BoxRec

Frank, Mando Muniz was one of my favorite fighters. I saw
him in action a number of times in person. Yes, Mando was
too honest to go into the tank.

- Chuck Johnston

Hey "El Gato" . . .

The first time I saw you fight live, was in the summer of 1967. It was the night you fought Claudio Adame, at the old Long Beach Auditorium. I was there with Johnny Flores, who was working with my stablemate, Chilo Carranza, who was featured in the six-round semi to your main event.

This was the first time I truly learned to appreciate the damage your brutal body blows laid on opponents. Do you know that the last fight Adame had, prior to fighting you, was with your buddy Allen Syers. They fought in a scheduled ten-rounder, at the Olympic, and Adame stopped Syers, who as you know, was a real tough boxer.

Adame's next fight was with you, and it would be his last fight. I remember sitting about a dozen rows back from the ring, and I could hear the concussion of your body blows. They landed with a thudding-crack, and I could see the courage of Adame going south, after each shot. No disrespect to this very special fighter, but it was as if he'd aged 20 years, from the body shots.

Awhile back, I heard that Claudio Adame had passed away. I remember seeing him at the Main St. Gym, where he trained boxers for awhile, after he retired. He gained a lot of weight, but would still skip rope, and work the bags, and spar, wearing a rubber suit.

Just a memory. What are your memories of Claudio Adame?

-Rick Farris

Armando Muniz' fight with Leonard stunk to high heavens.

Duran's 2nd fight with Leonard stunk to high heavens.

Duran's 3rd fight with Leonard stunk to high heavens.

Benitez' fight with Leonard stunk to high heavens.
Benitez trained for all of two weeks and the ref stopped the fight with SIX seconds left.

Leonard's fight with Hagler, with the 10 ounce gloves and 12 round distance where Leonard was given over thirty warning by name by the refreee for holding without a single point taken away stunk to high heavens.

Leonard's fight with Kevin Howard stunk to high heavens (the 'stoppage')

The real Armando Muniz would have broken Leonard in half.

[quote="granberry"]Armando Muniz' fight with Leonard stunk to high heavens.

Duran's 2nd fight with Leonard stunk to high heavens.

Duran's 3rd fight with Leonard stunk to high heavens.

Benitez' fight with Leonard stunk to high heavens.


How high? Just curious?

Frank and Pug,
Everyone by now knows I write a lot about Tijuana. If you say the name"Tijuana" to a stranger, right away they think of "sin". I don't think the U.S. will ever get over their sex hang ups. Yep,there's a lot of "sin" in TJ alright. But there was a time when Tijuana was a mecca for high class entertainment for Americans and Mexicans alike. During prohibition The Aguascalientes Casino was the most popular night club and gambling spot in the Western Hemisphere. (Cuba hadn't been reached yet by the mob). The Caliente Racetrack(and I remember going there frequently. I was there the last day they had racing before they burned it down)was considered the most beautifull track in the world. Italian marble,murals,Fred Harvey's dining room,white linen table cloths,executive suites and boxes. Some of the finest horses(Seabiscuit and Swaps) and jockeys(Arcaro and Longden)raced there.

Great Chinese restaurants like the "El Palacio",seafood at "La Costa Azul",steaks to be had at "El Coronel". The Rosarito Beach Hotel had some of Mexico's greatest stars perform there. (I remember seeing Maria Felix with my parents. I knew after that night watching her sing and dance that I would never be gay). Tijuana had action. It had class. It was a city of romance.

Vicente Fernandez sang as he sold tacos in the Colonia Libertad. Carlos Santana played at "Mikes Bar". Rita Hayworth was discovered as a dancer at the Aguascalientes Casino. All to become international stars.

And the fights. What great fights. Fighters like Saldivar,Olivares,Napoles,Laguna,Sugar Ray,Davey Moore,Archie Moore,Chavez,Sugar Ramos,Zarate. What exciting memories.

