BoxRec

p4p1 wrote:I hate to say it but submission fighters that aren't legit world champions normally quickly get found out once they're in the UFC against guys with TDD or elite grappling. Conor's skill standing isn't good, he gets by on power, timing and length. That leads me to believe that an amazing striking game won't be developed in that gym. People raved about Gunnars grappling and then Maia made him look like a child, Featherweight has some great grapplers and always will have great grapplers.

This kid looks to have pretty proficient striking. I have to disagree with you on Conor's striking. I don't think it's fundamentally sound, but it has shown to be very sharp and effective. He isn't great defensively. But, offensively, he is pretty top notch. He comes at awkward angles, sets up shots well, and is very precise. Of course he has power as well.

Impractical Poster wrote:

p4p1 wrote:I hate to say it but submission fighters that aren't legit world champions normally quickly get found out once they're in the UFC against guys with TDD or elite grappling. Conor's skill standing isn't good, he gets by on power, timing and length. That leads me to believe that an amazing striking game won't be developed in that gym. People raved about Gunnars grappling and then Maia made him look like a child, Featherweight has some great grapplers and always will have great grapplers.

This kid looks to have pretty proficient striking. I have to disagree with you on Conor's striking. I don't think it's fundamentally sound, but it has shown to be very sharp and effective. He isn't great defensively. But, offensively, he is pretty top notch. He comes at awkward angles, sets up shots well, and is very precise. Of course he has power as well.

That's where we are going to disagree because you can't say someone has a great offence when it consistently leaves them so open for counters. Splitting hairs obviously but I think we are mostly in agreement that it's natural/physical gifts that have Conor at the top and not good technique. Ie if he had no power we never would've heard of him. I don't think his angles are that great, they're just pretty standard southpaw angles that are helped by opponents jumping face first or just overreaching because of his length.

Look at the kind of striking someone as skilled and physically gifted as Jacare had to develop to be competitive at the top.

p4p1 wrote:

Impractical Poster wrote:

p4p1 wrote:I hate to say it but submission fighters that aren't legit world champions normally quickly get found out once they're in the UFC against guys with TDD or elite grappling. Conor's skill standing isn't good, he gets by on power, timing and length. That leads me to believe that an amazing striking game won't be developed in that gym. People raved about Gunnars grappling and then Maia made him look like a child, Featherweight has some great grapplers and always will have great grapplers.

This kid looks to have pretty proficient striking. I have to disagree with you on Conor's striking. I don't think it's fundamentally sound, but it has shown to be very sharp and effective. He isn't great defensively. But, offensively, he is pretty top notch. He comes at awkward angles, sets up shots well, and is very precise. Of course he has power as well.

That's where we are going to disagree because you can't say someone has a great offence when it consistently leaves them so open for counters. Splitting hairs obviously but I think we are mostly in agreement that it's natural/physical gifts that have Conor at the top and not good technique. Ie if he had no power we never would've heard of him. I don't think his angles are that great, they're just pretty standard southpaw angles that are helped by opponents jumping face first or just overreaching because of his length.

I think massive offenses, and a good chin make up for defensive flaws in a lot of cases. It has worked for a lot of boxers through the ages... mostly Mexicans.

I can agree that Conor is physically talented. He has great reflexes. He is so awkward, powerful, fast that it allows him some leeway defensively. He has shown to have a pretty solid chin... thus far. He did get stung by Nate, but I feel that had more to do with fatigue at that point.

BTW, I can't believe I am defending Conor... But, I try to be fair. Don't get me wrong... I long for the day that Conor gets his clock cleaned. The Nate submission is one of the most satisfying fights I've seen... alongside Hendo/Bisping I, Tito/Vargas, and Maidana/Broner

Impractical Poster wrote:

p4p1 wrote:

Impractical Poster wrote: This kid looks to have pretty proficient striking. I have to disagree with you on Conor's striking. I don't think it's fundamentally sound, but it has shown to be very sharp and effective. He isn't great defensively. But, offensively, he is pretty top notch. He comes at awkward angles, sets up shots well, and is very precise. Of course he has power as well.

That's where we are going to disagree because you can't say someone has a great offence when it consistently leaves them so open for counters. Splitting hairs obviously but I think we are mostly in agreement that it's natural/physical gifts that have Conor at the top and not good technique. Ie if he had no power we never would've heard of him. I don't think his angles are that great, they're just pretty standard southpaw angles that are helped by opponents jumping face first or just overreaching because of his length.

I think massive offenses, and a good chin make up for defensive flaws in a lot of cases. It has worked for a lot of boxers through the ages... mostly Mexicans.

