BoxRec

ThatOne wrote:

Adamj1987 wrote:i['ve read dempsey reffed pro wrestling bouts and rocky marceiano appearing at pro wrestling bouts as well

Mayweather too... He "beat" the 425 pound Big Show.

Il Duce implied Muhammad Ali was the first boxer to affiliate himself with wrestling.

missed that post

i have a photo in a book of rocky not long before his death at stampede promotions with brett hitman hart as a child.

ali was deffinatly not the first the million dollar man (wrestler)'s dad was a boxer in the 50s

Adamj1987 wrote:

ThatOne wrote:

Adamj1987 wrote:i['ve read dempsey reffed pro wrestling bouts and rocky marceiano appearing at pro wrestling bouts as well

Mayweather too... He "beat" the 425 pound Big Show.

Il Duce implied Muhammad Ali was the first boxer to affiliate himself with wrestling.

missed that post

i have a photo in a book of rocky not long before his death at stampede promotions with brett hitman hart as a child.

ali was deffinatly not the first the million dollar man (wrestler)'s dad was a boxer in the 50s

Didnt he fight Archie Moore??

he did it was archie moores last fight in 63 i think (def the year after moore-ali)

Ezzard Charles wrestled, Joe Louis wrestled, Primo Carnera wrestled, etc etc. Jack Dempsey participated in mixed matches, and served as a referee from his time as champion and well into the 1950s at least. Lots of boxers cross the line Mike Tyson did it, Evander Holyfield did it, Buster Douglas did it, Chuck Wepner, Tony Galento, Floyd Mayweather, Scott Ledoux, Joe Frazier, Archie Moore, Jersey Joe Walcott, Leon Spinks, and many many more.

carnera wrestling

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HQUBKSy8B3U

I would like to add that judging fighters with forty, fifty, or sixty , or one hundred plus fights on desultory wins or losses is asinine. Greats like Henry Armstrong , Sugar Ray Robinson, and Williie Pep had double digit losses, with the lion's share of them coming when they were well past their prime.

Conversely the GOAT (Sic) Joe Galzaghe retired 46-0.

Il Duce wrote:Now Now Mr. That One,


You have turned yourself into a Major Liar........

I never said or implied that Muhammad Ali was the first boxer to associate himself with Wrestling.

I'm Telling On You..........

But, he did rip off the public {his adoring Sheep Following Fans} by the largest amount.

News Reporter, "Muhammad, what do you have say to your fans about the Tokyo Disaster."

Muhammad Ali, "Thank You. Thank You Very Much. Again 6,100,000 Thank You's."

News Reporter, 'Will you be doing any other Big Events."

Muhammad Ali, "Yes, I want to go over the Grand Canyon in a Jet Propelled Missle."

Klompton saw it too... That's when you were harping on the Inoki exhibition. Ironically, although the rules were convoluted that match was more legit than most boxer-wrestler matches. I think PBF hit the 425 pound Big Show with brass knuckles when the ref wasn't looking to win his match. You did the same thing when you maligned Muhammad Ali for pitching roach spray but ignored the fact Dempsey pitched "magic elixir". I would argue that the former serves a useful purpose while the latter serves no purpose at all and is potentially dangerous, especially in Dempsey's time as most of that crap was mostly alcohol. Oh, Dempsey peddled cat food too...

Il Duce wrote:Now Now Mr. That One,


You have turned yourself into a Major Liar........

I never said or implied that Muhammad Ali was the first boxer to associate himself with Wrestling.

I'm Telling On You..........

But, he did rip off the public {his adoring Sheep Following Fans} by the largest amount.

News Reporter, "Muhammad, what do you have say to your fans about the Tokyo Disaster."

Muhammad Ali, "Thank You. Thank You Very Much. Again 6,100,000 Thank You's."

News Reporter, 'Will you be doing any other Big Events."

Muhammad Ali, "Yes, I want to go over the Grand Canyon in a Jet Propelled Missle."

How exactly did Ali rip off the public against Inoki?

The rules they ended up having for that fight were retarded. when they realised that the grappler would grapple fornicate Ali the rules were changed to stop that happening.

p4p1 wrote:The rules they ended up having for that fight were retarded. when they realised that the grappler would grapple eff Ali the rules were changed to stop that happening.

A wrestler will beat a boxer with wrestling rules. A boxer will beat a wrestler with boxing rules. It's really that simple.

ThatOne wrote:

p4p1 wrote:The rules they ended up having for that fight were retarded. when they realised that the grappler would grapple eff Ali the rules were changed to stop that happening.

A wrestler will beat a boxer with wrestling rules. A boxer will beat a wrestler with boxing rules. It's really that simple.

