Personally I don’t think Hatton was avoiding him because he thought he’d lose, I just think their eyes were on bigger fish.
I quite liked Witter not getting the Hatton fight, Witter was always trying to goad him into a fight and Hatton just cracked on and did his thing. I don’t think he dodged him. Witter was hard to like as he was always a bit whiney, like Robin Reid 1999 onwards after SD vs Joe. Although I like Robin and ironically despite neither Witter nor Reid making big money, both held the WBC belt, albeit briefly in Reid’s case.
Ageed. Also Hatton actually wanted the fight originally, but management steered him away and I think in the end he was persuaded not to give Junior the payday. Witter and Ingle overstepped the line especially after the Thaxton fight - which was also disrespectful to Jon after giving Ricky such a tough fight… especially as Thaxton was with Ingle
Hatton was British Champion and Witter was the mandatory for the British Title wasn't he? Hatton dropped the British Title instead of facing his biggest domestic rival. They managed to mascarade as the WBU trincket as being a world championship to the layman. In a sporting sense it would of been interesting to see Ricky step up earlier than 2005. If not Witter he could of got title shots long before against the likes of Harris, Mitchell, Cotton, Corley and Judah. But he made huge money just with his WBU show, so why bother?
Hatton like Eubank and Benn benefited greatly from having well managed careers that avoided high risk low reward fights. I kind of like how Eubank openly admits why he avoided Roy Jones, Mike McCallum and Herol Graham.
He also said something about McCallum to the effect of 'How am I supposed to fight someone who throws 100s of punches like a machine a gun all night long'
I quite liked Witter not getting the Hatton fight, Witter was always trying to goad him into a fight and Hatton just cracked on and did his thing. I don’t think he dodged him. Witter was hard to like as he was always a bit whiney, like Robin Reid 1999 onwards after SD vs Joe. Although I like Robin and ironically despite neither Witter nor Reid making big money, both held the WBC belt, albeit briefly in Reid’s case.
Ageed. Also Hatton actually wanted the fight originally, but management steered him away and I think in the end he was persuaded not to give Junior the payday. Witter and Ingle overstepped the line especially after the Thaxton fight - which was also disrespectful to Jon after giving Ricky such a tough fight… especially as Thaxton was with Ingle
Hatton like Eubank and Benn benefited greatly from having well managed careers that avoided high risk low reward fights. I kind of like how Eubank openly admits why he avoided Roy Jones, Mike McCallum and Herol Graham.
He also said something about McCallum to the effect of 'How am I supposed to fight someone who throws 100s of punches like a machine a gun all night long'
Hearn said when he signed Eubank Sr that Eubank had three demands, no southpaws, no unbeaten fighters and no opponents under the age of 25.
Ageed. Also Hatton actually wanted the fight originally, but management steered him away and I think in the end he was persuaded not to give Junior the payday. Witter and Ingle overstepped the line especially after the Thaxton fight - which was also disrespectful to Jon after giving Ricky such a tough fight… especially as Thaxton was with Ingle
Hatton like Eubank and Benn benefited greatly from having well managed careers that avoided high risk low reward fights. I kind of like how Eubank openly admits why he avoided Roy Jones, Mike McCallum and Herol Graham.
He also said something about McCallum to the effect of 'How am I supposed to fight someone who throws 100s of punches like a machine a gun all night long'
Hearn said when he signed Eubank Sr that Eubank had three demands, no southpaws, no unbeaten fighters and no opponents under the age of 25.
Graciano Rocchigiani was unbeaten and the fight was in Germany, and he was southpaw
Hatton like Eubank and Benn benefited greatly from having well managed careers that avoided high risk low reward fights. I kind of like how Eubank openly admits why he avoided Roy Jones, Mike McCallum and Herol Graham.
He also said something about McCallum to the effect of 'How am I supposed to fight someone who throws 100s of punches like a machine a gun all night long'
Hearn said when he signed Eubank Sr that Eubank had three demands, no southpaws, no unbeaten fighters and no opponents under the age of 25.
