BoxRec

Zhang seems to have that comeback George Foreman, lumbering heavy-hands. Probably quite painful to be in the ring with, even if he doesn’t look so deadly to the tv audience.

Kilburn wrote: ↑16 Sep 2023, 09:35 Another (slight) plus for Juggernaut is that the ref will be all too aware that Joyce didn’t suffer any facial fractures last time, so may be inclined to give him more of a chance to stay in the fight, should the eye swell up again.

The referee/doctors immediate concern will be if he can see out of the eye rather than if it's a fracture there.

I like Joyce, he seems a no nonsense type of guy. He hasn't had any favours from fWank.

tonyevs wrote: ↑16 Sep 2023, 13:58

Kilburn wrote: ↑16 Sep 2023, 09:35 Another (slight) plus for Juggernaut is that the ref will be all too aware that Joyce didn’t suffer any facial fractures last time, so may be inclined to give him more of a chance to stay in the fight, should the eye swell up again.

The referee/doctors immediate concern will be if he can see out of the eye rather than if it's a fracture there.

I like Joyce, he seems a no nonsense type of guy. He hasn't had any favours from fWank.

100%. Frank did not want him to beat DDD. And DDD carried on pushing DDD after. Do you think JJ is with FW as he is paid really well? He has never seemed to be massively backed by him. I thought he'd leave Sjam and FW and go to Sam Jones and them MR.

tonyevs wrote: ↑16 Sep 2023, 13:58

Kilburn wrote: ↑16 Sep 2023, 09:35 Another (slight) plus for Juggernaut is that the ref will be all too aware that Joyce didn’t suffer any facial fractures last time, so may be inclined to give him more of a chance to stay in the fight, should the eye swell up again.

The referee/doctors immediate concern will be if he can see out of the eye rather than if it's a fracture there.

I like Joyce, he seems a no nonsense type of guy. He hasn't had any favours from fWank.

I thought Joyce could still see out of the eye last time? Maybe I’ve recalled that wrong.

The lack of a fracture in their last fight may well have zero bearing on the refs decision next weekend, but it’s something he will be aware of at least.

I’m prepared to clutch at anything.

Kilburn wrote: ↑16 Sep 2023, 09:00

Frostieballs wrote: ↑16 Sep 2023, 06:48

Kilburn wrote: ↑16 Sep 2023, 05:57 It does have a look of one of the those repeat results, due to Joyce, for all his determination, perhaps not being able to alter the pattern of the fight in the first half.

But on the plus side, eye damage aside Joyce was nowhere near beaten last time. And Zhang has clear weaknesses himself.

It’s on Joe to come up with something else, subtle or otherwise. Can he do it? I can’t wait to find out.

The eye damage came because he was solidly beaten. It wasn’t a freak clash of heads. Joyce isn’t vulnerable there like a Hatton situation.

Unless he changes something, the same thing will happen. The damage may come out in a different place, but it will come out somewhere if you are outboxed liked that - particularly if you have a decent chin.

Solidly beaten over the 6 rounds that took place, but eye damage aside, Joyce almost certainly had another 6 rounds in him. This isn’t insignificant when weighing up what might happen in a rematch.

But yes it goes without saying, Joyce can’t just show up and do the same thing again.

I just think that’s a bit like saying he would have another six rounds in him if he hadn’t of been knocked out.

As you can tell it’s a bit of bugbear of mine that people say Joyce only lost because of the eye! I think he lost because he was soundly outboxed!

Frostieballs wrote: ↑16 Sep 2023, 15:58

Kilburn wrote: ↑16 Sep 2023, 09:00

Frostieballs wrote: ↑16 Sep 2023, 06:48

The eye damage came because he was solidly beaten. It wasn’t a freak clash of heads. Joyce isn’t vulnerable there like a Hatton situation.

Unless he changes something, the same thing will happen. The damage may come out in a different place, but it will come out somewhere if you are outboxed liked that - particularly if you have a decent chin.