I can agree that Conor is physically talented. He has great reflexes. He is so awkward, powerful, fast that it allows him some leeway defensively. He has shown to have a pretty solid chin... thus far. He did get stung by Nate, but I feel that had more to do with fatigue at that point.

BTW, I can't believe I am defending Conor... But, I try to be fair. Don't get me wrong... I long for the day that Conor gets his clock cleaned. The Nate submission is one of the most satisfying fights I've seen... alongside Hendo/Bisping I, Tito/Vargas, and Maidana/Broner

I don't think you'll have to wait long.

Impractical Poster wrote:

p4p1 wrote:

Impractical Poster wrote: This kid looks to have pretty proficient striking. I have to disagree with you on Conor's striking. I don't think it's fundamentally sound, but it has shown to be very sharp and effective. He isn't great defensively. But, offensively, he is pretty top notch. He comes at awkward angles, sets up shots well, and is very precise. Of course he has power as well.

That's where we are going to disagree because you can't say someone has a great offence when it consistently leaves them so open for counters. Splitting hairs obviously but I think we are mostly in agreement that it's natural/physical gifts that have Conor at the top and not good technique. Ie if he had no power we never would've heard of him. I don't think his angles are that great, they're just pretty standard southpaw angles that are helped by opponents jumping face first or just overreaching because of his length.

I think massive offenses, and a good chin make up for defensive flaws in a lot of cases. It has worked for a lot of boxers through the ages... mostly Mexicans.

I can agree that Conor is physically talented. He has great reflexes. He is so awkward, powerful, fast that it allows him some leeway defensively. He has shown to have a pretty solid chin... thus far. He did get stung by Nate, but I feel that had more to do with fatigue at that point.

BTW, I can't believe I am defending Conor... But, I try to be fair. Don't get me wrong... I long for the day that Conor gets his clock cleaned. The Nate submission is one of the most satisfying fights I've seen... alongside Hendo/Bisping I, Tito/Vargas, and Maidana/Broner

He's also very good at controlling the distance. His power is definitely for real too, he hits like a mule, and seems to be very accurate with his shots, he doesn't throw much, but he seems to land those long range shots with real accuracy.

Assuming Aldo beats Max and Khabib gets the win. Anyone else see Aldo vs Khabib? If Conor doesn't come back in a hurry and it's doubtful he will there's no obvious title fights at either weight. No one other than Tony and Khabib are in a good position for a title fight and Aldo has beaten pretty much everyone at FW. The fight just seems to make sense. I would be super excited for that fight.

I won't rule out Ferguson, but either would assfuck also.

jamesmcdonnell wrote:

Impractical Poster wrote:

p4p1 wrote: That's where we are going to disagree because you can't say someone has a great offence when it consistently leaves them so open for counters. Splitting hairs obviously but I think we are mostly in agreement that it's natural/physical gifts that have Conor at the top and not good technique. Ie if he had no power we never would've heard of him. I don't think his angles are that great, they're just pretty standard southpaw angles that are helped by opponents jumping face first or just overreaching because of his length.

I think massive offenses, and a good chin make up for defensive flaws in a lot of cases. It has worked for a lot of boxers through the ages... mostly Mexicans.

I can agree that Conor is physically talented. He has great reflexes. He is so awkward, powerful, fast that it allows him some leeway defensively. He has shown to have a pretty solid chin... thus far. He did get stung by Nate, but I feel that had more to do with fatigue at that point.

BTW, I can't believe I am defending Conor... But, I try to be fair. Don't get me wrong... I long for the day that Conor gets his clock cleaned. The Nate submission is one of the most satisfying fights I've seen... alongside Hendo/Bisping I, Tito/Vargas, and Maidana/Broner

He's also very good at controlling the distance. His power is definitely for real too, he hits like a mule, and seems to be very accurate with his shots, he doesn't throw much, but he seems to land those long range shots with real accuracy.

This. For the standard and style of fighting he competes in, his timing and distance is great. I don't think he is particularly awkward per se but his natural striking advantages coupled with his southpaw stance makes him awkward for the discipline he competes in.

In a boxing ring he isn't particularly awkward at all, bar the mythical 'all southpaws are awkward' angle.

His fights are always intriguing because it's always a case of 'what if he doesn't land?' It's exciting either way. From the admittedly little I've seen of Ferguson I think he's being written off a bit. I wouldn't be surprised to see him beat both Khabib and then McGregor. I'm no expert though! Far from it.

lillywhite14 wrote:

jamesmcdonnell wrote:

Impractical Poster wrote: I think massive offenses, and a good chin make up for defensive flaws in a lot of cases. It has worked for a lot of boxers through the ages... mostly Mexicans.

