BoxRec

mickey1975 wrote:

coneye wrote:I think the key word here is AMETEUR , Its the way the ameteurs have been taught for so long now , where its drummed into them , light scoring punch move away , in , out , weave it all about , Don't take a chance, 1 punch,1 point and away,

When they move to the pay for punch its so different , and i tink a lot struggle with it ,, whereass , you have your rough tuff don't give a fack sort of guy who only wants to throw punches that hurt ,, ,,, Well they take to the pro's a lot better .

Maybe, but this is the last of that generation. The amateur fights now are basically 3 round pro fights. In fact the refs have been more lenient than most pro refs.

And thank God for that. I know some people are big fans of the amateur game but personally I couldn't stand it - with the stupid scoring system, headguards, no reward for harder punches etc, it was like watching a different sport. The new style is far more entertaining & will stand the boxers in much better stead for when they turn pro.

Einherjar wrote:

digzee wrote: Even if he loses to Porter it would be a great comeback fight as Bundu is highly ranked amongst most governing bodies, I do hope Bundu gets a title shot but the division is so strong and he doesn't offer much to the other champions, he needs to get into a final eliminator for the opportunity I think.

He could fight Bradley Skeete for the WBA Inter Continental, Charles Manyuchi for the WBC International or Bethuel Ushona for WBO Africa. Plus he could defend his Commonwealth title in those fights. I think the only way he gets a title shot is if Brook wins.[/quote)

Frankie lost his commonwealth title as well last night mate, it was on the line with the EBU title.

I thought Bundu won by 3 or 4 rounds last night, but Frankie showed great bravery to get back in the fight, after the body shot, but was never really moving like normal afterwards, plus it seemed to take a lot from him strength wise.

I thought Bundu won by 3 or 4 rounds last night, but Frankie showed great bravery to get back in the fight, after the body shot, but was never really moving like normal afterwards, plus it seemed to take a lot from him strength wise.

mickey1975 wrote:Having just read Jimmy Tibbs book, he (Jimmy) spends weeks and weeks getting amateur stars out of their amateur habits. So what did Gavin do? F uck them off and go back to his old amateur trainer who he'd had all the success with. They were never going to change, I think with hindsight they thought he'd out point anyone. Hopefully lessons are learned, and there are positives, massive heart and at least he's had a war now, the rest of the fights were pretty straightforward. And I hold my hands up as a massive Gavin fan who has fought his corner on here for years. Got to try and get to 10st though, he just couldn't deter him at all.

Good post. Gavin went down the same road as Price and Bellew.

One of the nut-huggers in his team claimed on here that Gavin was beating up guys above WBC title level when he was 15.

In boxing, surrounding yourself with yes-men doesn't work.

Well it seems im going against the grain here but i had it 115-112 Gavin,although it was a close fight i thought it was pretty easy to score apart from 10th and 11th where i edged Gavin but couldn't argue if Bundu got them,if he did i would have had Bundu winning 114-113 but really i didnt think Leonard was accurate enough or busy enough either to win most rounds

Cant argue with the loss though but some of the posts on here are laughable having Bundu winning a near shutout It was the same with Canelo/Lara and Algieri/Provodnikov,some people seem to think all you need to do is walk forward to win,i will admit though this fight wasnt as wide as the 2 i mentioned but nah Frankie done enough IMO,

I had Bundu up by a round.

Frankie showed so many things last night such as heart and guts - but he was also a bit naive on the ropes at times, the ref was almost looking to pounce in.

Credit to Bundu, tough and determined fighter. He came to his back yard, dropped him and left with a smile.

What Frankie needs is to come right back soon, not spend an eternity in the wilderness before coming back in 2015.

Good effort by Frankie in his 1st real big test, Bundu is a real hard nut & the outgunned Gavin showed real guts to get up from that devastating shot.

The way he came back and won the last round would have left him thinking he won the fight in his mind, but the reality was Bundu deserved it, and it was surely good to see a fair decision in the UK.
( which judge scored it for Gavin? )

super fight last night,,

i always new frankie was not world class but he can come again at euro level,,

one of the best fights of the year and fair play to both boxers

ScottDetonator wrote:Anyone else draw a slight comparison to David Price v Tony Thompson? A fighter with good solid amateur roots, cleaning up the domestic division, being over-hyped by management and fans - only to jump up to lower world level too soon.

