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WildWaylon wrote:

Max Molyneux wrote:Problem was finding out the Info too late, I was telling my support workers for months I would like to go to Uni but I was put off by the GCSE's part thinking you had to have them but I had low grade ones despite them knowing the alternatives, they for some reason never told me. My parents thought the same way.

It was thanks to Carlos starting this thread that I found out you don't need GCSE's, but the colleges were trying to discourage me off Uni, saying It was hard and people fail, comparing me to other people and my mum just found It hard to believe you could go to Uni without high level GCSE's and still thought that despite me showing her proof In the booklets and such. Mature students over 21 can do alternatives to getting Into uni like doing a foundation year In Uni.

My mum and support workers were defending the bullshit the colleges were saying too

I went to the colleges at first trying to do GCSE's but fucked off from the colleges after their discouraging attitude and the fact that I found the GCSE work too easy and thinking why do I need child's easy work to get Into high standard and hard work places like University? The colleges In Liverpool seem to give a discouraging attitude towards University and the schemes they offer just because It's hard.

Going to aim for the University of Liverpool, John Moores was partly why I have to wait till next year. I went to an appointment there the person I was booked to see didn't show up so I had to see someone who didn't have a clue what to do.

Your Mother is right to think the way she does. In her time you did need good passes to get a place at Uni. In her day and I am assuming she is in her 40s or 50s, the standards for acceptance were very high. In those days there were far less Unis so there were far less places for students. When the government gave polys university status, a political move, many thousands of youngsters could then get into uni but it meant a lot less. Also in her day GCSE standards were much higher and people who got a place at Uni really deserved it. In the past people have been given chances to take courses with just the minimum requirements to do so and most have failed miserably, not having the ability to keep up. Its therefore not surprising people without enough formal qualifications are discouraged from taking a place which should be given to another student who has a far better chance of completing the course and passing the exams. It costs a lot of money to educate people so why waste money on those who are unlikely to meet the standards. I therefore think its right people should prove they are worthy and capable with decent GCSE passes to get a place at Uni.

Well It was strange that she still didn't believe It after being shown proof In the University booklets GCSE's are not necessary. Even the non ex poly colleges are doing the alternatives.

If school teachers In secondry and primary schools(not all though, some teachers are good) wern't so shit, then maybe alot of ones who do poor In school might pass them. Teachers focus on the students who have well off parents or the ones who are smart straight away and go lazy on the rest. It's a shame as alot turn to scum or are fated to Asda 9 to 5's because of a bad education. Some might turn that way anyway though.


Since Uni's take years to complete just a bachelors, the over 21 options are good as by a certain age, your expected to be In a job and not education.

In my mums day not many could afford Uni despite deserving and being good enough. The wealthy and middle class could only afford to go. Most wealthy are thick and don't deserve It yet get Into places like Oxford and Cambridge because strings are pulled and try to become the conservative school boys that want to run our contry.

Well my GCSE's were d's e's f's and g's when I left school and they don't prove my level now as I was taking them again recently and they were so badly easy I thought "Isn't Uni hard yet these so called needed GCSE's were too easy". Now I can read most things and know what do and such now

Uni's give out honary degrees to footballers who might be terrible at writing essays and basic maths yet get one and are considered graduates of the Uni too. They did this practice In so called day of when things were supposed to be worthy too so whats the use of GCSE's and such?

