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Re: Round-by-Round: Zhilei Zhang vs. Joe Joyce II | TNT Sports - 23 September 2023
Posted: 23 Sep 2023, 18:48
by Shirow
Neil Gee wrote: ↑23 Sep 2023, 18:08
coneye wrote: ↑23 Sep 2023, 17:59
Neil Gee wrote: ↑23 Sep 2023, 17:55
Zhang has just blown his best round n the last fight. No way is he going to win the rematch.
Not so sure about that one , Joe really is'nt looking too good rnd 2
I wasn't expecting that. I did think if JJ got through R3 it would start to turn in his favour because Chinaman had obvious stamina issues in the last fight. I didn't think Zhang would have the power to move Joyce even if he did land cleanly, how wrong can you be?
The thing is that JJ didn't make ZZ pay for his stamina issues. He dropped his pace to a level much more comfortable for Zhang. After moving to the left and keeping his right hand up he should have learned that his workrate could make up for the skills deficit.
I expected him to come out like William Zepeda just with his hands high, not give him room to breathe and wear him out in 4 or 5 rounds then turn it into a beatdown. Becoming a defensive, counter punching technician in 5 months was never likely to be successful.
Re: Round-by-Round: Zhilei Zhang vs. Joe Joyce II | TNT Sports - 23 September 2023
Posted: 23 Sep 2023, 18:49
by tiny_acres
big lennox wrote: ↑23 Sep 2023, 18:43
jwfg wrote: ↑23 Sep 2023, 18:31
Frostieballs wrote: ↑23 Sep 2023, 18:27
Fury isn’t going to want that smoke.
Zero chance of Fury fighting him. Fwank had the perfect chance to hype that in the post fight interview and didn't mention it once.
Zhang said 330m watched him in the first Joyce fight and he was anticipating way more than that this time round.
Fury, who loves the increased popularity the Netflix series ans the Ngannou mismatch is bringing, should try and capitalise on the huge Chinese Market, if he can't face taking on Uysk for undisputed. I'd be surprised if Fury went anywhere near Zhang, though. I think he falls into the Uysk and AJ camp of being too risky.
Could you imagine how many views Fury vs Zhang would do?
Too bad Fury would not come within 100 miles of Zhang
Re: Round-by-Round: Zhilei Zhang vs. Joe Joyce II | TNT Sports - 23 September 2023
Posted: 23 Sep 2023, 18:50
by jamesmcdonnell
Kilburn wrote: ↑23 Sep 2023, 18:37
You do wonder what will happen with Zhang, I suspect the only guy with the bottle to take him on after that would be Usyk, who would outbox him.
You'd have to give zhang a pretty decent chance. He's a pretty fluid guy and he sure can punch. OK, not Fleet of foot, but quick hands
Re: Round-by-Round: Zhilei Zhang vs. Joe Joyce II | TNT Sports - 23 September 2023
Posted: 23 Sep 2023, 18:50
by jamesmcdonnell
jwfg wrote: ↑23 Sep 2023, 18:47
jamesmcdonnell wrote: ↑23 Sep 2023, 18:44
Bet David Price feels a little bit better now.
Why? Because Fury ducked him as well?
Because a rematch ruined his career
Re: Round-by-Round: Zhilei Zhang vs. Joe Joyce II | TNT Sports - 23 September 2023
Posted: 23 Sep 2023, 18:51
by Rob3_142
Sadly Joe came into the fight with the first encounter firmly in his mind. I had money on Joyce to come though on a late decision (sort of based on the principle that Joshua came through on the Ruiz rematch), but alas, this was actually more a case of Bellew v Haye II.
For me Joshua and Wilder are established second tier fighters, although still provide big pay days. Personally, there's nothing in it for Joshua and Wilder other than another loss on their card.
As for Fury and Usyk, i think they're prepared for most battles (still bothers me they couldn't agree to meet in the ring) and could see it happening. I think they have too much skill for Zhang, but would still love to see it.
I imagine that we won't see Zhang too many times over the next 18 months, at least nothing meaningful, but I really hope I'm wrong.
