Joshua vs. Povetkin, a mismatch or not ?

[ValMar]

He says that only because fight is not made yet. When there will be a real fight. He will start making garbage excuses about Usyk being small and powerless and bla bla bla..

Precise Presenter boy. Another version of LDBC lunatics. Only from Eastern europe

What/who the fukc is LDBC ?

Youtube community. Biased black americans who only root for USA. Precise Presenter and his community are biased feminist boys from Eastern Europe or racist white Americans.

Those fans are trash

Thanks ! I despise all kinds of racists.

[dagilechia]

At this point i also think that Usyk got better chance of beating Joshua than Povetkin. BUT i think that Povetkin got better chance of knocking out Joshua than Usyk.

[Ilya Muromets]

So you appear to have finally accepted what so many have tried and failed to tell you that physical advantages are just one of a number of factors which can influence the outcome of a fight. I'm not going to argue with you about whether your size obsession was to the exclusion of all else or not. Posters will have formed their own opinion about that.

I just content myself with the fact that you have finally arrived at what the majority of us hold to be true and I rejoice, but if you revert to that shite about how size is the only thing that matters, I'm going to round up the lynch-mob.

You say Usyk beats Joshua whereas I say despite his skill advantage, he lacks the power to hurt AJ and anyone who cannot make AJ wary of their power is going to struggle to keep him off. I guess what I'm really saying is that Usyk is going to struggle with Joshua's size, strength, power, physicality ... In a word his size - ironic isn't it?

I pretty much agree. Of course Usyk is a special fighter. I knew that the first time i saw him, tho i'm still sad that he cut off his cossack hairdo. It gives you extra power - like me! If he were to fight Joshua now - or say if GGG was to fight Joshua now - well there could be the unfairness of grossly mixing weight classes. The smaller man could just run away all night and throw an occasional potshot - exactly like Haye did to Valuev. If the ref again doesnt insist on the smaller faster man engaging, well then...

Luis - Usyk is much smaller than Povetkin. He fights under 200. How successful he'll be if he bulks up i can't say. Maybe yes maybe no. It is very stupid to call Povetkin fat etc. I think that you are so used to looking at roided up athletes - like Joshua for instance - that a natural looking man and athlete looks "chubby" to you. Take a look at what athletes, and even bodybuilders, looked like before the steroid age.

[candyslim]

At this point i also think that Usyk got better chance of beating Joshua than Povetkin. BUT i think that Povetkin got better chance of knocking out Joshua than Usyk.

I agree with that even though I don't think either of those "better chances" are good chances.

x2x: Some people have great genes and can look like they have been sculpted out of marble without taking steroids. Others will always look soft and lazy no matter how hard they work out, a six-pack just isn't attainable.

Joshua is subject to random drug testing and has been for many years, almost as long as he's been boxing. Now I know you're going to tell me that there are ways of getting around this kind of testing, and I would have to confess you probably know far more about the subject than I do, but it just seems grossly unfair to me that you automatically assume he is guilty just because he looks like he could be.

Our legal system in the UK is based on the principle that a man (or woman) is innocent until proven guilty. Of course we are not in a court of law but it still seems like a principle worth adopting to me. Yes I'm an AJ fan but I've never jumped on the 'Povetkin is a drug cheat' bandwagon either.

Besides you can get sued for libel for making this kind of unsubstantiated allegation too. I'm sure you're perfectly safe but respect the principle, eh?

[dagilechia]

So you appear to have finally accepted what so many have tried and failed to tell you that physical advantages are just one of a number of factors which can influence the outcome of a fight. I'm not going to argue with you about whether your size obsession was to the exclusion of all else or not. Posters will have formed their own opinion about that.

I just content myself with the fact that you have finally arrived at what the majority of us hold to be true and I rejoice, but if you revert to that shite about how size is the only thing that matters, I'm going to round up the lynch-mob.

You say Usyk beats Joshua whereas I say despite his skill advantage, he lacks the power to hurt AJ and anyone who cannot make AJ wary of their power is going to struggle to keep him off. I guess what I'm really saying is that Usyk is going to struggle with Joshua's size, strength, power, physicality ... In a word his size - ironic isn't it?

I pretty much agree. Of course Usyk is a special fighter. I knew that the first time i saw him, tho i'm still sad that he cut off his cossack hairdo. It gives you extra power - like me! If he were to fight Joshua now - or say if GGG was to fight Joshua now - well there could be the unfairness of grossly mixing weight classes. The smaller man could just run away all night and throw an occasional potshot - exactly like Haye did to Valuev. If the ref again doesnt insist on the smaller faster man engaging, well then...

