BoxRec

raylawpc wrote:

kikibalt wrote:

Expug wrote:Thanks Tom.
Over the years here in Chicgo we have had tremendous amateurs who for whatever reason, couldnt quitemake it over the hump as pros.
Dan will remember some Im sure.
Wayne Lynum and Randy Smith come to mind. There are a bunch more. As I mentioned before,Leaving town to start a pro career would have been a good idea for some of these guys.At least back 20-30 years ago. Now, I have no idea.

"Great amateurs boxers" for some reason or other don't make great pro fighters, we had some great amateurs, some national champions here in L.A. who as pros never got to be more then club fighters.

I know that none of you guys like him and probably hate it when I bring him up, but O'Grady felt that a long amateur career made it more difficult to transition to a successful pro career. Guys like Bubba Busceme seem to support that theory. More than 40 or 50 fights were "too many" in his opinion.

I agree that a very long amateur career is not good if you want to have a good pro career, so if that is what O'Grady meant I agree with him.

Pancho Villa

raylawpc wrote:Okay, you asked for it.





















And my personal favorites:

Losing is a bitch, ain't it?

kikibalt wrote:

raylawpc wrote: I know that none of you guys like him and probably hate it when I bring him up, but O'Grady felt that a long amateur career made it more difficult to transition to a successful pro career. Guys like Bubba Busceme seem to support that theory. More than 40 or 50 fights were "too many" in his opinion.

I agree that a very long amateur career is not good if you want to have a good pro career, so if that is what O'Grady meant I agree with him.

That's exactly what he meant.

Rick Farris wrote:

raylawpc wrote:Okay, you asked for it.





















And my personal favorites:

Losing is a bitch, ain't it?

Haven't lost yet. Let's see what the economy looks like and how safe we are in four years.

Are you saying Tom, that John McBush won?

kikibalt wrote:

Expug wrote:Thanks Tom.
Over the years here in Chicgo we have had tremendous amateurs who for whatever reason, couldnt quitemake it over the hump as pros.
Dan will remember some Im sure.
Wayne Lynum and Randy Smith come to mind. There are a bunch more. As I mentioned before,Leaving town to start a pro career would have been a good idea for some of these guys.At least back 20-30 years ago. Now, I have no idea.

"Great amateurs boxers" for some reason or other don't make great pro fighters, we had some great amateurs, some national champions here in L.A. who as pros never got to be more then club fighters.

Thurman Durden . . .

The name Thurman Durden comes to mind.
Johnny Flores had high hopes for this Nat'l GG's champ.
A later era? He'd likely be a champion a few years later, however, not back then.
Being the best in L.A. often meant being the best in the world.
Today, the headliners of Durden's era rest comfortably among the best in boxing history.
____________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Clay Hodges . . .

This is another example of a National Golden Gloves heavyweight champ from 1967, not making it as a pro.
First off, Clay was the real deal as an amateur. In 1964, he lost a close decision to Joe Frazier in the '64 Olympic Trials.
In 1965, he fights Jerry Quarry in the Western Region GG's final. Hodges floors Jerry twice, but loses a disputed decision.
In 1967, he wins the GG Nationals. In early 1968 he scores two unam. dec. wins over George Foreman.
Later that year Foreman wins a gold medal.

Clay, labeled a career amateur (he was age 28) turned pro.
In his pro debut scores an easy decision over Jimmy Young.
He wins a few more, suffers an eye injury and is finished.

Frank, do you remember another Nat'l champ from '67, Paul Bad Horse, Johnny's native American middleweight?
Johnny believed that Paul could be a great pro. However, he had drinking problems, etc.
Wasn't meant to be.


-Rick Farris

kikibalt wrote:Are you saying Tom, that John McBush won?

No, I'm saying that we don't know yet whether the American people won in this election. And we won't know that until we can look back in 2012 and say we're better off than we were in 2008.

I knew posting those cartoons was a bad idea.

raylawpc wrote:

kikibalt wrote:Are you saying Tom, that John McBush won?

No, I'm saying that we don't know yet whether the American people won in this election. And we won't know that until we can look back in 2012 and say we're better off than we were in 2008.

I knew posting those cartoons was a bad idea.

No, posting the toons was not a bad idea, but the American people won last November, we voted and the guy that won, won by a landslide or real close to it, so people that backed McBush have to deal with it and for the good of the country get behind the guy that won.... DD

kikibalt wrote:

raylawpc wrote:

kikibalt wrote:Are you saying Tom, that John McBush won?

