BoxRec

I was trying to go off accomplishments hence chagaev but I think pulev could be in there too.

off accomplishments i'd rate josh ahead of wilder and vit, fury ahead of vit too

DrDuke wrote: ↑28 Mar 2019, 16:17 1. Lewis
2. Fury
3. Wlad
4. Vitali
5. Joshua

That is a much better list. You can't put the Klits in front of two guys that beat them.
Hell, Joshua beat Wlad.
But boxers can only be compared to their era and this week it's:
Fury
Joshua
and everybody else.

margaret thatcher wrote: ↑03 Dec 2020, 15:29 off accomplishments i'd rate josh ahead of wilder and vit, fury ahead of vit too

I dont diasgree with that i wasnt tying for a specific rating just saying here are top 6 and here are the rest


If you want a specific breakdown id put

Lennox
Fury
Wlad
Joshua
Wilder
Vitali

In that order

After that its a crapshoot

Enlightened-One wrote: ↑03 Dec 2020, 14:38

oogiebe wrote: ↑03 Dec 2020, 14:35

Enlightened-One wrote: ↑03 Dec 2020, 14:18
Do you still feel that Ajagba moves rather smoothly, has a remarkable defence, has freakish power, is formidable and is also today’s number one heavyweight prospect?

Once again (like last time you freaked out) I never said he had remarkable defence. Still think Dychko is top prospect? Dubs quit under intense heat and pressure. LMFAO! Dry your tears lad.

OK, let's agree to side-step that element of our discussion, since we disagree. And let me rephrase the question...

Do you still feel that Ajagba moves rather smoothly, has freakish power, is formidable and is also today’s number one heavyweight prospect?

Jury still out on Efe. Like other prospects, we'll know more when he fights next. He still shows signs of a good jab and athletic movement, but he hasn't been very consistent with it, in fact maybe has regressed. Others have come along since that post over a year ago, who show more promise. (Anderson for one). Efe showed in his last two fights that he hasn't progressed as much as maybe he should have. My post back then was a fair post. To go back and argue a post from 15 months ago or so with 20/20 hindsight is total bullshite, especially with a prospect. I answered amicably, let's see how you do. Still haven't answered my retort, rather wanting to side step it as it doesn't serve your purpose. Good luck.

Jeff_lacy_ko wrote: ↑03 Dec 2020, 16:06

margaret thatcher wrote: ↑03 Dec 2020, 15:29 off accomplishments i'd rate josh ahead of wilder and vit, fury ahead of vit too

I dont diasgree with that i wasnt tying for a specific rating just saying here are top 6 and here are the rest


If you want a specific breakdown id put

Lennox
Fury
Wlad
Joshua
Wilder
Vitali

In that order

After that its a crapshoot

Without giving it too much thought and not having read the rest of the thread, that looks pretty solid to me. Can't disagree with that.

snake33 wrote: ↑03 Dec 2020, 15:56

DrDuke wrote: ↑28 Mar 2019, 16:17 1. Lewis
2. Fury
3. Wlad
4. Vitali
5. Joshua

That is a much better list. You can't put the Klits in front of two guys that beat them.
Hell, Joshua beat Wlad.
But boxers can only be compared to their era and this week it's:
Fury
Joshua
and everybody else.

When you beat somebody at the tail end of their career it don't necessarily mean you're better than them.

By that logic Trevor Berbick is better than Muhammad Ali.

gilgamesh wrote: ↑03 Dec 2020, 18:03

snake33 wrote: ↑03 Dec 2020, 15:56

DrDuke wrote: ↑28 Mar 2019, 16:17 1. Lewis
2. Fury
3. Wlad
4. Vitali
5. Joshua

That is a much better list. You can't put the Klits in front of two guys that beat them.
Hell, Joshua beat Wlad.
But boxers can only be compared to their era and this week it's:
Fury
Joshua
and everybody else.

When you beat somebody at the tail end of their career it don't necessarily mean you're better than them.

By that logic Trevor Berbick is better than Muhammad Ali.

With Klitschko it's a different situation though. His credibility lasted for a longer period of time in comparison to Ali, because his career was far less tough. He hasn't shown any significant signs of decline before being dethroned.