Max You know it doesnt surprise me one little bit that your Mother cant believe universities will take virtually anyone now, because neither can I. When I was a lad about 12 the local newspaper had as a headline "Local boy goes to university". Thats how hard and how rare it was for an ordinary lad from an ordinary working class background to go to university. Basically universities took from public schools. Even grammer school kids struggled to get in. As for kids from secondry moderns (now renamed comprehensives) they had no chance at all. Kids who went to the secondry modern were not allowed to sit GCEs, as they were known then, and had to leave school at 15. I got my GCEs by going to night school after a days work. I had to work bloody hard to get my education being a working class lad from a poor family and I was nearly 25 when I finished. So let me get this right a kid who has nothing can apply and get into Cambridge, if its true its a bloody disgrace. First we lower the standard of education in schools. Then we sack the examining bodies because they set exams that are too hard and employ others that allow our kids to get good results. Then when other developed European countries have more university students pro rata than we do, we upgrade our polys. Now you tell me anybody with bugger all can become a university student. Sorry mate I am with your Mum on this, its crazy. To be honest I have thought for a while, how are young people with poor english, who cant spell and dont seem to know much, getting into university. Now you have enlightened me, I think I know. You think GCSEs are piss easy, and they are to be honest, but you wouldnt say the same about the GCEs of my time. I wouldnt mind betting that an O level (ordinary) back then is harder than an A level today. In fact I would go so far as to say the 11plus was probably harder than todays GCSEs. No matter how much easier they are they should be the only way a student gets a place at Uni. Tell your Mum from me, she is not alone finding the whole thing unbelievable.

Max Molyneux wrote:Problem was finding out the Info too late, I was telling my support workers for months I would like to go to Uni but I was put off by the GCSE's part thinking you had to have them but I had low grade ones despite them knowing the alternatives, they for some reason never told me. My parents thought the same way.

It was thanks to Carlos starting this thread that I found out you don't need GCSE's, but the colleges were trying to discourage me off Uni, saying It was hard and people fail, comparing me to other people and my mum just found It hard to believe you could go to Uni without high level GCSE's and still thought that despite me showing her proof In the booklets and such. Mature students over 21 can do alternatives to getting Into uni like doing a foundation year In Uni.

My mum and support workers were defending the bullshit the colleges were saying too

I went to the colleges at first trying to do GCSE's but fucked off from the colleges after their discouraging attitude and the fact that I found the GCSE work too easy and thinking why do I need child's easy work to get Into high standard and hard work places like University? The colleges In Liverpool seem to give a discouraging attitude towards University and the schemes they offer just because It's hard.

Going to aim for the University of Liverpool, John Moores was partly why I have to wait till next year. I went to an appointment there the person I was booked to see didn't show up so I had to see someone who didn't have a clue what to do.

First of all Max, let me congratulate you on going forward and applying to LJM despite the obvious
pitfalls. It isn't going to be easy but the staff on your course will be very encouraging and will
want you to succeed.

As the others have said - it is easy to lose the initial focus and enthusiasm but hopefully you wont and you can go on forward to change your life.

University education changed my life - well here I am in South Korea teaching English rather than on a night shift in some crap factory in the north west of England - I hope it can do the same for you.

WildWaylon wrote:Max You know it doesnt surprise me one little bit that your Mother cant believe universities will take virtually anyone now, because neither can I. When I was a lad about 12 the local newspaper had as a headline "Local boy goes to university". Thats how hard and how rare it was for an ordinary lad from an ordinary working class background to go to university. Basically universities took from public schools. Even grammer school kids struggled to get in. As for kids from secondry moderns (now renamed comprehensives) they had no chance at all. Kids who went to the secondry modern were not allowed to sit GCEs, as they were known then, and had to leave school at 15. I got my GCEs by going to night school after a days work. I had to work bloody hard to get my education being a working class lad from a poor family and I was nearly 25 when I finished. So let me get this right a kid who has nothing can apply and get into Cambridge, if its true its a bloody disgrace. First we lower the standard of education in schools. Then we sack the examining bodies because they set exams that are too hard and employ others that allow our kids to get good results. Then when other developed European countries have more university students pro rata than we do, we upgrade our polys. Now you tell me anybody with bugger all can become a university student. Sorry mate I am with your Mum on this, its crazy. To be honest I have thought for a while, how are young people with poor english, who cant spell and dont seem to know much, getting into university. Now you have enlightened me, I think I know. You think GCSEs are piss easy, and they are to be honest, but you wouldnt say the same about the GCEs of my time. I wouldnt mind betting that an O level (ordinary) back then is harder than an A level today. In fact I would go so far as to say the 11plus was probably harder than todays GCSEs. No matter how much easier they are they should be the only way a student gets a place at Uni. Tell your Mum from me, she is not alone finding the whole thing unbelievable.

