usa nationals

[teasy24]

The article on Warren was not quite acurate. Warren was ahead 17-10 with about half the round left, when Jesus got him in the corner and landed two points. He landed a couple more points seconds later as Warren was goint backwards, and so the score was 17-14 with about one minute left I'd say. Then Warren hit Jesus, score was 18-14 with about 30 seconds left. Warren fell down twice, and the croud started going nuts so Jesus used that energy from the croud and started banging with Warren, scoing five points and having a one point lead with less than ten seconds left. Then, Warren landed a nice right hand while on the ropes and seconds later the bell rang. So it was 19-19 and Warren scored the last point to tie the fight.

Warren threw a lot more punches but they were not landing! Jesus in my eyes won the match on any type of scoring. He pressed the fight and took it away the last minute. There were plenty upsets here but besides Warren the biggest one was the 106 pound kid from Hawaii taking out Fabian Cervantes. Cervantes was up 7-3 at one point in the final round but Hawaii came back and was up by one with hard hooks and straight lefts landing on Fabian. Then Fabain tied it up. That was a good fight and look forward to seeing him and Miguel go at it, where I think the Hawaii kid will win.

[Dennis]

The problem with the USA Boxing rulebook is the way it is written. There are so many ambiguities. The gauze/tape rule is an example. It says:
(a) Cotton/soft surgical gauze – 15 yards of 2-inch gauze and a minimum of
3 feet, and a maximum of 6 feet of 1-inch adhesive tape per hand. The
tape must be applied 1 inch behind the knuckles. Only ¾ inch tape may
be applied between fingers and may not cover the striking surface of the
hand.
There are numerous problems. First, it just says 15 yards of 2" gauze. That would mean you can't be over or under at all. That is unrealistic. You have to have a range otherwise any amount over/under is a technical rule violation. I have discovered that the manufacturing process for the gauze has a manufacturing tolerance of plus 15%. I have not found any rolls that are under the amount stated on the roll (10 yards or 15 yards). If you can't be assured that the rolls are exactly the length stated, then you can't expect the coaches to use exactly 15 yards. The rule should say something like "a minimum of 10 yards and a maximum of 15 yards" or "12-17 yards of gauze". There has to be a range. Coaches also need to be made aware that the rolls of gauze are all longer than the length stated on the package by up to 15%. Most rolls are 5-10% longer than the amount stated.

Second, the amount of tape would seem to be OK, except it says the tape must be applied 1 inch behind the knuckles. It should say that it can't be applied any closer than 1" from the striking surface/front of the knuckles, 1" from the back of the knuckle, or 1" from the midpoint of the knuckles or something along those lines. By saying 1" behind the knuckles they aren't specifying how to measure it. They also say that it has to be 1" behind the knuckles, which would mean if the tape was 2" behind the knuckles you would be violating the rules.

[Dennis]

Tape rule ambiguity continued:

Third, the tape rule also says a minimum of 3' and a maximum of 6' of 1" tape per hand. It then says that you can use 3/4" strips of tape in between the fingers. That is a problem when you say that you can only have 1" tape and then say that you can use 3/4" tape. Does it mean that these strips are in addition to the 1" tape or you have to rip part of your 3-6' of 1" tape to get the 3/4" strips? If it said that you can cut part of your 3-6' of 1" tape into thin strips of approximately 1/2" wide to use between the fingers in would be better.

Fourth, the rule does not say that the tape has to be applied on top of the gauze and yet that is the interpretation that the officials use. Shouldn't the rule say it? Why doesn't it? The governance changes is why. Coaches and officials can't change the rules. All we can do is make suggestions to the HQ and hope they do something.

When the rules were changed last year, there should have been a rulebook committee consisting of numerous coaches and officials from across the country who could point out flaws in the rules. Coaches and officials are the ones that deal with the rules on a daily basis and they know what will work and what won't. They should also have a couple of attorneys review the proposed rules and point out potential problems from their point of vies. That is what happens once you have a grievance or lawsuit filed.

[Mauler]

Isn't USAB supplying the gauze anyway?

[Dennis]

Actually they have established the qualifying process. The winner of the National Tournament is the US Team member regardless of ranking. Now based on the way they do everything else, that probably means nothing at all. He should go get an attorney, and I'm sure he can have the decision over turned, that seems to be popular this year.

Was that process published or did someone just tell you? USAB really needs to make it clear.

[Dennis]

Isn't USAB supplying the gauze anyway?

They supplied Everlast gauze that is supposed to be 10 yards in length. That means you have to use 1.5 rolls per hand and hope that you guess correctly where the halfway point of the roll is located. You also have to hope that the gauze is exactly 10 yards in length. Guess what, they aren't. We have measured rolls of gauze and they are longer than the specified length by about 5-15%.

[boxmel]

I

heard from several people TWO DAYS AGO, that I should not be surprised if the veterans that were "retained" by USA boxing to stay in the amateur ranks somehow found themselves on the losing end of some decisions because USA Boxing doesn't have the money to pay them what they promised.