DrDuke wrote: ↑03 Dec 2020, 18:08

gilgamesh wrote: ↑03 Dec 2020, 18:03

snake33 wrote: ↑03 Dec 2020, 15:56

That is a much better list. You can't put the Klits in front of two guys that beat them.
Hell, Joshua beat Wlad.
But boxers can only be compared to their era and this week it's:
Fury
Joshua
and everybody else.

When you beat somebody at the tail end of their career it don't necessarily mean you're better than them.

By that logic Trevor Berbick is better than Muhammad Ali.

With Klitschko it's a different situation though. His credibility lasted for a longer period of time in comparison to Ali, because his career was far less tough. He hasn't shown any significant signs of decline before being dethroned.

Yeah he most definitely had. Like being in the worst fight of all time with Tyson Fury and doing jack f*cking sh*t to defend his title.

If anything Wlad being as competitive with Joshua as he was at that age shows he almost certainly would've beaten him in his prime.

gilgamesh wrote: ↑03 Dec 2020, 18:10

DrDuke wrote: ↑03 Dec 2020, 18:08

gilgamesh wrote: ↑03 Dec 2020, 18:03

When you beat somebody at the tail end of their career it don't necessarily mean you're better than them.

By that logic Trevor Berbick is better than Muhammad Ali.

With Klitschko it's a different situation though. His credibility lasted for a longer period of time in comparison to Ali, because his career was far less tough. He hasn't shown any significant signs of decline before being dethroned.

Yeah he most definitely had. Like being in the worst fight of all time with Tyson Fury and doing jack f*cking sh*t to defend his title.

If anything Wlad being as competitive with Joshua as he was at that age shows he almost certainly would've beaten him in his prime.

I agree on the case with the Joshua bout. However, Joshua improved since then. He often was clueless and robotic before he lost to Ruiz. After that he became more fluid and smart. Anyway, he still have something to prove. I'd still rank Joshua lower than Wlad in this ranking. Fury is the best since Lewis.

DrDuke wrote: ↑03 Dec 2020, 18:20

gilgamesh wrote: ↑03 Dec 2020, 18:10

DrDuke wrote: ↑03 Dec 2020, 18:08

With Klitschko it's a different situation though. His credibility lasted for a longer period of time in comparison to Ali, because his career was far less tough. He hasn't shown any significant signs of decline before being dethroned.

Yeah he most definitely had. Like being in the worst fight of all time with Tyson Fury and doing jack f*cking sh*t to defend his title.

If anything Wlad being as competitive with Joshua as he was at that age shows he almost certainly would've beaten him in his prime.

I agree on the case with the Joshua bout. However, Joshua improved since then. He often was clueless and robotic before he lost to Ruiz. After that he became more fluid and smart. Anyway, he still have something to prove. I'd still rank Joshua lower than Wlad in this ranking. Fury is the best since Lewis.

The only person he's fought since losing to Ruiz is Ruiz. He fought Ruiz smarter. Don't know if that means he fights smarter in general.

gilgamesh wrote: ↑03 Dec 2020, 18:52

DrDuke wrote: ↑03 Dec 2020, 18:20

gilgamesh wrote: ↑03 Dec 2020, 18:10

Yeah he most definitely had. Like being in the worst fight of all time with Tyson Fury and doing jack f*cking sh*t to defend his title.

If anything Wlad being as competitive with Joshua as he was at that age shows he almost certainly would've beaten him in his prime.

I agree on the case with the Joshua bout. However, Joshua improved since then. He often was clueless and robotic before he lost to Ruiz. After that he became more fluid and smart. Anyway, he still have something to prove. I'd still rank Joshua lower than Wlad in this ranking. Fury is the best since Lewis.

The only person he's fought since losing to Ruiz is Ruiz. He fought Ruiz smarter. Don't know if that means he fights smarter in general.

I can't imagine it's very hard to fight smart against a 283 pound lardass.

Of course he fought smarter, didn't rush in over aggressively, avoiding making the same mistake that led to the first fight and won easily

but oh now he's finished! he's ruined! ruiz will bash him again

margaret thatcher wrote: ↑03 Dec 2020, 19:35 Of course he fought smarter, didn't rush in over aggressively, avoiding making the same mistake that led to the first fight and won easily

but oh now he's finished! he's ruined! ruiz will bash him again

oogiebe wrote: ↑03 Dec 2020, 16:26

Enlightened-One wrote: ↑03 Dec 2020, 14:38Do you still feel that Ajagba moves rather smoothly, has freakish power, is formidable and is also today’s number one heavyweight prospect?