I can agree that Conor is physically talented. He has great reflexes. He is so awkward, powerful, fast that it allows him some leeway defensively. He has shown to have a pretty solid chin... thus far. He did get stung by Nate, but I feel that had more to do with fatigue at that point.

BTW, I can't believe I am defending Conor... But, I try to be fair. Don't get me wrong... I long for the day that Conor gets his clock cleaned. The Nate submission is one of the most satisfying fights I've seen... alongside Hendo/Bisping I, Tito/Vargas, and Maidana/Broner

He's also very good at controlling the distance. His power is definitely for real too, he hits like a mule, and seems to be very accurate with his shots, he doesn't throw much, but he seems to land those long range shots with real accuracy.

This. For the standard and style of fighting he competes in, his timing and distance is great. I don't think he is particularly awkward per se but his natural striking advantages coupled with his southpaw stance makes him awkward for the discipline he competes in.

In a boxing ring he isn't particularly awkward at all, bar the mythical 'all southpaws are awkward' angle.

His fights are always intriguing because it's always a case of 'what if he doesn't land?' It's exciting either way. From the admittedly little I've seen of Ferguson I think he's being written off a bit. I wouldn't be surprised to see him beat both Khabib and then McGregor. I'm no expert though! Far from it.

Yes, in a boxing match, where there's no fear of kicks or takedowns, he'd be battered senseless, they'd just swarm him and tear him to bits in close, but for MMA, his striking style works very well.

jamesmcdonnell wrote:

lillywhite14 wrote:

jamesmcdonnell wrote:

He's also very good at controlling the distance. His power is definitely for real too, he hits like a mule, and seems to be very accurate with his shots, he doesn't throw much, but he seems to land those long range shots with real accuracy.

This. For the standard and style of fighting he competes in, his timing and distance is great. I don't think he is particularly awkward per se but his natural striking advantages coupled with his southpaw stance makes him awkward for the discipline he competes in.

In a boxing ring he isn't particularly awkward at all, bar the mythical 'all southpaws are awkward' angle.

His fights are always intriguing because it's always a case of 'what if he doesn't land?' It's exciting either way. From the admittedly little I've seen of Ferguson I think he's being written off a bit. I wouldn't be surprised to see him beat both Khabib and then McGregor. I'm no expert though! Far from it.

Yes, in a boxing match, where there's no fear of kicks or takedowns, he'd be battered senseless, they'd just swarm him and tear him to bits in close, but for MMA, his striking style works very well.

I think a huge part of the reason is many MMA guys have no great understanding of striking distance. With McGregor you either have to be out of range or in close range. He isn't effective in close and his power only seems to last for 2 rounds from what we've seen the two times he got dragged deep. He has a great straight left hand and against the elite it is his only weapon.

I think Ferguson would be a great chance to beat McGregor as well. Frankie Edgar is another guy who is capable as well though he is getting up there in age.

I'm so fornicating pumped for 209. Been watching Khabib fights and the way he handles both Johnson and RDA is so fornicating scary. I know I said that I though Aldo stood a chance and I would still be interested to see the fight but it would be almost shocking if he could keep Khabib off him. Khabibs gas tank is just insane and his striking I think is a bit underrated.

Tony is going to be an interesting matchup for him though but it's hard not to favour Khabib against anyone at 155.

I don't think I'm buying this one.

p4p1 wrote:I think a huge part of the reason is many MMA guys have no great understanding of striking distance. With McGregor you either have to be out of range or in close range. He isn't effective in close and his power only seems to last for 2 rounds from what we've seen the two times he got dragged deep. He has a great straight left hand and against the elite it is his only weapon.

I think Ferguson would be a great chance to beat McGregor as well. Frankie Edgar is another guy who is capable as well though he is getting up there in age.

Ferguson, definitely would have a chance. Frankie Edgar? No way, imo. Too small.

p4p1 wrote:I'm so effing pumped for 209. Been watching Khabib fights and the way he handles both Johnson and RDA is so effing scary. I know I said that I though Aldo stood a chance and I would still be interested to see the fight but it would be almost shocking if he could keep Khabib off him. Khabibs gas tank is just insane and his striking I think is a bit underrated.

Tony is going to be an interesting matchup for him though but it's hard not to favour Khabib against anyone at 155.

Same here. Khabib vs. Ferguson is an awesome fight. Incredibly intriguing. Woodley vs. Thompson will be good.

GSP vs Bisping is official.