Re: Round-by-Round: Zhilei Zhang vs. Joe Joyce II | TNT Sports - 23 September 2023
Posted: 23 Sep 2023, 18:52
by Grilling Machine
Kilburn wrote: ↑23 Sep 2023, 18:42I think Joyce was planning to have a quiet first half and then put the pressure on. But you're not going to reduce the threat without making Zhang work to some extent.
Zhang was cruising it.
Perfect catch-22. I felt the same about Joyce looking to go evens on the first half.
Zhang-Fury won't happen. Usyk might take it for this generation's Holyfield-Bowe.
Re: Round-by-Round: Zhilei Zhang vs. Joe Joyce II | TNT Sports - 23 September 2023
Posted: 23 Sep 2023, 18:55
by Kilburn
jamesmcdonnell wrote: ↑23 Sep 2023, 18:50
Kilburn wrote: ↑23 Sep 2023, 18:37
You do wonder what will happen with Zhang, I suspect the only guy with the bottle to take him on after that would be Usyk, who would outbox him.
You'd have to give zhang a pretty decent chance. He's a pretty fluid guy and he sure can punch. OK, not Fleet of foot, but quick hands
True, I just don't think Zhang would be anything like as effective against such a difficult target.
Re: Round-by-Round: Zhilei Zhang vs. Joe Joyce II | TNT Sports - 23 September 2023
Posted: 23 Sep 2023, 18:57
by MasterG
Ruthless-RKO wrote: ↑23 Sep 2023, 18:12
Good to see the Chinese fans out
Yes it was. My grandson bagged a Chinese flag from the Zhang anterage
Re: Round-by-Round: Zhilei Zhang vs. Joe Joyce II | TNT Sports - 23 September 2023
Posted: 23 Sep 2023, 18:58
by Powellm
Will coaches and pundits stop telling lads just move your lead foot outside and you’ll beat a southpaw.
Yes you line up your rear hand with their centreline but you square up your chin to his hook and can’t turn your shoulder to block it anymore so you better have kept your guard up.
Just moving unthinkingly to the outside every time like Joyce was isn’t good tactics. Just makes you predictable and easy to line up counter hook.
Re: Round-by-Round: Zhilei Zhang vs. Joe Joyce II | TNT Sports - 23 September 2023
Posted: 23 Sep 2023, 18:58
by Grilling Machine
Usyk has to dart in and out because of his reach, and Zhang has good enough timing to make that daunting for several rounds. It's a dangerous fight for him. He can't be too negative waiting for Zhang to tire.
Re: Round-by-Round: Zhilei Zhang vs. Joe Joyce II | TNT Sports - 23 September 2023
Posted: 23 Sep 2023, 18:59
by MasterG
Zhang is a victim of his own success, at 40 time isn't on his side so unless one of the governing bodies orders a fight next Zhang will be sat out permanently. He will knock out out AJ and beat Fury. No one will touch him unless ordered to do so
Re: Round-by-Round: Zhilei Zhang vs. Joe Joyce II | TNT Sports - 23 September 2023
Posted: 23 Sep 2023, 19:00
by jwfg
jamesmcdonnell wrote: ↑23 Sep 2023, 18:50
jwfg wrote: ↑23 Sep 2023, 18:47
jamesmcdonnell wrote: ↑23 Sep 2023, 18:44
Bet David Price feels a little bit better now.
Why? Because Fury ducked him as well?
Because a rematch ruined his career
I would argue that the matchmaking of the first fight ruined his career. Price went from British level to fighting a legit contender in one move. Madness.
Re: Round-by-Round: Zhilei Zhang vs. Joe Joyce II | TNT Sports - 23 September 2023
Posted: 23 Sep 2023, 19:00
by TheLeprechaun
Zhang beats AJ. I'd take him over Fury. As for the fight tonight, Joyce looked scared and fought scared. It ended up being a total mismatch. Zhang is a problem. Shame he turned over late.