Solidly beaten over the 6 rounds that took place, but eye damage aside, Joyce almost certainly had another 6 rounds in him. This isn’t insignificant when weighing up what might happen in a rematch.

But yes it goes without saying, Joyce can’t just show up and do the same thing again.

I just think that’s a bit like saying he would have another six rounds in him if he hadn’t of been knocked out.

As you can tell it’s a bit of bugbear of mine that people say Joyce only lost because of the eye! I think he lost because he was soundly outboxed!

I don't think he was. Credit to him for stepping into rematch straight away, I think Joyce come in 2 stone heavier, breaks Zhang who gasses and gets sparked.

Is it too late for Joyce to learn how to duck?

SeanBrennan wrote: ↑16 Sep 2023, 16:03

Frostieballs wrote: ↑16 Sep 2023, 15:58

Kilburn wrote: ↑16 Sep 2023, 09:00

Solidly beaten over the 6 rounds that took place, but eye damage aside, Joyce almost certainly had another 6 rounds in him. This isn’t insignificant when weighing up what might happen in a rematch.

But yes it goes without saying, Joyce can’t just show up and do the same thing again.

I just think that’s a bit like saying he would have another six rounds in him if he hadn’t of been knocked out.

As you can tell it’s a bit of bugbear of mine that people say Joyce only lost because of the eye! I think he lost because he was soundly outboxed!

I don't think he was. Credit to him for stepping into rematch straight away, I think Joyce come in 2 stone heavier, breaks Zhang who gasses and gets sparked.

Think we watched a different fight mate :-)

Do you think the eye damage was just from one or two blows?

jwfg wrote: ↑16 Sep 2023, 16:16 Is it too late for Joyce to learn how to duck?

he does know how to, he just chooses not to when he doesn't respect power.

Frostieballs wrote: ↑16 Sep 2023, 15:58

Kilburn wrote: ↑16 Sep 2023, 09:00

Frostieballs wrote: ↑16 Sep 2023, 06:48

The eye damage came because he was solidly beaten. It wasn’t a freak clash of heads. Joyce isn’t vulnerable there like a Hatton situation.

Unless he changes something, the same thing will happen. The damage may come out in a different place, but it will come out somewhere if you are outboxed liked that - particularly if you have a decent chin.

Solidly beaten over the 6 rounds that took place, but eye damage aside, Joyce almost certainly had another 6 rounds in him. This isn’t insignificant when weighing up what might happen in a rematch.

But yes it goes without saying, Joyce can’t just show up and do the same thing again.

I just think that’s a bit like saying he would have another six rounds in him if he hadn’t of been knocked out.

As you can tell it’s a bit of bugbear of mine that people say Joyce only lost because of the eye! I think he lost because he was soundly outboxed!

The reason it comes up, clearly, is because Joyce could have continued last time. He had no bone fractures and could (as I recall) still see out of the eye. Zhang’s work rate had significantly dropped off also. The ref took the decision to stop the fight at that point, others refs may not have.

When a boxer is absolutely fooked either from a neurological or cardio perspective (or both) there is no discretion, the fight has to be stopped. This isn’t what happened with Joyce, and it’s why the defeat is not so conclusive.

Fair, but not conclusive.

SeanBrennan wrote: ↑16 Sep 2023, 16:18

jwfg wrote: ↑16 Sep 2023, 16:16 Is it too late for Joyce to learn how to duck?

he does know how to, he just chooses not to when he doesn't respect power.

You're saying he didn't duck because he didn't respect Zhang's power, even though he was repeatedly slammed in the face really hard?

jwfg wrote: ↑16 Sep 2023, 16:27

SeanBrennan wrote: ↑16 Sep 2023, 16:18

jwfg wrote: ↑16 Sep 2023, 16:16 Is it too late for Joyce to learn how to duck?

he does know how to, he just chooses not to when he doesn't respect power.

