BoxRec

CNorkusJr wrote:Agreed Tom, I think if Jack had a nickel for every hand he shook at his restaurant in NYC, not only would he be the millionaire that he was many times over, but he probably could have been mayor for a long time too.

I have seen a few Dempsey personalized autographs over the years in which he sent the same salutation. It does take on a charm of its own compared to the standard, "Best Wishes"
or the favorite amongst boxers including my father, "Keep Punchin'".

Did your Dad ever take you to meet Dempsey? I met him in 1973, and it was one of my great boxing memories.

raylawpc wrote:

CNorkusJr wrote:Agreed Tom, I think if Jack had a nickel for every hand he shook at his restaurant in NYC, not only would he be the millionaire that he was many times over, but he probably could have been mayor for a long time too.

I have seen a few Dempsey personalized autographs over the years in which he sent the same salutation. It does take on a charm of its own compared to the standard, "Best Wishes"
or the favorite amongst boxers including my father, "Keep Punchin'".

Did your Dad ever take you to meet Dempsey? I met him in 1973, and it was one of my great boxing memories.

As a youngster growing up in my mom and dads household, a few early memories of meeting boxing greats presented itself. I was born in 1957, towards the end of my dads career (1959) and no recollection of him from his actual boxing days.There is the picture of me with Barney Ross here. I was 3 yrs old.
Growing up a young boy though,I do remember many trips to Bayonne,NJ to have dinner and gatherings at Ernie Durando's house.
Ernie (though a few years older than my dad) and my father were as close as friends can be, whether boxers or not. Ernie helped my dad turn pro out of Bayonne when my dad left the Marine Corps. Dads magr Abe Bressler had him living in nearby Jersey City.
There were very few discussions about boxing when the families met. Ernie had a son ,Ernie Jr, who went on to become a dentist. And daughter Marie,who I saw about 11 years ago last. Ernie Jr was older than me by about 6 yrs. We did kid and teen things.
On occaision, Jersey Joe Walcott would be at the house. Another time, Gus Lesnevich and host of other NJ boxers, I forgot their names, showed up.

As a teen,these same men visited us on Long Island.Again,my dad introduced me to" former champion so and so", and that would be the end of boxing talk.
In 1970, aged 13, my father took me into NYC by train to meet Jim Jacobs. Jim owned "Big Fights Inc" and was not with Cayton yet,I believe. Mr Jacobs had copies of my fathers 16mm films of the Norkus -Nardico fights and Powell I fight,that he wanted to give to him.
We had time to kill as Jim wasnt in his office(nr. new Mad Sq Garden I remembered) till afternoon.My father walked me up to a strip joint on 7th Ave to meet for the first time Jake LaMotta,who was a bouncer inside. I remembered tits more than LaMotta that day. We talked for 15 minutes or so though. I remembered though that I was just as tall height wise as him that day though.He wasnt drinking as far as I can tell and very cordial to me and his close friend,my dad. We then ventured up to Dempseys place,and went inside. Much to dad's chagrin,Jack was not there. I dont know why, I didnt ask,but my father said he "wasnt around for me to meet a "Great Champion Fighter".
I never did get to meet Jack Dempsey.
I met many others at our house and after my dad received an award from The Downtown Athletic Club in Manhattan, we attended a few dinner/events(boxing,football and baseball awards dinners ) there each year as my father was made honorary member,and we bought a table of 10 for these events. We brought dads liquor clients sometimes, but what I remember most was inviting NY Jets players as my father was good friends with Mickey Rendine and Bill Hampton. Both were long,long time Equipment mgrs with the Jets. They got some players to go with us at our table each year. They enjoyed it as much as we did as it was the home of The Heisman Trophy and the Jets players met some of their heroes too there.
That is where many of the pictures above come from that I took. Mostly the latter color shots you see over the last few pages.
Then there were the times after my father became a NYS referee and I went with him to many reffing assignments. Being "backstage " and ringside, was a great experience for me. I was older and now knew many of the greats I heard about and read about. They knew my father and it was like old times for them when all of them got together.Floyd Patterson & Jose Torres were just 2 of the NYS Athletic Comm. that were in office when my father reffed. They gave him great heavyweight assignments.They knew he could handle them well.I usually sat next to them at ringside while my father worked the fights.