Graciano Rocchigiani was unbeaten and the fight was in Germany, and he was southpaw
Hearn said it in an interview, I assume he meant after he turned pro in earlier fights
Phenomenal-Nutrition, No....Witter was abysmal against Judah.
It's true, Zab was genuinely befuddled by Witter's negativity. Apart from an "off" scorecard of 116-112 for Judah, the other 2 cards of 118-110 indicate Zab's dominance.
Witter made no attempt to win his first world title shot and earned the derision that came his way afterwards.
Ricky thrilled crowds over & over again and his revered accordingly.
THEBUTCH wrote: ↑21 Sep 2025, 11:16
Phenomenal-Nutrition, No....Witter was abysmal against Judah.
It's true, Zab was genuinely befuddled by Witter's negativity. Apart from an "off" scorecard of 116-112 for Judah, the other 2 cards of 118-110 indicate Zab's dominance.
Witter made no attempt to win his first world title shot and earned the derision that came his way afterwards.
Ricky thrilled crowds over & over again and his revered accordingly.
To be fair to Witter, he took the Judah fight on about 8 days notice if I remember correctly.
To be fair to Hatton, taking other fights for business/financial reasons isn’t the same as a duck, or being scared.
Hatton would have fought Witter if enough money was on the table. I say that as a big fan of Witter.
I think most fighters would fight anyone if the money was right. Risk vs reward also plays a part but if you are being offered silly money I doubt many would turn it down.
THEBUTCH wrote: ↑21 Sep 2025, 11:16
Phenomenal-Nutrition, No....Witter was abysmal against Judah.
It's true, Zab was genuinely befuddled by Witter's negativity. Apart from an "off" scorecard of 116-112 for Judah, the other 2 cards of 118-110 indicate Zab's dominance.
Witter made no attempt to win his first world title shot and earned the derision that came his way afterwards.
Ricky thrilled crowds over & over again and his revered accordingly.
I disagree, Judah was punching air all night and eating counters. Do you actually think the A-Side got a bad card from the pre paid judges or the judges with the widest scorecards reflected the contest when they're pre-paid for?
I'm not trying to turn this into a Hatton Witter fight BTW. It isn't the time or place.
Frostieballs wrote: ↑21 Sep 2025, 11:52
To be fair to Witter, he took the Judah fight on about 8 days notice if I remember correctly.
To be fair to Hatton, taking other fights for business/financial reasons isn’t the same as a duck, or being scared.
Hatton would have fought Witter if enough money was on the table. I say that as a big fan of Witter.
A duck is a duck. Sugar Ray Robinson ducked Charles Burley, Holman Williams and the rest of the Black Murderer's Row. Lamota fought some of them but ducked others like Burley. SRR also priced himself out of an Archie Moore title fight.
Saying a fighter ducked another fighter isn't the same as saying they are scared. They simply don't want the public humiliation and loss of earnings the risk may bring. They obviously don't want to get hurt unnesecarily either.
Ricky managed to develop a cosy career with his WBU title of bullying blow up lightweights and old men for big money. He probably wouldn't make anymore for a Witter fight in that time, so why bother? Credit to him though, he didn't have to step up against Tyszu, but he did and he beat an elite fighter that night showing all of his ability.
Frostieballs wrote: ↑21 Sep 2025, 11:52
To be fair to Witter, he took the Judah fight on about 8 days notice if I remember correctly.
To be fair to Hatton, taking other fights for business/financial reasons isn’t the same as a duck, or being scared.
Hatton would have fought Witter if enough money was on the table. I say that as a big fan of Witter.
A duck is a duck. Sugar Ray Robinson ducked Charles Burley, Holman Williams and the rest of the Black Murderer's Row. Lamota fought some of them but ducked others like Burley. SRR also priced himself out of an Archie Moore title fight.
Saying a fighter ducked another fighter isn't the same as saying they are scared. They simply don't want the public humiliation and loss of earnings the risk may bring. They obviously don't want to get hurt unnesecarily either.