Yes but under hybrid rules the ability to put someone with little to no grappling experience on their back is second to none and leaves the boxer/striker with nothing more than a punchers chance. Anyway before we get side tracked this is probably discussion for a different thread.

ThatOne wrote:

Il Duce wrote:Now Now Mr. That One,


You have turned yourself into a Major Liar........

I never said or implied that Muhammad Ali was the first boxer to associate himself with Wrestling.

I'm Telling On You..........

But, he did rip off the public {his adoring Sheep Following Fans} by the largest amount.

News Reporter, "Muhammad, what do you have say to your fans about the Tokyo Disaster."

Muhammad Ali, "Thank You. Thank You Very Much. Again 6,100,000 Thank You's."

News Reporter, 'Will you be doing any other Big Events."

Muhammad Ali, "Yes, I want to go over the Grand Canyon in a Jet Propelled Missle."

Klompton saw it too... That's when you were harping on the Inoki exhibition. Ironically, although the rules were convoluted that match was more legit than most boxer-wrestler matches. I think PBF hit the 425 pound Big Show with brass knuckles when the ref wasn't looking to win his match. You did the same thing when you maligned Muhammad Ali for pitching roach spray but ignored the fact Dempsey pitched "magic elixir". I would argue that the former serves a useful purpose while the latter serves no purpose at all and is potentially dangerous, especially in Dempsey's time as most of that crap was mostly alcohol. Oh, Dempsey peddled cat food too...

Actually the stuff Dempsey was selling was worse. It contained arsenic.

klompton wrote:

ThatOne wrote:

Il Duce wrote:Now Now Mr. That One,


You have turned yourself into a Major Liar........

I never said or implied that Muhammad Ali was the first boxer to associate himself with Wrestling.

I'm Telling On You..........

But, he did rip off the public {his adoring Sheep Following Fans} by the largest amount.

News Reporter, "Muhammad, what do you have say to your fans about the Tokyo Disaster."

Muhammad Ali, "Thank You. Thank You Very Much. Again 6,100,000 Thank You's."

News Reporter, 'Will you be doing any other Big Events."

Muhammad Ali, "Yes, I want to go over the Grand Canyon in a Jet Propelled Missle."

Klompton saw it too... That's when you were harping on the Inoki exhibition. Ironically, although the rules were convoluted that match was more legit than most boxer-wrestler matches. I think PBF hit the 425 pound Big Show with brass knuckles when the ref wasn't looking to win his match. You did the same thing when you maligned Muhammad Ali for pitching roach spray but ignored the fact Dempsey pitched "magic elixir". I would argue that the former serves a useful purpose while the latter serves no purpose at all and is potentially dangerous, especially in Dempsey's time as most of that crap was mostly alcohol. Oh, Dempsey peddled cat food too...

Actually the stuff Dempsey was selling was worse. It contained arsenic.

lmao

Im still waiting for a detailed explanation by Il Douche of how Willard ducked Dempsey for two plus years and how Ali ripped off the public with his bout with Inoki. Im waiting a lot of answers from Douche frankly and Ive never gotten a single one. He wiggles and twists whenever he is nailed down on a solid point and then changes the subject or redirects. How many times has he issued a "quote" by someone and then cannot produce a source for it?

Il Duce wrote:Yes,

I Agree,,,,,,,,Jack Dempsey sold some 'shaky' products........

I believe Muhammad Ali saw that in Jack, and said........ 'I should sell Crap too'.

Of course, putting a 'D-Con Fogger' in your children's bedroom is not advised by the Product Manufacturer.

Let's see Muhammad Ali and Roach Spray,,,,,,,,,,just who and what group was he trying to market to.

Again,,,,,,,,,taking advantage of the 'Low-Income/Low Information' Buying Public.........

How about doing a Public Service announcement for GETTING A GOOD EDUCATION.........

Yeah thats right. Ali sold poison to kill disease spreading insects. Dempsey sold poison to kill people. But its Ali who was selling to an ignorant, uneducated public... Whatevah!

Actually Ali did do public service announcements for staying in school and also for taking care of your teeth. I guess you forgot about those... or more likely werent born yet...

Il Duce wrote:Yes,

I Agree,,,,,,,,Jack Dempsey sold some 'shaky' products........

I believe Muhammad Ali saw that in Jack, and said........ 'I should sell Crap too'.

Of course, putting a 'D-Con Fogger' in your children's bedroom is not advised by the Product Manufacturer.

Let's see Muhammad Ali and Roach Spray,,,,,,,,,,just who and what group was he trying to market to.

Again,,,,,,,,,taking advantage of the 'Low-Income/Low Information' Buying Public.........

How about doing a Public Service announcement for GETTING A GOOD EDUCATION.........