Bundu clearly 'knew' too much for Frankie. I only had Bundu by 2 points though, so at least Gavin didn't get KO'd and actually got up and fought through it.

Gavin can come again and learn from this but winning a world title in the WW division looks a very, very big ask now. Maybe Bundu will go on to get a big fight, win it and look great, in which case, defeat here for Gavin might not look that bad.

No mate not seeing that one at all. Haye was not over-hyped, he was the absolute business at cruiser and could stop anyone on his day, he just showed naivity in falling for Thompson's rope-a-dope stuff where he played at being hurt to get the other man to gas himself out. Thompson was very clever and did that in a few of his fights, he also had one of the most granite chins in boxing. Last night was nothing like Haye v Thompson at all.

TheCobra wrote:

ScottDetonator wrote:Anyone else draw a slight comparison to David Price v Tony Thompson? A fighter with good solid amateur roots, cleaning up the domestic division, being over-hyped by management and fans - only to jump up to lower world level too soon.

Bundu clearly 'knew' too much for Frankie. I only had Bundu by 2 points though, so at least Gavin didn't get KO'd and actually got up and fought through it.

Gavin can come again and learn from this but winning a world title in the WW division looks a very, very big ask now. Maybe Bundu will go on to get a big fight, win it and look great, in which case, defeat here for Gavin might not look that bad.

No mate not seeing that one at all. Haye was not over-hyped, he was the absolute business at cruiser and could stop anyone on his day, he just showed naivity in falling for Thompson's rope-a-dope stuff where he played at being hurt to get the other man to gas himself out. Thompson was very clever and did that in a few of his fights, he also had one of the most granite chins in boxing. Last night was nothing like Haye v Thompson at all.

He said Tony Thompson lol

he's on about Price - Thompson, mate. not Haye - Cat

Pugilist-specialist wrote:
Good post. Gavin went down the same road as Price and Bellew.

One of the nut-huggers in his team claimed on here that Gavin was beating up guys above WBC title level when he was 15.

In boxing, surrounding yourself with yes-men doesn't work.

This is the main crux of it for me, everyone he's had along the way have really hyped him up and told him he's great. Gavin doesn't strike me as the sort who likes to take too much criticism. Look at when Farnell was his trainer, the amount of smoke Farnell blew up his arse must have made his head balloon. For a long time I've felt that Gavin needs a kick up the arse, not to be told he's great all the time.

There are issues with this lad, development-wise both mentally and physically, that have been glossed over by his team and by himself. It's that side of it that make me question if he's ever going to do much more than he's already achieved, natural ability or not.

columbo wrote:

TheCobra wrote:

ScottDetonator wrote:Anyone else draw a slight comparison to David Price v Tony Thompson? A fighter with good solid amateur roots, cleaning up the domestic division, being over-hyped by management and fans - only to jump up to lower world level too soon.

Bundu clearly 'knew' too much for Frankie. I only had Bundu by 2 points though, so at least Gavin didn't get KO'd and actually got up and fought through it.

Gavin can come again and learn from this but winning a world title in the WW division looks a very, very big ask now. Maybe Bundu will go on to get a big fight, win it and look great, in which case, defeat here for Gavin might not look that bad.

No mate not seeing that one at all. Haye was not over-hyped, he was the absolute business at cruiser and could stop anyone on his day, he just showed naivity in falling for Thompson's rope-a-dope stuff where he played at being hurt to get the other man to gas himself out. Thompson was very clever and did that in a few of his fights, he also had one of the most granite chins in boxing. Last night was nothing like Haye v Thompson at all.

He said Tony Thompson lol

Oops, hahaha, my apologies!

It was a very close fight in my opinion. Without the knockdown I'd have given Frankie a narrow points win. You can see why his promoter dug deep to win the purse bids and get home advantage.

I've previously criticised the match-making for Gavin. The gulf between his previous level of opposition, and Bundu, was too much, especially given Frankie's difficulties getting trapped on the ropes and in the corner. None of his previous opponents put him under that kind of pressure. His boxing skills are sublime but I think we were all surprised at how badly Frankie coped with the pressure of Bundu at times. There were several rounds which would have clearly gone Frankie's way if he hadn't been backed into the ropes and endured eye-catching barrages of punches from Bundu.