Luis - Usyk is much smaller than Povetkin. He fights under 200. How successful he'll be if he bulks up i can't say. Maybe yes maybe no. It is very stupid to call Povetkin fat etc. I think that you are so used to looking at roided up athletes - like Joshua for instance - that a natural looking man and athlete looks "chubby" to you. Take a look at what athletes, and even bodybuilders, looked like before the steroid age.

Yeah i also think that Usyk should keep his oseledets haircut

[punchoutsb]

You responded to me first and you're not in a position to tell me what I should or shouldn't be doing.

Strength and power are practically one and the same thing.

Strength = the ability to lift a 225 pound object, 3 feet above the ground in one second.

Power = the ability to move a 225 pound object, 3 feet backwards with a single punch.

If an athlete possesses the necessary strength required to perform the former feat, then they also possess the necessary power required to perform the latter feat.

Strength = the ability to move an object a specific distance within a particular amount of time

Punching power = the ability to move an object after landing a punch, a specific distance within a particular amount of time.

Both punching power and physical strength are based on body mass and speed an athlete possesses. Considering Povetkin at no point was ever as big, never mind bigger than Joshua and was never faster than what he always was. Any talk about drugs improving him in that manner is a myth. Otherwise, we would've seen evidence of him growing much bigger in functional mass and / or speed.

No.

Yes!

I suggest a trip to your local library mate.

[Ilya Muromets]

So you appear to have finally accepted what so many have tried and failed to tell you that physical advantages are just one of a number of factors which can influence the outcome of a fight. I'm not going to argue with you about whether your size obsession was to the exclusion of all else or not. Posters will have formed their own opinion about that.

I just content myself with the fact that you have finally arrived at what the majority of us hold to be true and I rejoice, but if you revert to that shite about how size is the only thing that matters, I'm going to round up the lynch-mob.

You say Usyk beats Joshua whereas I say despite his skill advantage, he lacks the power to hurt AJ and anyone who cannot make AJ wary of their power is going to struggle to keep him off. I guess what I'm really saying is that Usyk is going to struggle with Joshua's size, strength, power, physicality ... In a word his size - ironic isn't it?

I pretty much agree. Of course Usyk is a special fighter. I knew that the first time i saw him, tho i'm still sad that he cut off his cossack hairdo. It gives you extra power - like me! If he were to fight Joshua now - or say if GGG was to fight Joshua now - well there could be the unfairness of grossly mixing weight classes. The smaller man could just run away all night and throw an occasional potshot - exactly like Haye did to Valuev. If the ref again doesnt insist on the smaller faster man engaging, well then...

Luis - Usyk is much smaller than Povetkin. He fights under 200. How successful he'll be if he bulks up i can't say. Maybe yes maybe no. It is very stupid to call Povetkin fat etc. I think that you are so used to looking at roided up athletes - like Joshua for instance - that a natural looking man and athlete looks "chubby" to you. Take a look at what athletes, and even bodybuilders, looked like before the steroid age.

Yeah i also think that Usyk should keep his oseledets haircut

[candyslim]

So you appear to have finally accepted what so many have tried and failed to tell you that physical advantages are just one of a number of factors which can influence the outcome of a fight. I'm not going to argue with you about whether your size obsession was to the exclusion of all else or not. Posters will have formed their own opinion about that.

I just content myself with the fact that you have finally arrived at what the majority of us hold to be true and I rejoice, but if you revert to that shite about how size is the only thing that matters, I'm going to round up the lynch-mob.

You say Usyk beats Joshua whereas I say despite his skill advantage, he lacks the power to hurt AJ and anyone who cannot make AJ wary of their power is going to struggle to keep him off. I guess what I'm really saying is that Usyk is going to struggle with Joshua's size, strength, power, physicality ... In a word his size - ironic isn't it?

He says that only because fight is not made yet. When there will be a real fight. He will start making garbage excuses about Usyk being small and powerless and bla bla bla..

Precise Presenter boy. Another version of LDBC lunatics. Only from Eastern europe

What/who the fukc is LDBC ?

Lesbian, Dyslexic, Black, Cvntish ... something like that unless I'm confusing it with a similar acronym.

[Luis Fernando12]

So you appear to have finally accepted what so many have tried and failed to tell you that physical advantages are just one of a number of factors which can influence the outcome of a fight. I'm not going to argue with you about whether your size obsession was to the exclusion of all else or not. Posters will have formed their own opinion about that.