The poly Uni's still have the rules as the traditional Uni's when they gained the status. It's a good thing they've become Uni's as more are passing the requirements and want the Uni education. Uni shouldn't be an elitist privilige It used to be.

GCSE's don't say anything about their common sense though, theirs students In my street who can't even wheel a wheely bin or open an alley gate. I've had students knocking on my door asking for a spare joint, they can do a test but not common sense things.

What I meant about the Cambridge stuff was the rich kids who still go through the normal standards may probably mess up on their tests but can have strings pulled for them having the connections. Money can always pull strings.

Uni's still want requirements though, they just consider more than just GCSE's now. Theres foundation years that over 21's can do to see If their good enough for Uni. Still not everyone goes to Uni.

My mum passed some exams In school, she said something about only grammer schools did GCSE's back then. She wanted to go to art college but couldn't afford It and had to do two jobs Instead leaving a home the councils ran for kids who's parents couldn't afford to raise them.

Carlos-Wigan wrote:

Max Molyneux wrote:Problem was finding out the Info too late, I was telling my support workers for months I would like to go to Uni but I was put off by the GCSE's part thinking you had to have them but I had low grade ones despite them knowing the alternatives, they for some reason never told me. My parents thought the same way.

It was thanks to Carlos starting this thread that I found out you don't need GCSE's, but the colleges were trying to discourage me off Uni, saying It was hard and people fail, comparing me to other people and my mum just found It hard to believe you could go to Uni without high level GCSE's and still thought that despite me showing her proof In the booklets and such. Mature students over 21 can do alternatives to getting Into uni like doing a foundation year In Uni.

My mum and support workers were defending the bullshit the colleges were saying too

I went to the colleges at first trying to do GCSE's but fucked off from the colleges after their discouraging attitude and the fact that I found the GCSE work too easy and thinking why do I need child's easy work to get Into high standard and hard work places like University? The colleges In Liverpool seem to give a discouraging attitude towards University and the schemes they offer just because It's hard.

Going to aim for the University of Liverpool, John Moores was partly why I have to wait till next year. I went to an appointment there the person I was booked to see didn't show up so I had to see someone who didn't have a clue what to do.

First of all Max, let me congratulate you on going forward and applying to LJM despite the obvious
pitfalls. It isn't going to be easy but the staff on your course will be very encouraging and will
want you to succeed.

As the others have said - it is easy to lose the initial focus and enthusiasm but hopefully you wont and you can go on forward to change your life.

University education changed my life - well here I am in South Korea teaching English rather than on a night shift in some crap factory in the north west of England - I hope it can do the same for you.

Thanks, talked to a few who got degrees at later stages and there all positive about It too and like Uni better than their school days. Uni teachers must be alot relaxed compare to primary and secondry school teachers.

The September waiting sucks but hopefully that willl change for future students one day.

Wouldn't want the course work to be easy though, want to work harder at It going Into a Uni so late.

Max Molyneux wrote:

Carlos-Wigan wrote:

Max Molyneux wrote:Problem was finding out the Info too late, I was telling my support workers for months I would like to go to Uni but I was put off by the GCSE's part thinking you had to have them but I had low grade ones despite them knowing the alternatives, they for some reason never told me. My parents thought the same way.

It was thanks to Carlos starting this thread that I found out you don't need GCSE's, but the colleges were trying to discourage me off Uni, saying It was hard and people fail, comparing me to other people and my mum just found It hard to believe you could go to Uni without high level GCSE's and still thought that despite me showing her proof In the booklets and such. Mature students over 21 can do alternatives to getting Into uni like doing a foundation year In Uni.

My mum and support workers were defending the bullshit the colleges were saying too

I went to the colleges at first trying to do GCSE's but fucked off from the colleges after their discouraging attitude and the fact that I found the GCSE work too easy and thinking why do I need child's easy work to get Into high standard and hard work places like University? The colleges In Liverpool seem to give a discouraging attitude towards University and the schemes they offer just because It's hard.

Going to aim for the University of Liverpool, John Moores was partly why I have to wait till next year. I went to an appointment there the person I was booked to see didn't show up so I had to see someone who didn't have a clue what to do.

