BoxRec

There is a lot of comedy in this thread, but trying to defend Herbie Hide as durable takes the cake

Riddick Blowe wrote:There is a lot of comedy in this thread, but trying to defend Herbie Hide as durable takes the cake

Astonishing isn't it. Even stevedoc or polecateddy would think twice about making such an indefensible claim. What's next? Corrie Sanders had a Frank Bruno physique? Peter McNeeley's power was on par with Shavers?

The problem with many posters is that someone is either the very best or just rubbish. Hide lost inside the distance 4 times in 53 bouts - weren't 2 of them cut eye stoppages? The 2 men he got knocked out by were big hitters and big strong men. Hide rematched Chingangu and knocked him out inside a round. He beat some decent men and he was fast and powerful - boxing all over the world. He gave Riddick Bowe a good go and showed some real bottle. If Hide had not had any punch resistance he'd not ever have been any sort of champion. The friend of mine he beat was used as a sparring partner for Lennox Lewis and was destroyed by Hide so lets get Hides 'fragility' in some perspective.

You're obviously too close to your friend to judge Hide objectively.

For the record, Joe Chingangu decked Hide 4 or 5 times in 2 rounds and won by KO. Hide had just turned 30. He boxed for another decade. What Chingangu did is simply shrug off Hide's attack and bang him on the chin.

Let's get Hide in perspective. He went something like 25-0 without beating a single ranked contender or earning a shot at anything. It's worth noting that the only time he was hit square by his weak opposition, Craig Petersen decked him. Naturally the Brit-friendly, derided and desperate WBO saw fit to match him with Michael Bentt for their lowly regarded title. Hide eventually got rid of the neurologically damaged Bentt. He boxed a lazy Bowe who lumbered after him in an indifferent and oafish manner. As soon as Hide got hit he immediately fell apart and began, as the HBO commentators pointed out, hyperventilating. Then he resumed his undemanding, unranked bum routine. Naturally that earned him a second shot at the prestigious WBO title. I don’t need to describe the condition Tony Tucker was in by 1997. Hide’s opposition now, as some sort of ‘champion’, quite unfeasibly sank to a new low in defending his trinket against two clubfighters. Clubfighters! All while trash talking Lennox Lewis and Evander Holyfield, and claiming they couldn’t fight for the undisputed championship without his involvement. Danny Williams then KOd him with big gloves and Vitali flattened him with a jab. A ‘champion’, KOd by a jab!

Even if you choose to cut off his career there for whatever mysterious reasons (the need to avoid the genuinely laughable loss to Chingangu), Hide has no significant victory. He was a protected for a reason, and it wasn't because of his Mercer-like jawbone. He never beat anybody of any note and cried when hit back. He was a bogus champ happy to insult great fighters while biffing around tomato cans in Norwich sports centre. He has a long history of violent and anti-social behaviour outside the ring. He’s in prison as I write.

What's there to be impressed by?

Tuan_Jim wrote:You're obviously too close to your friend to judge Hide objectively.

For the record, Joe Chingangu decked Hide 4 or 5 times in 2 rounds and won by KO. Hide had just turned 30. He boxed for another decade. What Chingangu did is simply shrug off Hide's attack and bang him on the chin.

Let's get Hide in perspective. He went something like 25-0 without beating a single ranked contender or earning a shot at anything. It's worth noting that the only time he was hit square by his weak opposition, Craig Petersen decked him. Naturally the Brit-friendly, derided and desperate WBO saw fit to match him with Michael Bentt for their lowly regarded title. Hide eventually got rid of the neurologically damaged Bentt. He boxed a lazy Bowe who lumbered after him in an indifferent and oafish manner. As soon as Hide got hit he immediately fell apart and began, as the HBO commentators pointed out, hyperventilating. Then he resumed his undemanding, unranked bum routine. Naturally that earned him a second shot at the prestigious WBO title. I don’t need to describe the condition Tony Tucker was in by 1997. Hide’s opposition now, as some sort of ‘champion’, quite unfeasibly sank to a new low in defending his trinket against two clubfighters. Clubfighters! All while trash talking Lennox Lewis and Evander Holyfield, and claiming they couldn’t fight for the undisputed championship without his involvement. Danny Williams then KOd him with big gloves and Vitali flattened him with a jab. A ‘champion’, KOd by a jab!