For fornicate sake, 2 guys clearly deserve a shot at MW, Bisping got his gimme against Hendo. The UFC is giving GSP the Conor treatment. The UFC know that Jacare and Romero will both rape GSP, so they have to get him in against the weakest MW champ there's ever been.

Nice

Maia/masvidal is interesting. I might cover that card.

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:I don't think I'm buying this one.

I've got to if not for anything else, the Ferguson/Khabib fight. I'm not all too excited for Woodley/Thompson. But, it should be interesting to see what adjustments were made between the two camps. Overeem/Hunt should be fun. Evans/Kelly...meh. And I don't really know much about Vannata or Teymur. I'm sure I've seen them before, just don't remember them.

Paul Craig is on the fight pass prelims. He's a LHW to look out for.

Impractical Poster wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:I don't think I'm buying this one.

I've got to if not for anything else, the Ferguson/Khabib fight. I'm not all too excited for Woodley/Thompson. But, it should be interesting to see what adjustments were made between the two camps. Overeem/Hunt should be fun. Evans/Kelly...meh. And I don't really know much about Vannata or Teymur. I'm sure I've seen them before, just don't remember them.

Paul Craig is on the fight pass prelims. He's a LHW to look out for.

The main reason is, for a change, I'm really interested in boxing on the night. But I'm sure I'll cave come Saturday. The top 3 fights are interesting for sure.

Impractical Poster wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:I don't think I'm buying this one.

I've got to if not for anything else, the Ferguson/Khabib fight. I'm not all too excited for Woodley/Thompson. But, it should be interesting to see what adjustments were made between the two camps. Overeem/Hunt should be fun. Evans/Kelly...meh. And I don't really know much about Vannata or Teymur. I'm sure I've seen them before, just don't remember them.

Paul Craig is on the fight pass prelims. He's a LHW to look out for.

Vannata is fun to watch.

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:

Impractical Poster wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:I don't think I'm buying this one.

I've got to if not for anything else, the Ferguson/Khabib fight. I'm not all too excited for Woodley/Thompson. But, it should be interesting to see what adjustments were made between the two camps. Overeem/Hunt should be fun. Evans/Kelly...meh. And I don't really know much about Vannata or Teymur. I'm sure I've seen them before, just don't remember them.

Paul Craig is on the fight pass prelims. He's a LHW to look out for.

The main reason is, for a change, I'm really interested in boxing on the night. But I'm sure I'll cave come Saturday. The top 3 fights are interesting for sure.

I'll absolutely be watching the Thurman/Garcia card as well. It is scheduled to end at 11:00pm est though. So, yeah, you'll probably cave.

BTW, doesn't look like the Fonfara/Dawson bout is going to be televised on the CBS card... Is the undercard being televised on a different station?

Impractical Poster wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:

Impractical Poster wrote: I've got to if not for anything else, the Ferguson/Khabib fight. I'm not all too excited for Woodley/Thompson. But, it should be interesting to see what adjustments were made between the two camps. Overeem/Hunt should be fun. Evans/Kelly...meh. And I don't really know much about Vannata or Teymur. I'm sure I've seen them before, just don't remember them.

Paul Craig is on the fight pass prelims. He's a LHW to look out for.

The main reason is, for a change, I'm really interested in boxing on the night. But I'm sure I'll cave come Saturday. The top 3 fights are interesting for sure.

I'll absolutely be watching the Thurman/Garcia card as well. It is scheduled to end at 11:00pm est though. So, yeah, you'll probably cave.

BTW, doesn't look like the Fonfara/Dawson bout is going to be televised on the CBS card... Is the undercard being televised on a different station?

I was hoping it would be on the CBS cable channel. Could be a filler if lubin ends things early. Otherwise we'll have to snag a UK stream.

p4p1 wrote:GSP vs Bisping is official.

For eff sake, 2 guys clearly deserve a shot at MW, Bisping got his gimme against Hendo. The UFC is giving GSP the Conor treatment. The UFC know that Jacare and Romero will both rape GSP, so they have to get him in against the weakest MW champ there's ever been.

So, GSP wins the title and we get to have MMA's version of PAc vs May when he defends against Silva?

Jaywheel wrote:

p4p1 wrote:GSP vs Bisping is official.

For eff sake, 2 guys clearly deserve a shot at MW, Bisping got his gimme against Hendo. The UFC is giving GSP the Conor treatment. The UFC know that Jacare and Romero will both rape GSP, so they have to get him in against the weakest MW champ there's ever been.

So, GSP wins the title and we get to have MMA's version of PAc vs May when he defends against Silva?

More like Tito/Jones.