First of all Max, let me congratulate you on going forward and applying to LJM despite the obvious
pitfalls. It isn't going to be easy but the staff on your course will be very encouraging and will
want you to succeed.

As the others have said - it is easy to lose the initial focus and enthusiasm but hopefully you wont and you can go on forward to change your life.

University education changed my life - well here I am in South Korea teaching English rather than on a night shift in some crap factory in the north west of England - I hope it can do the same for you.

Thanks, talked to a few who got degrees at later stages and there all positive about It too and like Uni better than their school days. Uni teachers must be alot better.

There is no comparison to school mate - I made friends from all over the world at uni and now continue to do so as a graduate - this will be the best time of your life - go in with a sense of
adventure and entitlement and you'll do well - I suffered from the first year of a 'I don't deserve to be here' mindset but in the end I was as good as anyone on my course. Work hard, play hard, make friends, don't be afraid to learn from your mistakes (as regards essay writing) and you'll do everyone proud.

Yeah I reckon I'll definately make alot of friends when I go to one, most people seem to make their friends In Uni.

Max Molyneux wrote:Yeah I reckon I'll definately make alot of friends when I go to one, most people seem to make their friends In Uni.

Fair play to you Max, you certainly have the right attitude, so I hope all goes well for you. Again your Mum is right, only Grammer school kids got to take exams. A lot of parents back then were so poor you had to start working at 15 because they needed your board money to get by. The standard asked for by parents was 30 bob (a bob was a shilling and 30 bob was £1.50 in todays money). It doesnt sound a lot but it could be half the wage of a 15 year old. Sounds to me like your Mother had a tough time, bless her. I hope she is comfortable now. Those days were horrible in one way but we appreciated little things a lot more than people do now. We take everything for granted these days and most people are never satisfied with what they have.

I left school with nothing. i went to college then uni and I'm now studying a Masters.

I went to a redbrick uni and I couldn't believe the amount of stupid people in higher education!

I worked in a food factory for a few years before I went to Uni. The workforce at the factory had a lot more intelligent people compared to many of the spoilt middle-class brats that were on my course.

Still, I loved every minute in higher education and I would advise anyone to go if they get the chance.

Peace

I'm toying with trying at getting some exams again, i recently got a 2nd job as a project worker with homeless 16-25 year olds, and one of the things i'm advising them on is re entering education etc, and got me thinking i should really get at least some GCSE's myself.

jim wright1 wrote:I left school with nothing. i went to college then uni and I'm now studying a Masters.

I went to a redbrick uni and I couldn't believe the amount of stupid people in higher education!

I worked in a food factory for a few years before I went to Uni. The workforce at the factory had a lot more intelligent people compared to many of the spoilt middle-class brats that were on my course.

Still, I loved every minute in higher education and I would advise anyone to go if they get the chance.

Peace

Loads of daft students In my street too. One asked me to close the alley gates because they didn't know how to and have been asked If I had spare joints.

Most of the landlords only rent to students around here so theirs loads of em.

Max Molyneux wrote:Yeah I reckon I'll definately make alot of friends when I go to one, most people seem to make their friends In Uni.

You will, Max.

I had a very large group of friends prior to Uni. and have made loads more in the nine weeks since I started here. As well as really enjoying my course, my life away from university has never been better.

I became well known very quickly, mainly because I smashed my head open on the second night and had everyone saying for the next two weeks: “Oh, so you’re the one who fell over, soaked everyone in blood and had to be taken to hospital!”

It’s not the best way to do things, mind, as I have a massive scar from my forehead to below my eye.

I wish you all the best.

Max, yes you will - plus if you move to a flat or Halls not only will you make friends but you will make far closer friends than ever in School.

I've lost contact with all from school, even though I live close to them - now I have left, I spend most of my time travelling to see my uni friends and even friends of uni friends. You get to know them far better when you share the ups and downs of going through independence with them.

Good luck Max, you will love it.