However,what I described is just about gone, and in the final stages of vanishing. Oh,the "sin" is still there. "Sin" will be probably be the last thing to go. Because,let's face it,all those other things I described wouldn't have happened without it.

Rick Farris wrote:Armando Muniz . . .

I'll see Armando Muniz this weekend, at the WBHOF's "Women in Boxing" luncheon. He and I are to give the "Ten Count" for boxing personalities who died within the last year. I mentioned this thread to him at our last board meeting, and he said he'd check it out.

I'm pretty sure that Mando would accept my invitation to join us, as did "El Gato". Perhaps some of the posters with questions, regarding the Leonard fight, and others, would like to direct them directly to the former welterweight contender. Lot's of great history surrounds this L.A. legend.

A lot of these tales come from a poster on another thread, who boasts of his prison time spent with wiseguys, who let him in on the secrets. Some of his stories I know to be true, as does everybody else, however, his claim regarding Muniz-Leonard is false. It was well known that Mando's manager, Vic Weiss, was murdered in the late 70's. This adds to the intrigue of the story regarding the Leonard fight. All crap!

Anyway, let's see what Muniz has to say about it. Does this sound reasonable? I'll try to make it happen.

-Rick Farris

Fantastic. Mando looks like a guy who really cares about the sport and the fighters left behind. A genuine good guy.

diego dude,

Are we going to see you on the father & son luncheon on April 12?

Its 4:17am and my wife and I are up drinking coffee and lying to each other.

kikibalt wrote:Its 4:17am and my wife and I are up drinking coffee and lying to each other.

In England, we drink tea and lie.

dagosd2000 wrote:

kikibalt wrote:Beer Time!!

Hey Buddy
There used to be a place on the corner of 4th and Revolucion called The Old Heidelburg. It was a German restaurant owned by German/Mexicans. Downstairs in the restaurant they served German food,but upstairs they had this open air patio that overlooked the city. They'd have a jazz quintet that played latin jazz. Timbales,conga drums,bongos. They had a vibraphone. A sax. A real easy sound. We'd go up there after getting a little help from the drugstore and drink "Bohemia" beer. On a summer night it was the most relaxing place in the world. About 30 years ago they tore it down and put in a department store for tourists.

diego dude,

Circa 1960, some friends and my wife and I are hitting the nite clubs on the Revolucion, as we were walking down the Boulevard, or is it Avenue? we heard R&B music coming from one of the clubs, we go in, sit down order some drinks, after a drink or two we hit the dance floor, now these guys are playing good R&B music, all in English of course, now I get in the mood for a slow number, so I ask one of the guys in the band if they could play James Brown's "Please,Please" he tells me that they don't know it, after a couple of more songs they start playing my song, I tell my wife "what the hell?", as it turned out, the guys were from T.J. and didn't speak English at all, they just knew the words of a song and sang it.

I have a cousin like that, Mario, who is half Chicano and half Italian, who doesn't speak Spanish, oh he can speak a word or two, but not enough to hold a conversation, but man can he sing in Spanish, not as good as "El Rey" but he sing all the same songs.

bennie wrote:

kikibalt wrote:Its 4:17am and my wife and I are up drinking coffee and lying to each other.

In England, we drink tea and lie.

Bennie,

You have to start drinking coffee dude!!

raylawpc wrote:

bennie wrote:

kikibalt wrote:
Sean O'Grady and father Pat

The Bubblegum Kid. One of the more memorable boxing nicknames, although O'Grady and family were a bit of a nightmare.

And a nickname he absolutely loathed.

I guess whether or not one is a "nightmare" depends on one's perspective. I have good memories of my association with the O'Gradys.

True. One thing is for sure, O'Grady should never have rescinded his world lightweight title after winning it so brilliantly against Kenty. A good-looking white kid who can fight and looks set to make millions - and he (or should I say his dad) throws it all away.

kikibalt wrote:diego dude,

Are we going to see you on the father & son luncheon on April 12?