Re: Round-by-Round: Zhilei Zhang vs. Joe Joyce II | TNT Sports - 23 September 2023
Posted: 23 Sep 2023, 19:01
by TheLeprechaun
MasterG wrote: ↑23 Sep 2023, 18:59
Zhang is a victim of his own success, at 40 time isn't on his side so unless one of the governing bodies orders a fight next Zhang will be sat out permanently. He will knock out out AJ and beat Fury. No one will touch him unless ordered to do so
As Ian Darke used to say, he's a card carrying member of the Who-Needs-Him club.
Re: Round-by-Round: Zhilei Zhang vs. Joe Joyce II | TNT Sports - 23 September 2023
Posted: 23 Sep 2023, 19:08
by gregregegg
Joyce should probably retire, but styles make fights, if he continues he should fight no more big powerful southpaws.
People shouldn’t get too carried away with zhange, jerry Forrest near killed him 2 years ago…. But he is a handful so I’d love to see him on with the big dawgs. Once again styles make fights.
Re: Round-by-Round: Zhilei Zhang vs. Joe Joyce II | TNT Sports - 23 September 2023
Posted: 23 Sep 2023, 19:12
by TempleSlave
TheLeprechaun wrote: ↑23 Sep 2023, 19:00
Zhang beats AJ. I'd take him over Fury. As for the fight tonight, Joyce looked scared and fought scared. It ended up being a total mismatch. Zhang is a problem. Shame he turned over late.
Must love like every time something like this happens everyone and their uncle jumps on bandwagon. Last time it was JJ who was meant to be the next big thing and easily beat everyone, AJ, Wilder and Fury included
Zhang looked solid, no doubt but ask yourself a question what are his credentials at this stage?
Re: Round-by-Round: Zhilei Zhang vs. Joe Joyce II | TNT Sports - 23 September 2023
Posted: 23 Sep 2023, 19:12
by leejonesjnr
WELL…
I imagine that Joyce will call it a day now, though there are fights for him if he wants them, a Dubois rematch seems likely first choice for all involved.
As most are aware Fury won’t want to be in the same arena as ZZ let alone the same ring.
Joshua would be stopped if allowed to take it, I think he would take the fight but those around him would be sensible enough to stop it happening.
Wilder would take the fight, who knows what would happen there, you’d have to make ZZ favourite I think.
Bizarrely whilst most of the up and comers are too small to make it competitive, I’d say Usyk is the only boxer that would be a definite favourite to beat ZZ after tonight.
Which mandatory is due next? IBF or WBO?
Re: Round-by-Round: Zhilei Zhang vs. Joe Joyce II | TNT Sports - 23 September 2023
Posted: 23 Sep 2023, 19:15
by Steveh583
if fury employed the davidson tactics of old for the first 5 rounds (if he still could, which is a big if), I think he'd do the biz.
Re: Round-by-Round: Zhilei Zhang vs. Joe Joyce II | TNT Sports - 23 September 2023
Posted: 23 Sep 2023, 19:20
by leejonesjnr
Steveh583 wrote: ↑23 Sep 2023, 19:15
if fury employed the davidson tactics of old for the first 5 rounds (if he still could, which is a big if), I think he'd do the biz.
Jim Davidson? What, tell some racist jokes and and shout ‘cancel culture’ over and over?
Re: Round-by-Round: Zhilei Zhang vs. Joe Joyce II | TNT Sports - 23 September 2023
Posted: 23 Sep 2023, 19:27
by coneye
Its easy for us armchair critics after the fact , but thinking about it well non of us knew what tactics Joyce wa going to apply till after the bell , BUT it makes me wonder , why in the hell , would he come in heavy and then try to outbox someone with faster hands , and a natural southpaw .. It seems to me Joyce spent the last 5 months practicing getting his lead foot on the outside has if thats a magical formula , and he got Ko'd WITH A LEFT HOOK , thats just tex book southpaw . .
Facts are when a big ponderous fella with slow hands and slow feet , puts on weight to try outbox someone who has already outboxed and stopped him WHY , Zang has faster hands , Joe found the range for him , why oh why did'nt Joe put weight on and then take it up to him , drag him into a brawl and try to take advantage of his stamina issues he's had in the past , It would of been easier to train for , walking someone down with a double cover is easier than trying to develop fast feet and smoothness when your already slow and cumbersome ,
I know its easy after the fact , but i just can't help wonder why or how some of these trainers get the job , its there job too know this
Re: Round-by-Round: Zhilei Zhang vs. Joe Joyce II | TNT Sports - 23 September 2023
Posted: 23 Sep 2023, 19:29
by Blueprint
Bad match making by Joe Joyce team. All he had to do was wait for his title shot.