You'll definately make plenty of friends at Uni Max, I was on a reunion back in ABerystwyth last weekend and it was like we'd never been anyway...... i.e everyone got leathered all weekend

I got three 'O' levels, went back for another year and got three more (wow!). Still, an old Headmaster once told me how underachievers at his school would always cross the road to chat to him - they enjoyed their school years. The achievers would cross the road to avoid him - they hated school.

I left school with 6 GCSE's (2 x Science, Eng Lang, History, Geography and Home Economics (cookery)). I went back to get Maths, Physics and Electronics but basically I just didn't take school seriously.
I did an apprenticeship and during this time gained an HNC but never tried to get a degree.
I now work for a multnational company in sales and marketing earning £80k per annum.

I've just realised that I'm going no further without a degree so I start an OU MBA in February.

WildWaylon wrote:Max You know it doesnt surprise me one little bit that your Mother cant believe universities will take virtually anyone now, because neither can I. When I was a lad about 12 the local newspaper had as a headline "Local boy goes to university". Thats how hard and how rare it was for an ordinary lad from an ordinary working class background to go to university. Basically universities took from public schools. Even grammer school kids struggled to get in. As for kids from secondry moderns (now renamed comprehensives) they had no chance at all. Kids who went to the secondry modern were not allowed to sit GCEs, as they were known then, and had to leave school at 15. I got my GCEs by going to night school after a days work. I had to work bloody hard to get my education being a working class lad from a poor family and I was nearly 25 when I finished. So let me get this right a kid who has nothing can apply and get into Cambridge, if its true its a bloody disgrace. First we lower the standard of education in schools. Then we sack the examining bodies because they set exams that are too hard and employ others that allow our kids to get good results. Then when other developed European countries have more university students pro rata than we do, we upgrade our polys. Now you tell me anybody with bugger all can become a university student. Sorry mate I am with your Mum on this, its crazy. To be honest I have thought for a while, how are young people with poor english, who cant spell and dont seem to know much, getting into university. Now you have enlightened me, I think I know. You think GCSEs are piss easy, and they are to be honest, but you wouldnt say the same about the GCEs of my time. I wouldnt mind betting that an O level (ordinary) back then is harder than an A level today. In fact I would go so far as to say the 11plus was probably harder than todays GCSEs. No matter how much easier they are they should be the only way a student gets a place at Uni. Tell your Mum from me, she is not alone finding the whole thing unbelievable.

To be fair, that was 1896

stujones wrote:Max, yes you will - plus if you move to a flat or Halls not only will you make friends but you will make far closer friends than ever in School.

I've lost contact with all from school, even though I live close to them - now I have left, I spend most of my time travelling to see my uni friends and even friends of uni friends. You get to know them far better when you share the ups and downs of going through independence with them.

Good luck Max, you will love it.

Amen to that.

You learn a lot more at University than just your subject. Mixing with people from all over the country and indeed all over the world. I left uni in 1996, and I'm still in touch with everyone I was close with at Uni. I know one friend from school, who I've known since Infant school, 35 years and still going, but that's the exception that proves the rule.

Only downside is I am now friends with loads of Northern monkeys, but hey-ho, you canne have everything.

I was the first in my family to go to University.

jamesmcdonnell wrote:

WildWaylon wrote:Max You know it doesnt surprise me one little bit that your Mother cant believe universities will take virtually anyone now, because neither can I. When I was a lad about 12 the local newspaper had as a headline "Local boy goes to university". Thats how hard and how rare it was for an ordinary lad from an ordinary working class background to go to university. Basically universities took from public schools. Even grammer school kids struggled to get in. As for kids from secondry moderns (now renamed comprehensives) they had no chance at all. Kids who went to the secondry modern were not allowed to sit GCEs, as they were known then, and had to leave school at 15. I got my GCEs by going to night school after a days work. I had to work bloody hard to get my education being a working class lad from a poor family and I was nearly 25 when I finished. So let me get this right a kid who has nothing can apply and get into Cambridge, if its true its a bloody disgrace. First we lower the standard of education in schools. Then we sack the examining bodies because they set exams that are too hard and employ others that allow our kids to get good results. Then when other developed European countries have more university students pro rata than we do, we upgrade our polys. Now you tell me anybody with bugger all can become a university student. Sorry mate I am with your Mum on this, its crazy. To be honest I have thought for a while, how are young people with poor english, who cant spell and dont seem to know much, getting into university. Now you have enlightened me, I think I know. You think GCSEs are piss easy, and they are to be honest, but you wouldnt say the same about the GCEs of my time. I wouldnt mind betting that an O level (ordinary) back then is harder than an A level today. In fact I would go so far as to say the 11plus was probably harder than todays GCSEs. No matter how much easier they are they should be the only way a student gets a place at Uni. Tell your Mum from me, she is not alone finding the whole thing unbelievable.