Even if you choose to cut off his career there for whatever mysterious reasons (the need to avoid the genuinely laughable loss to Chingangu), Hide has no significant victory. He was a protected for a reason, and it wasn't because of his Mercer-like jawbone. He never beat anybody of any note and cried when hit back. He was a bogus champ happy to insult great fighters while biffing around tomato cans in Norwich sports centre. He has a long history of violent and anti-social behaviour outside the ring. He’s in prison as I write.

What's there to be impressed by?

Hi Tuan (I am not stalking you lol)

On a trip to Las Vegas about ten years I attended a boxing show at Ballys. Sam Peter was main event. I managed to meet a lot of famous current fighters as well as ex champs. . Eddie Mustafa Muhammad was great, Jeremy Williams, Al Ice Cole, Kevin Kelly, Ray Austin..all of them fantastic and cordial. The only one that was rude, ignorant and obnoxious was Hide. He was slunk into a chair arrogantly waiting for people to recognise him only then for him to say 'leave me alone'. What a twat. I met Ali a few years before and he spent his time with me...but Hide 'The Great' was beyond this..he was a legend..in his own mind !!!!!!!!!!!!

Tuan_Jim wrote:

drunkenpiper36 wrote:

Tuan_Jim wrote: Yeah, because he never boxed a ranked contender other than Bowe and VK.

Hide nearly killed and hospitalized Michael Bent who was the WBO champion and had just sparked Tommy Morrison in one round.

As usual you are totally ignorant to the facts. Bentt was suffering black outs and collapsing before the fight, was KOd with big gloves by the awful King Ipitan in sparring, and was advised not to go through with it. He was damaged goods. That guy is Herbie Hide's 'big win'.

Henry claiming a 30 year old Herbie Hide was some washed up old man, Piper babbling about fights he has never seen and things he knows nothing about. This thread has become a bore.

You're not telling me anything I don't already know.. Yeah that's right, you're not the only one who can pull up youtube links, watch fights, and read articles and reports about matches. You stated that Hide "never beat a ranked contender." You're exact words. Bentt was ranked #5 by the ring magazine and had just sparked a ranked opponent in one round. You might have said " never beat an ABLE BODIED CONTENDER", but I suspect you went back and fumbled around for a loophole to back track yourself after I called out your error. Can the arrogance.

evrenb wrote:

Tuan_Jim wrote:You're obviously too close to your friend to judge Hide objectively.

For the record, Joe Chingangu decked Hide 4 or 5 times in 2 rounds and won by KO. Hide had just turned 30. He boxed for another decade. What Chingangu did is simply shrug off Hide's attack and bang him on the chin.

Let's get Hide in perspective. He went something like 25-0 without beating a single ranked contender or earning a shot at anything. It's worth noting that the only time he was hit square by his weak opposition, Craig Petersen decked him. Naturally the Brit-friendly, derided and desperate WBO saw fit to match him with Michael Bentt for their lowly regarded title. Hide eventually got rid of the neurologically damaged Bentt. He boxed a lazy Bowe who lumbered after him in an indifferent and oafish manner. As soon as Hide got hit he immediately fell apart and began, as the HBO commentators pointed out, hyperventilating. Then he resumed his undemanding, unranked bum routine. Naturally that earned him a second shot at the prestigious WBO title. I don’t need to describe the condition Tony Tucker was in by 1997. Hide’s opposition now, as some sort of ‘champion’, quite unfeasibly sank to a new low in defending his trinket against two clubfighters. Clubfighters! All while trash talking Lennox Lewis and Evander Holyfield, and claiming they couldn’t fight for the undisputed championship without his involvement. Danny Williams then KOd him with big gloves and Vitali flattened him with a jab. A ‘champion’, KOd by a jab!