Jury still out on Efe. Like other prospects, we'll know more when he fights next.

At this point in time, the Nigerian’s poor form has lasted more than 18 months, spanning four consecutive bouts.

And I'm fairly sure you even agreed with the popular perception of Ajagba's subpar performances.

oogiebe wrote: ↑03 Dec 2020, 16:26He still shows signs of a good jab and athletic movement, but he hasn't been very consistent with it, in fact maybe has regressed.

I'll agree that he's regressed, but it's premature to suggest Ajagba possesses a good jab and athletic movement at this point in time. because the calibre of opposition he's facing has been pretty dire.

Ajagba's most recent performance resulted in a decision victory over an opponent that was defeated during Tony Yoka's second outing as a pro.

Jonathan Rice was also stopped inside seven rounds by Arslanbek Makhmudov, with the novice Russian engaging in only his eighth pro fight.

In stark contrast, this was Ajagba's 14th bout as a pro. And he looked unimpressive when he failed to stop Jonathan Rice.

oogiebe wrote: ↑03 Dec 2020, 16:26Others have come along since that post over a year ago, who show more promise. (Anderson for one).

Agreed, but I'm no fan of Anderson... just yet.

oogiebe wrote: ↑03 Dec 2020, 16:26Efe showed in his last two fights that he hasn't progressed as much as maybe he should have.

You previously claimed that Ajagba had regressed, and I agreed with this opinion. The Nigerian hasn't progressed at all!

oogiebe wrote: ↑03 Dec 2020, 16:26My post back then was a fair post.

I previously expressed my opinion about Ajagba being overly-flawed. And provided a detailed list of stylistic issues that many people have subsequently commented on, by mentioning the very same issues.

However, you attacked my opinion without provocation. So you fired the first shot.

To be fair, I usually quite like it when people become excited over prospects, but not to the point they attack others for possessing opinions that differ from their own.

oogiebe wrote: ↑21 Sep 2020, 14:55To go back and argue a post from 15 months ago or so with 20/20 hindsight is total bullshite, especially with a prospect.

My original opinion about Ajagba has been proven to be correct. Others are saying the same things now that I previously mentioned a couple of years ago.

You attacked me without provocation. And you intervened in a discussion that had nothing whatsoever to do with you. So it's a tad juvenile to complain about me retaliating.

Treat others as you'd like to be treated, otherwise don't complain when someone returns fire.

oogiebe wrote: ↑03 Dec 2020, 16:26I answered amicably, let's see how you do. Still haven't answered my retort, rather wanting to side step it as it doesn't serve your purpose. Good luck.

You've asked the same question numerous times, and I've responded on multiple occasions.

Enlightened-One wrote: ↑21 Sep 2020, 17:10

oogiebe wrote: ↑20 Sep 2020, 18:53How's Ivan Dychko doing?

To be honest, I don’t know what he’s up to nowadays.

However, I suspect that whilst he’s having to endure a period of inactivity, he’s probably reminiscing about possessing an unblemished nine-fight professional record, capturing two silvers and one bronze in the world championships, as well as two bronze medals in the Olympics.

He might even be proud of competing in 199 amateur bouts, losing only 18 of them, as well as holding victories over the likes of Zhang Zhilei, Magomedrasul Majidov, Filip Hrgovic, Erislandy Savon and Efe Ajagba.

Here's another occasion:

Enlightened-One wrote: ↑12 Sep 2020, 17:53

oogiebe wrote: ↑12 Sep 2020, 13:39Who's Dychko fighting?

Agreed. Point taken and accepted.

But out of curiosity, you’re not being sincere when you say you consider Jonathon Rice as being a decent opponent?

I know we often argue, but even you know that Rice isn’t a good opponent for someone like Ajagba.

And another occasion:

Enlightened-One wrote: ↑14 Jul 2020, 05:22

oogiebe wrote: ↑13 Jul 2020, 13:41DYCHKO?!!

You’re absolutely right! It’s unfathomable to think that someone like Ivan Dychko could beat Efe Ajagba and win every single round in the process!