You're saying he didn't duck because he didn't respect Zhang's power, even though he was repeatedly slammed in the face really hard?

yes. He was never in trouble re stoppage, only ref wokery

SeanBrennan wrote: ↑16 Sep 2023, 17:14 He was never in trouble

His braincells were.

joyce was staggered in one of the first few rounds

margaret thatcher wrote: ↑16 Sep 2023, 17:31 joyce was staggered in one of the first few rounds

He never went down though, and will use his weight in next fight to wear down old man Zhang

never went down, but maybe that, and his badly damaged eye, shouldve given him a bit of respect for the power

SeanBrennan wrote: ↑16 Sep 2023, 17:37

margaret thatcher wrote: ↑16 Sep 2023, 17:31 joyce was staggered in one of the first few rounds

He never went down though, and will use his weight in next fight to wear down old man Zhang

If Joyce doesn’t lean all over Zhang first few rounds he is an idiot. I mean that’s not all he should do but if they tie up lean and wrestle absolut maxxxx, cop warnings, even cop a point just gas zhang.

I don’t think the cards matter here, if Joyce can wear Zhang down there is no way I can see Zhang surviving Joyce from rounds 8-12. Obviously Joyce can still get dinged though.

Kilburn wrote: ↑16 Sep 2023, 16:26

Frostieballs wrote: ↑16 Sep 2023, 15:58

Kilburn wrote: ↑16 Sep 2023, 09:00

Solidly beaten over the 6 rounds that took place, but eye damage aside, Joyce almost certainly had another 6 rounds in him. This isn’t insignificant when weighing up what might happen in a rematch.

But yes it goes without saying, Joyce can’t just show up and do the same thing again.

I just think that’s a bit like saying he would have another six rounds in him if he hadn’t of been knocked out.

As you can tell it’s a bit of bugbear of mine that people say Joyce only lost because of the eye! I think he lost because he was soundly outboxed!

The reason it comes up, clearly, is because Joyce could have continued last time. He had no bone fractures and could (as I recall) still see out of the eye. Zhang’s work rate had significantly dropped off also. The ref took the decision to stop the fight at that point, others refs may not have.

When a boxer is absolutely fooked either from a neurological or cardio perspective (or both) there is no discretion, the fight has to be stopped. This isn’t what happened with Joyce, and it’s why the defeat is not so conclusive.

Fair, but not conclusive.

Wow. This is so different to how I saw it. The referee was definitely right to pull him out in my opinion

Frostieballs wrote: ↑16 Sep 2023, 17:56

Kilburn wrote: ↑16 Sep 2023, 16:26

Frostieballs wrote: ↑16 Sep 2023, 15:58

I just think that’s a bit like saying he would have another six rounds in him if he hadn’t of been knocked out.

As you can tell it’s a bit of bugbear of mine that people say Joyce only lost because of the eye! I think he lost because he was soundly outboxed!

The reason it comes up, clearly, is because Joyce could have continued last time. He had no bone fractures and could (as I recall) still see out of the eye. Zhang’s work rate had significantly dropped off also. The ref took the decision to stop the fight at that point, others refs may not have.

When a boxer is absolutely fooked either from a neurological or cardio perspective (or both) there is no discretion, the fight has to be stopped. This isn’t what happened with Joyce, and it’s why the defeat is not so conclusive.

Fair, but not conclusive.

Wow. This is so different to how I saw it. The referee was definitely right to pull him out in my opinion

I get, a sport of opinions which is what it makes it even more interesting for me,

Presumably Joyce is going to be behind going into the second half, so will really half to walk through hell to pull this off.

polecateddy wrote: ↑16 Sep 2023, 18:21 Presumably Joyce is going to be behind going into the second half, so will really half to walk through hell to pull this off.

I think Joyce will surprise us and win early

Frostieballs wrote: ↑16 Sep 2023, 17:56

Kilburn wrote: ↑16 Sep 2023, 16:26

Frostieballs wrote: ↑16 Sep 2023, 15:58

I just think that’s a bit like saying he would have another six rounds in him if he hadn’t of been knocked out.