Even if you choose to cut off his career there for whatever mysterious reasons (the need to avoid the genuinely laughable loss to Chingangu), Hide has no significant victory. He was a protected for a reason, and it wasn't because of his Mercer-like jawbone. He never beat anybody of any note and cried when hit back. He was a bogus champ happy to insult great fighters while biffing around tomato cans in Norwich sports centre. He has a long history of violent and anti-social behaviour outside the ring. He’s in prison as I write.

What's there to be impressed by?

Hi Tuan (I am not stalking you lol)

On a trip to Las Vegas about ten years I attended a boxing show at Ballys. Sam Peter was main event. I managed to meet a lot of famous current fighters as well as ex champs. . Eddie Mustafa Muhammad was great, Jeremy Williams, Al Ice Cole, Kevin Kelly, Ray Austin..all of them fantastic and cordial. The only one that was rude, ignorant and obnoxious was Hide. He was slunk into a chair arrogantly waiting for people to recognise him only then for him to say 'leave me alone'. What a twat. I met Ali a few years before and he spent his time with me...but Hide 'The Great' was beyond this..he was a legend..in his own mind !!!!!!!!!!!!

I know a man who is a success in business and he meets up with boxers etc - he also met Hide a few times and said he was rude and arrogant - he was still a decent fighter even if he is an arsehole.

Tuan_Jim wrote:Vitali flattened him with a jab. A ‘champion’, KOd by a jab!

I'm not sure Vitali's 'shot' that downed Hide even connected. From memory the slow motion replay left commentators bemused as to what Herbie was actually hit with, besides the gentle breeze accompanying Vitali's punch.

The arguments to support the Klitschko's opponents are hilarious. It always turns people like Piper into raging hypocrites.

drunkenpiper36 wrote: You're not telling me anything I don't already know.. Yeah that's right, you're not the only one who can pull up youtube links, watch fights, and read articles and reports about matches. You stated that Hide "never beat a ranked contender." You're exact words. Bentt was ranked #5 by the ring magazine and had just sparked a ranked opponent in one round. You might have said " never beat an ABLE BODIED CONTENDER", but I suspect you went back and fumbled around for a loophole to back track yourself after I called out your error. Can the arrogance.

The information I shared about Bentt was from contemporaneous print media I held in my own hands at the time. It's revealing that you automatically assume people with information must have learned it 10 seconds ago by hurriedly consulting some unreliable website written by a semi-literate. That certainly makes sense of the huge holes in your knowledge that frequently appear and are then quickly filled.

You are right about Bentt’s ranking however. Although no major body ever ranked him, The Ring magazine did after his Morrison win. So allow me to hold up my hands and say that Herbie Hide, in a fifty fight career in which he claimed to be a two-time heavyweight champion, did managed to defeat one magazine-ranked contender. A contender with a 10-1 record, and a neurological condition. Let’s at least give Herbie Hide that.

evrenb wrote:
Hi Tuan (I am not stalking you lol)

On a trip to Las Vegas about ten years I attended a boxing show at Ballys. Sam Peter was main event. I managed to meet a lot of famous current fighters as well as ex champs. . Eddie Mustafa Muhammad was great, Jeremy Williams, Al Ice Cole, Kevin Kelly, Ray Austin..all of them fantastic and cordial. The only one that was rude, ignorant and obnoxious was Hide. He was slunk into a chair arrogantly waiting for people to recognise him only then for him to say 'leave me alone'. What a twat. I met Ali a few years before and he spent his time with me...but Hide 'The Great' was beyond this..he was a legend..in his own mind !!!!!!!!!!!!

I've read that story from you before and very much enjoyed it. It sounds exactly like him. I used to know Herbie Hide's trainer, lived on the same street as him. Heard some very interesting tales!