Every boxer from the past eras treated me like they knew me for years,and new boxers who were fighting were very cordial to meet and I always told them I was rooting for them.
As you can imagine Tom, it was a very Special time and life for me, being with my father.
I am proud to say that even today,15 years after my dads passing, boxing greats remember my father,and tell me so after I introduce myself,as well as meeting the new kids and asking me about my father. I do get introduced at many events as "the son of former top contender Charley Norkus, who fought the likes of Ezz Charles,Pastrano,and Archie Moore and going the distance with each. Appeared on National TV 14 times....". My father's exploits and memory still gets appreciative applause from the attending crowd. Its a great feeling.
Jack Dempsey is one fellow that I would have loved to have a picture with. I'm sure you agree. Thanks for asking.

I sure would appreciate your writing story here on this site about your experience meeting Jack Dempsey. It might have been a casual visit but how would you describe meeting in my eyes "one of the top 3 Greatest Heavyweight Champs of all-time ?

What i wanna know is did either of you guys get a slice of their world famous cheesecake that they served at Jack Dempsey's resturant?

Brutu wrote:What i wanna know is did either of you guys get a slice of their world famous cheesecake that they served at Jack Dempsey's resturant?

No I didn't, but my father and mother surely had,I'm sure.
Though I did hear both of them say that "Lindy's" was the place for cheesecake after a Bdwy. Show in Manhattan.
I personally ate a few slices of Junior's cheesecakes in my time as The Fire Dept. HQ's is located right down the street in downtown Brooklyn. Though overpriced and probably over-rated, I thought Juniors has a pretty good product.
A few times,other firemen from my firehouse,would bring in cheesecakes from bakeries near them in Brooklyn and Staten Island- boy oh boy, were they good.
Jack put out a good cake,uh ?
Great times I'm sure. My firehouse was located around the corner from Mama Leone's Rest.
When Mama owned it-they fed the firehouse twice a week en gratis.
Made from scratch-homemade pasta and sauce-excellent.
When Mama & family died or retired,the Rest sold out to a corp. ownership who dragged down the food to canned Chef Boy-ar-dee levels and it bacame a tourist trap for years before finally going belly-up. A hi-rise apt.(condo) bldg stands there today.


Brutu-you been around,you got a Jack Dempsey story you want to share ?

CNorkusJr wrote:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2I92DaFxHJc

Here is link to "Splendor In The Grass" New Years Party scene

Charley first appears at the 4:55 min mark coming out of mens room with grinning face after Barbara Loden walks in and out.

6:20 mark Billy Graham and Charley with group of guys on porch

8:28- 9:00 mark fight scene, listen to Billy and Charley's first names mentioned as they beat up Beatty.

You're dad was in a movie with Warren Beatty, that is really cool. Beatty is one of the most talented people to ever work in Hollywood.

Thank You,Yes. It was a great part he and Billy Graham played in such a big Hollywood movie. Filmed at a mansion in Westchester County,New York.
Many fighters from the 40's & 50's got parts in TV shows and movies during and after their careers. They had very distinct facial features,pretty much in good shape,and was very appealing to casting directors with their outgoing personalities.
I'm sure they they provided a good sense of humor on the sets telling stories on their break times too.
Jackie Gleason was one BIG actor who relished being around fighters and athletes wherever he was.This led to many movie parts for fighters in his movies.eg. The Hustler,Requiem For A Heavyweight.

CNorkusJr wrote:

raylawpc wrote:

CNorkusJr wrote:Agreed Tom, I think if Jack had a nickel for every hand he shook at his restaurant in NYC, not only would he be the millionaire that he was many times over, but he probably could have been mayor for a long time too.

I have seen a few Dempsey personalized autographs over the years in which he sent the same salutation. It does take on a charm of its own compared to the standard, "Best Wishes"
or the favorite amongst boxers including my father, "Keep Punchin'".

Did your Dad ever take you to meet Dempsey? I met him in 1973, and it was one of my great boxing memories.