1) Did Ali advise people to incorrectly use the product he was endorsing? After all, Tide will get your clothes clean. It will also kill you if you ingest enough of it.

2) The GOAT also did public service announcements to encourage reading and discourage eating foods that cause tooth decay:

Il Duce wrote:Yes,

I Agree,,,,,,,,Jack Dempsey sold some 'shaky' products........

I believe Muhammad Ali saw that in Jack, and said........ 'I should sell Crap too'.

Of course, putting a 'D-Con Fogger' in your children's bedroom is not advised by the Product Manufacturer.

Let's see Muhammad Ali and Roach Spray,,,,,,,,,,just who and what group was he trying to market to.

Again,,,,,,,,,taking advantage of the 'Low-Income/Low Information' Buying Public.........

How about doing a Public Service announcement for GETTING A GOOD EDUCATION.........

Il Duce wrote:I do believe the 'Mr. Harmless Klompton' was part of the Muhammad Ali Defense Team in 1971.

He got Coffee for Chauncey Eldridge, and always made sure Muhammad had his Drake's Coffee Cake.

Not arguing that Cassius Clay wasn't a very talented individual, a Fine Athlete, a Great Amateur Boxer,
a United States Boxing Team Gold Medal Winner at the 1960 Olympics.

As well as a great Professional Boxer, and a tremendous Showman and Entertainer......

But this was not done without some unbelievable help from other individuals and groups.

" If I have seen farther it is by standing on the shoulders of giants."

You think Jack Dempsey didnt have help? You think Gene Tunney didnt have help? Very very very VERY few champions in any sport, particularly boxing, get to the top spot without a great support system. If you believe the myth that Jack Dempsey rose out of the West and fought himself all the way to a championship then you are both naive and ill informed. If you think Gene Tunney waded through a sea of contenders to get to Dempsey you are naive and ill informed. I could go on and on and say the same thing about nearly every heavyweight champion but we both know that Dempsey was white and stood firmly for the white establishment while Ali was black and railed against it and you cannot reconcile that.

This thread is a cautionary tale. It reminds me of Jesus' admonition "to not look at the speck in your neighbor's eye when there is a log in your own."

klompton wrote:You think Jack Dempsey didnt have help? You think Gene Tunney didnt have help? Very very very VERY few champions in any sport, particularly boxing, get to the top spot without a great support system. If you believe the myth that Jack Dempsey rose out of the West and fought himself all the way to a championship then you are both naive and ill informed. If you think Gene Tunney waded through a sea of contenders to get to Dempsey you are naive and ill informed. I could go on and on and say the same thing about nearly every heavyweight champion but we both know that Dempsey was white and stood firmly for the white establishment while Ali was black and railed against it and you cannot reconcile that.

Yeah..how about Frazier and Cloverlay.....????????? Il Douche???

evrenb wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:

evrenb wrote:While I fully agree Williams was past his best I do think he still had ability...just take a look at his performance against Todd Herring which was one fight prior to the Ali match...he looked pretty awesome in spurts. If you can find a copy of the live footage....this fight was on the undercard of terrell vs doug jones if i remember correct....

I've never heard of Todd Herring, so I'll have to take your word for it. He was a corpse against Ali, who was obviously on point. He just has too many great wins and performances for sooooooooo many to call his greatest night beating on a human heavy bag.

Hi

Check it out. I'm sure that you can find find on Youtube....I think Williams looked good in this. . . and it's a rare chance to see Williams from live footage....

evrenb

Was Herring a good fighter?

I've never heard of Todd Herring, so I'll have to take your word for it. He was a corpse against Ali, who was obviously on point. He just has too many great wins and performances for sooooooooo many to call his greatest night beating on a human heavy bag.[/quote]

Hi

Check it out. I'm sure that you can find find on Youtube....I think Williams looked good in this. . . and it's a rare chance to see Williams from live footage....

evrenb[/quote]

Was Herring a good fighter?[/quote]

Saad

No he wasn't elite but had a winning record. If you view the film you can gauge what Williams had left...The Big Cat was a beast...

evrenb

Ali is getting brow beaten by Douche-bags for the Williams fight while Dempsey is being lauded. The supposedly shot and corpselike Williams went on to fight for 6 more years with a winning record after facing Ali. He lived 33 years after the fight.

Dempsey defended against a literally dying Billy Miske and admitted doing so for charitable reasons (despite giving Miske, who was suffering from kidney disease, a brutal body beating). Miske fought on for three more years with a winning record but died at the end of that three year stretch. In the year previous to facing Dempsey Miske had fought once against a nobody and had an abysmal 1-2-2 record in his last 5 fights. Personally Id take Williams over Miske any day of the week.