This is all getting a bit silly even for me.

Did Bentt have the nuerological condition when he starched Morrison (38-1 at the time) and why was he allowed to box Hide with a condition?

It's revealing that you automatically assume people with information must have learned it 10 seconds ago by hurriedly consulting some unreliable website written by a semi-literate.

I'd say that's the pot calling the kettle black, given that you breath the very same accusation all over this forum a hundred times daily.

That certainly makes sense of the huge holes in your knowledge that frequently appear and are then quickly filled.

Just because I don't care to write an entire novel including every detail doesn't mean I'm unaware of them.

You are right about Bentt’s ranking however. Although no major body ever ranked him, The Ring magazine did after his Morrison win. So allow me to hold up my hands and say that Herbie Hide, in a fifty fight career in which he claimed to be a two-time heavyweight champion, did managed to defeat one magazine-ranked contender. A contender with a 10-1 record, and a neurological condition. Let’s at least give Herbie Hide that.

[/quote]

Thank you.

palooka wrote: If Hide had not had any punch resistance he'd not ever have been any sort of champion. .

He wasn't a champion . . .the WBO belt at the time was about on par with Lucas Brown's current WBF belt.

Here's an interview with Bentt. He came into the Hide fight damaged goods: http://www.doghouseboxing.com/Newman/Newman112305.htm

palooka wrote:This is all getting a bit silly even for me.

Did Bentt have the nuerological condition when he starched Morrison (38-1 at the time) and why was he allowed to box Hide with a condition?

It wouldn't be the first time. Bonecrusher Smith failed a brainscan and was allowed to box Axel Schulz anyway. An advantage is an advantage!

Tuan_Jim wrote:

evrenb wrote:
Hi Tuan (I am not stalking you lol)

On a trip to Las Vegas about ten years I attended a boxing show at Ballys. Sam Peter was main event. I managed to meet a lot of famous current fighters as well as ex champs. . Eddie Mustafa Muhammad was great, Jeremy Williams, Al Ice Cole, Kevin Kelly, Ray Austin..all of them fantastic and cordial. The only one that was rude, ignorant and obnoxious was Hide. He was slunk into a chair arrogantly waiting for people to recognise him only then for him to say 'leave me alone'. What a twat. I met Ali a few years before and he spent his time with me...but Hide 'The Great' was beyond this..he was a legend..in his own mind !!!!!!!!!!!!

I've read that story from you before and very much enjoyed it. It sounds exactly like him. I used to know Herbie Hide's trainer, lived on the same street as him. Heard some very interesting tales!

Repeating myself!!! Im getting punch drunk !!!

palooka wrote:The problem with many posters is that someone is either the very best or just rubbish. Hide lost inside the distance 4 times in 53 bouts - weren't 2 of them cut eye stoppages? The 2 men he got knocked out by were big hitters and big strong men. Hide rematched Chingangu and knocked him out inside a round. He beat some decent men and he was fast and powerful - boxing all over the world. He gave Riddick Bowe a good go and showed some real bottle. If Hide had not had any punch resistance he'd not ever have been any sort of champion. The friend of mine he beat was used as a sparring partner for Lennox Lewis and was destroyed by Hide so lets get Hides 'fragility' in some perspective.

This is an apt statement, but I think the problem here is mainly miscommunication. I don't think people are saying Hide was rubbish on the whole as a fighter, I think they are saying his durability wasn't particularly remarkable.

I think Hide was a good fighter who had some real talent, and a dangerous cruiserweight. But I wouldn't call him very durable, as in to say that stopping him, especially at heavyweight, was a big accomplishment.

No chance of Dempsey or Marciano beating those guys! Way too big. They should be called Super Heavyweights!

I'm old enough to remember that if anyone on a forum like this advanced the notion that Lennox Lewis belonged amongst the ATGs he would've been laughed at and hounded from the forum. This wasn't all that long ago either. Funny how the passing of time changes peoples' view, or is it just the old timers dying off or mellowing out?