Re: Round-by-Round: Zhilei Zhang vs. Joe Joyce II | TNT Sports - 23 September 2023
Posted: 23 Sep 2023, 19:30
by leejonesjnr
coneye wrote: ↑23 Sep 2023, 19:27
Its easy for us armchair critics after the fact , but thinking about it well non of us knew what tactics Joyce wa going to apply till after the bell , BUT it makes me wonder , why in the hell , would he come in heavy and then try to outbox someone with faster hands , and a natural southpaw .. It seems to me Joyce spent the last 5 months practicing getting his lead foot on the outside has if thats a magical formula , and he got Ko'd WITH A LEFT HOOK , thats just tex book southpaw . .
Facts are when a big ponderous fella with slow hands and slow feet , puts on weight to try outbox someone who has already outboxed and stopped him WHY , Zang has faster hands , Joe found the range for him , why oh why did'nt Joe put weight on and then take it up to him , drag him into a brawl and try to take advantage of his stamina issues he's had in the past , It would of been easier to train for , walking someone down with a double cover is easier than trying to develop fast feet and smoothness when your already slow and cumbersome ,
I know its easy after the fact , but i just can't help wonder why or how some of these trainers get the job , its there job too know this
It was a right hook.
You think Salas is a bad trainer?
Re: Round-by-Round: Zhilei Zhang vs. Joe Joyce II | TNT Sports - 23 September 2023
Posted: 23 Sep 2023, 19:41
by coneye
leejonesjnr wrote: ↑23 Sep 2023, 19:30
coneye wrote: ↑23 Sep 2023, 19:27
Its easy for us armchair critics after the fact , but thinking about it well non of us knew what tactics Joyce wa going to apply till after the bell , BUT it makes me wonder , why in the hell , would he come in heavy and then try to outbox someone with faster hands , and a natural southpaw .. It seems to me Joyce spent the last 5 months practicing getting his lead foot on the outside has if thats a magical formula , and he got Ko'd WITH A RIGHT HOOK , thats just tex book southpaw . .
Facts are when a big ponderous fella with slow hands and slow feet , puts on weight to try outbox someone who has already outboxed and stopped him WHY , Zang has faster hands , Joe found the range for him , why oh why did'nt Joe put weight on and then take it up to him , drag him into a brawl and try to take advantage of his stamina issues he's had in the past , It would of been easier to train for , walking someone down with a double cover is easier than trying to develop fast feet and smoothness when your already slow and cumbersome ,
I know its easy after the fact , but i just can't help wonder why or how some of these trainers get the job , its there job too know this
It was a right hook.
You think Salas is a bad trainer?
Sorry your correct , right hook it was , but like i said tex book southpaw ,, Salas a bad trainer No i don't think he's a bad trainer , but i do think he got it wrong , just getting the lead foot on the outside was never going to be a magical solution , but putting weight ON and slowing down was just adding fuel to the fire , and these guys are paid to know better , so bad trainer NO i don't think so , after all he did change Joe , Got it wrong YES , i think theres a difference between actually training and knowing the corner work
Re: Round-by-Round: Zhilei Zhang vs. Joe Joyce II | TNT Sports - 23 September 2023
Posted: 23 Sep 2023, 19:52
by jwfg
Frank won't let DDD anywhere near ZZ
Re: Round-by-Round: Zhilei Zhang vs. Joe Joyce II | TNT Sports - 23 September 2023
Posted: 23 Sep 2023, 19:54
by gregregegg
Good trainer but to me wrong tactics.
Needed to sap as much energy from zhang without being in punching range. joyce dosent have crazy movment so the only way to do that is wrestle a bit, no atempt made there. should of been octapus okolie for a few rounds. cop the boos, cop the warnings, cop a point, just get zhang tired asap.