No, I'm saying that we don't know yet whether the American people won in this election. And we won't know that until we can look back in 2012 and say we're better off than we were in 2008.

I knew posting those cartoons was a bad idea.

No, posting the toons was not a bad idea, but the American people won last November, we voted and the guy that won, won by a landslide or real close to it, so people that backed McBush have to deal with it and for the good of the country get behind the guy that won.... DD

I think that was once referred to as "The American Way".
The country will rebound despite the mind set of middle America.

Rick Farris wrote:

kikibalt wrote:

Expug wrote:Thanks Tom.
Over the years here in Chicgo we have had tremendous amateurs who for whatever reason, couldnt quitemake it over the hump as pros.
Dan will remember some Im sure.
Wayne Lynum and Randy Smith come to mind. There are a bunch more. As I mentioned before,Leaving town to start a pro career would have been a good idea for some of these guys.At least back 20-30 years ago. Now, I have no idea.

"Great amateurs boxers" for some reason or other don't make great pro fighters, we had some great amateurs, some national champions here in L.A. who as pros never got to be more then club fighters.

Thurman Durden . . .

The name Thurman Durden comes to mind.
Johnny Flores had high hopes for this Nat'l GG's champ.
A later era? He'd likely be a champion a few years later, however, not back then.
Being the best in L.A. often meant being the best in the world.
Today, the headliners of Durden's era rest comfortably among the best in boxing history.
____________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Clay Hodges . . .

This is another example of a National Golden Gloves heavyweight champ from 1967, not making it as a pro.
First off, Clay was the real deal as an amateur. In 1964, he lost a close decision to Joe Frazier in the '64 Olympic Trials.
In 1965, he fights Jerry Quarry in the Western Region GG's final. Hodges floors Jerry twice, but loses a disputed decision.
In 1967, he wins the GG Nationals. In early 1968 he scores two unam. dec. wins over George Foreman.
Later that year Foreman wins a gold medal.

Clay, labeled a career amateur (he was age 28) turned pro.
In his pro debut scores an easy decision over Jimmy Young.
He wins a few more, suffers an eye injury and is finished.

Frank, do you remember another Nat'l champ from '67, Paul Bad Horse, Johnny's native American middleweight?
Johnny believed that Paul could be a great pro. However, he had drinking problems, etc.
Wasn't meant to be.


-Rick Farris

Yes, I remember Bad Horse well, like Roy Hollis after him he didn't do much in the pros

Rick Farris wrote:

kikibalt wrote:

kikibalt wrote:Are you saying Tom, that John McBush won?

No, I'm saying that we don't know yet whether the American people won in this election. And we won't know that until we can look back in 2012 and say we're better off than we were in 2008.

I knew posting those cartoons was a bad idea.
No, posting the toons was not a bad idea, but the American people won last November, we voted and the guy that won, won by a landslide or real close to it, so people that backed McBush have to deal with it and for the good of the country get behind the guy that won.... DD

I think that was once referred to as "The American Way".
The country will rebound despite the mind set of middle America.

The American way now is to be a sore loser.....

The American way now is to be a sore loser.....
____________________________________________________________________________________________________________

The losers actually root for the winner to fail.
The negative energy defines America's REAL problem.
Good people thinking bad thoughts.

Waiting for Bob . . .

I've done several films with Robert Redford. The first was "The Electric Horseman" with Jane Fonda, which we shot in Las Vegas,
Saint George, Utah and on stage in L.A. Next was when he directed "Ordinary People", then "The Natural", and "Havana" in the Dominican Republic.
The last was "Sneakers" with Sidney Potier and River Phoenix.

We aren't exactly old friends, but were friendly on the set, he always remembers my name and initiates a little boxing dialogue.
While in the Domincan Republic, we were staying at the Jaragua Resort in Santa Domingo.
Leonard and Duran III was going to be fought.
To assure the crew be able to watch it, he bought the fight for the entire hotel, every room.

When we speak on set, he occasionally brings up a boxer he likes, and it'll usually be somebody I'd like to see lose.
Redford liked Leonard, me Duran. I liked Chavez, he liked Whitaker. He was an Ali guy, I favored Frazier. You get the picture.