And another occassion:

Enlightened-One wrote: ↑28 Apr 2019, 20:05

oogiebe wrote: ↑28 Apr 2019, 19:46Ok let's go through this again. Dychko had a really decent amateur career. His inactivity doesn't do him much good now, does it?... Why hasn't he fought anyone close to Hrgovic's resume? Or Joyce? Efe hasn't because he's being taken slowly as his age allows and he is learning and improving. You think Yoka has kept his edge from his am days? What don't you understand? LMFAO!!!

You’re a huge fan of Efe Ajagba, but you seem to forget the fact the Nigerian has only seen fifteen minutes of action in the pro ranks, whilst Ivan Dychko has been inactive.

You have to apply your rules and standards consistently, otherwise you’ll lose credibility, especially when you’re unable to refute any of the facts I’ve listed.

How many times do you need me to keep answering questions about Dychko?

Enlightened-One wrote: ↑03 Dec 2020, 20:30

oogiebe wrote: ↑03 Dec 2020, 16:26

Enlightened-One wrote: ↑03 Dec 2020, 14:38Do you still feel that Ajagba moves rather smoothly, has freakish power, is formidable and is also today’s number one heavyweight prospect?

Jury still out on Efe. Like other prospects, we'll know more when he fights next.

At this point in time, the Nigerian’s poor form has lasted more than 18 months, spanning four consecutive bouts.

And I'm fairly sure you even agreed with the popular perception of Ajagba's subpar performances.

oogiebe wrote: ↑03 Dec 2020, 16:26He still shows signs of a good jab and athletic movement, but he hasn't been very consistent with it, in fact maybe has regressed.

I'll agree that he's regressed, but it's premature to suggest Ajagba possesses a good jab and athletic movement at this point in time. because the calibre of opposition he's facing has been pretty dire.

Ajagba's most recent performance resulted in a decision victory over an opponent that was defeated during Tony Yoka's second outing as a pro.

Jonathan Rice was also stopped inside seven rounds by Arslanbek Makhmudov, with the novice Russian engaging in only his eighth pro fight.

In stark contrast, this was Ajagba's 14th bout as a pro. And he looked unimpressive when he failed to stop Jonathan Rice.

oogiebe wrote: ↑03 Dec 2020, 16:26Others have come along since that post over a year ago, who show more promise. (Anderson for one).

Agreed, but I'm no fan of Anderson... just yet.

oogiebe wrote: ↑03 Dec 2020, 16:26Efe showed in his last two fights that he hasn't progressed as much as maybe he should have.

You previously claimed that Ajagba had regressed, and I agreed with this opinion. The Nigerian hasn't progressed at all!

oogiebe wrote: ↑03 Dec 2020, 16:26My post back then was a fair post.

I previously expressed my opinion about Ajagba being overly-flawed. And provided a detailed list of stylistic issues that many people have subsequently commented on, by mentioning the very same issues.

However, you attacked my opinion without provocation. So you fired the first shot.

To be fair, I usually quite like it when people become excited over prospects, but not to the point they attack others for possessing opinions that differ from their own.

oogiebe wrote: ↑21 Sep 2020, 14:55To go back and argue a post from 15 months ago or so with 20/20 hindsight is total bullshite, especially with a prospect.

My original opinion about Ajagba has been proven to be correct. Others are saying the same things now that I previously mentioned a couple of years ago.

You attacked me without provocation. And you intervened in a discussion that had nothing whatsoever to do with you. So it's a tad juvenile to complain about me retaliating.

Treat others as you'd like to be treated, otherwise don't complain when someone returns fire.

oogiebe wrote: ↑03 Dec 2020, 16:26I answered amicably, let's see how you do. Still haven't answered my retort, rather wanting to side step it as it doesn't serve your purpose. Good luck.

You've asked the same question numerous times, and I've responded on multiple occasions.

Enlightened-One wrote: ↑21 Sep 2020, 17:10

oogiebe wrote: ↑20 Sep 2020, 18:53How's Ivan Dychko doing?

To be honest, I don’t know what he’s up to nowadays.

However, I suspect that whilst he’s having to endure a period of inactivity, he’s probably reminiscing about possessing an unblemished nine-fight professional record, capturing two silvers and one bronze in the world championships, as well as two bronze medals in the Olympics.

