BoxRec

Dead Mouse wrote:

jamesmcdonnell wrote:
Yep, that was the fight It brought to mind for me to - totally illegal tactics, dangerous too as it causes cuts, Cortez was so in awe of Mayweather, he went to his dressing room before the fight to tell him just how awestruck and honoured he was to be refereeing the fight - I think that tells us what we need to know - Cortez was such a fanboy, he figured it was best to let Mayweather do what he wanted.

I'm sure that incident wasn't Cortez, it was Jay Nady prior to the Baldomir fight.

Ezzard wrote:

jamesmcdonnell wrote:
Yep, that was the fight It brought to mind for me to - totally illegal tactics, dangerous too as it causes cuts, Cortez was so in awe of Mayweather, he went to his dressing room before the fight to tell him just how awestruck and honoured he was to be refereeing the fight - I think that tells us what we need to know - Cortez was such a fanboy, he figured it was best to let Mayweather do what he wanted.

He also allowed Mayweather to continually turn his back, and then penalised Hatton for punching him on the back of the head as he did so, last time i checked, if you turn your back on your opponent, it's a foul. I'm not saying Hatton would have won the fight that night with a fair ref, but his chances were virtually zero when Cortez effectively allowed Mayweather to take away his one potent weapon, namely infighting, with an illegal move.

In the end, Hatton got so frustrated at not being allowed to fight - as even when he did manage to get inside, Cortez broke them instantaneously, that he just tried to rush Mayweather and was knocked out.

Nothing happened as a result, and was never likely to, Mayweather was calling the shots promotionally, Cortez knew that, and the boxing commisions, as usual, had no interest in fair play.

The really good fights make up for it, but in terms of fair play, boxing really is a joke compared to pretty much any sport I can think of. The house fighter generally gets treated with kid gloves, by the referee, and more often than not the judges too, so the fighter who is the favourite (generally thought not always the 'house' fighter) has even more advantage than their opponent, as everything is on their side.

With a fair application of the rules, both the Povetkin and Hatton fights would have been far more competitive and entertaining.

Thanks James. Good post.

Is there a rule change that might end this era of pop-and-lock merchants?

Is clinching against the rules? Or is it excessive clinching?

Dead Mouse wrote:because the names you’re throwing up lacked consistency, which is one of Wlad’s gifts.

loaded_gloves wrote:Boring to watch? Tick.

Cheats to win? Tick.

Holds rather than punches? Tick.

Lacks fire? Tick.

Lacks stomach for war? Tick?

Cannot win a fair fight due to glass chin? Tick.

Often abetted by openly corrupt house referee? Tick.

I think Wladimir tops even Henry Akinwande and John Ruiz in terms of being the worst titlist ever because he has been allowed to offend both his opponents and the viewers sensibilities for such a long period of time, while fully supported by the referees and commentators' Ministry of Propaganda while interest in boxing rapidly dwindles.

Here is the question:

A totally fair fight. A proper boxing match. Punches given and taken. Hard ass old fashioned referee not on any payroll refuses to allow Wladimir to hold, spoil, buy time, hit and hold. He is forced to stand and fight, as he used to back in 03, 04.

How long does he last? You know, not wrestling and spoiling. That old fashioned thing we all once called Boxing.

loaded_gloves wrote:Boring to watch? Tick.

Cheats to win? Tick.

Holds rather than punches? Tick.

Lacks fire? Tick.

Lacks stomach for war? Tick?

Cannot win a fair fight due to glass chin? Tick.

Often abetted by openly corrupt house referee? Tick.

I think Wladimir tops even Henry Akinwande and John Ruiz in terms of being the worst titlist ever because he has been allowed to offend both his opponents and the viewers sensibilities for such a long period of time, while fully supported by the referees and commentators' Ministry of Propaganda while interest in boxing rapidly dwindles.

Here is the question:

A totally fair fight. A proper boxing match. Punches given and taken. Hard ass old fashioned referee not on any payroll refuses to allow Wladimir to hold, spoil, buy time, hit and hold. He is forced to stand and fight, as he used to back in 03, 04.

How long does he last? You know, not wrestling and spoiling. That old fashioned thing we all once called Boxing.

keithmoonhangover wrote:

loaded_gloves wrote:Boring to watch? Tick.

Cheats to win? Tick.

Holds rather than punches? Tick.

Lacks fire? Tick.

Lacks stomach for war? Tick?

Cannot win a fair fight due to glass chin? Tick.

Often abetted by openly corrupt house referee? Tick.

I think Wladimir tops even Henry Akinwande and John Ruiz in terms of being the worst titlist ever because he has been allowed to offend both his opponents and the viewers sensibilities for such a long period of time, while fully supported by the referees and commentators' Ministry of Propaganda while interest in boxing rapidly dwindles.

Here is the question:

A totally fair fight. A proper boxing match. Punches given and taken. Hard ass old fashioned referee not on any payroll refuses to allow Wladimir to hold, spoil, buy time, hit and hold. He is forced to stand and fight, as he used to back in 03, 04.

How long does he last? You know, not wrestling and spoiling. That old fashioned thing we all once called Boxing.

I was always told that the art of boxing is hitting without being hit. Wlad has learned to do that really well.

Ezzard wrote:
No, I picked it on purpose. Devon was applauded for clinching every time Maidana got close. It was, according to some, a masterclass. Then I watched Kirkland-Molina and heard the commentary team complain about Molina’s continual clinching. Now I’m hearing all about Wlad’s clinching…

It’s obvious that Alexander looked a little more artful when he did it…I presumed we all watch enough boxing to see that.

Does looking good doing it make it okay?