He is truly a gifted actor and perhaps, more so, a director. "A River Runs Thru It", just another example of his directorial talents.
You see different directors work different ways. Redford is an "actor's director."
He spends time sitting with the cast as they approach each scene, it's a long process, it takes time and we do a lot of waiting.
On a mega-million dollar film, you have that license to not to hurry. But on TV, you are expected to have 50 shots in the can each day.
We move fast in TV, big budget films provide more time, generally speaking.

Other directors, especially the Italians and Eastern European's, will spend more time composing a shot as a painter would a portrait.
They're background in art comes thru in how their films are photographed, they are involved with the film's overall look.
However, Robert Redford makes sure he's got the best cinematographer, production designer, etc. to create the proper look for the story.
He's about the talent.

When we were shooting "The Natural" in Buffalo, N.Y. in 1983, We'd often have a 7am set call at the baseball stadium where we were filming.
The actor's make-up call was usually a half-hour prior to crew call, even earlier on the days Kim Bassinger was working.
Redford would have a 6:30 make-up call and not roll in until about ten in the morning.
The set would be lit, the other actors had done a "dry run" rehersal, retreated to their motor homes.
Awhile later, I'm in the parking lot where our entire company of trucks has formed a small village.
I'm playing catch with a sound man, who'd grabbed a hard ball and a couple of gloves from the prop department.

All of a sudden we hear the sound of Redford's Porsche Carrera pulling into the lot.
We see the car pull up to the make-up trailer and park.
The actor pops out of the front seat, wearing a white cotton under-shirt, levi's and and scuffed cowboy boots.
A transportation coordinator approaches the actor smiling, Redford smiles, hands the man his car keyes and steps into the make-up trailer.

His hair-stylist, Sue Shwaree, and make-up artist, Gary Liddiard go to work on the sun-dried skin of the one-time "Sundance Kid."
The 46-year-old actor was obviously an outdoorsman, snow skier, former high school athlete.
He spent a lot of time under the sun. His fair complexion showed a lot of wrinkes in the back of his heavily lined neck.
When lighting Redford's close-up, his facial warts are also a concern. His rugged personna accepts the flaws, but we avoid enhancing their presence.

When his make-up is being applied and hair styled, Robert Redford usually reads. And when he's into a story, he won't stop reading until finished.
He doesn't care who is waiting or how much time is being wasted. When you are Robert Redford, you have more latitude than most.
He shows up late, and pretty much works when he's ready to work.
We on the crew could care less, we get paid by the hour and are away from home anyway. And besides, it's Rober Redford and we like him.

In the Domincan Republic, the largest set ever built for a motion picture, four blocks of downtown "Havana" was constructed for the movie.
We had crew members who'd been in the Navy in the late 50's, had visted Havana before Castro.
They were amazed at the exact reproduction of downtown Havana. "This is just how it was . . ", claimed a wardrobe supervisor.
The costumer pointed to a bar across the street from where we stood, "That's the Floridita. That was Hemmingway's hangout!"
He looked as if he had actually stepped back in time. However, the set was a facade, walls with no insides.
False fronts, but they looked real to the eye, and more important, the camera.

On set, we'd break for lunch. Afterwards, we'd throw the football as director Sydney Pollack paced in front of the camera.
The four-time Academy Award winning director was waiting for his star to emerge from his motor home. Lunch had been over an hour.
Finally, out of desperation, he walks to the motor home, enters and then returns minutes later.

"He's reading a book, just about finished with the chapter. He'll be here in a moment."
In due course, Bob Redford surfaced from his motor home.
He'd rehearse with the director and co-stars Robert Duvall and Darren McGavin for nearly an hour.
Then we'd shoot. We'd finish before sunset. Return to the hotel and do what film crews do on location.

The first film I worked with Robert Redford, The Electric Horseman, was also directed by Sydney Pollack.
On that one, same thing, Redford would keep everybody waiting at times. Pollack paced, tried to roust him, we waited and then shot.
Willie Nelson was in that one, too. A real fun shoot.

However, you'd think that Sydney Pollack would know by now (sadly he passed recently).
He directed seven Redford pics, including "Out of Africa".

It was usually a wait with Robert Redford. But as I mentioned earlier, he was worth the wait.


-Rick Farris

Rick Farris wrote:The American way now is to be a sore loser.....
____________________________________________________________________________________________________________

The losers actually root for the winner to fail.
The negative energy defines America's REAL problem.
Good people thinking bad thoughts.