To be fair, that was 1896

I may be old but not that fooking old. Try the 50s and 60s

I did my GCSE's and A'levels in the early nineties in those days you needed A'levels to go to University. These days they let anyone in with all sorts of strange qualifacations to take funny courses. The exams are easier because each board gets money for the amount of students who take them, so it is in their interests to make them easy and schools love it because it's good for their league tables. Of course each schools funding and survival depends on their intake, it's all about cash.
Same for the Universities, if they were strict about who they let in they would close through lack of funding. At best many of the courses are glorified apprentiships which will be better served on site. There will probably be boxing courses soon, but it suits the government to keep unemployment down.

Coco wrote:I did my GCSE's and A'levels in the early nineties in those days you needed A'levels to go to University. These days they let anyone in with all sorts of strange qualifacations to take funny courses. The exams are easier because each board gets money for the amount of students who take them, so it is in their interests to make them easy and schools love it because it's good for their league tables. Of course each schools funding and survival depends on their intake, it's all about cash.
Same for the Universities, if they were strict about who they let in they would close through lack of funding. At best many of the courses are glorified apprentiships which will be better served on site. There will probably be boxing courses soon, but it suits the government to keep unemployment down.

Good post and absolutely true, but the rot started to set in, in the late 70s. The arguement seems to be that the system is fairer now giving more young people the chance to go to Uni. I believe there was nothing wrong with youngsters getting a good education at Poly who didnt quite meet the standard for Uni. That meant being accepted and going to Uni really meant something. For all the reasons given on this thread, a lot of it political and financial, our education system has changed drastically, and unfortunately gone downhill.

The quality education has been spread too thin and therefore has been heavily diluted. We will see loads of people in there early 20's with worthless qualifacations and heavily in debt, while we will still be bringing in our tradesmen from Eastern Europe.
The ideal of bringing education to the masses has become a nonsense because because they are not getting a worthwhile education.
It was better in the old days because working people who were able enough to progress would be funded through decent grants, in those days you could even sign on in your holidays.
Now because of the excessive numbers going you have to fund yourself and even pay your fees, this is surely not better fotr the working class family, now they genuinely can't afford to go

Got a phone call from the University of Liverpool enquiring about their options and they mentioned A Levels, Access and a foundation year. You stll have to pass something to get Into Uni. Had an NVQ from a course I did a while ago but the place never gave me despite passing strangely, was 4 years ago so dunno If I could find out about that still.

I'll pass the foundation and then go onto the course I want, I hate colleges. Access Is shite and some colleges want maths and English first for that.

Yeah alot get In debt with loans, some are terrible at how they spend them. My sisters friends like to blow their bursaries or loans on shite.

Bursaries or however they're spelt don't have to be paid back, usually just the loans that are paid back I think only when you earn more than 15k a year. The education people messed up on the loans and seem to be wanting the money back from the poorer students rather than the richer ones. They were giving loans to students who have parents on utpto 60k a year

As for the Poly's they have the same rules as the Uni's who wern't Poly's, just that there were limited places and the people who did meet the standard wouldn't get In because of lack of places.

The working classes have always had a tough time getting a decent education. I was once in the company of a pair of toffs. One said to the other looking at his tie, "I see you went to Harrow, I went to Eaton myself". Then this full of himself pudendum looked at my tie and I replied "Marks and Spencer mate". The system states once a worker ant always a worker ant and even if you do, through hard work and ability, manage to better yourself, you will never fit in or be able to compete with ex public school boys. There are exceptions, but very few.