I don’t know the answer…I think it should make no difference whatsoever…but my suspicion is that it does matter…I’m interested in what others think.

palooka wrote: Though to be fair you get more points if you hit and avoid a punch and not grip them so they can't move

Dead Mouse wrote:

Final round wrote:The Mercer who roughed up Lewis would have given Wladamir something to think about. Like falling on the canvas.

The fact you’ve had to qualify the statement gets to the crux of the matter. It’s always “The version who showed up against…” because the names you’re throwing up lacked consistency, which is one of Wlad’s gifts. All you scientists are throwing an invariable into the mix then claiming you’d know for sure the outcome despite the presence of this invariable. I’d hold off on those Nobel Prize speeches for the time being.

Aden, I was obsessed with the idea that Toney could have done it circa-2004 and my dream was to see him and Audley Harrison fight for a world title, but the reality is that I couldn’t have said for certainty that a fat middleweight would have been able to get past the jab and do a job on Wlad, even when the fat man in question is JT.

Riddick Blowe wrote:

Dead Mouse wrote:because the names you’re throwing up lacked consistency, which is one of Wlad’s gifts.

Easy to be 'consistent' against bums.

Final round wrote:somebody said he'd beat Mercer (any version) So do we judge him on his best form or when he got whupped by whippersnapper Klitchsko.

loaded_gloves wrote:But Keith, Damiani was working at a pace that Wlad cannot handle to keep Mercer at bay - and he lost in the end anyway. And Holmes is a boxing genius, the radar he could rely on to read & evade Mercer's rushes simply isn't present in Wlad's skull - as we saw Saturday with what he resorted to vs Povetkin.

keithmoonhangover wrote:

Final round wrote:somebody said he'd beat Mercer (any version) So do we judge him on his best form or when he got whupped by whippersnapper Klitchsko.

Mercer is overrated beyond belief on here. Right from the start of his career, he had issues. He had issues with Jerry Jones and barely managed to scrape past Ossie Ocassio. He was given a boxing lesson by Damiani and an ancient Holmes. Then you've got the Ferguson debacle. Yes, he almost beat Lennox Lewis and nearly killed Tommy Morrison.

Watch Mercer fight. Watch what happens when someone snaps a hard jab in his face.... the answer.... nothing. Watch Damiani do it, watch Klitschko do it.

Watch the Wlad that beat Mercer (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z5t4HoND6fk) and explain to me what Mercer would have done differently back in the day. What physically would he have done differently? Against a fighter with such speed and agility. Mercer from Holmes or Damiani loses to Wlad. Watch the Lewis fight (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7FUDnAXzkcQ) Mercer is more active than seven years later when he fought Wlad, but Lewis doesn't snap a hard jab into Mercer's chops.

Styles make fights.

keithmoonhangover wrote:

loaded_gloves wrote:But Keith, Damiani was working at a pace that Wlad cannot handle to keep Mercer at bay - and he lost in the end anyway. And Holmes is a boxing genius, the radar he could rely on to read & evade Mercer's rushes simply isn't present in Wlad's skull - as we saw Saturday with what he resorted to vs Povetkin.

The Wlad that fought on Saturday is 37 years old, he's in the twilight of his career. He doesn't throw anywhere near as many punches as he used to and has adapted his style accordingly.

Which Mercer beat the Wlad that beat Mercer a few years back? Certainly not the one that fought Damiani or Holmes.

palooka wrote:

keithmoonhangover wrote:

loaded_gloves wrote:But Keith, Damiani was working at a pace that Wlad cannot handle to keep Mercer at bay - and he lost in the end anyway. And Holmes is a boxing genius, the radar he could rely on to read & evade Mercer's rushes simply isn't present in Wlad's skull - as we saw Saturday with what he resorted to vs Povetkin.

The Wlad that fought on Saturday is 37 years old, he's in the twilight of his career. He doesn't throw anywhere near as many punches as he used to and has adapted his style accordingly.

Which Mercer beat the Wlad that beat Mercer a few years back? Certainly not the one that fought Damiani or Holmes.

The one that gave Lewis a proper go and the one that beat Cooper and Morrison would be in with a shout.

orbtastic wrote:You think Wlad would accept a fight in such a tiny ring? I can't see him lying back on the ropes either.

palooka wrote:Mercer was an Olympic gold medalist and people were genuinely afraid of boxing him as an amateur

keithmoonhangover wrote:

Final round wrote:somebody said he'd beat Mercer (any version) So do we judge him on his best form or when he got whupped by whippersnapper Klitchsko.

Mercer is overrated beyond belief on here. Right from the start of his career, he had issues. He had issues with Jerry Jones and barely managed to scrape past Ossie Ocassio. He was given a boxing lesson by Damiani and an ancient Holmes. Then you've got the Ferguson debacle. Yes, he almost beat Lennox Lewis and nearly killed Tommy Morrison.

Watch Mercer fight. Watch what happens when someone snaps a hard jab in his face.... the answer.... nothing. Watch Damiani do it, watch Klitschko do it.

Watch the Wlad that beat Mercer (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z5t4HoND6fk) and explain to me what Mercer would have done differently back in the day. What physically would he have done differently? Against a fighter with such speed and agility. Mercer from Holmes or Damiani loses to Wlad. Watch the Lewis fight (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7FUDnAXzkcQ) Mercer is more active than seven years later when he fought Wlad, but Lewis doesn't snap a hard jab into Mercer's chops.

Styles make fights.

Riddick Blowe wrote:People love to do this when someone suggests a 90's guy can beat Wlad.

keithmoonhangover wrote:

orbtastic wrote:You think Wlad would accept a fight in such a tiny ring? I can't see him lying back on the ropes either.

It would need to be a phone box to beat Wlad. When faced with a hard snapping jab, Mercer just couldn't function.