I'm truly sorry you and Frank think I'm a sore loser.

raylawpc wrote:

Rick Farris wrote:The American way now is to be a sore loser.....
____________________________________________________________________________________________________________

The losers actually root for the winner to fail.
The negative energy defines America's REAL problem.
Good people thinking bad thoughts.

I'm truly sorry you and Frank think I'm a sore loser.

But we love you Tom....

Amanda in Spain. Cadiz, 2009

kikibalt wrote:

raylawpc wrote:

Rick Farris wrote:The American way now is to be a sore loser.....
____________________________________________________________________________________________________________

The losers actually root for the winner to fail.
The negative energy defines America's REAL problem.
Good people thinking bad thoughts.

I'm truly sorry you and Frank think I'm a sore loser.

But we love you Tom....

Yep. We'd stand-up for you any day

One of the crazy Italian dames having a cigar with my buddy Marcos. "Culo,culo!!!" Cadiz,Spain 2009

dagosd2000 wrote:

Amanda in Spain. Cadiz, 2009

Roger

Amanda is growing up to be a beautiful young lady, I know that you and Maria are real proud of her, as you should be....

kikibalt wrote:

dagosd2000 wrote:

Amanda in Spain. Cadiz, 2009

Roger

Amanda is growing up to be a beautiful young lady, I know that you and Marie are real proud of her, as you should be....

Thanks Frank
She's on her way. I'll be glad when she flies the nest. In a way it wears me out,but Amanda,Adam,and especially Maria really have a blast over there. I don't want to let them down. So off to work I go

OUR PRESIDENT OVERSEAS

There's been some political give and take I see. Last year when I went to Europe,George Bush was a dirty word. This year,Obama is a hope. The Europeans I talked to(Swiss,Germans,Spanish,Italians,and French)believe Obama is going to straighten the world out. There even were a couple of Canadians that thought like that.And a gal from Dubais. Quite a cross section. Straightening out the world is a monumental task. I don't recall anyone,even a U.S. President who has accomplished that. But those people overseas really are behind this guy. I only hope the people around Barak Obama are really behind him. Remember Caesar.

Expug wrote:Thanks Tom.
Over the years here in Chicgo we have had tremendous amateurs who for whatever reason, couldnt quitemake it over the hump as pros.
Dan will remember some Im sure.
Wayne Lynum and Randy Smith come to mind. There are a bunch more. As I mentioned before,Leaving town to start a pro career would have been a good idea for some of these guys.At least back 20-30 years ago. Now, I have no idea.

Brian, your post made me think of an uncanny obituary I recently saw. The name Julian Quezada recently popped up. He was in his late 30s I believe and it stated how one of his most cherished moments was winning the Chicago Golden Gloves. Between 1980 and '90 I was an ABF boxing judge and it wasn't just something I did in my spare time, I really loved it and got to know every fighter and their styles. One of them was Julian Quezada who was a decent fighter with a rock jaw. Around '86 I get a call to work a fight show at Faces on Rush St. These private shows were cool because they would always throw us officials a couple of bucks. The place is abuzz over a kid that's fighting whom I had never seen as he had just moved to the midwest. They introduce his opponent first, who was Quezada and then they announce the hotshot. "In the red corner, the Mississippi Golden Glove champion of 1979, 1980, 1981, 1982.....etc." I say to myself, "OK hotshot, now you're in Chicago and you're fighting Julian Quezada." But man, was I wrong. Hotshot blew him away in the 1st round. I was stunned. Nobody ever did that to Julian Quezada, until he met Kelcie Banks at Faces on Rush. I followed Banks closely, thought his skills were unbelievable, watched him win the Nat'ls. But by '88 something was wrong, he was missing a step and he barely qualified for the Olympics in close fights with Eddie Hopson. In the Olympics he was blown away in the 1st round of the 1st round of the tourney. After 400 fights as an amateur, Banks was spent. His pro career was dismal. God only knows what he's doing today. I agree with O'Grady, that long amateur career can be as detrimental as a long pro career.

Scartissue

Thanks Dan.
I remember Kelcie Banks also.Another guy was Kenny Gould. I remember seeing him fight in a smoker at The Union League Club downtown.
He was a hotshot at that time also. I remember thinking he slapped a bit. Didnt really have a pro style. I dont think things gelled with him either in the pros. Terry McGroom was another one.

In the oldest quarter of the oldest city in Europe is life's oldest profession. Cadiz,Spain