Ricky managed to develop a cosy career with his WBU title of bullying blow up lightweights and old men for big money. He probably wouldn't make anymore for a Witter fight in that time, so why bother? Credit to him though, he didn't have to step up against Tyszu, but he did and he beat an elite fighter that night showing all of his ability.
Sometimes it genuinely is just the smarter business decision to avoid certain fights in favor of others. If you could make the same or close to the same amount of money for an opponent that is a lot less likely to kick your ass, most guys would go that route if given the option to some degree. Especially when you've had loads of experience enough to know what kinda fighter is going to be difficult for you.
In fairness to Ricky. Tszyu, Mayweather and Pacquiao are all leaps and bounds bigger fights than Junior Witter ever could've been.
Men who chase fights with Floyd Mayweather and Manny Pacquiao don't fear Junior Witter. The issue was Witter brought nothing to the table. He couldn't draw flies and was horrible to watch. He stunk out the joint on a Tyson undercard against Judah. He stunk out the joint again when he was given another opportunity, on HBO's Hopkins/Eastman undercard, right before Hatton mugged Tyzu and moved up in the world. I think Hatton genuinely hated Witter after his Thaxton shenanigans, but decided because he was box office and Witter wasn't he would deny his rival the limelight and concomitant payday. And why not? Hatton was knocking out cans and coining it in; why give Witter a piece of the action when he's only going to put on a stinky, spoiling performance and make you look bad?
It's prizefighting and Witter didn't represent a significant prize. When Hatton came back against Lascano it was in front of 60,000 fans. What would the crowd have been with Witter bringing his fans? 60,100? I think Ricky could get by without that money.
Phenomenal-Nutrition, I'll leave the judging conspiracy theories to you
Witter was beaten out of sight, late replacement or not. He could have had 800 days notice and Witter would never have beaten Judah. It would have meant standing his ground at some point but he was too terrified to do that.
It's difficult to hit a runner who has no intention of making any sort of fight of his world championship opportunity.
This is fine for a forum debate because Hatton comes out of it well...Ricky always tried to win. Always.
In the ring he didn't lack the bottle or self respect that Witter did.
Last edited by THEBUTCH on 21 Sep 2025, 15:51, edited 3 times in total.
Frostieballs, re:8 days notice....Wayne Alexander, I seem to recall, took a world title opportunity at about 1 days notice against the pretty formidable Harry Simon.
That didn't stop Wayne trying hard to win, and I think, breaking a hand (or both) in the process. This tells us a lot about a boxer's character.
Again, Hatton always tried to win. A great competitor.
No doubt about it Ricky Hatton avoided Witter , But i don't think for one minuite it was Ricky , i beleive it was his trainer , manager , promoter ,, there not stupid Witter would of run and held all night long trying to steal a win , making Ricky look bad win or lose , it just would'nt of been a pretty fight , think Scull -- Canelo
Farnell said he actually thought Hatton was even better as an amateur. Hatton is the single most impressive amateur I've seen in the flesh, so i can kind of understand where Farnell is coming from...and he would have seen a lot more of Ricky's amateur fights.
I suppose because Hatton had such a hugely successful professional career, his amateur credentials are overlooked.
Interesting interview and one that made me think of The Chief in One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest saying: "Every time he put the bottle to his mouth, he didn't suck out of it, it sucked out of him."
Poor old Ricky. What must he have been going through.
THEBUTCH wrote: ↑23 Sep 2025, 18:29
Farnell said he actually thought Hatton was even better as an amateur. Hatton is the single most impressive amateur I've seen in the flesh, so i can kind of understand where Farnell is coming from...and he would have seen a lot more of Ricky's amateur fights.
I suppose because Hatton had such a hugely successful professional career, his amateur credentials are overlooked.
I had met him a few times when I was fighting, also bumped into him in Dusseldorf, with Force Fraser, went up to him to grab a picture, treated me as if he knew me, nice guy.
So much so that I think Force Fraser thought we knew each other better than we did.
Sad loss