As a youngster growing up in my mom and dads household, a few early memories of meeting boxing greats presented itself. I was born in 1957, towards the end of my dads career (1959) and no recollection of him from his actual boxing days.There is the picture of me with Barney Ross here. I was 3 yrs old.
Growing up a young boy though,I do remember many trips to Bayonne,NJ to have dinner and gatherings at Ernie Durando's house.
Ernie (though a few years older than my dad) and my father were as close as friends can be, whether boxers or not. Ernie helped my dad turn pro out of Bayonne when my dad left the Marine Corps. Dads magr Abe Bressler had him living in nearby Jersey City.
There were very few discussions about boxing when the families met. Ernie had a son ,Ernie Jr, who went on to become a dentist. And daughter Marie,who I saw about 11 years ago last. Ernie Jr was older than me by about 6 yrs. We did kid and teen things.
On occaision, Jersey Joe Walcott would be at the house. Another time, Gus Lesnevich and host of other NJ boxers, I forgot their names, showed up.

As a teen,these same men visited us on Long Island.Again,my dad introduced me to" former champion so and so", and that would be the end of boxing talk.
In 1970, aged 13, my father took me into NYC by train to meet Jim Jacobs. Jim owned "Big Fights Inc" and was not with Cayton yet,I believe. Mr Jacobs had copies of my fathers 16mm films of the Norkus -Nardico fights and Powell I fight,that he wanted to give to him.
We had time to kill as Jim wasnt in his office(nr. new Mad Sq Garden I remembered) till afternoon.My father walked me up to a strip joint on 7th Ave to meet for the first time Jake LaMotta,who was a bouncer inside. I remembered tits more than LaMotta that day. We talked for 15 minutes or so though. I remembered though that I was just as tall height wise as him that day though.He wasnt drinking as far as I can tell and very cordial to me and his close friend,my dad. We then ventured up to Dempseys place,and went inside. Much to dad's chagrin,Jack was not there. I dont know why, I didnt ask,but my father said he "wasnt around for me to meet a "Great Champion Fighter".
I never did get to meet Jack Dempsey.
I met many others at our house and after my dad received an award from The Downtown Athletic Club in Manhattan, we attended a few dinner/events(boxing,football and baseball awards dinners ) there each year as my father was made honorary member,and we bought a table of 10 for these events. We brought dads liquor clients sometimes, but what I remember most was inviting NY Jets players as my father was good friends with Mickey Rendine and Bill Hampton. Both were long,long time Equipment mgrs with the Jets. They got some players to go with us at our table each year. They enjoyed it as much as we did as it was the home of The Heisman Trophy and the Jets players met some of their heroes too there.
That is where many of the pictures above come from that I took. Mostly the latter color shots you see over the last few pages.
Then there were the times after my father became a NYS referee and I went with him to many reffing assignments. Being "backstage " and ringside, was a great experience for me. I was older and now knew many of the greats I heard about and read about. They knew my father and it was like old times for them when all of them got together.Floyd Patterson & Jose Torres were just 2 of the NYS Athletic Comm. that were in office when my father reffed. They gave him great heavyweight assignments.They knew he could handle them well.I usually sat next to them at ringside while my father worked the fights.

Every boxer from the past eras treated me like they knew me for years,and new boxers who were fighting were very cordial to meet and I always told them I was rooting for them.
As you can imagine Tom, it was a very Special time and life for me, being with my father.
I am proud to say that even today,15 years after my dads passing, boxing greats remember my father,and tell me so after I introduce myself,as well as meeting the new kids and asking me about my father. I do get introduced at many events as "the son of former top contender Charley Norkus, who fought the likes of Ezz Charles,Pastrano,and Archie Moore and going the distance with each. Appeared on National TV 14 times....". My father's exploits and memory still gets appreciative applause from the attending crowd. Its a great feeling.
Jack Dempsey is one fellow that I would have loved to have a picture with. I'm sure you agree. Thanks for asking.

I sure would appreciate your writing story here on this site about your experience meeting Jack Dempsey. It might have been a casual visit but how would you describe meeting in my eyes "one of the top 3 Greatest Heavyweight Champs of all-time ?