Yeah,

I told you I'd be there. I thought my wife was going to Michoacan,but she said she's going to be here. That means I have to tell my girlfriend she can't go. It's me and my wife's wedding anniversary,so I told her I'd take her to a real romantic spot. Like a place full of ex prizefighters. I figure it's better than buying her some ring she won't wear.

kikibalt wrote:

dagosd2000 wrote:

kikibalt wrote:Beer Time!!

Hey Buddy
There used to be a place on the corner of 4th and Revolucion called The Old Heidelburg. It was a German restaurant owned by German/Mexicans. Downstairs in the restaurant they served German food,but upstairs they had this open air patio that overlooked the city. They'd have a jazz quintet that played latin jazz. Timbales,conga drums,bongos. They had a vibraphone. A sax. A real easy sound. We'd go up there after getting a little help from the drugstore and drink "Bohemia" beer. On a summer night it was the most relaxing place in the world. About 30 years ago they tore it down and put in a department store for tourists.

diego dude,

Circa 1960, some friends and my wife and I are hitting the nite clubs on the Revolucion, as we were walking down the Boulevard, or is it Avenue? we heard R&B music coming from one of the clubs, we go in, sit down order some drinks, after a drink or two we hit the dance floor, now these guys are playing good R&B music, all in English of course, now I get in the mood for a slow number, so I ask one of the guys in the band if they could play James Brown's "Please,Please" he tells me that they don't know it, after a couple of more songs they start playing my song, I tell my wife "what the hell?", as it turned out, the guys were from T.J. and didn't speak English at all, they just knew the words of a song and sang it.

I have a cousin like that, Mario, who is half Chicano and half Italian, who doesn't speak Spanish, oh he can speak a word or two, but not enough to hold a conversation, but man can he sing in Spanish, not as good as "El Rey" but he sing all the same songs.

Hey Buddy
You know how many times I've brought my brother in laws with me to serenade a "chula" by her bedroom window? Christ,I don't even know what I'm singing half the time,but it's the feeling that counts.

One time there was a family next to my brother in law's house in Jiquilpan. 17 in the family. 12 girls and they were all "hueras". I'm sitting out front one morning and one of the girls(she had to be around 16) goes up the street with this bucket to get some water at the well. I didn't notice her on the way up,but when she was walking back she turned her face towards me and gave me a little smile. She had this long golden hair that went down her back. She wore this plain farmer's daughters dress and she was barefooted. The "thunderbolt" struck and it was over. Did plenty of singing out side her window. Her name was Ibelia. I used to sing that Pedro Infante song"Las Cartas de Ufemia",but instead of saying Ufemia,I'd say Ibelia.

40 years later when I see my brother in law,we still say"Ufeeeemia". Ibelia lives in the next town over. She's married and has four sons. My brother in law says she's still pretty and wears her hair long. Everytime he sees her,Ibelia still asks about me. Ah,Los Caminos de Michoacan. Mi rincon en el cielo.

kikibalt wrote:Its 4:17am and my wife and I are up drinking coffee and lying to each other.

One Last Thing
Often the lies are more beautifull than the truth. Ibelia probably knows that.

bennie wrote:

raylawpc wrote:

bennie wrote: The Bubblegum Kid. One of the more memorable boxing nicknames, although O'Grady and family were a bit of a nightmare.

And a nickname he absolutely loathed.

I guess whether or not one is a "nightmare" depends on one's perspective. I have good memories of my association with the O'Gradys.

True. One thing is for sure, O'Grady should never have rescinded his world lightweight title after winning it so brilliantly against Kenty. A good-looking white kid who can fight and looks set to make millions - and he (or should I say his dad) throws it all away.

Sean’s dad was a big admirer Cus D’Amato’s handling of Floyd Patterson, and believed Floyd kept the title for as long as he did only because of Cus’ skilled management in matching Floyd with the Pete Rademachers and Roy Harrises of the world instead of contenders like Eddie Machen and Zora Folley. He always told me that if he ever had a champion, he would manage that champion exactly as Cus managed Patterson.