I just content myself with the fact that you have finally arrived at what the majority of us hold to be true and I rejoice, but if you revert to that shite about how size is the only thing that matters, I'm going to round up the lynch-mob.

You say Usyk beats Joshua whereas I say despite his skill advantage, he lacks the power to hurt AJ and anyone who cannot make AJ wary of their power is going to struggle to keep him off. I guess what I'm really saying is that Usyk is going to struggle with Joshua's size, strength, power, physicality ... In a word his size - ironic isn't it?

He says that only because fight is not made yet. When there will be a real fight. He will start making garbage excuses about Usyk being small and powerless and bla bla bla..

Precise Presenter boy. Another version of LDBC lunatics. Only from Eastern europe

Sure! If the fight is made when Usyk is close to 40, I absolutely wouldn't care to give a crap about that fight. When is any boxer competitive or successful past prime at age 40 at the elite level?

For the rest, proof or it didn't happen!

[Luis Fernando12]

At this point i also think that Usyk got better chance of beating Joshua than Povetkin. BUT i think that Povetkin got better chance of knocking out Joshua than Usyk.

Povetkin failed to KO low level boxers in his past 3 fights. Usyk can expose Joshua's suspect stamina and stop him. Something old Povetkin can't do.

[Luis Fernando12]

Before you said that Povetkin is a great skillful fighter but has no chances vs AJ only because hes much smaller now you said that he also got no skills advantage and is stylistically outmached

The fight between Povetkin and Joshua is happening in September in a months time. Ergo, I'm judging Povetkin by how he is right now at his current age. Povetkin's skill is dependent on his age (a young age) and at his current age, he has absolutely no skill advantage what so ever. Especially considering he his a very small, short, old and a come forward pressure fighter who has no youth in him and has been in so many tough fights previously that has resulted in him being more faded in terms of freshness and durability.

Skills =/= style. Povetkin's style is probably not even suitable to beat Joshua anyway to begin with. Even if Povetkin was younger. Even though Povetkin was more skilled at using his style when he was younger.

Whilst Usyk's style is more suitable for beating Anthony Joshua and I also genuinely believe he's literally on a totally different level, compared to Alexander Povetkin (or Anthony Joshua) in terms of overall boxing skills. Astronomically better / higher.

Povetkin against Joshua will be like a little old mouse (Povetkin) at an age where he is only a short time away from his death date, and has multiple battle scars from multiple previous fights, colliding head first against a young and a fresh T-Rex with practically no battle scars (Anthony Joshua). Do you seriously understand and realize how unfair this mismatch is between Povetkin and Joshua?

Whereas Usyk is like a young, fresh, fast, elusive and a healthy sabre tooth tiger fighting against a clumsy T-Rex. Using hitting and evading tactics to win.

Povetkin colliding head first against a much younger, bigger, stronger and fresher foe is suicide tactics / style.

In contrast, Usyk using hitting and evading tactics is literally the perfect tactic / style to use against Joshua.

So not only is Usyk astronomically and laughably more skilled than Povetkin, but he is also slightly bigger + has the more appropriate style to defeat Joshua.

[Luis Fernando12]

So you appear to have finally accepted what so many have tried and failed to tell you that physical advantages are just one of a number of factors which can influence the outcome of a fight. I'm not going to argue with you about whether your size obsession was to the exclusion of all else or not. Posters will have formed their own opinion about that.

I just content myself with the fact that you have finally arrived at what the majority of us hold to be true and I rejoice, but if you revert to that shite about how size is the only thing that matters, I'm going to round up the lynch-mob.

You say Usyk beats Joshua whereas I say despite his skill advantage, he lacks the power to hurt AJ and anyone who cannot make AJ wary of their power is going to struggle to keep him off. I guess what I'm really saying is that Usyk is going to struggle with Joshua's size, strength, power, physicality ... In a word his size - ironic isn't it?

I never claimed size is the only thing that matters. Not once have I said that! Rather, that size is the MOST IMPORTANT factor at heavyweight boxing. And that has been a rule in the heavyweight division for a long time.

However, there are exceptions to many rules and in here, Usyk is an exception to that rule. That doesn't mean size is all of a sudden, no longer the most important factor. But rather that Usyk is an extremely special boxer who is exempt from rules that apply to other small heavyweights.