I got to meet Dempsey at his restaurant with Pat O'Grady, Sean O'Grady, and a fighter named Humphrey McBride. At the end of a fight trip to Rhode Island, we changed our flight plans so that we could depart out of New York City, and spend a night and a day there to see the sights. (Only Pat had been to New York City.) We got in about 6 p.m., I guess, and had already eaten on the way down, but everybody agreed we should head over to Dempsey's, have a piece of cheesecake, and meet the great man.

When we got there, no Dempsey. I asked the waiter if Dempsey would be there that night. He told me that Jack was getting older and didn't come every night like he once did, but he might make it in. I was disappointed, but Pat suggested we go ahead and enjoy some cheesecake, and then go on with our sightseeing. After we got our order, I mentioned that it was too bad we didn't get to see Dempsey. Pat smiled and said, "You spoke too soon. Look behind you. He came in a few minutes ago." I turned around and, low and behold, there was Dempsey, his wife, and another gentleman sitting in Dempsey's regular booth by the front door. I have to admit, I was extremely excited and wanted to go over right away. "Just eat your cheesecake," Pat said. "He's not going anywhere."

After we finished eating, the four of us walked over to Dempsey's booth. He always strategically placed himself in a booth next to the front door and in front of a big picture window. That way, he could meet and greet everybody coming and going from the restaurant, and he could be seen from the street. The four of us went over to meet him. He was very cordial, and he and Pat talked for a few minutes about guys in the fight game they both knew. I remember being amazed that he knew Pat, and that he and Pat were on a first name basis. Sean, Humphrey and I just stood there and stared. Pat introduced all of us and said, pointing to me, "This is Tom Ray, he's the trainer." "You have young trainers down in Oklahoma, Pat," Dempsey said, and they both chuckled. I shook his hand. (I remember he had really big hands.) I finally worked up the courage and asked him if I could have his autograph. He kept a stack of postcards right in front of him on the table. The photo on the postcard was a print of the famous painting of him defeating Willard, a huge muriel painted onto the wall in the restaurant. He took one of those cards and signed it using a black felt-tip pen. As I mentioned earlier, he inscribed it, "To my friend Tom. Lots of luck Pal, Jack Dempsey." And then we left. I would't sell that autograph for a million dollars.

I think there is something very special about Dempsey. Last month, Sean and I were talking by phone and I mentioned the New York trip. "That's the trip when we met Dempsey," Sean said. "Wasn't that cool?! What a big thrill that was!" Here's a guy who's been a world champion himself and, as a broadcaster, is on a first-name basis with dozens of other world champions; yet, one of his biggest thrills in boxing was a brief meeting with Dempsey.

I agree. In my lifetime, I've been privileged to meet governors, senators, Supreme Court justices, celebrities, and lot of top fighters like Norton, Ali, etc. But nothing before or since has given me a bigger thrill than meeting the great Jack Dempsey.

Great story,Tom. He was a cut above all else. Thanks for sharing.
Getting to work side by side with The O'Gradys' was just as exhilirating,I'm sure.

Here is a site that posted many of my fathers televised fights.

Scroll down and click n the opponent you wish to see vs. Charley Norkus.

Note: The Nardico vs. Norkus I fight is in its entirety and silent.
Explained on a previous page here- there is a 5 mins hi-lite film of this fight but this site did not post it. This long version is better in that contains all 8 knockdowns of the fight.

The LaStarza vs Norkus fight is silent also.On national televised TV, the fight had sound but not on this film. Again, there is a short 5 mins hi-lite film of this fight with sound but it is not on this sight. Also, there is very little pause between rds-so you must watch carefully for when the fighters break to realize a rd ended and a new one started-Its 10 rds
in front of a sold out Cleveland Arena.

All others have sound. The Powell vs Norkus I fight and the Nardico vs Norkus I fight have power punching at its best. The Norkus vs Nardico II fight has great ring intros before the fight, and is well announced for TV for the return match 2 months after their first clash.

I am not associated, or do not know who runs this website,but I thank him for posting my fathers fights here for all to see. Enjoy :

http://sosoboxing.com/videos/boxers-a-z/charley-norkus/

wire photo from the Norkus=Ezz Charles fight 1955

A couple of article notes:
At the time of the fight, my father owned a bar called "Charley Norkus's Bar & Grill" in Manhattan.( 3rd Ave & 37th Street)The man he left in charge of running it robbed the till more than his fair share and my father closed the place.