He might even be proud of competing in 199 amateur bouts, losing only 18 of them, as well as holding victories over the likes of Zhang Zhilei, Magomedrasul Majidov, Filip Hrgovic, Erislandy Savon and Efe Ajagba.

Here's another occasion:

Enlightened-One wrote: ↑12 Sep 2020, 17:53

oogiebe wrote: ↑12 Sep 2020, 13:39Who's Dychko fighting?

Agreed. Point taken and accepted.

But out of curiosity, you’re not being sincere when you say you consider Jonathon Rice as being a decent opponent?

I know we often argue, but even you know that Rice isn’t a good opponent for someone like Ajagba.

And another occasion:

Enlightened-One wrote: ↑14 Jul 2020, 05:22

oogiebe wrote: ↑13 Jul 2020, 13:41DYCHKO?!!

You’re absolutely right! It’s unfathomable to think that someone like Ivan Dychko could beat Efe Ajagba and win every single round in the process!

And another occassion:

Enlightened-One wrote: ↑28 Apr 2019, 20:05

oogiebe wrote: ↑28 Apr 2019, 19:46Ok let's go through this again. Dychko had a really decent amateur career. His inactivity doesn't do him much good now, does it?... Why hasn't he fought anyone close to Hrgovic's resume? Or Joyce? Efe hasn't because he's being taken slowly as his age allows and he is learning and improving. You think Yoka has kept his edge from his am days? What don't you understand? LMFAO!!!

You’re a huge fan of Efe Ajagba, but you seem to forget the fact the Nigerian has only seen fifteen minutes of action in the pro ranks, whilst Ivan Dychko has been inactive.

You have to apply your rules and standards consistently, otherwise you’ll lose credibility, especially when you’re unable to refute any of the facts I’ve listed.

How many times do you need me to keep repeating myself?

Didn't read it. You take too long to make a point and your usually wrong. So, nevermind.

oogiebe wrote: ↑03 Dec 2020, 20:53Didn't read it. You take too long to make a point and your usually wrong. So, nevermind.

I answered every point you raised.

You can't undermine my response so you threw in the towel.

Thank you for conceding defeat!

Enlightened-One wrote: ↑03 Dec 2020, 20:56

oogiebe wrote: ↑03 Dec 2020, 20:53Didn't read it. You take too long to make a point and your usually wrong. So, nevermind.

I answered every point you raised.

You can't undermine my response so you threw in the towel.

That's better. You see? You can be a fragile buttercup with 1,000 words or 17. Bravo!

margaret thatcher wrote: ↑03 Dec 2020, 19:35 Of course he fought smarter, didn't rush in over aggressively, avoiding making the same mistake that led to the first fight and won easily

but oh now he's finished! he's ruined! ruiz will bash him again

Fighting smarter against Ruiz in the rematch doesn't necessarily mean he'd be smarter in general though. For instance if he approaches all of his opponents cautiously from here on out, I don't think that's necessarily smart. You gotta approach each opponent differently.

Now of course he may well have learned a lot from that fight, and may fight smarter in all of his fights going forward. Only time will tell.

gilgamesh wrote: ↑03 Dec 2020, 18:10

DrDuke wrote: ↑03 Dec 2020, 18:08

gilgamesh wrote: ↑03 Dec 2020, 18:03

When you beat somebody at the tail end of their career it don't necessarily mean you're better than them.

By that logic Trevor Berbick is better than Muhammad Ali.

With Klitschko it's a different situation though. His credibility lasted for a longer period of time in comparison to Ali, because his career was far less tough. He hasn't shown any significant signs of decline before being dethroned.

Yeah he most definitely had. Like being in the worst fight of all time with Tyson Fury and doing jack f*cking sh*t to defend his title.

If anything Wlad being as competitive with Joshua as he was at that age shows he almost certainly would've beaten him in his prime.

Why does everyone over rate the Klits. Wlad was finished with back to back loses earlier in his career and went into a defensive shell with a side of holding and beat a lot of mid level guys. Lewis would have knocked him into next week.
And Fury beat Wlad because he was too slick for him. Wlad couldn't tie him up. No punch and grab, no win.

snake33 wrote: ↑04 Dec 2020, 00:09

gilgamesh wrote: ↑03 Dec 2020, 18:10

DrDuke wrote: ↑03 Dec 2020, 18:08

With Klitschko it's a different situation though. His credibility lasted for a longer period of time in comparison to Ali, because his career was far less tough. He hasn't shown any significant signs of decline before being dethroned.