You can believe Usyk lacks power to hurt AJ and I believe the reverse is also true. You can say anyone who struggles to hurt AJ is going to struggle to keep him off them and I say Usyk would still beat Joshua, because he has fought guys who he struggled to keep them off him but still beat them in the amateurs (where power is an even lesser factor) and in the WSB.

[ValMar]

He says that only because fight is not made yet. When there will be a real fight. He will start making garbage excuses about Usyk being small and powerless and bla bla bla..

Precise Presenter boy. Another version of LDBC lunatics. Only from Eastern europe

What/who the fukc is LDBC ?

Lesbian, Dyslexic, Black, Cvntish ... something like that unless I'm confusing it with a similar acronym.

Losers, Dupes, Bigots, Criminals...............

[Luis Fernando12]

So you appear to have finally accepted what so many have tried and failed to tell you that physical advantages are just one of a number of factors which can influence the outcome of a fight. I'm not going to argue with you about whether your size obsession was to the exclusion of all else or not. Posters will have formed their own opinion about that.

I just content myself with the fact that you have finally arrived at what the majority of us hold to be true and I rejoice, but if you revert to that shite about how size is the only thing that matters, I'm going to round up the lynch-mob.

You say Usyk beats Joshua whereas I say despite his skill advantage, he lacks the power to hurt AJ and anyone who cannot make AJ wary of their power is going to struggle to keep him off. I guess what I'm really saying is that Usyk is going to struggle with Joshua's size, strength, power, physicality ... In a word his size - ironic isn't it?

I pretty much agree. Of course Usyk is a special fighter. I knew that the first time i saw him, tho i'm still sad that he cut off his cossack hairdo. It gives you extra power - like me! If he were to fight Joshua now - or say if GGG was to fight Joshua now - well there could be the unfairness of grossly mixing weight classes. The smaller man could just run away all night and throw an occasional potshot - exactly like Haye did to Valuev. If the ref again doesnt insist on the smaller faster man engaging, well then...

Luis - Usyk is much smaller than Povetkin. He fights under 200. How successful he'll be if he bulks up i can't say. Maybe yes maybe no. It is very stupid to call Povetkin fat etc. I think that you are so used to looking at roided up athletes - like Joshua for instance - that a natural looking man and athlete looks "chubby" to you. Take a look at what athletes, and even bodybuilders, looked like before the steroid age.

Uysk is at least an inch taller than Povetkin with a 3 inch reach advantage. Usyk also carries less body fat than Povetkin. Usyk has already fought at heavyweight before against heavyweights the size of Joshua and I saw him performing brilliantly at a very high level then. No reason to suspect he'd perform any worse when he moves up to heavyweight in the pros.

Usyk won't really be bulking up much for heavyweight. He just won't need to lose weight to make the cruiser weight limit any longer. He is as much of a heavyweight as any heavyweight is. The reason for competing at cruiser weight is to make history by being successful in 2 divisions, rather than just one. But Usyk is already big enough for the heavyweight division physically in terms of his frame size.

Usyk also looks pretty natural to me. Doesn't look like he is on steroids. But he still appears to carry less body fat than Povetkin and also seems to be more barrel chested and appears to have a bigger frame than Povetkin. Which is reason why I think he is naturally bigger in size than Povetkin.

[candyslim]

Luis you don't need to go anywhere but this thread to see that your argument has been almost exclusively size related. All that T-Rex versus mouse stuff.

You can argue all day that this was just one of many points you made but I doubt anyone is going to be convinced.

Anyway, hopefully now we can move on.

[dagilechia]

Sorry im off

I drink a lot but im still too sober to read and discuss what you write, its all bullshit, sorry i almost never say so to someone but this time im just sure that what you say is a bullshit, its just too obvious bullshit to discuss it, im convinced.

Of course i meant Luis Fernandos posts

[Luis Fernando12]

I challenge any of you lot to find a single instance where / when I stated: size is the only thing that matters at heavyweight boxing. Otherwise, be prepared to drop this straw-man attack / position.

Except I've also mentioned non size related factors that causes this bout to be a mismatch such as age, wrong style, location of fight, mileage suffered and so forth so on. But yes, keep being intellectually dishonest with this straw-man position pretending as if ALL I mentioned was size.

[candyslim]

Sorry Luis but I couldn 't cope with more than skim-reading your posts first time around, I'm certainly not going to trawl through that lot just to prove my point.

Besides your asking us to prove a negative - what you didn't say. Surely it's easier if you quote what you did say. Then if anyone really cares they can count your posts and column inches and compare that to what you have quoted.