Sigh. People's misunderstandings, sometimes deliberately, never cease to amaze me. Unless things have changed, the stipend money comes from the USOC, not USAB. And to even think that judges, who don't know who they are judging until that day, are unilaterally committed to determining the winner of the bouts by cheating, is downright insane.

[boxmel]

When the rules were changed last year, there should have been a rulebook committee consisting of numerous coaches and officials from across the country who could point out flaws in the rules.

The Rules and Regulations Task Force consists of coaches, officials and athletes. All proposed additions and changes are discussed by the Task Force members prior to being submitted to Jim Millman for final approval.

[toddh5220]

That came from Patrick Borkowski, they don't seem to want to publish anything that can come back to haunt them later. I understand the gauze rule being ambiguous, but what are the chances that two boxers, both wrapped by the same person, would have the same amount of gauze on each hand (4 hands) ???? Also it bears noting that neither of their opponents had this issue. I agree the rule needs to be clarified, but the way this was handled was wrong, on so many levels. This kind of thing only hurts the integrity of our sport.

[boxmel]

Deducted points 3 times = DQ I think he was deducted like twice for holding and once for lowblows or something.

Three warnings equal a DQ. There are no points deducted. The opponent of the boxer who got the warning is given two points.

None of them were really warranted, but the reffing wasnt as absurd as the one before.

And you've been a referee for how many years?

[Mauler]

Isn't USAB supplying the gauze anyway?

They supplied Everlast gauze that is supposed to be 10 yards in length. That means you have to use 1.5 rolls per hand and hope that you guess correctly where the halfway point of the roll is located. You also have to hope that the gauze is exactly 10 yards in length. Guess what, they aren't. We have measured rolls of gauze and they are longer than the specified length by about 5-15%.

That's ridiculous. I have small hands, so I didn't notice. When we went to the glove table the guy checking wraps was just some kid volunteer. We waited 5 minutes while he BS'd with his buddy and finally we asked if we could get our gloves and he just said 'yeah, just go ahead and grab a pair'. We then asked if he needed to see my headgear and mouth piece and he said 'Nah, you're good.' um, ok. This is the kid who is responsible for making sure the wraps are right?! The following day the person at the table was a girl who didn't look more than 14 years old!

[scsupra87]

Thought I would add some positive to the conversation, both Women's and Mens finals will be live on the web at http://usaboxing.org/multimedia/live_video/ starting at 7pm Mountain tonight and tomorrow night.

[DCAmateurBoxing]

I

heard from several people TWO DAYS AGO, that I should not be surprised if the veterans that were "retained" by USA boxing to stay in the amateur ranks somehow found themselves on the losing end of some decisions because USA Boxing doesn't have the money to pay them what they promised.

Sigh. People's misunderstandings, sometimes deliberately, never cease to amaze me. Unless things have changed, the stipend money comes from the USOC, not USAB. And to even think that judges, who don't know who they are judging until that day, are unilaterally committed to determining the winner of the bouts by cheating, is downright insane.

I promise that my misunderstanding wasn't deliberate. I really appreciate your politeness. lol. I was referring to sponsorship $$$ which I'm not sure is the same as the stipend money the winners get. I was under the impression that a boxer could receive $$$ that was specifically to support his or her trainging (not sure how that is defined) as long as it was approved and dispersed by USAB. I won't believe that Hunter or Warren or Raynell Williams stayed in the amateur ranks completely for the love of the sport. Is this true and is this done through USOC?

[boxmel]

I promise that my misunderstanding wasn't deliberate. I really appreciate your politeness. lol.

Humph. I am RARELY impolite and definitely not with you! D

I was referring to sponsorship $$$ which I'm not sure is the same as the stipend money the winners get.

Geez - why didn't you say so!

I was under the impression that a boxer could receive $$$ that was specifically to support his or her trainging (not sure how that is defined) as long as it was approved and dispersed by USAB.

This is true - Athlete's Trust Fund - however I don't believe sponsorship money was involved in the amount being paid to the Olympians who stuck around. I can't think of any sponsor who would have that kind of money. And USAB doesn't have any money.

I won't believe that Hunter or Warren or Raynell Williams stayed in the amateur ranks completely for the love of the sport.

Mike Hunter probably for love of the sport than Raynell or Rau'shee. And the money doesn't hurt.

Is this true and is this done through USOC?

As far as I know, unless things have changed, elite athlete's stipends have come from the USOC. I also believe the Foundation has provided winner's bonuses at the US Championships in past years.

[panhandle boxing]

hey hey guys no reason to agrue okay!!! lets just talk about the fights tonight!!! so pick who yall think is going to win from each division

[boxmel]

hey hey guys no reason to agrue okay!!!

If you think this is arguing, you haven't been on the internet for long.