Yeah he most definitely had. Like being in the worst fight of all time with Tyson Fury and doing jack f*cking sh*t to defend his title.

If anything Wlad being as competitive with Joshua as he was at that age shows he almost certainly would've beaten him in his prime.

Why does everyone over rate the Klits. Wlad was finished with back to back loses earlier in his career and went into a defensive shell with a side of holding and beat a lot of mid level guys. Lewis would have knocked him into next week.
And Fury beat Wlad because he was too slick for him. Wlad couldn't tie him up. No punch and grab, no win.

A lot of people overrate Vitali. Wlad is rated fairly for the most part.

snake33 wrote: ↑04 Dec 2020, 00:09 Why does everyone over rate the Klits.

You simply lack knowledge!

Wladimir's resume:

• Wladimir Klitschko is a dead-cert first ballot 'Hall-of-Famer', and will almost certainly be inducted into the IBHoF during 2021

• Competed in 29 world title fights, winning 25 of them

• Captured the WBA Super, IBF, WBO, IBO & Ring world titles

• A two-time world heavyweight champion

• Has competed against fourteen unbeaten fighters, with nine of them being world title opposition

• Assuming the Ukraine and Germany are classed as his “home” countries, eighteen of his bouts have taken place on foreign soil, including countries such as: USA, Russia, Switzerland, Hungary, United Kingdom, Austria etc.

• 83% of his victories have come by way of knockout

• He is the longest-combined reigning heavyweight champion of all-time

• Has faced sixteen current/former world champion

• He is the 1996 super-heavyweight Olympic gold medallist

• Has overcome adversity multiple times throughout his career and also learned from his defeats to become a vastly improved fighter

• Lost only six of the 140 amateur bouts he competed in

Vitali's resume:

• Vitali Klitschko is a 'Hall-of-Famer', inducted into the IBHoF in 2018.

• Over the course of thirteen years, Vitali Klitschko engaged in seventeen world title fights, facing nine former world champions, despite being inactive for a four-year period during that timeframe.

• ‘Dr. Ironfist’ is a three-time world heavyweight champion and was rated amongst The RING’s top-ten heavyweight annual rankings nine times between the years 1999 to 2012. The only reason for him not being rated for four of those years was due to his temporary retirement.

• Vitali managed to reclaim his WBC world heavyweight title back from The RING’s second-highest ranked heavyweight fighter, Samuel Peter, without even bothering with a warm-up fight, despite being inactive for four years beforehand, due to retirement.

• Over the course of his 15½ year career in the pro ranks, Vitali scored 41 knockouts in the 47 bouts he competed in, with 91% of his victories coming by way of KO, the highest percentage of any former world heavyweight champion.

• His only losses were due to having suffered injuries. And he was even leading on all three official judges’ scorecards at the time both fights were stopped.

• Only Wladimir Klitschko, Joe Louis, Muhammad Ali and Larry Holmes have achieved more victories whilst competing in world heavyweight title fights.

• Won 195 of 210 amateur bouts.

There haven't been many good Heavyweights in the last 20 years, so yes!
Lewis, the Klitschkos & the current crop is the most noteworthy fighters..

1. Lewis
2. Wlad
3. Vitali
4. Fury
5. AJ
6. Wilder
7. Briggs
8. Haye
9. Sanders
10. Ortiz

Post 4 Post wrote: ↑04 Dec 2020, 01:59 There haven't been many good Heavyweights in the last 20 years, so yes!
Lewis, the Klitschkos & the current crop is the most noteworthy fighters..

1. Lewis
2. Wlad
3. Vitali
4. Fury
5. AJ
6. Wilder
7. Briggs
8. Haye
9. Sanders
10. Ortiz

Briggs and Ortiz have never won a single world title fight since January 2000.

And Sanders only won one world championship fight, which was considered (at the time) an inferior title.

Byrd should be in there, beat Tua, Vitali, Holyfield, Golota, McCline, Oquendo. Some in questionable decisions but easily enough overall to be ahead of guys like Ortiz