[ValMar]

Some observations regarding this topic :

-Povetlkin has decent/very decent : technique, chin, stamina, strength, hearth, punching power, but this is not enough to defeat Joshua.
-Usyk is a different kind of champion, and he is capable to outbox Joshua, and win by decision.
-Size is very important factor at HW, but not the only and decisive one.
-Strength and power are not the same, I suppose there is a very high correlation between them (it might be about 0,80).
-I have already mentioned Ward, maybe the better example is/was Valuev : extremely strong fighter, without an excellent punching power.
-I have a feeling that some posters here are not quite serious.

[Ilya Muromets]

Some observations regarding this topic :

-Povetlkin has decent/very decent : technique, chin, stamina, strength, hearth, punching power, but this is not enough to defeat Joshua.
-Usyk is a different kind of champion, and he is capable to outbox Joshua, and win by decision.
-Size is very important factor at HW, but not the only and decisive one.
-Strength and power are not the same, I suppose there is a very high correlation between them (it might be about 0,80).
-I have already mentioned Ward, maybe the better example is/was Valuev : extremely strong fighter, without an excellent punching power.
-I have a feeling that some posters here are not quite serious.

I think it is. Most others here think it isn't. But this is all idle chatter. Well find out soon enough who's right.

[candyslim]

Some observations regarding this topic :

-Povetlkin has decent/very decent : technique, chin, stamina, strength, hearth, punching power, but this is not enough to defeat Joshua.
-Usyk is a different kind of champion, and he is capable to outbox Joshua, and win by decision.
-Size is very important factor at HW, but not the only and decisive one.
-Strength and power are not the same, I suppose there is a very high correlation between them (it might be about 0,80).
-I have already mentioned Ward, maybe the better example is/was Valuev : extremely strong fighter, without an excellent punching power.
-I have a feeling that some posters here are not quite serious.

What's the big idea Valmar? You come on here talking sense and making intelligent comments. We've got other threads for that, this is not the place

[ValMar]

Some observations regarding this topic :

-Povetlkin has decent/very decent : technique, chin, stamina, strength, hearth, punching power, but this is not enough to defeat Joshua.
-Usyk is a different kind of champion, and he is capable to outbox Joshua, and win by decision.
-Size is very important factor at HW, but not the only and decisive one.
-Strength and power are not the same, I suppose there is a very high correlation between them (it might be about 0,80).
-I have already mentioned Ward, maybe the better example is/was Valuev : extremely strong fighter, without an excellent punching power.
-I have a feeling that some posters here are not quite serious.

What's the big idea Valmar? You come on here talking sense and making intelligent comments. We've got other threads for that, this is not the place

I agree, I was off topic, again. There is nothing more (important) to be said here. We might refresh this thread next month.

[Luis Fernando12]

Vitali? Who retired even before Stiverne became the champion of the world? You can't call that modern do you?

Yes! Both Kitschko brothers, Anthony Joshua, Tyson Fury and arguably Lennox Lewis too are all modern type SUPER HEAVYWEIGHTS who are athletic and know how to use their size advantages properly.

Tony Tucker and Tyrell Biggs are just as tall, difference is, those guys faced Mike Tyson in his prime and Lewis was smart enough to only face top contenders when they are way out of shape and stop boxing completely as soon as you realise many people out there are far better then you are, which is a weak thing to do in my opinion. It's the cowardish Wilder style, fight bums, have a big mouth, avoid risks and never fight a top contender in his prime and always act like you prefere to fight someone better, despite ducking even Whyte or AJ or name them.

But they still weren't modern super heavyweights like Vitali Klitschko, Lennox Lewis, Wladimir Klitschko, Anthony Joshua and Tyson Fury are.

Modern super heavyweights know how to use their size advantages properly!

[Luis Fernando12]

Candyslim, you made the positive claim that my position was purely in relation to size in terms of the ONLY factor that matters in deciding the outcome of a heavyweight boxing bout. Ergo, the onus is upon you to prove that I claimed such a thing. Otherwise, drop this straw man argument or expose yourself of being dishonest / a liar.

[candyslim]

How f#cking dare you you miserable pudendum. I have no intention of wading through pages of your verbal diarrhoea in an attempt to prove what is evident to anyone who has the stamina to read it. Not many of those I bet!

Your obsession with size is apparent to anyone and your protestations that it was just one part of your argument do not hold up. Even if you did touch on other factors the main thrust of your argument is very obvious.