BoxRec

Ezzard wrote: ↑15 Nov 2018, 07:23 Marciano isn't a HW in today's sport. This would be considered a mismatch. Rocky the better fighter but Wilder is very effective at what he does and it's more than enough here to see him win.

Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑15 Nov 2018, 12:00 There is no thought being put into this by some people, that is the problem. One guy weighs more is taller,has a longer reach etc., gee nothing more to see here.

Well hell yes there is. How good you are counts.
And again look at what has happened in real. In real life, when a great fighter under 200 takes on a really big heavyweight, he almost always won. Probably over 90% of the time.

You have to look at the negatives of being big as well. Not everyone is an expert in taking advantage of reach. Most tall fighters are not good inside fighters. Most big fighters don't have great stamina. Most big fighters have to fight at a slow pace. Well you can't fight at a slow pace against Marciano.
Most big guys are slow. Most big guys are not that difficult to hit.

Some guys could move up and some couldn't. Qawi was never a big puncher. He was washed up by the time he moved up to heavyweight any way. A lot of others smaller guys have done well against bigger fighters.
What if Marciano nailed Wilder with some good shots? It's not unreasonable to think he would eventually land some big shots. Are we really that confident that he has that great of a chin?

Btw-Wilder is closer in weight to Marciano than he is to Fury. He is closer in weight to Marciano than he is to some guys he has already beaten.

Controversial wrote: ↑15 Nov 2018, 11:50

Ezzard wrote: ↑15 Nov 2018, 07:23 Marciano isn't a HW in today's sport. This would be considered a mismatch. Rocky the better fighter but Wilder is very effective at what he does and it's more than enough here to see him win.

Yep, it’s a strange thing that all logic goes out the window when the old timers are discussed. A good big 16-18 stone man leaning on a 13-14 stone man, mailing, pushing him and punching him will have a big effect. I’ve mentioned his name before by Qawi was not too dissimilar to Marciano in size. Slightly shorter but a longer reach and slightly heavier and a far better technical fighter. Yet no one ever says Qawi would beat all the big HWs. The reason is because no matter how good a CW he was, he was too small for the HWs. Same for Marciano.

Ezzard wrote: ↑16 Nov 2018, 03:31 I think this is right. If it were possible for the LHWs listed to move up to HW and challenge Joshua or Wilder then they would. There's more money in the division.

What is interesting to me is where does this line between size and talent lie? Like Alp says how good you are counts. But at some point size is too much of a factor for talent to overcome.

Back in history you had giants who were not that good. They got where they did because of their size and not their talent. But then they got found out at the top levels. That still happens today. But you also have giants who are skilled.

Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑16 Nov 2018, 11:48 Unless you look at what Marciano could do and stop comparing him to today's cruiserweights. We have already given examples of recent light heavyweights and cruiserweight who did do well at heavyweight.
And we really don't know how good Wilder is because the heavyweight division has been so bad for so long.

At this point, Wilder, Fury, and Joshua have shown they are better than Gerrie Cooney. The only barometer we have with fury and Joshua is that beat an ancient Klitschko. (Wilder has not even done that.) And they both struggled. At least Cooney blew out the washed up guys he fought.

Cojimar 1946 wrote: ↑16 Nov 2018, 17:51 Also, how can we be sure that Marciano hit harder than todays cruiserweights who are generally bigger than the guys he was fighting. Why couldn't Gassiev or Glowacki be harder punchers than Marciano?

Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑16 Nov 2018, 15:05 None of the cruiserweight, and light heavyweights were nearly as hard of a puncher as Marciano. None were as tenacious.

The tape measures, and the scales don't help you when Marciano is pounding on you.

Moore and Walcott were not washed up when Marciano beat them.
You have to look the advantages that Marciano has, not just the disadvantages. Klitschko was not washed up when he fought Fury and Joshua? Glassjaw had to be pretty close.

Ezzard wrote: ↑17 Nov 2018, 12:02 I have every copy of The Ring from the 1950s to the 1990s in my loft. Every decade there is a report that laments the state of the HW division...that it was far better 20 years ago, There is even an article from the 1970s stating that Ali being the champ proved how poor the era was.

Ezzard wrote: ↑17 Nov 2018, 12:02 I have every copy of The Ring from the 1950s to the 1990s in my loft. Every decade there is a report that laments the state of the HW division...that it was far better 20 years ago, There is even an article from the 1970s stating that Ali being the champ proved how poor the era was.