[panhandle boxing]

what's the results for tonight

[kidneypunch]

RESULTSSS PLEASEEE

well sofar.

at least

[kidneypunch]

after today june 12th


Senior Males
Semifinals
201+ lbs: Javier Torres dec. Trevor Bryan, Marquette, Mich., 12-8
201+ lbs: Michael Hunter, Las Vegas, Nev., stopped Javon Wallace, Port Hueneme, Calif., RSC-1 (1:09)

Seinor Female
Finals
101 lbs: Laura Ramirez, Bronx, N. Y., dec. Paola Arana, Duarte, Calif., 16-4
106 lbs: Marlen Esparza, Houston, Texas, dec. Marina Ramirez, Parma, Idaho, 21-1
112 lbs: Seniesa Estrada, Los Angeles, Calif., dec. Cynthia Moreno, Phoenix, Ariz., 14-9
119 lbs: Sacred Downing, Trenton, N. J., dec. Rita Martinez, Las Cruces, N. M., 14-9
125 lbs: Melissa Roberts, Camp Lejeune, N. C., dec. Deirdre Rhodes, St. Louis, Mo., 22-9
132 lbs: Ptricia Manuel, Commerce, Calif., dec. Tiara Brown, 14-4
141 lbs: Queen Underwood, Seattle, Wash., dec. Jennifer Fenn, Cedar Creek, Texas, 17-9
152 lbs: Andrecia Wasson, Centerline, Mich., dec. Brittany Inkrote, Red Lion, Pa., 7-2
165 lbs: Alyssa Defazio, Peoria, Ariz., dec. Qurdisha Gilliam, Fort Valley, Ga., 13-4
178 lbs: Chaquita Hemingway dec. Tyler Lord Wilder, Lansing, Mich., 12-10

[panhandle boxing]

damm these nationals are chaos and too much trouble but a lot of good fights

[!! Shawn]

Deducted points 3 times = DQ I think he was deducted like twice for holding and once for lowblows or something.

Three warnings equal a DQ. There are no points deducted. The opponent of the boxer who got the warning is given two points.

None of them were really warranted, but the reffing wasnt as absurd as the one before.

And you've been a referee for how many years?

Thats what I meant, and I am guessing you are not at the tournament, otherwise you would know what I was talking about.

One ref penalized a fighter twice for holding when he wasnt then penalized the other fighter for something dumb, then stopped the action for a nonexistant lowblow, and went around and asked all the judges if they saw the lowblow. The spent atleast half of the last round warning the fighters for stuff they werent doing. It was ridiculous. I'm guessing it was his first time on the big stage, because he went out of his way to make himself the center of attention. It was so atrocious the audience stopped booing and started laughing.

[!! Shawn]

after today june 12th


Senior Males
Semifinals
201+ lbs: Javier Torres dec. Trevor Bryan, Marquette, Mich., 12-8
201+ lbs: Michael Hunter, Las Vegas, Nev., stopped Javon Wallace, Port Hueneme, Calif., RSC-1 (1:09)

Seinor Female
Finals
101 lbs: Laura Ramirez, Bronx, N. Y., dec. Paola Arana, Duarte, Calif., 16-4
106 lbs: Marlen Esparza, Houston, Texas, dec. Marina Ramirez, Parma, Idaho, 21-1
112 lbs: Seniesa Estrada, Los Angeles, Calif., dec. Cynthia Moreno, Phoenix, Ariz., 14-9
119 lbs: Sacred Downing, Trenton, N. J., dec. Rita Martinez, Las Cruces, N. M., 14-9
125 lbs: Melissa Roberts, Camp Lejeune, N. C., dec. Deirdre Rhodes, St. Louis, Mo., 22-9
132 lbs: Ptricia Manuel, Commerce, Calif., dec. Tiara Brown, 14-4
141 lbs: Queen Underwood, Seattle, Wash., dec. Jennifer Fenn, Cedar Creek, Texas, 17-9
152 lbs: Andrecia Wasson, Centerline, Mich., dec. Brittany Inkrote, Red Lion, Pa., 7-2
165 lbs: Alyssa Defazio, Peoria, Ariz., dec. Qurdisha Gilliam, Fort Valley, Ga., 13-4
178 lbs: Chaquita Hemingway dec. Tyler Lord Wilder, Lansing, Mich., 12-10

The score for the last bout is wrong. The final score was 17-10

[DCAmateurBoxing]

Deducted points 3 times = DQ I think he was deducted like twice for holding and once for lowblows or something.

Three warnings equal a DQ. There are no points deducted. The opponent of the boxer who got the warning is given two points.

None of them were really warranted, but the reffing wasnt as absurd as the one before.

And you've been a referee for how many years?

Thats what I meant, and I am guessing you are not at the tournament, otherwise you would know what I was talking about.

One ref penalized a fighter twice for holding when he wasnt then penalized the other fighter for something dumb, then stopped the action for a nonexistant lowblow, and went around and asked all the judges if they saw the lowblow. The spent atleast half of the last round warning the fighters for stuff they werent doing. It was ridiculous. I'm guessing it was his first time on the big stage, because he went out of his way to make himself the center of attention. It was so atrocious the audience stopped booing and started laughing.

What did the ref look like or do you remember his name? Just curious. . .

[Hugo]

Can someone how to burn the finals onto my computer thanks

[!! Shawn]

What did the ref look like or do you remember his name? Just curious. . .

Not a clue who he is, but he looked just like this guy from the blues brothers movie.