As you can tell it’s a bit of bugbear of mine that people say Joyce only lost because of the eye! I think he lost because he was soundly outboxed!

The reason it comes up, clearly, is because Joyce could have continued last time. He had no bone fractures and could (as I recall) still see out of the eye. Zhang’s work rate had significantly dropped off also. The ref took the decision to stop the fight at that point, others refs may not have.

When a boxer is absolutely fooked either from a neurological or cardio perspective (or both) there is no discretion, the fight has to be stopped. This isn’t what happened with Joyce, and it’s why the defeat is not so conclusive.

Fair, but not conclusive.

Wow. This is so different to how I saw it. The referee was definitely right to pull him out in my opinion

And I’m not saying the ref was wrong to do it either. The eye looked horrible. It was a fair result.

But losing on an eye injury (which is why the ref stopped the fight) is not the same as getting knocked out or wilting to the point where you can fight no longer.

SeanBrennan wrote: ↑16 Sep 2023, 16:18

jwfg wrote: ↑16 Sep 2023, 16:16 Is it too late for Joyce to learn how to duck?

he does know how to, he just chooses not to when he doesn't respect power.

Joyce was staggered in something like rnd 2. He looked smaller than Zhang, less powerful than Zhang .. and more likely to be KO'd than Zhang.

The doctor looked at the eye twice if I recall and Joyce was able to demonstrate seeing his fingers directly in front of him, but the doctor will also be looking where the swelling is obscuring the eyes too to guage his peripheral.

Its a professional sport, and at Joyce's age when he turned pro the emphasis will have been on earning as much as possible as quick as possible .. maybe this is why he has stuck to fWank.

Joyce and Zhang seem decent guys.
Odds are definitely with Zhang .. but maybe Joyce will show us something he hasn't done so far in his 6yrs fighting professionally.

Kilburn wrote: ↑16 Sep 2023, 19:04

Frostieballs wrote: ↑16 Sep 2023, 17:56

Kilburn wrote: ↑16 Sep 2023, 16:26

The reason it comes up, clearly, is because Joyce could have continued last time. He had no bone fractures and could (as I recall) still see out of the eye. Zhang’s work rate had significantly dropped off also. The ref took the decision to stop the fight at that point, others refs may not have.

When a boxer is absolutely fooked either from a neurological or cardio perspective (or both) there is no discretion, the fight has to be stopped. This isn’t what happened with Joyce, and it’s why the defeat is not so conclusive.

Fair, but not conclusive.

Wow. This is so different to how I saw it. The referee was definitely right to pull him out in my opinion

And I’m not saying the ref was wrong to do it either. The eye looked horrible. It was a fair result.

But losing on an eye injury (which is why the ref stopped the fight) is not the same as getting knocked out or wilting to the point where you can fight no longer.

That’s where we differ.

I think it is the same as getting knocked out / stopped ….. on the basis that the damage occurred as a result of being soundly outboxed and taking sustained punishment.

Either way you have rendered your opponent unable to continue by outperforming them.

When it is that one sided the damage is coming out somewhere.

Frostieballs wrote: ↑17 Sep 2023, 04:19

Kilburn wrote: ↑16 Sep 2023, 19:04

Frostieballs wrote: ↑16 Sep 2023, 17:56

Wow. This is so different to how I saw it. The referee was definitely right to pull him out in my opinion

And I’m not saying the ref was wrong to do it either. The eye looked horrible. It was a fair result.

But losing on an eye injury (which is why the ref stopped the fight) is not the same as getting knocked out or wilting to the point where you can fight no longer.

That’s where we differ.

I think it is the same as getting knocked out / stopped ….. on the basis that the damage occurred as a result of being soundly outboxed and taking sustained punishment.

Either way you have rendered your opponent unable to continue by outperforming them.

When it is that one sided the damage is coming out somewhere.

Joyce did not complain at all. Didn't even look disappointed when the doctor called it.