Nearly all of the opponents Frankie has fought so far, the only chance they had was to land a lucky punch - such is Frankie's advantage over them with his boxing skills. But, at the risk of stating the blindingly obvious, the idea is to progress your fighter towards world class and I don't think he has been matched well, in terms of developing him. I'm not being wise after the event, I've been posting about this for a long time.

Frankie is easily talented enough to make adjustments and come again and I really hope he can. It's a wake up call for him. At times he looked fantastic, and I thought he took the final three rounds.

My only criticisms lay with the match-making along the way, which has not developed him as effectively as was needed.

He ought to spar with people on his level and above, he's a really good fighter but I agree he's had the superstar treatment.

I have lost count of the number of times I have heard boxers say after a loss things like "I am going to do it right next time-get a sports therapist, nutritionist, strength conditioner etc on board"

These guys are elite athletes and many of them are still doing the same training/coaching routines they did in their old amateur days-blowing up between fights, starving/drying out to extremes before weigh ins, sparring when they feel like it, going for marathon runs etc etc and it isnt until the wheels come off that someone says perhaps we should try some of that modern sports science mumbo jumbo next time.

I would guess the problem is often because the boxer is the guy employing everyone else so no one wants to upset the apple cart.

I agree Broomhall, it's a shame. People said from turning pro that Frankie was pretty much a sure thing and the most naturally talented British boxer for years. He has really good skills and showed them as an amateur, being a pro isn't being a top amateur who can go 12 rounds. He lost a good fight to a very good boxer who has a great temperament, Frankie can come back better but has to spar and train like a challenger and not as the preferred house fighter/champion.

Broomhall wrote:I have lost count of the number of times I have heard boxers say after a loss things like "I am going to do it right next time-get a sports therapist, nutritionist, strength conditioner etc on board"

These guys are elite athletes and many of them are still doing the same training/coaching routines they did in their old amateur days-blowing up between fights, starving/drying out to extremes before weigh ins, sparring when they feel like it, going for marathon runs etc etc and it isnt until the wheels come off that someone says perhaps we should try some of that modern sports science mumbo jumbo next time.

I would guess the problem is often because the boxer is the guy employing everyone else so no one wants to upset the apple cart.

I doubt Kerry Kayes even charges him so will just offer advice when asked. I guess when he was briefly with Tibbs he was told what to do...

Broomhall wrote:I have lost count of the number of times I have heard boxers say after a loss things like "I am going to do it right next time-get a sports therapist, nutritionist, strength conditioner etc on board"

These guys are elite athletes and many of them are still doing the same training/coaching routines they did in their old amateur days-blowing up between fights, starving/drying out to extremes before weigh ins, sparring when they feel like it, going for marathon runs etc etc and it isnt until the wheels come off that someone says perhaps we should try some of that modern sports science mumbo jumbo next time.

I would guess the problem is often because the boxer is the guy employing everyone else so no one wants to upset the apple cart.

Good post. People make a lot of excuses for him it seems too. For some reason this guy always had a very overly-optimistic fanbase.

palooka wrote:He lost a good fight to a very good boxer .

got beat up floored and outworked by a light punching guy who is nearly 40....

los2 wrote:

palooka wrote:He lost a good fight to a very good boxer .

got beat up floored and outworked by a light punching guy who is nearly 40....

think that shows a little bit more knowledge needed. Bundu is a world class boxer at the moment

Old bones Ian wrote:

los2 wrote:

palooka wrote:He lost a good fight to a very good boxer .

got beat up floored and outworked by a light punching guy who is nearly 40....

think that shows a little bit more knowledge needed. Bundu is a world class boxer at the moment

which world class boxers has he beat????.....

los2 wrote:

Old bones Ian wrote:

los2 wrote:
got beat up floored and outworked by a light punching guy who is nearly 40....

think that shows a little bit more knowledge needed. Bundu is a world class boxer at the moment

which world class boxers has he beat????.....

You're sticking the boot in here as a Brook man.

How many has Brook beaten? A boxer can be world class by being obviously better than European level. I thought it was a good fight, I think Gavin is a very good fighter and I think Bundu was better, more versatile and more powerful. Bundu belongs in the world mix.