My father was a talented landscape painter receiving many lauditory remarks about his talent. He painted since childhood and attended art school in Queens in his spare time during his pro career.

Famed CA Bandleader Art Norkus is not a relative, just a talented musician who shared a last name. My father and press decided to give him a plug.

Archie Moore's weight loss can be attributed to -Sauerkraut Juice. A steady diet while working out.

Because of your recent posts, I was looking at your dad's record again in boxrec, and I noticed that he had his last fight at Camp Lejeune. That had to be an honor for a Marine like your dad. Do you know how that happened to come about?

They remained great friends for life after their careers ended. They saw each other often when Archie came to NY City. Archie had a 16mm film copy of the fight, but my father never got a hold of it to make a copy.

I will add this: In ALL the interviews that my father did for TV,newspapers, and boxing magazines and in telling me his life stories on boxing, my father never waivered about who was "the toughest fighter he ever fought". After battles with Ezzard Charles,Willie Pastrano,Crowe Peele and Danny Nardico (just to name a few) it was always Archie Moore he said that gave him his toughest fight.
He said he simply couldn't "get in on him" to deliver his head shots or under him to go up the middle. Archie's famed "peek-a-boo" style of crossing his arms in front of his face prevented not only my father,but many opponents from attacking the great Champion. My father said it was the prime reason that Archie's longevity in the ring and his huge ring record exists today.
My father went on to say that getting hit by Archie was about the same as being hit by other fighters,but he remained strong due to his defense- and not being worn down by the end of the fight.

My father won The US Marine Heavyweight Title 1948 in San Diego,CA.
Along with that title came the All US Navy Heavyweight Champion Title and the All US Service Heavyweight Champion Title. Twice my father was in the NY Golden Gloves-in 1946 he had to bow out of the Heavy Open Finals against Bobby Isler due to hurt hand. He won the NY Silver Gloves for being in 2nd.
In 1945 he went to Semi finals and lost in Lt- Heavy Novice Division.
My father was training for the 1948 Golden Gloves but was instead picked for the US 1948 Olympic Trials as a US Marine. He went to the Semi Finals in Boston Garden where after knocking down Coley Wallace twice in the 2nd Rd, he himself got KO'd by Wallace in the 3rd ending the adventure. Coley Wallace then fought Norvell Lee in the US Olympic team Heavywt finals,where Lee won and went on to London,England where he lost in the medal Rd.
Coley Wallace could not participate as the US Heavy alternate (I believe injury)-my father was then selected as First Alternate to 48 US Olympic team as Heavywt should Mr Lee get hurt. He did not-the rest his history.Here is some early career remarks on my father.

The Charlie Powell vs Norkus 1 articles (1954)

Publicity photo of Archie Moore
(from JET June.5.1958)


http://books.google.com/books?id=i7cDAA ... pg=PA36&dq

Brutu wrote:Publicity photo of Archie Moore
(from JET June.5.1958)


http://books.google.com/books?id=i7cDAA ... pg=PA36&dq

Thank You for addition .

In the last article seen just above, a few fighters are mentioned that Al Weill was proposing to fight Rocky Marciano either before or during he was the Champion.
Hal Boylston, Ray Wilding, Danny Nardico, and Charlie Powell to name a few,

Though nothing on paper will confirm it (because it would have been against IBC rules)-my fathers mgr/trainer Dom "Ghee" Laico was abridged with Weill.
Weill sent my father in to fight Rocky prospects before Rocky did.
You had to get by my father to get to Marciano.
LaStarza was going to fight my father in Providence,but since he was cut up in his previous fight, LaSatarza pulled out and my father fought Tommy Harrison (Rocky sparmate ) that night. LaStarza eluded my father then fought Rocky and almost won,many said. My father would eventually hook up with LaStarza in Cleveland and beat him.
My father loved that role because it drew him more TV bouts and bigger paydays.
Eventually-my father had to get by Ezz Charles to fight Rocky for title-but went the distance in lopsided loss.

Another cornerman in my father's corner was Angelo Curley-noted Don Fullmer trainer. He later on would be my Godfather at my Christening.

Charley: What did your Dad say about his fight against Willie Pastrano? Did he ever get to know Willie personally?