big that fight is. It’s not a case of ‘oh it might do this.’ We all know how big it is. But we just don’t know with Spence-Crawford. It’s a tremendous fight. It could do 700 or 800,000 buys. But what if it does 300 (thousand)? Who foots the bill? And obviously Al Haymon wasn’t prepared to foot the bill.”

Eddie talks a lot of sense there.

keithmoonhangover wrote: ↑16 Nov 2022, 12:21

Ruthless-RKO wrote: ↑16 Nov 2022, 09:51 Hearn Says He Has 'Bit of Sympathy' For Haymon in Spence-Crawford Negotiations

“I have a little bit of sympathy for Al in the Spence-Crawford fight, because the fight is not as big as people think it is,” Hearn told FightHubTV. “And I’ve said this before, and I’ve had criticism for this. You have to understand, whatever you think of me, whatever you think of Al Haymon, we do know the business and the numbers like the back of our hand. We do this all the time. I can’t have an argument with someone on Twitter who tells me Spence-Crawford does a million buys, yet we know that if you’re setting a line on a guarantee you set that line at 350 or 400,000 buys. If I’m putting my money up, that’s where I’m comfortable with the line.”

“That doesn’t mean that’s the number that Al’s comfortable with but ultimately when a fight’s big enough, the fighters don’t really need a guarantee, and they don’t really ask for one,” Hearn said. “I go back to Fury against AJ. There was no guarantee. It was just all the money in the pot. Everyone knows how big that fight is. It’s not a case of ‘oh it might do this.’ We all know how big it is. But we just don’t know with Spence-Crawford. It’s a tremendous fight. It could do 700 or 800,000 buys. But what if it does 300 (thousand)? Who foots the bill? And obviously Al Haymon wasn’t prepared to foot the bill.”

Eddie talks a lot of sense there.

Yes, but who's going to explain the economics to the boxers?

Maybe a better system is just to do the cut percentage wise.

No guarantees, just the percentage of what the fight makes.

Problem is that trust seems to be pretty thin on the ground these days.

A far cry from the times when Don King could handover a suitcase of banknotes and get a signature there and then.

These guys are not high profile fighters, so nobody is sure that they would draw big numbers to at least get the investment back. Thats why the fighters ask for big guarantee purses to get paid. Its like a big solid insurance for the fighters.

The question is who would take the risk to put that kind of money to ensure those big purses of the fighters, promotion expenses and so many other expenses ? ?

On the other hand if they'd make Garcia vs Tank fight then probably they would find investors to risk their money.

keithmoonhangover wrote: ↑16 Nov 2022, 12:21

Ruthless-RKO wrote: ↑16 Nov 2022, 09:51 Hearn Says He Has 'Bit of Sympathy' For Haymon in Spence-Crawford Negotiations

“I have a little bit of sympathy for Al in the Spence-Crawford fight, because the fight is not as big as people think it is,” Hearn told FightHubTV. “And I’ve said this before, and I’ve had criticism for this. You have to understand, whatever you think of me, whatever you think of Al Haymon, we do know the business and the numbers like the back of our hand. We do this all the time. I can’t have an argument with someone on Twitter who tells me Spence-Crawford does a million buys, yet we know that if you’re setting a line on a guarantee you set that line at 350 or 400,000 buys. If I’m putting my money up, that’s where I’m comfortable with the line.”

“That doesn’t mean that’s the number that Al’s comfortable with but ultimately when a fight’s big enough, the fighters don’t really need a guarantee, and they don’t really ask for one,” Hearn said. “I go back to Fury against AJ. There was no guarantee. It was just all the money in the pot. Everyone knows how big that fight is. It’s not a case of ‘oh it might do this.’ We all know how big it is. But we just don’t know with Spence-Crawford. It’s a tremendous fight. It could do 700 or 800,000 buys. But what if it does 300 (thousand)? Who foots the bill? And obviously Al Haymon wasn’t prepared to foot the bill.”

Eddie talks a lot of sense there.

Finally, an adult in the room speaks up. I've been saying it from the start. Crawford and Spence Jr. are not draws. This would do 300k at best, and I'd say without Haymon mucking up the numbers, closer to 150K. These guys think they are Manny and Floyd incarnate, but no one is losing sleep if this fight doesn't get made.

Mexi-Box wrote: ↑17 Nov 2022, 05:24

keithmoonhangover wrote: ↑16 Nov 2022, 12:21

Ruthless-RKO wrote: ↑16 Nov 2022, 09:51 Hearn Says He Has 'Bit of Sympathy' For Haymon in Spence-Crawford Negotiations

“I have a little bit of sympathy for Al in the Spence-Crawford fight, because the fight is not as big as people think it is,” Hearn told FightHubTV. “And I’ve said this before, and I’ve had criticism for this. You have to understand, whatever you think of me, whatever you think of Al Haymon, we do know the business and the numbers like the back of our hand. We do this all the time. I can’t have an argument with someone on Twitter who tells me Spence-Crawford does a million buys, yet we know that if you’re setting a line on a guarantee you set that line at 350 or 400,000 buys. If I’m putting my money up, that’s where I’m comfortable with the line.”

“That doesn’t mean that’s the number that Al’s comfortable with but ultimately when a fight’s big enough, the fighters don’t really need a guarantee, and they don’t really ask for one,” Hearn said. “I go back to Fury against AJ. There was no guarantee. It was just all the money in the pot. Everyone knows how big that fight is. It’s not a case of ‘oh it might do this.’ We all know how big it is. But we just don’t know with Spence-Crawford. It’s a tremendous fight. It could do 700 or 800,000 buys. But what if it does 300 (thousand)? Who foots the bill? And obviously Al Haymon wasn’t prepared to foot the bill.”

Eddie talks a lot of sense there.

Finally, an adult in the room speaks up. I've been saying it from the start. Crawford and Spence Jr. are not draws. This would do 300k at best, and I'd say without Haymon mucking up the numbers, closer to 150K. These guys think they are Manny and Floyd incarnate, but no one is losing sleep if this fight doesn't get made.

I had to laugh at Crawford talking about legal action against Bob Arum for not promoting him right. He's an excellent boxer, but he's not box office.

It won't happen, but the best thing they could do was appear on a double bill together to raise awareness and promote their fight.