So, Pat wanted to give Sean some easier fights than a mandatory defense against Noel, the WBA No. 1 contender. Pat forgot there was a difference between managing an undisputed heavyweight champion in the 1950s and a WBA lightweight champion in the early 1980s. As a result, Pat balked at the WBA's requirment, and Sean got stripped of his title.

raylawpc wrote:

bennie wrote:

raylawpc wrote: And a nickname he absolutely loathed.

I guess whether or not one is a "nightmare" depends on one's perspective. I have good memories of my association with the O'Gradys.

True. One thing is for sure, O'Grady should never have rescinded his world lightweight title after winning it so brilliantly against Kenty. A good-looking white kid who can fight and looks set to make millions - and he (or should I say his dad) throws it all away.

Sean’s dad was a big admirer Cus D’Amato’s handling of Floyd Patterson, and believed Floyd kept the title for as long as he did only because of Cus’ skilled management in matching Floyd with the Pete Rademachers and Roy Harrises of the world instead of contenders like Eddie Machen and Zora Folley. He always told me that if he ever had a champion, he would manage that champion exactly as Cus managed Patterson.

So, Pat wanted to give Sean some easier fights than a mandatory defense against Noel, the WBA No. 1 contender. Pat forgot there was a difference between managing an undisputed heavyweight champion in the 1950s and a WBA lightweight champion in the early 1980s. As a result, Pat balked at the WBA's requirment, and Sean got stripped of his title.

Bizarre. He would have done Noel and in turn Frias and then came that man Mancini. Like I say, millions.

Sean fought here in Chicago on the Collins-Lapaglia card in 83.
He fought Johnny "the heat" Verderosa. Sean went toe to toe with him and got stopped.
I was a little surprised at that one.
He fought Johnnys fight I guess.
I think it was Seans last fight.

Yep, that was the last one for Sean.

dagosd2000 wrote:

kikibalt wrote:diego dude,

Are we going to see you on the father & son luncheon on April 12?

Yeah,

I told you I'd be there. I thought my wife was going to Michoacan,but she said she's going to be here. That means I have to tell my girlfriend she can't go. It's me and my wife's wedding anniversary,so I told her I'd take her to a real romantic spot. Like a place full of ex prizefighters. I figure it's better than buying her some ring she won't wear.

Great!, it'll be nice meeting you and the BOSS!!.

Verderosa got plenty of press as a boxing punk rocker - but he could fight. In fact, looking at his record, Boza was the only one to really turn him over.
Boza was a bloody good super-featherweight.

Expug wrote:Sean fought here in Chicago on the Collins-Lapaglia card in 83.
He fought Johnny "the heat" Verderosa. Sean went toe to toe with him and got stopped.
I was a little surprised at that one.
He fought Johnnys fight I guess.
I think it was Seans last fight.

I sign Frankie to fight Verderosa for 30k, and they backed out of the fight, so we sued and got 15k without fighting.

kikibalt wrote:

Expug wrote:Sean fought here in Chicago on the Collins-Lapaglia card in 83.
He fought Johnny "the heat" Verderosa. Sean went toe to toe with him and got stopped.
I was a little surprised at that one.
He fought Johnnys fight I guess.
I think it was Seans last fight.

I sign Frankie to fight Verderosa for 30k, and they backed out of the fight, so we sued and got 15k without fighting.

Interesting. What year was this, Frankie?

bennie wrote:

kikibalt wrote:

Expug wrote:Sean fought here in Chicago on the Collins-Lapaglia card in 83.
He fought Johnny "the heat" Verderosa. Sean went toe to toe with him and got stopped.
I was a little surprised at that one.
He fought Johnnys fight I guess.
I think it was Seans last fight.

I sign Frankie to fight Verderosa for 30k, and they backed out of the fight, so we sued and got 15k without fighting.

Interesting. What year was this, Frankie?

1982-83, Can't really remember the exact year.

Do you know how Limon is these days?